Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

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shanky
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by shanky »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:21 am Then we would have known about it, wouldn't we.

Or did they just vote amongst themselves and tell us when the schedule was released.
Look at the post I made further up
It was SANZAAR who went ahead unilaterally, based on concerns for SA and Arg players

I don't know why they did that, but it certainly wasn't on us
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:21 am Then we would have known about it, wouldn't we.

Or did they just vote amongst themselves and tell us when the schedule was released.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/20 ... ennan.html

"At the September 17 board meeting - and remember SANZAAR runs the competition, not Rugby Australia - we voted along with New Zealand for a five-week competition and we were defeated.”

“On September 17, at the Sanzaar meeting, those dates were agreed. We are conscious of player welfare and want to do good by everyone, but the schedule has been locked in.”
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Enzedder »

towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:24 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:20 am VERY. FUCKING. SIMPLE

It was never put to a vote.

(I didn't know that they had blamed Aussie - did they?)

Next?
Lots of articles that I’m surprised you haven’t read. This thread has lots of them....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... onship-row
Nothing there about a vote - just double-crossing Aussies (we should be used to that though)
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by mr bungle »

I agree, on paper. I think what was needed was a shortening of the schedule out the back end.

You could plant a team at each weekend for The All Blacks to play and chuck a Wallabies/Argies team to be dispatched midweek.

Simple. I’ve solved it again.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:25 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:21 am Then we would have known about it, wouldn't we.

Or did they just vote amongst themselves and tell us when the schedule was released.
Look at the post I made further up
It was SANZAAR who went ahead unilaterally, based on concerns for SA and Arg players

I don't know why they did that, but it certainly wasn't on us
Unilaterally? It was put to a vote: 2 - 2

SANZAR rules say you need unanimous agreement. Why doesn’t NZ just accept the rules when they don’t suit them?

This is like Wyatt Crockett vs Italy all over again.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

mr bungle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:28 am I agree, on paper. I think what was needed was a shortening of the schedule out the back end.

You could plant a team at each weekend for The All Blacks to play and chuck a Wallabies/Argies team to be dispatched midweek.

Simple. I’ve solved it again.
Nah, we’re good.
You don’t get to keep having shots at goal because you missed.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:27 am
towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:24 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:20 am VERY. FUCKING. SIMPLE

It was never put to a vote.

(I didn't know that they had blamed Aussie - did they?)

Next?
Lots of articles that I’m surprised you haven’t read. This thread has lots of them....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... onship-row
Nothing there about a vote - just double-crossing Aussies (we should be used to that though)
:lol:
Last edited by towny on Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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shanky
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by shanky »

mr bungle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:28 am I agree, on paper. I think what was needed was a shortening of the schedule out the back end.

You could plant a team at each weekend for The All Blacks to play and chuck a Wallabies/Argies team to be dispatched midweek.

Simple. I’ve solved it again.
I think the 5-week plan involved a mid-week game

this is what Marinos/SA/Arg were objecting to

There's a pattern developing right?

Marinos...SA...hint hint

And it doesn't involve us or NZ
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by shanky »

towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:29 am
shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:25 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:21 am Then we would have known about it, wouldn't we.

Or did they just vote amongst themselves and tell us when the schedule was released.
Look at the post I made further up
It was SANZAAR who went ahead unilaterally, based on concerns for SA and Arg players

I don't know why they did that, but it certainly wasn't on us
Unilaterally? It was put to a vote: 2 - 2

SANZAR rules say you need unanimous agreement. Why doesn’t NZ just accept the rules when they don’t suit them?

This is like Wyatt Crockett vs Italy all over again.
I was quoting the previous article from RA, dated last week

Your article is new

so, I am still right, technically... 8)
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:31 am
mr bungle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:28 am I agree, on paper. I think what was needed was a shortening of the schedule out the back end.

You could plant a team at each weekend for The All Blacks to play and chuck a Wallabies/Argies team to be dispatched midweek.

Simple. I’ve solved it again.
I think the 5-week plan involved a mid-week game

this is what Marinos/SA/Arg were objecting to

There's a pattern developing right?

Marinos...SA...hint hint

And it doesn't involve us or NZ
Forget it mate. They don’t read the articles.

2 weeks ago they were revelling in the role of bully - now they’re screeching victims. It’s obviously part of their national psyche.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:34 am
towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:29 am
shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:25 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:21 am Then we would have known about it, wouldn't we.

