Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

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towny
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by towny »

:lol:
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Luciano
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Luciano »

ZuluBoy wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:36 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:52 pm SARU must be the words richest Union if they can afford to turn down 300,000,000 rand. (£14,000,000)

I am amazed at this decision.
All that money can't buy the Springboks another Pieter-Steph du Toit for the 2023 WC. He played 0 minutes and will only start getting game time next week in SA Super Rugby Unlocked. The Risk of injury to so many springboks in the same situation is too high. SA had the hardest lockdown in the world.
As a former player that severely injured himself for going undercooked into an amateur match, I fully agree with what you say. On the other hand, the timing of the withdrawal looks pretty suspect to say the least.

I don't know how the contracts were written, and which kind of contract resolution clauses it included, so I don't want to slam SA. But from the public relations perspective, it is complete mess. Maybe a SA could have tried to save face by playing some kind of parallel non-tests against the B/C sides of NZ/AUS plus AR? :idea:

It a terrible year and sport is not the most important thing now. But it is just sad to see the four partners of such a beautiful tournament to end up like this. :(
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by OomStruisbaai »

Time to bring back proper tours.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Ali's Choice »

shanky wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:31 pm apparently we worked closely with the splitters, trying to lay out timetables that enabled them to build up game time and get their act together

Instead, they chose the path of naked self-interest, while pretending to be the injured party

If there's one good thing to come out of this, it'll be that we don't (any longer) have to pretend that marinos is anything other than an agent of SARU. He'll probably be quite relieved as well.
I just wish the South Africans would stop pretending this is about player welfare and the "500 minutes". Scott Barrett is playing in tomorrow's test match having not played a single minute of Rugby since March.

This is all about the fact that the SARU couldn't field a team because more than half of their squad is based in Europe, and they cannot access these players. This is what happens when your eligibility laws are lax, and when your best players are based in the NH. They are at the mercy of the Nh clubs.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by kiwigreg369 »

I like that Rassie is a 400 min guy (see his press conference yesterday) but the original ‘high performance’ is 500.

If you’re going to make up shit at least get it consistent.
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Olo
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Olo »

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:23 pm Time to bring back proper tours.
I doubt anyone will have you for a while
ovalball
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ovalball »

Olo wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:20 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:23 pm Time to bring back proper tours.
I doubt anyone will have you for a while
Of course they will. This will all be forgotten very quickly - and matches against SA are money earners - none more than when they play NZ.
akann
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by akann »

A few years ago, Richie McCaw made his comeback in club rugby after being out of the game for months and then was close to being the MOTM against the Wallabies the next weekend. Granted it was the GOAT but still. This nonsense about 500 minutes is just a bs excuse Rassie pulled out of his arse, they were never going to come.
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Mr Mike
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Mr Mike »

Olo wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:20 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:23 pm Time to bring back proper tours.
I doubt anyone will have you for a while
with the right hotel cancellation policies perhaps..
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shanky
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by shanky »

There’s no way (going forward) anyone is going to book a SA tour without some financial guarantees in place beforehand.
The TV companies would insist on it.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Ali's Choice »

akann wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:42 pm A few years ago, Richie McCaw made his comeback in club rugby after being out of the game for months and then was close to being the MOTM against the Wallabies the next weekend. Granted it was the GOAT but still. This nonsense about 500 minutes is just a bs excuse Rassie pulled out of his arse, they were never going to come.
The couldn't come if they wanted to. In the SARU's own press release that admitted that 24 squad members are based in the NH and their clubs weren't prepared to release them. This is what happens when you have relaxed eligibility criteria. The Springboks rely on the goodwill and charity of the wealthy NH club bosses.
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

