Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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obelixtim
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Mate in the States say that the call sign for the Presidential plane is going to be changed to Air Force Wu Han.
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Zakar
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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RandomNavigat0r wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:10 pm Has anyone actually considered the fact he might just have to lay in bed for a few days like you would with the cold and flu and a after a week or so he will probably just get ready to continue his campaign as normal..

Hardly any early 70 year olds that don't have a serious pre existing conditions ( and when I say serious I mean like a Lung or Liver disease, not f**king high cholesterol FFS) actually get sick to the point they are fighting for their life.

The guy is pretty healthy for a 70 year old, there are far worse 50 to 60 year olds out there than Trump that also wouldn't die from this virus.

Look at the deaths in Australia. 650 of them were from people in their late 80s or 90s in aged care centres in Victoria alone, and most would have died from any type of Flu/ Cold or Virus considering their health was in such a bad state.

No doubt COVID can kill, and it has, but let's not get caught up in the whole Trump's gonna die just because he caught the big bad scary COVID, he has access to far better medical facilities than all these aged care victims..

:Yawn:
Pretty healthy? He's morbidly obese. :lol:

Who knows what unreported other health issues he has, obesity causes a lot of follow on problems.
obelixtim
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Zakar wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:13 am
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:10 pm Has anyone actually considered the fact he might just have to lay in bed for a few days like you would with the cold and flu and a after a week or so he will probably just get ready to continue his campaign as normal..

Hardly any early 70 year olds that don't have a serious pre existing conditions ( and when I say serious I mean like a Lung or Liver disease, not f**king high cholesterol FFS) actually get sick to the point they are fighting for their life.

The guy is pretty healthy for a 70 year old, there are far worse 50 to 60 year olds out there than Trump that also wouldn't die from this virus.

Look at the deaths in Australia. 650 of them were from people in their late 80s or 90s in aged care centres in Victoria alone, and most would have died from any type of Flu/ Cold or Virus considering their health was in such a bad state.

No doubt COVID can kill, and it has, but let's not get caught up in the whole Trump's gonna die just because he caught the big bad scary COVID, he has access to far better medical facilities than all these aged care victims..

:Yawn:
Pretty healthy? He's morbidly obese. :lol:

Who knows what unreported other health issues he has, obesity causes a lot of follow on problems.
Well those Bone Spurs could flare up any time.
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Tehui
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Fat Old Git wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:56 pm Yes. And your previous posts on this forum have given me quite a high level confidence that my understating of science and mathematics is likely to be at a higher level than your yours.
:lol:
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:53 am Not if everyone does it.
:lol:
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Clogs wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:27 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:53 am Not if everyone does it.
:lol:
I don't see what's funny about that. It is estimated 90% of lives could have been saved if there was a coordinated global lockdown. I'm not sure why some people think it's impossible. :?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:23 am
Clogs wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:27 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:53 am Not if everyone does it.
:lol:
I don't see what's funny about that. It is estimated 90% of lives could have been saved if there was a coordinated global lockdown. I'm not sure why some people think it's impossible. :?
A global lockdown is not possible.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:23 am
Clogs wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:27 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:53 am Not if everyone does it.
:lol:
I don't see what's funny about that. It is estimated 90% of lives could have been saved if there was a coordinated global lockdown. I'm not sure why some people think it's impossible. :?
Because most countries are not surrounded by ocean 2000km from civilization.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Had they locked down Chinese travel earlier it would've made things easier. In fact, had the Chinese been alert they would've locked down Wuhan in December and travel overseas.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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I hold China totally responsible. I've begun my anti-China protest by not buying Chinese made products where possible.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Zakar wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:48 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:23 am
Clogs wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:27 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:53 am Not if everyone does it.
:lol:
I don't see what's funny about that. It is estimated 90% of lives could have been saved if there was a coordinated global lockdown. I'm not sure why some people think it's impossible. :?
Because most countries are not surrounded by ocean 2000km from civilization.
Shouldn't matter. If decent leadership is there people will do what's right.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Do not wish the for the POTUS to expire as a result of COVID , even thought the delicious irony of that sweet drink would wash away the bitterness in my mouth towards the Orange one.

