Teacher beheaded in France

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Gwenno
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Gwenno »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:25 pm
Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:59 am I don’t think that the non Muslim world is powerful or united enough to eradicate the religion, nor repatriate its followers. Pointing out to non Muslims that that the religion is nonsense and barbaric isn’t particularly helpful, as we already know that, and the act of pointing it out doesn’t change the mind of the die hards, but it certainly inflames them.
I disagree. Speaking honestly about it is useful, it does help and encourage people make brave decisions to break free, and it does have a cumilitave effect over time. It is helpful, even if it comes with howls of protest, paradoxically both from the fringe secular left and the fringe religious right.

I would say that speaking about it in a spittle-flinging, vitriolic type manner is not helpful. But nobody is suggesting that. The problem is that in the present anti-scientific, anti-rational political landscape (on both sides of politics), we're about things such as banning the world's most pre-eminent evolutionary biologist from speaking in Western, secular Universities because he is critical of Islam. That is certainly unhelpful, backwards, counter-productive and stupid.
Terrorists don’t fight fair, don’t listen, and do not represent a single nation. It is probably true that in the long run it will take a long slow process of rationality winning through argument, but many will be killed and tortured on the way, inevitably. Being right doesn’t mean that you are safe, and this is why Dawkins was banned. Not fair definitely but also understandable. If I am ever critical of religion out loud, I am very careful and courteous when I do it. It definitely takes bravery to change things, and it sickens me to hear about the recent attack - but we shouldn’t be surprised.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:09 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:25 pm
Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:59 am I don’t think that the non Muslim world is powerful or united enough to eradicate the religion, nor repatriate its followers. Pointing out to non Muslims that that the religion is nonsense and barbaric isn’t particularly helpful, as we already know that, and the act of pointing it out doesn’t change the mind of the die hards, but it certainly inflames them.
I disagree. Speaking honestly about it is useful, it does help and encourage people make brave decisions to break free, and it does have a cumilitave effect over time. It is helpful, even if it comes with howls of protest, paradoxically both from the fringe secular left and the fringe religious right.

I would say that speaking about it in a spittle-flinging, vitriolic type manner is not helpful. But nobody is suggesting that. The problem is that in the present anti-scientific, anti-rational political landscape (on both sides of politics), we're about things such as banning the world's most pre-eminent evolutionary biologist from speaking in Western, secular Universities because he is critical of Islam. That is certainly unhelpful, backwards, counter-productive and stupid.
Terrorists don’t fight fair, don’t listen, and do not represent a single nation. It is probably true that in the long run it will take a long slow process of rationality winning through argument, but many will be killed and tortured on the way, inevitably. Being right doesn’t mean that you are safe, and this is why Dawkins was banned. Not fair definitely but also understandable. If I am ever critical of religion out loud, I am very careful and courteous when I do it. It definitely takes bravery to change things, and it sickens me to hear about the recent attack - but we shouldn’t be surprised.
You call them terrorists. They call themselves martys for everything that is good and worth fighting and dying for. They consider themselves honourable and courageous warriors of light.

Don't forget that.

Its not understandable that Dawkins was banned. Its complete nonsensical, cowardly and social justice pandering that trumps logic and reason.

I don't mean to sound combative here. I appreciate and respect your calm and reasoned discussion and don't wholly disagree, I just wanted to comment on parts of it.
Last edited by Mog The Almighty on Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mdaclarke
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by mdaclarke »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... acher.html

New Statesman writer (I imagine freelance and now former) condemns police for the murder of the suspect. No condemnation of the beheading itself.

His strange defence is as follows

https://twitter.com/DanaNawzar?ref_src= ... r%5Eauthor

"@MailOnline
has published an article on me full of lies. Everything except the tweet screenshot is made up. Funny part is they say they couldn’t reach me for a comment while I talked 20 minutes straight to the lazy reporter. Sad state of British journalism."

The tweet condemning the murder has been deleted by twitter

as was this tweet

https://twitter.com/ldnjunk/status/1317 ... 40/photo/1

I note the tweet before reads

"Bullying Muslim children in the name of teaching them free speech has to stop. Showing caricatures to Muslims kids disrespecting Prophet Muhammed is child abuse. Macron’s ass will be on fire if a teacher promoted Holocaust denial in front of Jewish kids to ‘promote free speech’."

