Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

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CrazyIslander
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by CrazyIslander »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:44 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:42 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:38 pm I try to ignore these threads but just to show that the green does get rubbed both ways:

1) Oz number ten takes out Jordie for the Korobeti try

2) Big Karl wrongly penalised for that last Oz penalty
The Oz 10 was the passer, he's allowed to run his line.
Karl fell the wrong side. It's penalty everytime whether it's your fault or not.
I may be misremembering, but I don't recall him falling over at all - he was on his feet playing the ball.
He fell over.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

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shanky
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by shanky »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:58 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:08 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:38 pm I try to ignore these threads but just to show that the green does get rubbed both ways:

1) Oz number ten takes out Jordie for the Korobeti try

2) Big Karl wrongly penalised for that last Oz penalty
I'm sure calls went both ways, but in this match, I don't think it was close to even when it was all said and done. Two AB trys were blatantly non-tries and the thing at the end was totally egregious in a match-winning situation. After Reece Hodge's monster kick that hit the post, the recovering AB player also clearly knocked the ball on. You were saying a week ago that you think 99.987% should be knock-ons. Is this one of the 0.013% that clearly went backwards? Hardly. Should have been a scrum in front of the posts. A litany of game changing refereeing errors that patently favoured the all blacks. That's just reality.

But I don't want to be seen as the whinger. I do believe what I said, but should have kept it to myself, although I can't put that cat back in the bag now. All I will say is that if and when the Wallabies get the benefit of a bunch of dodgy calls, I'd like to think I'll be the first one to say so. That's just how our game happens sometimes. This time we got the short end of the stick, but next time it might be the other way around.
Ok -

1 - The foot on the line was a bad miss. But it happens.

2 - The holding back wasn't 'egregious' it was just a miss. Tons of tries feature infringements behind the ball that go missed, it's really not unusual.

3 - As I said above, immediately prior to the AB playing the ball on the deck, it was kicked by a non bound Aus player and went back into a player on the deck. Now that's accidental offside firstly, but it was also arguably out of the ruck when it then got kicked back in (which would mean it's able to be played). So while the ref missed the infringement, if he'd picked everything else up it wouldn't have even been an infringement.

4 - Yeah, he knocked on. And Aus recovered the ball - due to an AB recognising that playing it would be a potential offside. Aus didn't lose out at all on that call. They got the ball and played a bunch of phases - you think Aus should have got a multi phase advantage from a knock on?
Law debate, not whinging...

on your 3rd point, the ball was in the ruck

Accidental offside applies to open play

Otherwise, there'd be accidental offsides at every scrum
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Thomas
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Thomas »

Here's the incident where the Wallaby 10 falls into Jordie Barrett who also falls over.

He was pushed by Ioane after he passed the ball.

Jordie wouldn't have caught MK though.

https://youtu.be/Y-h5YNsgPbg?t=220
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UncleFB
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by UncleFB »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:20 pm All the time.

You're still drunk from last night. I agree to disagree, I'm sick of whining about this, it's in the books. I'm over it.

The All Blacks are an awesome side and almost impossible to beat. It's going to be a hell of a series. Water under the bridge, I look forwards to the next ones and hope that wasn't a flash in the pan by our boys.
:lol:
You started, then kept this hissy fit thread going.
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Clogs
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Clogs »

Unfortunately Rugby finds itself in this position all too often. The outcome of this match has ultimately been decided not by the merits of the players but by the abilities of the man with the whistle (and his assistants).
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

shanky wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:52 pm
Law debate, not whinging...

on your 3rd point, the ball was in the ruck

Accidental offside applies to open play

Otherwise, there'd be accidental offsides at every scrum
Nope, Toomua who kicked it wasn't bound.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:50 pm He fell over.
I wasn't misremembering, he was on his feet playing the ball and only fell over when cleared out. There was another AB on the deck (though they did roll away). Your own image shows that when he fell over, the ball was miles away as he'd already played it.

It was a weird one though, I'm not entirely sure what the ref saw. You could argue Big Karl didn't release but that's not what the ref said. But hey ho, it's not like marginal penalties are unusual in rugby.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

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Fair enough. I've never seen that given though, have you?

Even if the ball was therefore 'out', and assuming the ref considered Tuaa'li to then be within his rights

Black 10 was offside and becomes involved in the play. That was the original offence....

Nonetheless, I doubt the ref calculated all this. In fact, I don't think he saw Tuaa'li at all. He was unsighted (ergo, not his fault). it was up to the touchie to get those things right.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by jdogscoop »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:18 am I hate to whinge about the referee but this is absurd at test level. There's 17 points in this and two yellow cards, and the last one would have won the match for Australia. I really hate to blame the referee, but the facts are as clear as they could possibly be.