No, I will take the high road and wish him a speedy recovery and full health after hovering between life and death for a week or two, maintained by a ventilator until like a miracle the Kong Flu disappears. :yawn:

Melania who is quite 'fit' should pull through and be right as rain for Christmas. :thumbup:
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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I was already frightened about this US election, but I've been waking up in fear since Trump tested positive, as the history of western civilization will be at stake, and the choice is a no-brainer, between Trump and the tangled web of opportunist/fanatics, criminals piggy-backing on 'noble' causes, anarchists, radicals, terrorists both urban and international, big money profiteers (viz. the climate change movement) and minority groups craving upward mobility who now comprise the Democrats' followers. I have lived long enough to see the Party evolve from that of the 60s, which actually stood for something, to one which values nothing except an opportunity to jump on board any wagon, however dubious, that will vote for it in response.

They seem to have no values except 'win at any cost', and we would be facing the threat of the biggest selling-out of a country in the history of the planet, were they to win.

I took a little bit of heart today to hear that he has picked up a bit in health. Just hope it continues.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Trump tests positive with no symptoms . Two days later he is in hospital and his doctors are saying he is not out of the woods yet but he is getting better :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:20 am Trump tests positive with no symptoms . Two days later he is in hospital and his doctors are saying he is not out of the woods yet but he is getting better :lol: :lol: :lol:
Interesting to look at the date of this tweet.

https://twitter.com/JohnCammo/status/13 ... 5125202946

And so it came to pass.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:20 am Trump tests positive with no symptoms . Two days later he is in hospital and his doctors are saying he is not out of the woods yet but he is getting better :lol: :lol: :lol:
He'll be back to save the day. The greats always do.

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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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JB1981 wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:25 pm
paddyor wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:21 pm That party for Coney Barrett announcement is like the scene in zoolander where they have a petrol fight.
Which poses the question, who out of Derek and Donald would win a debate?
Tough one. Neither of them can turn left.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Loved this tweet
BREAKING: Mike Pence has been moved to Trump National Golf Course in case he needs to assume Trump’s duties.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:50 pm Everybody is gambling. Nobody knows what that right thing to do is or the long term effects of various strategies.

He did what he thought was right. Obviously a huge viral catastrophe wasn't in his re-election plans. He's also not the only one making the calls, in fact the States have most of the power in the US.

And it's not even clear what would have happened without a lockdown. Virtually every reasoned expert I listen to says they're a large over reaction. I heard earlier today that the statistics in the UK suggest they cost as many lives as the virus takes and the long-term effects are unknown. Thats a gamble too.

Trump is a bufoon, a liar and a bore but he's not a murderer. I don't want him to be in charge of the most powerful nation in the world but I think a political landscape that is so polarized that people on the left are gleefully rubbing their hands together, wishing death upon him and speculating they'd do the job themselves if covid fails, that is a profound problem much bigger than the problem of Trump himself. (Of course that swings both ways with nutters on the right wishing similar on Obama etc. - but make no mistake that the fringe of both sides are just as immoral, dangerous and narrow-minded as each other).
Yes, but most govts are gambling on what is best for the public good. I don't doubt that re-election and popularity are a consideration for the likes of Ardern and other govts around the world, but I highly doubt that many politicians are as concerned with their own welfare to the level of Trump.

I think you're being very naive. Even Arden is still a politician, she's just playing a different tune to a different crowd. Although you wouldn't known it, hard lock-downs are more a political manauvere than something born of medical scientific advice. The evidence for them (prolonged, hard lockdowns enforced with a heavy hand) is flimsy, and in the UK at least it's estimated the lockdown has cost just as many lives as the actual virus. For example, the number of heart-attacks, strokes, etc. being treated in the UK is roughly 50% the normal numbers, and that's not because they're not happening; there are many other factors at play too than just that example (source).
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm And anyone who wants to be President, Trump pretty obviously has a serious personality disorder. I don't know if he actually is a sociopath, but he definitely shares a lot of traits with one. He's not weighing up the social/economic costs of lockdown vs the benefits, he's weighing up what makes him look best.
I have heard it speculated that he has narcissistic personality disorded, which wouldn't surprise me. Then again, I suspect a lot of politicians have these types of afflictions. Many of them are probably psycopaths too. In case it's not clear, I'm not a fan of any politicians really (perhaps there's one or two odd exceptions). They're all weighing up what makes them look best, and obviously a raging viral pandemic doesn't make Trump look good. It's not as if that's what he expected and hoped for. He obviously believed his own bullshit to some extent as he obviously didn't want an out-of-control pandemic going into an election! He may have made gross errors and been negligent in listening to scientists and experts (since when is this new for a politcian?) but I think we can at least stop talking as if Trump wanted this, or that it makes him look good.
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm Like I said, I don't blame him for every death but I do blame him for his constant public downplaying of the virus and have no doubt that it's contributed to many people not taking precautions or indulging in risky behavior. So indirectly, he shares some responsibility for some deaths.
That is a very fair comment and I agree entirley with that.