Quite what Jewish people have to do with it.

If this guy and the other guy below are representatives of moderate muslims then if anything my view of them is hardening. It almost feels like those trying to get us to understand why we should tiptoe around their extreme intolerance of any criticism or satire of their religion (which is something implicit in western values, the freedom to criticise and satire) are just useful idiots who fail to realise that they are just as despised as the rest of us non believers.

https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1317350932129132544
Last edited by mdaclarke on Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
bimboman
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:09 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:25 pm
Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:59 am I don’t think that the non Muslim world is powerful or united enough to eradicate the religion, nor repatriate its followers. Pointing out to non Muslims that that the religion is nonsense and barbaric isn’t particularly helpful, as we already know that, and the act of pointing it out doesn’t change the mind of the die hards, but it certainly inflames them.
I disagree. Speaking honestly about it is useful, it does help and encourage people make brave decisions to break free, and it does have a cumilitave effect over time. It is helpful, even if it comes with howls of protest, paradoxically both from the fringe secular left and the fringe religious right.

I would say that speaking about it in a spittle-flinging, vitriolic type manner is not helpful. But nobody is suggesting that. The problem is that in the present anti-scientific, anti-rational political landscape (on both sides of politics), we're about things such as banning the world's most pre-eminent evolutionary biologist from speaking in Western, secular Universities because he is critical of Islam. That is certainly unhelpful, backwards, counter-productive and stupid.
Terrorists don’t fight fair, don’t listen, and do not represent a single nation. It is probably true that in the long run it will take a long slow process of rationality winning through argument, but many will be killed and tortured on the way, inevitably. Being right doesn’t mean that you are safe, and this is why Dawkins was banned. Not fair definitely but also understandable. If I am ever critical of religion out loud, I am very careful and courteous when I do it. It definitely takes bravery to change things, and it sickens me to hear about the recent attack - but we shouldn’t be surprised.


The people the crocodile eats last approach.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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has published an article on me full of lies. Everything except the tweet screenshot is made up. Funny part is they say they couldn’t reach me for a comment while I talked 20 minutes straight to the lazy reporter. Sad state of British journalism."
Published by a journal that celebrated their lies successfully destroying roger scroton.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Yeah, man - fudge teachers.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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If the people that banned Dawkins were frightened of being roasted on Twitter then shame on them. If they were frightened of being roasted for real, like the Jordanian pilot then I wouldn’t criticise them - but the truth I don’t know the facts.
Of course terrorists call themselves freedom fighters, and you’re a fool if you think terrorism isn’t effective. I think of these people as with the impulse control that my sons had when they were adolescent, but with access to a lot of grown up weapons, aided by a network. They are very dangerous and I don’t envy whoever has the job of preventing them. It is going to take decades of highly diplomatic people criticising Islamic terrorism while not criticising Islam, and criticising religion in general while not criticising Islam in particular.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:52 pm If the people that banned Dawkins were frightened of being roasted on Twitter then shame on them. If they were frightened of being roasted for real, like the Jordanian pilot then I wouldn’t criticise them

...

It is going to take decades of highly diplomatic people criticising Islamic terrorism while not criticising Islam, and criticising religion in general while not criticising Islam in particular.
Obviously we're banning it instead.

Also I don't entirely agree with the second bit. You've got to call it out, political correctness can f-ck off.

If you're not directly dressing women in black bags with slits for eyes yourself (whether you're a man or a woman who is so mind-f-cked by the doctrine you genuinely believe it's a good idea) then you're "moderately" supporting it. How many "moderate" muslims have a strong ideological opposition to this? Not many I would guess. There's young women activists in Iran right no being "dissapeared" and imprisoned for protesting those religious laws. It should be renounced in no uncertain terms by anyone with a correctly functioning moral compass. If those girls who worn born into it, and have the most to lose, have the commendable and immense courage to do that, then those us who were not indoctrinated into that kind of nosnsense have no excuse at all.
Last edited by Mog The Almighty on Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mdaclarke
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Farva wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:47 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 am
Farva wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:22 am MOG, are you complaining about the Swedish envoy to Iran following their customs when in their country? We want people coming to our country to do that. That is a pretty heavy premise of this thread.
Don’t be absurd.
If that was true, it would be good. No hijabs and women dressed in black bags in either Australia or Sweden, it's a blatant sign of female oppression. We do that, really? Good.

