It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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towny
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:55 am This is some Grade 1 trolling by Clogs. Australia's economy reduced by less than Sweden's in the June quarter (7% drop compared to 8.3% drop) and their death rate is 16 times higher than our's. So their lax restrictions resulted in a weaker economy and 16 times more deaths.
Sweden’s economy is more vulnerable to international shocks than Australia’s believe it or not. Australia exports rocks - Brazil’s iron ore industry is in tatters, which means Australia has a virtual monopoly. Buying gas isn’t very variable so the biggest exports are cruising. Most Australians are insulated. Meanwhile Sweden exports advanced machinery - orders of which is the first thing that’s cut. Sweden’s integration with Europe is 100 times tighter than Australia’s with anyone, so closing the borders has a huge effect.

The comparison you’re putting forward is comparing apples with fighter jets. It’s simply not relevant.
bimboman
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

Sweden posted a fiscal surplus in a August.
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eldanielfire
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by eldanielfire »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:52 am
eldanielfire wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:45 am In terms of trolling it's been mentioned that the integrated nature and close proximity of Europe means death rates with all the same actions would be a higher death rate anyway. I don't think a geographical piece of good fortune is something to be celebrated or boast about here or used as some sort of measure of policy success.
So what's the point of starting a thread like this if no-one from outside Europe can post on it?

Moreover, Melbourne has had a genuine 2nd wave. It was recording 700+ new cases per day just months ago. That's down to 14 cases today, thanks only to extremely onerous restrictions that the state govt put in place - not the "geographical piece of good fortune" that you arrogantly and condescendingly refer to.
It's not about who can post, but what you are tolling with. And yes even the 700+ cases wasn't more or ongoing, due to geographical isolation.
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Muttonbirds
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Muttonbirds »

I can see Sweden becoming a dark tourism destination for right-wing pandemic deniers. They got a surplus in August don't you know.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Ali's Choice »

eldanielfire wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:48 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:52 am
eldanielfire wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:45 am In terms of trolling it's been mentioned that the integrated nature and close proximity of Europe means death rates with all the same actions would be a higher death rate anyway. I don't think a geographical piece of good fortune is something to be celebrated or boast about here or used as some sort of measure of policy success.
So what's the point of starting a thread like this if no-one from outside Europe can post on it?

Moreover, Melbourne has had a genuine 2nd wave. It was recording 700+ new cases per day just months ago. That's down to 14 cases today, thanks only to extremely onerous restrictions that the state govt put in place - not the "geographical piece of good fortune" that you arrogantly and condescendingly refer to.
It's not about who can post, but what you are tolling with. And yes even the 700+ cases wasn't more or ongoing, due to geographical isolation.
I wasn't trolling at all. I simply made a comparison of the health and economic outcomes between Australia and Sweden for the June financial quarter in response to a thread about Sweden's handling of COVID-19.
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Clogs
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

towny wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:27 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:55 am This is some Grade 1 trolling by Clogs. Australia's economy reduced by less than Sweden's in the June quarter (7% drop compared to 8.3% drop) and their death rate is 16 times higher than our's. So their lax restrictions resulted in a weaker economy and 16 times more deaths.
Sweden’s economy is more vulnerable to international shocks than Australia’s believe it or not. Australia exports rocks - Brazil’s iron ore industry is in tatters, which means Australia has a virtual monopoly. Buying gas isn’t very variable so the biggest exports are cruising. Most Australians are insulated. Meanwhile Sweden exports advanced machinery - orders of which is the first thing that’s cut. Sweden’s integration with Europe is 100 times tighter than Australia’s with anyone, so closing the borders has a huge effect.