1. Foot clearly in touch. Angus Gardner was the touch judge closest, but still ... clearly out.

Image


2. Australian defender held to make the hole for an AB try. Penalty and probable yellow card.

Image


3. Two blatant penalties in a much winning situation, 1. in-on-the-side; 2. hands-in-the-ruck. Clear penalty, yellow card.

Image
Image
Image
And now open the other eye and analyse the other team's indiscretions.
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shanky
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by shanky »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:09 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:50 pm He fell over.
I wasn't misremembering, he was on his feet playing the ball and only fell over when cleared out. There was another AB on the deck (though they did roll away). Your own image shows that when he fell over, the ball was miles away as he'd already played it.

It was a weird one though, I'm not entirely sure what the ref saw. You could argue Big Karl didn't release but that's not what the ref said. But hey ho, it's not like marginal penalties are unusual in rugby.
FWIW, I thought Karl was hard done by.

Cane's steal was more controversial than that. And probably Hooper's too. But the nature of these things is that it's hard to tell when exactly the ruck has formed. I don't sweat these ones, you have to get your cleanouts right
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

shanky wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:11 pm Fair enough. I've never seen that given though, have you?

Even if the ball was therefore 'out', and assuming the ref considered Tuaa'li to then be within his rights

Black 10 was offside and becomes involved in the play. That was the original offence....
I've seen that called yeah.

Mo'unga got back onside before he actually affected play.

Image
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

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Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:17 pm
shanky wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:11 pm Fair enough. I've never seen that given though, have you?

Even if the ball was therefore 'out', and assuming the ref considered Tuaa'li to then be within his rights

Black 10 was offside and becomes involved in the play. That was the original offence....
I've seen that called yeah.

Mo'unga got back onside before he actually affected play.

Image
gifs, or it didn't happen

:lol:
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Fat Old Git »

I often think we should have a rule where we can only discuss ref mistakes (or more often than not, perceived mistakes) that benefited your team. That might help avoid the usual whinge fests and the conspiracy theories that often come as part of the package.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by shanky »

Fat Old Git wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:28 pm I often think we should have a rule where we can only discuss ref mistakes (or more often than not, perceived mistakes) that benefited your team. That might help avoid the usual whinge fests and the conspiracy theories that often come as part of the package.
Yes, but...

This is a rugby forum, with passionate supporters.

This isn't 1850's, English regiment stuff.

So, I think you're a tad unrealistic in your wishes

I'm actually pleased that PR got some of its mojo back in the past 2 weeks. Plenty of spite
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

shanky wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:17 pm
gifs, or it didn't happen

:lol:
Image
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Clogs »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:18 am
3. Two blatant penalties in a much winning situation, 1. in-on-the-side; 2. hands-in-the-ruck. Clear penalty, yellow card.

Image
Image
Image

I am absolutely shocked that this sequence of play did not result in a penalty to Australia. They were in possession 7 meters out and this was some of the most obvious, like blind Freddy obvious, cheating and it happened in the open. If there was some sort of a text book on what to look for when awarding a penalty for not entering through the 'gate' and hands in the ruck, then this is the example that would be used.


Not going to mention the All Black knock on in the 192 minute mark of extra time deep in the Wallaby 22, where the Wallabies had the advantage from an All Black knock on and then they knocked on like 3 seconds and 22cm later, but by then advantage was over and All Blacks were able to play on.

Did I mention too the "play on you aren't getting a penalty" call for the collapsed All Black scrum and then 5 minutes later the All Blacks were handed the opportunity to kick a penalty for exactly the same thing?


Those home calls aside, I actually thought the ref had a great game. A 9/10 performance which is now dragged back to a 3/10 for that remarkably dodgy last 10 minutes of play...
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by shanky »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:39 pm
shanky wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:17 pm
gifs, or it didn't happen

:lol:
Image
You're suggesting you're a hunk like Chris Pratt?

Pretty bold bro. I had you more like Drax
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Eugenius »

towny wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:32 am I hate this shit. One thing to complain in the heat of a game, but afterwards you need to shake hands and accept things.

It’s rugby ffs.

Exactly !!!!

Quite frankly the lack of discipline at the breakdown by the Wallabies lost them the chance at what would have been a very deserved win .