I'm pretty sure none of those Swedush women were Islamic. Dressing up in Islamic modesty suites out of "respect" is simply respecting iron-aged sexism.

And as bimbo rightly points out, it wasn't even common in Iran until the Theocratic Islamists took over.

They were going to another country that has a pretty clear position on head dress.

I don’t agree with it but it’s their country. The Swedish went there. Therefore, they wear the head dress.

In Australia, no one cares whether you wear a head dress. It’s someone’s choice.
By that logic if say France said it was unacceptable for a woman to wear a headdress you would expect any visitor to that country to comply without complaint.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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mdaclarke wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:59 pm
Farva wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:47 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 am
Farva wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:22 am MOG, are you complaining about the Swedish envoy to Iran following their customs when in their country? We want people coming to our country to do that. That is a pretty heavy premise of this thread.
Don’t be absurd.
If that was true, it would be good. No hijabs and women dressed in black bags in either Australia or Sweden, it's a blatant sign of female oppression. We do that, really? Good.

I'm pretty sure none of those Swedush women were Islamic. Dressing up in Islamic modesty suites out of "respect" is simply respecting iron-aged sexism.

And as bimbo rightly points out, it wasn't even common in Iran until the Theocratic Islamists took over.

They were going to another country that has a pretty clear position on head dress.

I don’t agree with it but it’s their country. The Swedish went there. Therefore, they wear the head dress.

In Australia, no one cares whether you wear a head dress. It’s someone’s choice.
By that logic if say France said it was unacceptable for a woman to wear a headdress you would expect any visitor to that country to comply without complaint.
And they should also execute those how insult the prophet, blashemy or renounce the faith. At least while they're in that country. Don't be a racist.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by mdaclarke »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:01 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:59 pm
Farva wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:47 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 am
Farva wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:22 am MOG, are you complaining about the Swedish envoy to Iran following their customs when in their country? We want people coming to our country to do that. That is a pretty heavy premise of this thread.
Don’t be absurd.
If that was true, it would be good. No hijabs and women dressed in black bags in either Australia or Sweden, it's a blatant sign of female oppression. We do that, really? Good.

I'm pretty sure none of those Swedush women were Islamic. Dressing up in Islamic modesty suites out of "respect" is simply respecting iron-aged sexism.

And as bimbo rightly points out, it wasn't even common in Iran until the Theocratic Islamists took over.

They were going to another country that has a pretty clear position on head dress.

I don’t agree with it but it’s their country. The Swedish went there. Therefore, they wear the head dress.

In Australia, no one cares whether you wear a head dress. It’s someone’s choice.
By that logic if say France said it was unacceptable for a woman to wear a headdress you would expect any visitor to that country to comply without complaint.
And they should also execute those how insult the prophet, blashemy or renounce the faith. At least while they're in that country. Don't be a racist.
I will never understand the Liberal/Progressive/SJW blind spot/moral relativism/double standards when it comes to Islam. They go out of their way to excuse behaviour they would condemn without question if committed by any other group
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:54 pm
Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:52 pm If the people that banned Dawkins were frightened of being roasted on Twitter then shame on them. If they were frightened of being roasted for real, like the Jordanian pilot then I wouldn’t criticise them

...

It is going to take decades of highly diplomatic people criticising Islamic terrorism while not criticising Islam, and criticising religion in general while not criticising Islam in particular.
Obviously we're banning it instead.

Also I don't entirely agree with the second bit. You've got to call it out, political correctness can f-ck off.