The comparison you’re putting forward is comparing apples with fighter jets. It’s simply not relevant.
Everyone knows this, but it won't stop him and his 'special' type of trolling. He will keep flailing away with nonsense pretending its all innocuous until someone nibbles. Then he gets his jollies by shrieking and insulting...
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Ali's Choice
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Ali's Choice »

Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:14 am Everyone knows this, but it won't stop him and his 'special' type of trolling. He will keep flailing away until someone nibbles. Then he gets his jollies...
This is your troll thread mate. You are the poster who since day 1 has demanded no lockdowns, no restrictions and no face masks. You're the one who was prepared to sacrifice the elderly for the sake of the economy. Frankly I'm not sure why you are acting so butt-hurt, this thread was designed solely and wholly to attract attention from posters like me.
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Clogs
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:14 am Everyone knows this, but it won't stop him and his 'special' type of trolling. He will keep flailing away until someone nibbles. Then he gets his jollies...
This is your troll thread mate. You are the poster who since day 1 has demanded no lockdowns, no restrictions and no face masks. You're the one who was prepared to sacrifice the elderly for the sake of the economy. Frankly I'm not sure why you are acting so butt-hurt, this thread was designed solely and wholly to attract attention from posters like me.
Look champ, you have been flailing away with your old style trolling schtick that everyone now sees through, and many on this thread have now called you on. It will probably be best for you to slink away for a while, lick your wounds and return with a different approach to your trolling. Not even Bimbo is falling for your schtick anymore.

Also is your 'butt hurt' comment some sort of homophobic slur? I am not sure what your point is with that derogatory comment? Or why you feel compelled to say something like that?
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Ali's Choice
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Ali's Choice »

Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:54 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:14 am Everyone knows this, but it won't stop him and his 'special' type of trolling. He will keep flailing away until someone nibbles. Then he gets his jollies...
This is your troll thread mate. You are the poster who since day 1 has demanded no lockdowns, no restrictions and no face masks. You're the one who was prepared to sacrifice the elderly for the sake of the economy. Frankly I'm not sure why you are acting so butt-hurt, this thread was designed solely and wholly to attract attention from posters like me.
Look champ, you have been flailing away with your old style trolling schtick that everyone now sees through, and many on this thread have now called you on. It will probably be best for you to slink away for a while, lick your wounds and return with a different approach to your trolling. Not even Bimbo is falling for your schtick anymore.

Also is your 'butt hurt' comment some sort of homophobic slur? I am not sure what your point is with that derogatory comment? Or why you feel compelled to say something like that?

"Everyone now sees through"? So not only are you a troll, but you now talk for everyone on this forum?

Anyway, I am happy to leave you and your Sweden is best/pro herd immunity troll thread alone.
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Clogs
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:54 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:14 am Everyone knows this, but it won't stop him and his 'special' type of trolling. He will keep flailing away until someone nibbles. Then he gets his jollies...
This is your troll thread mate. You are the poster who since day 1 has demanded no lockdowns, no restrictions and no face masks. You're the one who was prepared to sacrifice the elderly for the sake of the economy. Frankly I'm not sure why you are acting so butt-hurt, this thread was designed solely and wholly to attract attention from posters like me.
Look champ, you have been flailing away with your old style trolling schtick that everyone now sees through, and many on this thread have now called you on. It will probably be best for you to slink away for a while, lick your wounds and return with a different approach to your trolling. Not even Bimbo is falling for your schtick anymore.

Also is your 'butt hurt' comment some sort of homophobic slur? I am not sure what your point is with that derogatory comment? Or why you feel compelled to say something like that?

"Everyone now sees through"? So not only are you a troll, but you now talk for everyone on this forum?

Anyway, I am happy to leave you and your Sweden is best/pro herd immunity troll thread alone.

So no comment on your 'butt hurt' slur? Let me guess, you aren't homophobic and some of your best friends could even be gay?
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Muttonbirds
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Muttonbirds »

AC is right. Read the thread title and you know this is a troll thread. It's obvious.
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Clogs
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

And the 2020 Sycophant of the Year Award goes too.....




I haven't got the energy to find a facepalm image. But I feel it would be quite relevant round about now. There are some remarkable Sherlock Holmes types hammering away at their keyboards on here boldly declaring that this thread title is a troll and they deserve some recognition for their remarkable findings.