Is that good enough to execute him? Or at the least, wish a horrible death upon him?
Last edited by Mog The Almighty on Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?

The concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 am No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?
Read the thread. (I didn't say gun down in the street).
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 amThe concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
Most of us? I don't even know anyone that's tested positive to it, let alone been air-lifted to hospital. I'm pretty sure he's more up close than the vast majority of the population right now.

My point here is simply to do away with the ultra-partisan tribal politics. Trump is a nazi and I want to see him dead is just as wrong, inane and horrifying a statement as Obama is a communist and I want to see him dead. If a right wing nut said that, many of those making the same statement for the other team would feign outrage and shock.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 am No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?

The concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
This is new.

When did you test positive to Covid Muttonbirds?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:14 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 am No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?
Read the thread. (I didn't say gun down in the street).
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 amThe concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
Most of us? I don't even know anyone that's tested positive to it, let alone been air-lifted to hospital. I'm pretty sure he's more up close than the vast majority of the population right now.
I thought you lost your job over Covid. Most of us have had to endure major disruption to life. It sticks in the craw when some leaders and scientists downplay this disease. These are the guys who influence the behaviour of hundreds of millions of people and it would be great if they had first hand experience of the virus which they dismiss.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Dark wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:17 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 am No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?

The concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
This is new.

When did you test positive to Covid Muttonbirds?
Oh, it's the most dense poster on this forum by some margin. Where have I even suggested I have tested positive?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:20 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:14 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 am No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?
Read the thread. (I didn't say gun down in the street).
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 amThe concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
Most of us? I don't even know anyone that's tested positive to it, let alone been air-lifted to hospital. I'm pretty sure he's more up close than the vast majority of the population right now.
I thought you lost your job over Covid. Most of us have had to endure major disruption to life. It sticks in the craw when some leaders and scientists downplay this disease. These are the guys who influence the behaviour hundreds of millions of people and it would be great if they had first hand experience of the virus which they dismiss.
For the record, I did not. The company sacked an entire department, but it appears it was not covid-related, just horrible timing. I, along with a handful of others, were retained in the end. That is neither here nor there as my personal experience aside there is no doubt that huge numbers of people have indeed lost their job and are suffering in other ways. I would stress that is due to the response to covid, the virus itself didn't sack anyone. I'm not pretending I know a better way to handle it, although there probably is one, I'm just pointing it out.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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mightyreds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:06 am I was already frightened about this US election, but I've been waking up in fear since Trump tested positive, as the history of western civilization will be at stake, and the choice is a no-brainer, between Trump and the tangled web of opportunist/fanatics, criminals piggy-backing on 'noble' causes, anarchists, radicals, terrorists both urban and international, big money profiteers (viz. the climate change movement) and minority groups craving upward mobility who now comprise the Democrats' followers. I have lived long enough to see the Party evolve from that of the 60s, which actually stood for something, to one which values nothing except an opportunity to jump on board any wagon, however dubious, that will vote for it in response.

They seem to have no values except 'win at any cost', and we would be facing the threat of the biggest selling-out of a country in the history of the planet, were they to win.

I took a little bit of heart today to hear that he has picked up a bit in health. Just hope it continues.
Move along, nothing to see here folks. It’s just the Queensland view.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Olo wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:31 am
mightyreds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:06 am I was already frightened about this US election, but I've been waking up in fear since Trump tested positive, as the history of western civilization will be at stake, and the choice is a no-brainer, between Trump and the tangled web of opportunist/fanatics, criminals piggy-backing on 'noble' causes, anarchists, radicals, terrorists both urban and international, big money profiteers (viz. the climate change movement) and minority groups craving upward mobility who now comprise the Democrats' followers. I have lived long enough to see the Party evolve from that of the 60s, which actually stood for something, to one which values nothing except an opportunity to jump on board any wagon, however dubious, that will vote for it in response.

They seem to have no values except 'win at any cost', and we would be facing the threat of the biggest selling-out of a country in the history of the planet, were they to win.