If you're not directly dressing women in black bags with slits for eyes yourself (whether you're a man or a woman who is so mind-f-cked by the doctrine you genuinely believe it's a good idea) then you're "moderately" supporting it. How many "moderate" muslims have a strong ideological opposition to this? Not many I would guess. There's young women activists in Iran right no being "dissapeared" and imprisoned for protesting those religious laws. It should be renounced in no uncertain terms by anyone with a correctly functioning moral compass. If those girls who worn born into it, and have the most to lose, have the commendable and immense courage to do that, then those us who were not indoctrinated into that kind of nosnsense have no excuse at all.
You may be right, but countries will struggle to present a united front, with Islam apologists trying to undermine, and when the inevitable happens with another suicide bomber, where do you retaliate? The bomber of course is dead, and was often a native of where the bombing happened. Do you take on every Muslim country in the world? Does India count? Do you do it alone, or hope that everyone else in the West helps? Will this produce their desired Armageddon?
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:52 pm If the people that banned Dawkins were frightened of being roasted on Twitter then shame on them. If they were frightened of being roasted for real, like the Jordanian pilot then I wouldn’t criticise them - but the truth I don’t know the facts.
Of course terrorists call themselves freedom fighters, and you’re a fool if you think terrorism isn’t effective. I think of these people as with the impulse control that my sons had when they were adolescent, but with access to a lot of grown up weapons, aided by a network. They are very dangerous and I don’t envy whoever has the job of preventing them. It is going to take decades of highly diplomatic people criticising Islamic terrorism while not criticising Islam, and criticising religion in general while not criticising Islam in particular.


Appeasement hasn’t worked so far, our elites (except Macron to his credit) , have actively taken islamists view point.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:21 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:54 pm
Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:52 pm If the people that banned Dawkins were frightened of being roasted on Twitter then shame on them. If they were frightened of being roasted for real, like the Jordanian pilot then I wouldn’t criticise them

...

It is going to take decades of highly diplomatic people criticising Islamic terrorism while not criticising Islam, and criticising religion in general while not criticising Islam in particular.
Obviously we're banning it instead.

Also I don't entirely agree with the second bit. You've got to call it out, political correctness can f-ck off.

If you're not directly dressing women in black bags with slits for eyes yourself (whether you're a man or a woman who is so mind-f-cked by the doctrine you genuinely believe it's a good idea) then you're "moderately" supporting it. How many "moderate" muslims have a strong ideological opposition to this? Not many I would guess. There's young women activists in Iran right no being "dissapeared" and imprisoned for protesting those religious laws. It should be renounced in no uncertain terms by anyone with a correctly functioning moral compass. If those girls who worn born into it, and have the most to lose, have the commendable and immense courage to do that, then those us who were not indoctrinated into that kind of nosnsense have no excuse at all.
You may be right, but countries will struggle to present a united front, with Islam apologists trying to undermine, and when the inevitable happens with another suicide bomber, where do you retaliate? The bomber of course is dead, and was often a native of where the bombing happened. Do you take on every Muslim country in the world? Does India count? Do you do it alone, or hope that everyone else in the West helps? Will this produce their desired Armageddon?
Personally, I strongly believe the solution is education, rationality, science. Bomb them with books and logic.

All that is pretty hard in today's political landscape which is why I'm so strongly opposed to SJW type stuff.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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I reckon porn and Bacon Mog.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by shereblue »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 am
Farva wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:22 am MOG, are you complaining about the Swedish envoy to Iran following their customs when in their country? We want people coming to our country to do that. That is a pretty heavy premise of this thread.
Don’t be absurd.
If that was true, it would be good. No hijabs and women dressed in black bags in either Australia or Sweden, it's a blatant sign of female oppression. We do that, really? Good.

I'm pretty sure none of those Swedush women were Islamic. Dressing up in Islamic modesty suites out of "respect" is simply respecting iron-aged sexism.

And as bimbo rightly points out, it wasn't even common in Iran until the Theocratic Islamists took over.
Your "Theocratic Islamists" took over as a result of a popular revolution. Not sure of the quality of the democratic elections since but, lovers of sovereignty like Bimbo, will see them as an improvement over an autocracy installed by a foreign power.

The foreign powers that saw the Shah installed in WW2 and later, in 1953, vested with absolute power with democracy being ditched, included the UK on both occasions. Amazingly, it was not so much as to ensure there would be less woke respect given to hijabs but more about oil :shock:

I struggle to understand how political imprisonment and torture on a massive scale could have been tolerated under a secular regime installed by the USA and the UK. It's a crying shame we ever lost control of these ignoramuses and their natural resources.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Your "Theocratic Islamists" took over as a result of a popular revolution. Not sure of the quality of the democratic elections since but, lovers of sovereignty like Bimbo, will see them as an improvement over an autocracy installed by a foreign power.