I have news for you champs. It is obviously a pisstake/troll thread title based on the newspaper article in the opening post. It is quite a common tactic on this here forum. If you feel the need to have to declare it, just in case you think others aren't aware of this, then you really should take a break from the internet. For your own good.

This was the 8th post in on the first page for fvcks sake.
Clogs wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:26 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:22 am
bimboman wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:45 am This cannot be true, posters have confirmed Swedish Scientists and authority’s have done a massive Mea Culpa and wish they were really Danish.
Whether you are pro or against the Swedish model the final outcomes on what actions constitutes a success in this pandemic is still a long way off.
Agreed. We are still very early on in this marathon. I just found it a little odd that Sweden seem to have gone the early crow. Being PR it was too good an opportunity to not post it here...
Last edited by Clogs on Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:17 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:14 am Everyone knows this, but it won't stop him and his 'special' type of trolling. He will keep flailing away until someone nibbles. Then he gets his jollies...
This is your troll thread mate. You are the poster who since day 1 has demanded no lockdowns, no restrictions and no face masks. You're the one who was prepared to sacrifice the elderly for the sake of the economy. Frankly I'm not sure why you are acting so butt-hurt, this thread was designed solely and wholly to attract attention from posters like me.
Well, actually there's a slew of scientific studies coming out, two which I've cited (and I could cite more if you like) that say hard lock downs are ineffective. It is also undeniable that Sweden's re-infection rate is much smaller than the rest of Europe which suggests some kind of community immunity.

The original article was junk from a junk source, but it's not a troll thread. Legitimate discussion is warranted on this. Sweden has surprised many who were gleefully predicting catastrophe.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Enzedder »

We weren't "predicting disaster" - it happened FFS
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Clogs
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 am We weren't "predicting disaster" - it happened FFS
Where?
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Anonymous 1
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 am
Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 am We weren't "predicting disaster" - it happened FFS
Where?
Image

Yes mog I know you've told me it's not about how many people die.

Fuck off
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:51 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 am
Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 am We weren't "predicting disaster" - it happened FFS
Where?
Image

Yes mog I know you've told me it's not about how many people die.

Fuck off
:lol: Put your false outrage in your pocked you silly man. The evidence suggests that Sweden's lack of a lockdown has only had a minor effect on their regrettably high death rate (among mostly very old and compromised nursing home patients who were already in lockdown by their circumstance). That's a fact no matter what sort of childish appeal to emotion you want to make.

Given their time over, I'm sure the Swedish authorities would do things differently. However I very highly doubt that would involve a hard lockdown.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:02 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:51 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 am
Enzedder wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:41 am We weren't "predicting disaster" - it happened FFS
Where?
Image

Yes mog I know you've told me it's not about how many people die.

Fuck off
:lol: Put your false outrage in your pocked you silly man. The evidence suggests that Sweden's lack of a lockdown has only had a minor effect on their regrettably high death rate (among mostly very old and compromised nursing home patients who were already in lockdown by their circumstance). That's a fact no matter what sort of childish appeal to emotion you want to make.

Given their time over, I'm sure the Swedish authorities would do things differently. However I very highly doubt that would involve a hard lockdown.
Morning mog 😂
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
They treated it like it was something easily handled by proper social responsibility. They were incredibly slow to get the message out to shield the vulnerable.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Muttonbirds »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
The minor fact being a 10 fold increase in deaths per million than that of their close neighbours?
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:51 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
The minor fact being a 10 fold increase in deaths per million than that of their close neighbours?
No, that's not what it means. It means that the lack of a hard lockdown has only been a minor contributor to the fact that it has a high death rate. Or at least, that's is what a lot of the newer scientific evidence suggests. I don't think we know for sure. There are many variables in play here, a hard lockdown being only one of them.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:39 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
They treated it like it was something easily handled by proper social responsibility. They were incredibly slow to get the message out to shield the vulnerable.
I think they made some mistakes with the way they handled nursing homes, and they own those mistakes. But I don't think they were slow to get the message out to shield the vulnerable--my girlfriend's parents have been isolated from the start, she and her brother even do their shopping for them, and this is fairly common--and I think at least some of the evidence suggests they are correct that it can be handled (not easily) by proper social responsibility. Sweden's numbers are blown out for a various reasons explained in the scientific studies I've posted and the video analysis, some of them Sweden's fault, others just circumstance. I'm sure they would do a lot differently given their time again, but a hard lock down still wouldn't be on the cards.