I took a little bit of heart today to hear that he has picked up a bit in health. Just hope it continues.
Move along, nothing to see here folks. It’s just the Queensland view.
This is weird. I thought mightyreds was a socially conscious leftie. It's either a satire post or he's been faking it all along. Quite what the Democrats of the 1960s have to do with the present state of US politics I do not know. :?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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mightyreds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:06 am I was already frightened about this US election, but I've been waking up in fear since Trump tested positive, as the history of western civilization will be at stake, and the choice is a no-brainer, between Trump and the tangled web of opportunist/fanatics, criminals piggy-backing on 'noble' causes, anarchists, radicals, terrorists both urban and international, big money profiteers (viz. the climate change movement) and minority groups craving upward mobility who now comprise the Democrats' followers. I have lived long enough to see the Party evolve from that of the 60s, which actually stood for something, to one which values nothing except an opportunity to jump on board any wagon, however dubious, that will vote for it in response.

They seem to have no values except 'win at any cost', and we would be facing the threat of the biggest selling-out of a country in the history of the planet, were they to win.

I took a little bit of heart today to hear that he has picked up a bit in health. Just hope it continues.

Fa-a-a-ark. You do know that the Democrats won the popular vote last time around, do you?

What "values" does the Orange Buffoon hold dear? Grabbing pussies? Trashing the environment? Allowing Covid-19 pretty much free rein? Denying climate change? Giving huge tax cuts to billionaires? Claiming to have a health care plan which turns out to be just trashing the Affordable Care Act, with no substitute? Idolising white supremacists and other neo-Nazis? Not allowing the release of his tax returns, unlike every other candidate in living memory? Cozying up to Putin?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

Post by Dark »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:24 am
Dark wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:17 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 am No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?

The concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
This is new.

When did you test positive to Covid Muttonbirds?
Oh, it's the most dense poster on this forum by some margin. Where have I even suggested I have tested positive?
The red bit my rather slow comprehender of your own words
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Dark wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:47 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:24 am
Dark wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:17 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 am No sure where the idea came from that people want to gun down Trump and Anders Tegnell in the street. :?

The concept is that these two, while not being outright pandemic deniers, do have a somewhat casual attitude towards Covid. It would therefore be great for them to get some of it up close after what most of us have had to endure this year.
This is new.

When did you test positive to Covid Muttonbirds?
Oh, it's the most dense poster on this forum by some margin. Where have I even suggested I have tested positive?
The red bit my rather slow comprehender of your own words
You do claim you suffer from dyslexia so perhaps that's it?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:34 am This is weird. I thought mightyreds was a socially conscious leftie. It's either a satire post or he's been faking it all along. Quite what the Democrats of the 1960s have to do with the present state of US politics I do not know. :?
You've mistaken him. Mightyreds is a loon, a card-carrying RWNJ, Massive Trump fan.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

Post by Mog The Almighty »

mightyreds wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:06 am I was already frightened about this US election, but I've been waking up in fear since Trump tested positive, as the history of western civilization will be at stake, and the choice is a no-brainer, between Trump and the tangled web of opportunist/fanatics, criminals piggy-backing on 'noble' causes, anarchists, radicals, terrorists both urban and international, big money profiteers (viz. the climate change movement) and minority groups craving upward mobility who now comprise the Democrats' followers. I have lived long enough to see the Party evolve from that of the 60s, which actually stood for something, to one which values nothing except an opportunity to jump on board any wagon, however dubious, that will vote for it in response.

They seem to have no values except 'win at any cost', and we would be facing the threat of the biggest selling-out of a country in the history of the planet, were they to win.

I took a little bit of heart today to hear that he has picked up a bit in health. Just hope it continues.
:lol: What a lunatic.

You know someone has had their head seriously scrambled when they think the "big money profiteers" are not actually the conservative old billionaires running the world's multi-trillion dollar coal and oil trade ... they're actually the world's entire scientific community and environmental activists. He's been brainwashed with absurd nonsense and it's quite concerning to witness because he's sure not the only one.

To jump back on my old horse quickly, I will add that when the other team go about Trump being akin to a murderous villain, a Nazi or a white supremisist, they sound almost (not quite, but in the same rough ballpark) as mentally scrambled-up as poor old mightyreds here.

I haven't seen it yet, but apparently "The Social Dilemma" is quite a good documentary that makes some effort in explaining how this is happening on both sides of the political divide.

It's a dangerous time for democracy for sure. The failings of that system become obvious when a significant amount of the voting public is so absurdly misinforned.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

Post by UncleFB »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:09 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:50 pm Everybody is gambling. Nobody knows what that right thing to do is or the long term effects of various strategies.

He did what he thought was right. Obviously a huge viral catastrophe wasn't in his re-election plans. He's also not the only one making the calls, in fact the States have most of the power in the US.