It wasn’t the ref .
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Eugenius »

BBB wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pm Considering his many “we were robbed” claims after no such thing had happened,i could only imagine the state of Michael Cheika after that game,if he were still Wallaby coach. :lol:

Which is why Rennie is a far better coach and these wallabies a brighter future .

Blame what you can control , as he said they were beaten at the breakdown , fix that and only get better and better !
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:44 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:42 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:38 pm I try to ignore these threads but just to show that the green does get rubbed both ways:

1) Oz number ten takes out Jordie for the Korobeti try

2) Big Karl wrongly penalised for that last Oz penalty
The Oz 10 was the passer, he's allowed to run his line.
Karl fell the wrong side. It's penalty everytime whether it's your fault or not.
I may be misremembering, but I don't recall him falling over at all - he was on his feet playing the ball.
The ref told him he was OK but pinged them because the tackler hadn't rolled away fast enough. So basically if he hadn't stolen the ball the ref wouldn't have pinged the tackler for not rolling away fast enough. Looking at the replay it was clear the ref made a mistake and the tackler rolled away really quickly.

This penalty is being given a lot nowadays and it's now giving the tackler even less time to move if there is a jackler
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Kahu »

Technically Paul Williams had a poor game but in reality he whistled the game with aplomb. The new Wayne Barnes
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

shanky wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:56 pm
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:39 pm
shanky wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:17 pm
gifs, or it didn't happen

:lol:
Image
You're suggesting you're a hunk like Chris Pratt?

Pretty bold bro. I had you more like Drax
I am Groot.

(actually a yappy little prick, so perhaps Rocket).
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shanky
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by shanky »

I like Rocket

:thumbup:

Not as much as the green lady though...
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by terangi48 »

Still pics in a game are interesting.....depends what yuo want to see really.......

Image
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by wamberal »

We robbed ourselves by not taking the obvious, and relatively easy, field goal option after Hodge hit the posts.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

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Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:58 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:08 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:38 pm I try to ignore these threads but just to show that the green does get rubbed both ways:

1) Oz number ten takes out Jordie for the Korobeti try

2) Big Karl wrongly penalised for that last Oz penalty
I'm sure calls went both ways, but in this match, I don't think it was close to even when it was all said and done. Two AB trys were blatantly non-tries and the thing at the end was totally egregious in a match-winning situation. After Reece Hodge's monster kick that hit the post, the recovering AB player also clearly knocked the ball on. You were saying a week ago that you think 99.987% should be knock-ons. Is this one of the 0.013% that clearly went backwards? Hardly. Should have been a scrum in front of the posts. A litany of game changing refereeing errors that patently favoured the all blacks. That's just reality.

But I don't want to be seen as the whinger. I do believe what I said, but should have kept it to myself, although I can't put that cat back in the bag now. All I will say is that if and when the Wallabies get the benefit of a bunch of dodgy calls, I'd like to think I'll be the first one to say so. That's just how our game happens sometimes. This time we got the short end of the stick, but next time it might be the other way around.
Ok -

1 - The foot on the line was a bad miss. But it happens.

2 - The holding back wasn't 'egregious' it was just a miss. It wasn't just a miss. The Aussie players asked him to check it with the TMO and he refused Tons of tries feature infringements behind the ball that go missed, it's really not unusual.

3 - As I said above, immediately prior to the AB playing the ball on the deck, it was kicked by a non bound Aus player and went back into a player on the deck. Now that's accidental offside firstly, but it was also arguably out of the ruck when it then got kicked back in (which would mean it's able to be played). So while the ref missed the infringement, if he'd picked everything else up it wouldn't have even been an infringement.

4 - Yeah, he knocked on. And Aus recovered the ball - due to an AB recognising that playing it would be a potential offside. Aus didn't lose out at all on that call. They got the ball and played a bunch of phases - you think Aus should have got a multi phase advantage from a knock on?
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:21 amIt wasn't just a miss. The Aussie players asked him to check it with the TMO and he refused
I mean, that is just a missed call though. There isn't a challenge system in rugby and unless the ref or TMO has actually seen something live or in a replay they're not obligated to review something cause they're asked to.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Enzedder »

Thomas wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:33 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:38 pm I try to ignore these threads but just to show that the green does get rubbed both ways:

1) Oz number ten takes out Jordie for the Korobeti try
You might want to watch the footage again.

Ioane pushes JOC after he has passed the ball in a totally Ioane move. JOC stumbles into Jordie and they go down.