That all said, I can also see both sides. it is disappointing and frustrating to note that the Swedish people have let their guard down notably. It's just my own personal anecdotal stories, but where as before there was caution, empty streets, proper social distancing, now it's degenerated into pretty much "life as normal". Even the pubs and bars no longer seem to be enforcing the "every other table" rule. So, maybe they have got a bit cocky thanks to their plummeting infection rate compared to everyone else. That would be a shame and a good argument for lockdown. "Look ... we gave you a chance to do the right thing by yourself--and you almost did it too--but in the end you acted like a bunch of silly brats, so now we're just going to have to force you like everywhere else". :?
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

My memory from talking to people I know there was that there was no public advice to shield as the virus was breaking through and they were shielding themselves due to their own research/knowledge of what went on elsewhere.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:31 pm My memory from talking to people I know there was that there was no public advice to shield as the virus was breaking through and they were shielding themselves due to their own research/knowledge of what went on elsewhere.
There was most certainly strong advice to stay home if possible, self-isolate and help at-risk relatives isolate. There still is. Anders Tegnell was on TV recently warning that we were becoming too relaxed in Sweden, and that people should still be working from home if at all possible and not to drop the ball. Problem is that less people are listening.

When it first hit, Stockholm was like a ghost town. It was bizarre. Now days you wouldn't know there was anything happening.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

Clogs wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:14 am
towny wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:27 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:55 am This is some Grade 1 trolling by Clogs. Australia's economy reduced by less than Sweden's in the June quarter (7% drop compared to 8.3% drop) and their death rate is 16 times higher than our's. So their lax restrictions resulted in a weaker economy and 16 times more deaths.
Sweden’s economy is more vulnerable to international shocks than Australia’s believe it or not. Australia exports rocks - Brazil’s iron ore industry is in tatters, which means Australia has a virtual monopoly. Buying gas isn’t very variable so the biggest exports are cruising. Most Australians are insulated. Meanwhile Sweden exports advanced machinery - orders of which is the first thing that’s cut. Sweden’s integration with Europe is 100 times tighter than Australia’s with anyone, so closing the borders has a huge effect.

The comparison you’re putting forward is comparing apples with fighter jets. It’s simply not relevant.
Everyone knows this, but it won't stop him and his 'special' type of trolling. He will keep flailing away with nonsense pretending its all innocuous until someone nibbles. Then he gets his jollies by shrieking and insulting...
I have seen lots of evidence suggests that most people are not aware of why Sweden’s economy took such a hit. Mostly it’s compared to Norway, a country that exports nothing but oil and salmon. It’s completely understandable why AC may not have understood the economic comparison he was making.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:31 pm My memory from talking to people I know there was that there was no public advice to shield as the virus was breaking through and they were shielding themselves due to their own research/knowledge of what went on elsewhere.
Your memory is 100% wrong and/or the people advising you are liars.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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towny wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:17 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:31 pm My memory from talking to people I know there was that there was no public advice to shield as the virus was breaking through and they were shielding themselves due to their own research/knowledge of what went on elsewhere.
Your memory is 100% wrong and/or the people advising you are liars.
So why were Sweden one of the outliers for shielding nursing homes (in terms of locking them down) and why did Tegnell specifically mention he'd have done things differently for the vulnerable?

I'm talking late Feb/early March btw. No strong advice fron the government to the vulnerable to cocoon.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by MungoMan »

CM11 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:07 am
towny wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:17 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:31 pm My memory from talking to people I know there was that there was no public advice to shield as the virus was breaking through and they were shielding themselves due to their own research/knowledge of what went on elsewhere.
Your memory is 100% wrong and/or the people advising you are liars.
So why were Sweden one of the outliers for shielding nursing homes (in terms of locking them down) and why did Tegnell specifically mention he'd have done things differently for the vulnerable?