Or did they just vote amongst themselves and tell us when the schedule was released.
Look at the post I made further up
It was SANZAAR who went ahead unilaterally, based on concerns for SA and Arg players

I don't know why they did that, but it certainly wasn't on us
Unilaterally? It was put to a vote: 2 - 2

SANZAR rules say you need unanimous agreement. Why doesn’t NZ just accept the rules when they don’t suit them?

This is like Wyatt Crockett vs Italy all over again.
I was quoting the previous article from RA, dated last week

Your article is new

so, I am still right, technically... 8)
Technically right is the standard I aspire to.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

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:lol:
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by shanky »

Here we go...

‘Leaked minutes show NZR agreed to six-week comp’

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 560r0.html
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:29 am Here we go...

‘Leaked minutes show NZR agreed to six-week comp’

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 560r0.html
Well, it’s going to be interesting to see the reasoned responses from Professor Bungle and the dream team.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Geezus. So the NZRFU agreed to it, then pretended that they had been "blindsided", then throw the toys out of the pram and all of it regarding quarantine rules that are completely within the power of the NZ government and nobody else's business or concern?

Crikey this is not looking good for the so called "spiritual guardians of the game".
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:52 am Geezus. So the NZRFU agreed to it, then pretended that they had been "blindsided", then throw the toys out of the pram and all of it regarding quarantine rules that are completely within the power of the NZ government and nobody else's business or concern?

Crikey this is not looking good for the so called "spiritual guardians of the game".
You hate to see it.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

At the rate that Mark Robinson seems to be spiralling, it’s only a matter of days before he starts blaming the Wuhan flu.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Mog The Almighty »

I think they call it, "The Australian Virus" over there.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by mr bungle »

towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:33 am
shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:29 am Here we go...

‘Leaked minutes show NZR agreed to six-week comp’

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 560r0.html
Well, it’s going to be interesting to see the reasoned responses from Professor Bungle and the dream team.
I haven’t attempted to apportion blame or deflect, everyone is in your sights these days :? I thought a compromise on timing could be reached, is all. I think it’s funny how Cane has spoken out after many were assuring us no All Black had commented and thus may not have an issue. I personally doubt any of the teams would be happy with Xmas in quarantine though.
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Like I said earlier

I think it will resolve itself and the NZ govt will concede some 'technical quarantine'. They do it here all the time

Completely hypocritical of course, but expedient nonetheless.

Everyone will be happy :thumbup:
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

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shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:41 am Like I said earlier

I think it will resolve itself and the NZ govt will concede some 'technical quarantine'. They do it here all the time

Completely hypocritical of course, but expedient nonetheless.

Everyone will be happy :thumbup:
Yep, Ardern is just too earnest, which is common ailment of the far left. ScoMo and Dutton would be waving the Wallabies through customs without a moment's hesitation if the shoe was on the other foot.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by shanky »

Ali's Choice wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:44 am
shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:41 am Like I said earlier

I think it will resolve itself and the NZ govt will concede some 'technical quarantine'. They do it here all the time

Completely hypocritical of course, but expedient nonetheless.

Everyone will be happy :thumbup:
Yep, Ardern is just too earnest, which is common ailment of the far left. ScoMo and Dutton would be waving the Wallabies through customs without a moment's hesitation if the shoe was on the other foot.
Noting of course that it's your beloved Anna P, who was waving the AFL hordes through just so recently :lol:
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Ali's Choice »

shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:48 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:44 am
shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:41 am Like I said earlier

I think it will resolve itself and the NZ govt will concede some 'technical quarantine'. They do it here all the time

Completely hypocritical of course, but expedient nonetheless.

Everyone will be happy :thumbup:
Yep, Ardern is just too earnest, which is common ailment of the far left. ScoMo and Dutton would be waving the Wallabies through customs without a moment's hesitation if the shoe was on the other foot.
Noting of course that it's your beloved Anna P, who was waving the AFL hordes through just so recently :lol:
Not sure what Anna P would have to do with international quarantine practises, or has Lazy ScoMo hand-balled more federal responsibilities to the states?
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

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Nice parsing, bro

anyway, that's for another thread.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Ali's Choice wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:44 am
shanky wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:41 am Like I said earlier

I think it will resolve itself and the NZ govt will concede some 'technical quarantine'. They do it here all the time

Completely hypocritical of course, but expedient nonetheless.

Everyone will be happy :thumbup:
Yep, Ardern is just too earnest, which is common ailment of the far left. ScoMo and Dutton would be waving the Wallabies through customs without a moment's hesitation if the shoe was on the other foot.
Why not? Just be honest and its not a problem. "We're giving the All Blacks a special exemption so they can be with their families on Christmas". And...? Sure you'll get the odd self righteous nut making it all about themselves and having a ,"its not fair" whine. Fůck them. Those people need to grow up.