Jordie wouldn't have fallen over if Ioane hadn't been a dickhead.
Don't bring facts into it when I am debating Mog. He doesn't use them so why should I?
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by CrazyIslander »

Clogs wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:49 pm [
Did I mention too the "play on you aren't getting a penalty" call for the collapsed All Black scrum and then 5 minutes later the All Blacks were handed the opportunity to kick a penalty for exactly the same thing?

Yeah, that was definitely a sign that the ref was looking to nit pick with the Wobs but more lenient with the ABs.
A lot of scrums freekicks were for minor matters that didn't affect the actual scrum too.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

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Jay Cee Gee wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:28 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:21 amIt wasn't just a miss. The Aussie players asked him to check it with the TMO and he refused
I mean, that is just a missed call though. There isn't a challenge system in rugby and unless the ref or TMO has actually seen something live or in a replay they're not obligated to review something cause they're asked to.
We don't need a challenge system. You can explain that away all you want but a ref will normally ask the TMO to check that especially if the players are asking him to so he doesn't look like a mug. I was very surprised he refused.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Enzedder »

You start doing that and every game will last a fortnight.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:54 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:28 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:21 amIt wasn't just a miss. The Aussie players asked him to check it with the TMO and he refused
I mean, that is just a missed call though. There isn't a challenge system in rugby and unless the ref or TMO has actually seen something live or in a replay they're not obligated to review something cause they're asked to.
We don't need a challenge system. You can explain that away all you want but a ref will normally ask the TMO to check that especially if the players are asking him to so he doesn't look like a mug. I was very surprised he refused.
Eh, not that surprised tbh. Players whinge all the time, it's not that unusual for them to be ignored.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Fat Old Git »

I've yet to see a game where the ref has consulted the TMO every time a player has asked him to do so, or even a significant percentage of the time. So I'm not convinced that is how they normally do things.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:05 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:54 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:28 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:21 amIt wasn't just a miss. The Aussie players asked him to check it with the TMO and he refused
I mean, that is just a missed call though. There isn't a challenge system in rugby and unless the ref or TMO has actually seen something live or in a replay they're not obligated to review something cause they're asked to.
We don't need a challenge system. You can explain that away all you want but a ref will normally ask the TMO to check that especially if the players are asking him to so he doesn't look like a mug. I was very surprised he refused.
Eh, not that surprised tbh. Players whinge all the time, it's not that unusual for them to be ignored.
Sorry but first phase TRY with the opening of the red sea so close to the lineout is not normal. Something went horribly wrong and you know refs will normally check that when players are claiming obstruction
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by koroke hangareka »

Mr Mike wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:03 pm The most disturbing thing about all this is the response from the Wallabies set up and too many of their fans. From too robust and forwarding looking, too few whinges and and not enough deflection or denial. Hints at a truly worrying cultural change in Australian rugby. I much prefer the sound of a nasal moanfest in the morning.

It’s all been pretty quiet, too quiet.
Some interesting discussion has developed since this, and even an attempted pile-on by some of the neutrals, but yeah, way too calm and judicious by the Aussies. Even the OP isn't nearly hysterical enough for my taste.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Clogs »

Fat Old Git wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 am I've yet to see a game where the ref has consulted the TMO every time a player has asked him to do so, or even a significant percentage of the time. So I'm not convinced that is how they normally do things.
I think a ref will rarely do it in general play, but if they are checking a potential try then perhaps they should consider reviewing?
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Magpie26 »

terangi48 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:11 am Still pics in a game are interesting.....depends what yuo want to see really.......

Image
Oh dear.

There was a time a couple of years ago when you almost couldn't have a ruck without a penalty being awarded for a neck roll or having an arm wrapped around the oppositions neck (quite rightly imo). Players obviously learnt but it still happens but seems to be far less policed than it was.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Magpie26 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:47 am
terangi48 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:11 am Still pics in a game are interesting.....depends what yuo want to see really.......

Image
Oh dear.

There was a time a couple of years ago when you almost couldn't have a ruck without a penalty being awarded for a neck roll or having an arm wrapped around the oppositions neck (quite rightly imo). Players obviously learnt but it still happens but seems to be far less policed than it was.
:lol: ffs you guys are grasping at straws. That happens basically ever ruck and it's not a neck roll and it's not even close to blatantly entering into the ruck on the side and then blatantly scooping the ball backwards with you hand. It was as obvious and egregious as a professional foul can possibly be and was a yellow, penalty, every single day of the week.

Hey, so the referees are not perfect, they're human. Okay ... but at least be gracious enough to accept it.
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Re: Wallabies were absolutely robbed!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Nah, turns out the AB's were robbed.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... try-or-not

What say you, oh gracious one?
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