I'm talking late Feb/early March btw. No strong advice fron the government to the vulnerable to cocoon.
Aged care homes are reliant on people working there. Not living there in a self-sustaining community: working there. Before and after work, these people go back into the broader community. If aged care homes have a significant number of part-time staff who may have no nursing background (agency staff or whatever), some will likely be working at more than one home. That means a constant stream of potential vectors for the virus to get into a home, even if visitors are debarred.

Absent stringent testing, cleanliness and PPE protocols, if the virus is spreading in the wider community, it is likely to find its way into an aged care home. And those aged care homes cutting costs by using fewer trained nurses and fewer full-time staff are those most likely to skimp on the necessary hygiene etc protocols.

That was the story in Victoria and, to a lesser extent, Tasmania.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

That's a separate and valid point.

Sweden didn't restrict visitors to nursing homes until the end of March.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Enzedder »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
I think it contributed greatly to a general laissez faire attitude that led to a large number of deaths
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by eldanielfire »

Enzedder wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:54 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
I think it contributed greatly to a general laissez faire attitude that led to a large number of deaths
I'm not sure that is true, Sai, France, Belgium and Britain all had lockdowns of varying degrees but all were caught with the same or similar oversight of care homes COVID transference as Sweden. Also SPain is surging like mad after one of the strictest lockdowns in Europe. Germany had a very light lockdown but had one of the best outcomes in Europe. South Korea didn't really have a lockdown and had one of the best responses in the world. The evidence isn't very consistent for lockdowns success. The real difference maker we know of is social distancing, washing hands and a test and trace system followed by rapid action on a local level or through the infection chain.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Enzedder wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:54 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:26 am
CM11 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:14 am No one would hard lockdown again. But no one would treat it as casually as the Swedes initially did either.
How casually did Sweden treat it do you think?

BTW, you're probably right, I'm sure Sweden would do things differently too, like I said. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. However the fact still remains that the lack of a hard lockdown in Sweden likely had only a minor effect.
I think it contributed greatly to a general laissez faire attitude that led to a large number of deaths
Well... who knows? It is possible, although worth noting that deaths per millions is still higher in some other countries that actually did do a hard lock down, including France, Holland, the UK, Belgium and Italy to name a few. So it's very obviously not that black-and-white. Did it contribute something? Maybe. Probably. But there are other factors at play that seem to be far more important.

(In fact, studies that have tracked some of the above countries showed zero shift in the local trend after lockdown was introduced, implying it was completely ineffectual).
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CrazyIslander
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CrazyIslander »

Obviously the families affected by Covid deaths would have a different opinions on how Swedish govt policy went.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:40 am Obviously the families affected by Covid deaths would have a different opinions on how Swedish govt policy went.
Maybe, although it wasn't really government policy, it was from the state medical authorities. The government is more-or-less on the sidelines. You'd have to talk to them personally, it seems to me that Swedes are broadly informed and supportive of Anders Tegnell and his team's approach, but I can imagine individuals directly effected maybe looking for someone or something to blame. That could be Anders Tegnell, the government, nursing home staff or China, or perhaps all of the above.

But in the general population the support for Sweden's approach is appreciably high, at least for the time being. We will see what winter brings.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CrazyIslander »

Fair enough.
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Sweden could have hit this out of the ballpark if they'd managed to shield older people better.
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eldanielfire
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by eldanielfire »

CM11 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:14 am Sweden could have hit this out of the ballpark if they'd managed to shield older people better.
That's what many of us are saying. Though I'm not sure "Out the ball park" is quite what I'd say. They would basically be Finland and Norway.
Last edited by eldanielfire on Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Santa
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Santa »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:29 am
CM11 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:14 am Sweden could have hit this out of the ballpark if they'd managed to shield older people better.
That's what many of us are saying.
Precisely. And yet it is that specific failure that leads people to want to throw the whole approach out.
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