And it's not even clear what would have happened without a lockdown. Virtually every reasoned expert I listen to says they're a large over reaction. I heard earlier today that the statistics in the UK suggest they cost as many lives as the virus takes and the long-term effects are unknown. Thats a gamble too.

Trump is a bufoon, a liar and a bore but he's not a murderer. I don't want him to be in charge of the most powerful nation in the world but I think a political landscape that is so polarized that people on the left are gleefully rubbing their hands together, wishing death upon him and speculating they'd do the job themselves if covid fails, that is a profound problem much bigger than the problem of Trump himself. (Of course that swings both ways with nutters on the right wishing similar on Obama etc. - but make no mistake that the fringe of both sides are just as immoral, dangerous and narrow-minded as each other).
Yes, but most govts are gambling on what is best for the public good. I don't doubt that re-election and popularity are a consideration for the likes of Ardern and other govts around the world, but I highly doubt that many politicians are as concerned with their own welfare to the level of Trump.

I think you're being very naive. Even Arden is still a politician, she's just playing a different tune to a different crowd. Although you wouldn't known it, hard lock-downs are more a political manauvere than something born of medical scientific advice. The evidence for them (prolonged, hard lockdowns enforced with a heavy hand) is flimsy, and in the UK at least it's estimated the lockdown has cost just as many lives as the actual virus. For example, the number of heart-attacks, strokes, etc. being treated in the UK is roughly 50% the normal numbers, and that's not because they're not happening; there are many other factors at play too than just that example (source).
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm And anyone who wants to be President, Trump pretty obviously has a serious personality disorder. I don't know if he actually is a sociopath, but he definitely shares a lot of traits with one. He's not weighing up the social/economic costs of lockdown vs the benefits, he's weighing up what makes him look best.
I have heard it speculated that he has narcissistic personality disorded, which wouldn't surprise me. Then again, I suspect a lot of politicians have these types of afflictions. Many of them are probably psycopaths too. In case it's not clear, I'm not a fan of any politicians really (perhaps there's one or two odd exceptions). They're all weighing up what makes them look best, and obviously a raging viral pandemic doesn't make Trump look good. It's not as if that's what he expected and hoped for. He obviously believed his own bullshit to some extent as he obviously didn't want an out-of-control pandemic going into an election! He may have made gross errors and been negligent in listening to scientists and experts (since when is this new for a politcian?) but I think we can at least stop talking as if Trump wanted this, or that it makes him look good.
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm Like I said, I don't blame him for every death but I do blame him for his constant public downplaying of the virus and have no doubt that it's contributed to many people not taking precautions or indulging in risky behavior. So indirectly, he shares some responsibility for some deaths.
That is a very fair comment and I agree entirley with that.

Is that good enough to execute him? Or at the least, wish a horrible death upon him?
Can you please post proper sources for your claims about hard lockdowns? You frequently state how bad they are and how the evidence shows this yet you never post the evidence (and I don't mean Youtube clips). How are we to know if you're correct or not if you make the claim and don't provide the evidence?

I'm sure if Strokes and Heart Attacks aren't being treated then it will be reflected in the death statistics? What evidence do you have that all these govts aren't being advised to lock down by their medical experts and are doing it anyway?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Finally the BBC is suggesting the audience is being played
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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UncleFB wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:14 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:09 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:50 pm Everybody is gambling. Nobody knows what that right thing to do is or the long term effects of various strategies.

He did what he thought was right. Obviously a huge viral catastrophe wasn't in his re-election plans. He's also not the only one making the calls, in fact the States have most of the power in the US.

And it's not even clear what would have happened without a lockdown. Virtually every reasoned expert I listen to says they're a large over reaction. I heard earlier today that the statistics in the UK suggest they cost as many lives as the virus takes and the long-term effects are unknown. Thats a gamble too.

Trump is a bufoon, a liar and a bore but he's not a murderer. I don't want him to be in charge of the most powerful nation in the world but I think a political landscape that is so polarized that people on the left are gleefully rubbing their hands together, wishing death upon him and speculating they'd do the job themselves if covid fails, that is a profound problem much bigger than the problem of Trump himself. (Of course that swings both ways with nutters on the right wishing similar on Obama etc. - but make no mistake that the fringe of both sides are just as immoral, dangerous and narrow-minded as each other).
Yes, but most govts are gambling on what is best for the public good. I don't doubt that re-election and popularity are a consideration for the likes of Ardern and other govts around the world, but I highly doubt that many politicians are as concerned with their own welfare to the level of Trump.