Mind you, I'm no fan of ScoMo or Dutton. Can't stand either or them really, I much prefer Arden as a person and a politician (although she has her own faults). Point being its not a political statement Im making.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by akann »

Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Mog The Almighty »

akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pm Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
:roll: As if they just made it up.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pm Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
Will you admit kiwis are lying, opportunistic, bullies with a victim mentality if you see the minutes?

I can make some calls if you can commit.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by booze »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:32 pm
akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pm Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
:roll: As if they just made it up.
This petty squabbling between the two boards and on this bored is pretty childish. At a time when both unions need to work together to ensure rugby survives in this part of the world and plan for a future so it can then prosper. Instead, they are acting like this.

The NZR hasnt come out of this looking good at all.
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On the off chance that those minutes are real and accurately show what others who’ve seen them say, It’s hard to see how Mark Robinson can survive this. He has been a disaster for NZ rugby. I’m not sure if NZ fans realise how low their stock has sunk.

It took Trump 4 years ffs.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

booze wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:58 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:32 pm
akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pm Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
:roll: As if they just made it up.
This petty squabbling between the two boards and on this bored is pretty childish. At a time when both unions need to work together to ensure rugby survives in this part of the world and plan for a future so it can then prosper. Instead, they are acting like this.

The NZR hasnt come out of this looking good at all.
The Oz board hasn’t been squabbling- unless you think that acting dignified and respectful in the face of lying, recalcitrance is a problem.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by akann »

towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:53 pm
akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pm Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
Will you admit kiwis are lying, opportunistic, bullies with a victim mentality if you see the minutes?

I can make some calls if you can commit.
I will admit that the NZR are, not kiwis in general.

All I want to see is your media backing up a claim with some evidence. Not too much to ask for. Cos if you are to believe that article then you have to call Marinos a liar too since he has also stated that he hasn't received a sign off from the NZR.
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Personally, I’ve decided I’ll do or say anything if it means we might get the Bledisloe back this year.

Take it away, 1st Swedish Nutter Battalion!
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Mog The Almighty »

akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:01 pm
towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:53 pm
akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pm Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
Will you admit kiwis are lying, opportunistic, bullies with a victim mentality if you see the minutes?

I can make some calls if you can commit.
I will admit that the NZR are, not kiwis in general.

All I want to see is your media backing up a claim with some evidence. Not too much to ask for. Cos if you are to believe that article then you have to call Marinos a liar too since he has also stated that he hasn't received a sign off from the NZR.
Since when do newspapers give up the source of their leaked information?

And without the source, it means nothing really. They could have made it up. In these cases you pretty much have to trust that media organisations are acting with their own journalistic reputation and integrity in mind, instead of making up some nonsense about, of all things, a rugby board meeting. They don't even have a dog in this fight really, why would they make it up? To make one of three other allied governing bodies of a sport that is basically fourth-string in Australia look bad? Seems extremely unlikely.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by towny »

akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:01 pm
towny wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:53 pm
akann wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pm Will the SMH provide us evidence of those minutes or are they just going to make a baseless claim?
Will you admit kiwis are lying, opportunistic, bullies with a victim mentality if you see the minutes?

I can make some calls if you can commit.
I will admit that the NZR are, not kiwis in general.

All I want to see is your media backing up a claim with some evidence. Not too much to ask for. Cos if you are to believe that article then you have to call Marinos a liar too since he has also stated that he hasn't received a sign off from the NZR.
Do you think boards draw up contracts for each member to sign when they make operational decisions?

Your reasoning is not dissimilar to a Trumpster - I’m presuming it progresses like this over the coming days!
1. Fake news!! Minutes don’t exist!!
2. Okay, minutes exist! But they were written by a lying non-kiwi who wants to steal our mana!
3. Okay, it happened, but Mark Robinson didn’t lie! He told the truth as he understood it! Besides!! TREVOR CHAPPELL!!!!!
4. Okay, Robbo is a liar, but so is The Hammer and that Saffer plum! They lie all the time! This isn’t even a big lie. It’s not a big deal. This is how businessmen negotiate you farkin carnts!! Don’t you know anything? AGGGH!!! YOU SCUM BAGS CALLED SIR RICHARD HADLEE A WANKER!!!!


-
-
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<snigger>

:blush:
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:36 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:14 pm their own personal laws, which are completely within their own power and totally outside anyone else's
So basically you're saying that in cases where one party is subject to a law, the other party should simply adopt a stance of "Sucks to be you".