Japan haven't played any rugby as yet. Springboks that are in Japan are Willie Le Roux, Franco Mostert, Kwagga Smith and Malcolm Marx. All four had played 0 minutes.
They are all injury risks. They all played in the World Cup. Willie and Franco started in the World Cup final and Marx came on after 15 mins.
Seven Springboks are starting in their first game tomorrow for the Stormers in the SA Super Rugby Unlocked. That include the World Cup Winners front row of Frans Malherbe and Steven Kitshof.
Last edited by ZuluBoy on Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Ali's Choice »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:55 am Japan haven't played any rugby as yet. Springboks that are in Japan are Willie Le Roux, Franco Mostert, Kwagga Smith and Malcolm Marx. All four had played 0 minutes.
They are all injury risks. They all played in the World Cup. Willie and Franco started in the World Cup final and Marx came on after 15 mins.
Seven Springboks starting in their first game tomorrow for the Stormers in the SA Super Rugby Unlocked. That include the World Cup Winner front row of Frans Malherbe and Steven Kitshof.
That's what happens when you encourage your players to play abroad. You lose access and control. It appears that the SARU have only just worked this out.
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guy smiley
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by guy smiley »

It’s just excuse after excuse with these muppets.
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Zakar
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Zakar »

I look forward to the Saffas exciting new annual tournament with Namibia, Zimbabwe and Burkina Faso.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Ali's Choice »

Zakar wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:13 am I look forward to the Saffas exciting new annual tournament with Namibia, Zimbabwe and Burkina Faso.
Surely Kenya have done enough to be considered for inclusion?
ZuluBoy
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

SA is different than other countries in that government apply a quota % law in sport. Not everyone can have a job in sport in SA. Therefore it is good players can be accommodated in overseas clubs and that they too can look after their families which would not have been possible for every player irrespective the colour in SA.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Ali's Choice »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:24 am SA is different than other countries in that government apply a quota % law in sport. Not everyone can have a job in sport in SA. Therefore it is good players can be accommodated in overseas clubs and that they too can look after their families which will not have been possible for everyone irrespective the colour in SA.
Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this post. Your best players don't play for NH clubs because of quotas. They play in the NH because they get paid more. The South African system worked fine for a while, but has been brutally exposed by covid-19. You can't access your players, and that's why you can't assemble a Springbok squad.
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

Go and read Jake White's autobiography Black & White then. The Day before a test at the Royale Bafokeng stadium he was ordered to change 4 players of colour. In came Solly Tibilyake out was Schalk Burger, In came Thinus Linnee out was Jaque Fourie. In came Ricky Januarie out was Fourie du Preez aswell as a frontrow change!
He still managed the win the test the next day though!
Last edited by ZuluBoy on Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Ali's Choice »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:30 am Go and read Jake White's autobiography Black & White then. a Day before a test at Royale Bafokeng stadium he was ordered to change 4 players of colour. In came Solly Tibilyake out was Schalk Burger, In came Thinus Linnee out was Jaque Fourie. In came Ricky Januarie out was Fourie du Preez.
He still managed the win the test the next day though!
What the f**k has Jake White's book got to do with anything? Your elite Springboks do not play in the NH because of quotas. They play in the NH because they get paid lots more money to do so. Everyone know this but you.
ZuluBoy
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

you call it bs, i refer you to a valid source
Last edited by ZuluBoy on Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

Y they do get paid lots of buck, not disputing that. In SA though the same player might have been without a job because a team in SA can only accommodate 7 players of a colour code
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guy smiley
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by guy smiley »

I call it an excuse.

You muppets can’t help yourselves.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Ali's Choice »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:36 am Y they do get paid lots of buck, not disputing that. In SA though the same player might have been without a job because a team in SA can only accommodate 7 players of a colour code
Sowhat you're saying is that RWC winning Springboks wouldn't get a contract in South Africa because of quotas? Are you serious?
ZuluBoy
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

I call it exactly the opposite
SA players can help themselves by making money overseas. a Sporting career is too short to be limited
Jay Cee Gee
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:44 am I call it exactly the opposite
SA players can help themselves by making money overseas. a Sporting career is too short to be limited
That's the case everywhere but other SH unions recognise that allowing overseas selections removes a massive incentive for players to stay.
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UncleFB
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Post by UncleFB »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:36 am Y they do get paid lots of buck, not disputing that. In SA though the same player might have been without a job because a team in SA can only accommodate 7 players of a colour code
Are you still beating this drum, without your transformed players you wouldn't have won the RWC.
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