I think you're being very naive. Even Arden is still a politician, she's just playing a different tune to a different crowd. Although you wouldn't known it, hard lock-downs are more a political manauvere than something born of medical scientific advice. The evidence for them (prolonged, hard lockdowns enforced with a heavy hand) is flimsy, and in the UK at least it's estimated the lockdown has cost just as many lives as the actual virus. For example, the number of heart-attacks, strokes, etc. being treated in the UK is roughly 50% the normal numbers, and that's not because they're not happening; there are many other factors at play too than just that example (source).
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm And anyone who wants to be President, Trump pretty obviously has a serious personality disorder. I don't know if he actually is a sociopath, but he definitely shares a lot of traits with one. He's not weighing up the social/economic costs of lockdown vs the benefits, he's weighing up what makes him look best.
I have heard it speculated that he has narcissistic personality disorded, which wouldn't surprise me. Then again, I suspect a lot of politicians have these types of afflictions. Many of them are probably psycopaths too. In case it's not clear, I'm not a fan of any politicians really (perhaps there's one or two odd exceptions). They're all weighing up what makes them look best, and obviously a raging viral pandemic doesn't make Trump look good. It's not as if that's what he expected and hoped for. He obviously believed his own bullshit to some extent as he obviously didn't want an out-of-control pandemic going into an election! He may have made gross errors and been negligent in listening to scientists and experts (since when is this new for a politcian?) but I think we can at least stop talking as if Trump wanted this, or that it makes him look good.
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm Like I said, I don't blame him for every death but I do blame him for his constant public downplaying of the virus and have no doubt that it's contributed to many people not taking precautions or indulging in risky behavior. So indirectly, he shares some responsibility for some deaths.
That is a very fair comment and I agree entirley with that.

Is that good enough to execute him? Or at the least, wish a horrible death upon him?
Can you please post proper sources for your claims about hard lockdowns? You frequently state how bad they are and how the evidence shows this yet you never post the evidence (and I don't mean Youtube clips). How are we to know if you're correct or not if you make the claim and don't provide the evidence?
If a candid interview with a world-renown medical expert isn't "evidence", then I'm not sure what counts. I suspect this is one of those ideological opinions that will not change no matter how much evidence is supplied, unfortunatey. But for the record, I have posted evidence, multiple times. I can do it again for you if it will make any difference. The big problem with posting this kind of stuff is that none of us are actually qualified to read, understand and analyse these studies (assuming that none of us are experts in the statistics of viral pandemics), but for the record:

Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no evident impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic.

LOCKDOWN ADDED LITTLE OR NOTHING HOMBURG 2020

Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions against COVID-19 in Europe

Note also that I'm not saying these studies are conclusively "right". I'm just saying that evidence enough exists. The truth is, as I've said for a long time, we won't know for years to come when the full extent of the coronavirus and the full extent of the effects of hard lockdowns becomes more obvious. But the very latest science coming out seems to suggest that hard lockdowns are at the very least nowhere near as effective as some politicians make them out to be.

This is a global emergency, people are going to die no matter what, the economy will suffer no matter what. No politician wants to be seen to be doing little or nothing in this situation, no matter what the science actually says.

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:54 pm I'm sure if Strokes and Heart Attacks aren't being treated then it will be reflected in the death statistics? What evidence do you have that all these govts aren't being advised to lock down by their medical experts and are doing it anyway?
It's a matter of public record that Sweden's response, for example, was based on scientific evidence, and many neighbouring countries were advised to follow the same path but did not for political reasons. The politicians are basically side-lined in Sweden, they have little or no say incases of national emergency where it's mandated by the system that the qualified experts run the show.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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MOG are you saying the Swedish approach was the scientific one?
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:55 am MOG are you saying the Swedish approach was the scientific one?
Yes.

I can see where this is going, and suggest there's an entire thread for discussing that. Sweden made mistakes, and if they could have their time over, I'm sure would do things differently with the benefit of retrospect. But a prolonged hard lockdown would not be one of those things.
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Re: Trump tests positive with Covid with his wife too

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Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:57 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:55 am MOG are you saying the Swedish approach was the scientific one?
Yes.

I can see where this is going, and suggest there's an entire thread for discussing that. Sweden made mistakes, and if they could have their time over, I'm sure would do things differently with the benefit of retrospect. But a prolonged hard lockdown would not be one of those things.
Why would prolonged hard lockdown not be the best scientific approach?
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