Or are you arguing that NZ should have negotiated with SANZAAR on the expectation that they could simply get the govt to waive the laws?

It's pretty simple, NZ Rugby is subject to a law that makes playing after Dec 5 undesirable to them, so they're trying to negotiate around that. Now it seems they've done a pretty shitty job at it, but that doesn't mean they were stupid to attempt it.
I'm not saying they're stupid to attempt it. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with their laws (although I think there is, and same goes for Australia, but that's beside the point).

What I am saying is that firstly, it's nobody's problem but NZs, and secondly, it's extremely easy to fix it and that is totally within the power of the NZ government. What's the easier solution here? a) reschedule an international tournament to the inconvenience of other participants; b) let a couple of dozen guys go home for a day.

See what I'm getting it?

Yes, but once again you're acting like NZ Rugby & the NZ Govt are in lock step.

In terms of "What's easier to change?", from NZ Rugby's perspective the answer is the schedule. They actually have some input into that, unlike the laws of NZ which they would be entirely at the govt's discretion.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:16 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:36 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:14 pm their own personal laws, which are completely within their own power and totally outside anyone else's
So basically you're saying that in cases where one party is subject to a law, the other party should simply adopt a stance of "Sucks to be you".

Or are you arguing that NZ should have negotiated with SANZAAR on the expectation that they could simply get the govt to waive the laws?

It's pretty simple, NZ Rugby is subject to a law that makes playing after Dec 5 undesirable to them, so they're trying to negotiate around that. Now it seems they've done a pretty shitty job at it, but that doesn't mean they were stupid to attempt it.
I'm not saying they're stupid to attempt it. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with their laws (although I think there is, and same goes for Australia, but that's beside the point).

What I am saying is that firstly, it's nobody's problem but NZs, and secondly, it's extremely easy to fix it and that is totally within the power of the NZ government. What's the easier solution here? a) reschedule an international tournament to the inconvenience of other participants; b) let a couple of dozen guys go home for a day.

See what I'm getting it?

Yes, but once again you're acting like NZ Rugby & the NZ Govt are in lock step.

In terms of "What's easier to change?", from NZ Rugby's perspective the answer is the schedule. They actually have some input into that, unlike the laws of NZ which they would be entirely at the govt's discretion.
Yes, you are totally correct about that. I'm acting like NZ is one huge united entity, which is flawed. And yes, of course the NZRFU will work within their limits to get the best outcome for NZ rugby. The point I'm making I guess, is that it's not really fair to go pointing the fingers at other countries. You own country has something to do with it too. Although I concede, maybe it's not the greatest of points.

In any case, the latest news seems to be the NZRFU had agreed to the deal anyway. :?:
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Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:19 pm Yes, you are totally correct about that. I'm acting like NZ is one huge united entity, which is flawed. And yes, of course the NZRFU will work within their limits to get the best outcome for NZ rugby. The point I'm making I guess, is that it's not really fair to go pointing the fingers at other countries. You own country has something to do with it too. Although I concede, maybe it's not the greatest of points.

In any case, the latest news seems to be the NZRFU had agreed to the deal anyway. :?:
Even in a non covid year NZR wouldn't have much in the way of leverage but given how desperately they need the cash, they were always gonna have to agree eventually.
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Re: Rugby Championship - to be in Aus...

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:23 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:19 pm Yes, you are totally correct about that. I'm acting like NZ is one huge united entity, which is flawed. And yes, of course the NZRFU will work within their limits to get the best outcome for NZ rugby. The point I'm making I guess, is that it's not really fair to go pointing the fingers at other countries. You own country has something to do with it too. Although I concede, maybe it's not the greatest of points.

In any case, the latest news seems to be the NZRFU had agreed to the deal anyway. :?:
Even in a non covid year NZR wouldn't have much in the way of leverage but given how desperately they need the cash, they were always gonna have to agree eventually.
Yes well, fair enough. Everyone has to look after their own, and personally I really value NZ rugby and think it's great thing that a relatively small island nation is the world rugby power. So I have nothing against NZ rugby.

However, if they did actually agree to the schedule and then kicked up a big stink and started pointing their fingers at other nations, including Australia--who apparently were the only one to support their proposal of an earlier match--then that's not a great look. But of course I recognise that's one or a handful of individuals, who were probably doing what they thought was best too, not the entire nation including the government involved in some huge plot. Still, not a great look.

I guess it's some sort of compliment that NZ Rugby see the Wallabies as legitimate enough threat they're willing to play covert mind games.
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