Schoolboys in SA are signed at an early age by French clubs that have offices in some of SA's schools. This is with the consent of their parents
Last edited by ZuluBoy on Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by sunnybanana »

Allowing Springboks to play overseas has worked well for South Africa. All key players have arrangements in place with their clubs, allowing them to be released for Bok duty under normal circumstances. Clearly we’re in a highly extra-ordinary situation at the moment and it’s no surprise that clubs aren’t prepared to let their players go. Hardly invalidates the policy.
With regard to keeping hold of players - Australia has essentially already conceded the inevitability (see their new foreign based player selection policy) and you’d have to be incredibly ignorant to believe it’s not going to become more of a debate in NZ given the increasing numbers of young, quality players they are losing too.
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shanky
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by shanky »

I’d be genuinely interested to know which of the RWC-winning Springboks were these ‘quota players’, because from where I sat, they all looked like they deserved to be there.
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Post by UncleFB »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:14 am Schoolboys in SA are signed at an early age by French clubs that have offices in some of SA's schools. This is with the consent of their parents who know their boy's chances are limited in SA as a professional rugby player because of a quota% restriction. There are over 400 players from SA in France. The flood to play overseas would have been stopped quite dramatically if SA had a merit based system in sport.
:lol: Man, I must miss seeing all those 400 black and coloured players who have denied all these guys in France a spot when watching Super Rugby and the Currie Cup. Also, I'd love to see where you got these figures for 400 players and whether they have been surveyed for reasons why they went overseas. A recent survey of Saffas in France had transformation as a distant 4th as to why Saffas go to France. The big one being $$ obviously.

Also, I wonder what excuse we can use for all of our players overseas?
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Post by Jay Cee Gee »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 am=

Also, I wonder what excuse we can use for all of our players overseas?
That 1986 Privy Council ruling that the Treaty of Waitangi establishes rangatiratanga over 2/3 of the Hurricanes backline and that Charlie Ngatai is Maori Jesus?
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UncleFB
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Post by UncleFB »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:39 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 am=

Also, I wonder what excuse we can use for all of our players overseas?
That 1986 Privy Council ruling that the Treaty of Waitangi establishes rangatiratanga over 2/3 of the Hurricanes backline and that Charlie Ngatai is Maori Jesus?
:lol:

The recent 2010s update established a one non Maori AB halfback every few years - Drummond got it recently, denying Hall a test cap, hopefully Fakatava gets it in the future. Although he could employ a name change to Whakatawa to get around it.
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Post by ZuluBoy »

a bit more than 2000s by now but covid could put the brakes on.
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UncleFB
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Post by UncleFB »

FFS dude, that listed that 300 had played in France over a 10 year period, NZ probably had 300 in that period as well.
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by ZuluBoy »

Y article is from yr 2000 s
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Olo
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by Olo »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:14 am Schoolboys in SA are signed at an early age by French clubs that have offices in some of SA's schools. This is with the consent of their parents
Welcome to our world. For us it’s the league clubs. We also have at least a whole 23 of offshore test players, most of whom are not eligible by our rules.
Whatever the case is in SA it is due to the local regulations past and present and political situation past and present.

We all have our hurdles.
Last edited by Olo on Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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UncleFB
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Post by UncleFB »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:05 am Y article is from yr 2000 s
What are you wanting to say here?
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Re: Untrustworthy Saffas slink away from RC

Post by JB1981 »

ZuluBoy wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:05 am Y article is from yr 2000 s
What are your thoughts on the naming of Super Rugby Unblocked? You took great offence at Super Rugby being used in the naming of NZ’s competition and now South Africa have gone with what could be argued to be the most confrontational name.
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