“Iran, a model of modern democracy “.


Said no one ever.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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We did screw the pooch with Mossadegh, although the pooch was always for screwing. America was never going to allow a socialist government to prosper in Iran, democracy or no democracy.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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I want it to be education, rationality, and science too. We still can be diplomatic about it though, if, for no other reason, for consistency. ALL religions are barmy, and over the years atrocities have been done in their names too, so I don’t want Islam to feel singled out.Islam is the world leader at the moment, I’ll admit. The young earth creationists are keeping quiet at the moment.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Education, rationality and science are usually presented diplomatically, if for no other reason than that's how you change people's minds.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:37 pm I reckon porn and Bacon Mog.
:lol:
Gwenno
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Gwenno »

6.Jones wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:14 pm Education, rationality and science are usually presented diplomatically, if for no other reason than that's how you change people's minds.
Agreed. I wonder if threats of repatriation and advice to leave your outdated mediaeval opinions at the door is considered diplomatic?
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:27 pm
6.Jones wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:14 pm Education, rationality and science are usually presented diplomatically, if for no other reason than that's how you change people's minds.
Agreed. I wonder if threats of repatriation and advice to leave your outdated mediaeval opinions at the door is considered diplomatic?
As an answer to the celebration of someone beng beheaded in the street for showing some shit, unfunny cartoons?

How do we go about it when we still have bloody bishops in the HoL and Williamson dead-set on expanding religious privilege in our kids schooling? Still have religious exceptions allowed in anti-discrimination laws? Still have the scottish parliament trying to extend blasphemy laws to cover all the special people of faith?
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Appeasement will do fudge all. You can ban poxy cartoons but these nutters will always find an excuse to blow you up or chop your head off. The genies out of the bottle with radical Islam in the west and honestly there's no getting it back in.

In answer to the question of "what should be done", honestly the best thing we can do it stop financing and arming groups of maniacs in the middle east. Overthrowing Assad, Saddam and Gadaffi seems like a good idea in principle but in practice we're making the world a more dangerous place. How many times do these terrorists in Europe have some link to Iraq or Syria? Virtually all of them.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

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Get rid of the HoL? I’d like to get rid of state religion, and it’s head too, but one step at a time.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Mog The Almighty »

New Guy 2 wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:07 pm Appeasement will do fudge all. You can ban poxy cartoons but these nutters will always find an excuse to blow you up or chop your head off. The genies out of the bottle with radical Islam in the west and honestly there's no getting it back in.

In answer to the question of "what should be done", honestly the best thing we can do it stop financing and arming groups of maniacs in the middle east. Overthrowing Assad, Saddam and Gadaffi seems like a good idea in principle but in practice we're making the world a more dangerous place. How many times do these terrorists in Europe have some link to Iraq or Syria? Virtually all of them.
Absolutely. Without a doubt it's a huge kettle of shit, the doctrine is only one part of it. There's a lot that goes into it, that gives apologists some faux argument that it has nothing to do with Islam, but the reality is that the doctrine of Islam is a crucial ingredient. Throw Buddhism in there instead of Islam and you simply will not get the same results.

Queue some SJW pointing out violence by Buddhists. Yes, it happens, but it's totally against the doctrine, it happens, very selmonly, in spite of the docrtine, not encouraged by it, and if you pretend we have to worry about Buddhists beheading teachers over cartoons or flying planes into building in the same way we do Islamists you're just being absurdly dishonet. This despite the gross unjust treatment of Buddhists at various times throughout history at the hands of foreign super powers.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Harveys »

MungoMan wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:17 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:53 am
AND-y wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:35 am So you'd agree white nationalist loner attacks are indicative of a problem within "white society"? You can throw whatever narrative on it you like, young men decide to go all murdery for a whole host of reasons.
Geezus Christ it's got nothing to do with race. The guy who did this was within "white society". He was a Chechen living in France. This is just so telling of the apologetic mindset. Islam is widely practised in the middle east, where many people have brown coloured skin. So every time a Muslim does something horrific the appropriate response to not be racist must be to point out that white people do bad things too. That's just so inane.

What it has got to do with is people getting their brain scrambled by a book that in no uncertain terms teaches a violent, repugnunt, retributive, iron-aged moral ideology. And making excuses or kidding oneself about it does not help anybody.

Does horrific violent retribution happen for other reasons too? Yes, but I'll call them out too. Are all Muslims violent? No, but it's still a problem within Islam.
Politics would be the other reason. Or the actual reason.

It's well-known Islam has changed less than some other major religions. What has changed is a whole bunch of people being able to make a half-credible argument that Islam tends to breed violent extremism or terrorism or whatever term your choose for non-state use of deadly force.

And yes, that is a change. For much of the last century, the same argument would have fallen on deaf ears in terms of the broader public; and with good reason.

Communists were terrorists. Various sorts of nationalists and irredentists were terrorists. But Muslims as Muslims? Yeah. Nah.

FF to now, and Islam - particularly of the modern Salafist variety - has become the clubhouse of choice for all manner of folk who have a major case of fúck you going on in respect of the world in general or their country in particular. In respect of the former, consider for a moment how many converts to Islam have been involved in terrorist acts then consider what role if any 'Islamic society' had to play in getting them to where they ended up.

In many ways Salafist jihadism is playing an analogous role to that played by Maoism decades back, viz. as rallying point for disaffected or, in some cases, genuinely downtrodden people of varying sorts. (Admittedly, some Maoists merely formed political parties and barely threw a rock in anger but others went to to become benchmark murderous nutcases like Sendero Luminosa). And note: the Chinese government of those long-gone days never had a fraction of the resources to promote an ideology as KSA has to promote its favoured form of skyfairyism.

It's politics in dressup.
Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Harveys »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:04 pm Isn't the bible full of similar shit and didn't Christians used to be pretty brutal because if it. Surely It's the people who are the problem.
The most common punishment for blasphemers was capital punishment through hanging or stoning, justified by the words of Leviticus 24:13–16. . Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him.
https://youtu.be/FQ5YU_spBw0?t=14

Jesus himself was put to death for blasphemy.

Blasphemy = don’t challenge my long held beliefs.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Yer Man »

Gwenno wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:09 pm Terrorists don’t fight fair, don’t listen, and do not represent a single nation. It is probably true that in the long run it will take a long slow process of rationality winning through argument, but many will be killed and tortured on the way, inevitably. Being right doesn’t mean that you are safe, and this is why Dawkins was banned. Not fair definitely but also understandable. If I am ever critical of religion out loud, I am very careful and courteous when I do it. It definitely takes bravery to change things, and it sickens me to hear about the recent attack - but we shouldn’t be surprised.
How long do you think it will take in America?
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MungoMan
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by MungoMan »

Heymans wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:51 pm
MungoMan wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:51 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:36 am
Heymans wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am And to all the islam apologists I say this:

there is nothing in islamism that isn't in islam. These guys aren't inventing anything, it's all in the book. There is no moderate muslim, like there is no moderate pregnant women. You either believe the quran is the literal word of god, in case you're in the loony camp, or you don't.
th only difference between moderates and extremists, between islam and islamism is action, as in actually killing miscreants.
There is no ideological separation,
or watershed or anything like that. There is nothing moderate about believing a book is the literal word of god, if that was about literally anything else it would be classified as a mental illness.
I don't give a shit that the majority of muslims are law abiding citizen, so is most of everyone else. Only muslims behead people for shit like that in France right now. These people are a cancer and they can get f**ked with their stupid shit.
x(
This is monumentally stupid shit, in particular the stuff in bold. In effect, it is saying that what people do is not all that material, the problem is people are thinking wrong thoughts.

One difficulty arising here is that most rational people truly do think others' actions are a damned sight more important than others' thoughts, since actions can be observed whereas thoughts not leading to actions cannot. One dead teacher vs. no dead teacher. Yeah, there may be a fella out there somewhere thinking about killing him or at least thinking the bugger deserves to die, but what to do? Mind-reading isn't exactly mature tech ...

The other difficulty relates to the explanatory power of the argument that the Quran leads to terrorism and other large-scale noxious shit as naturally and automatically as beer leads to a swollen bladder. That can be tested against observed actions as well. And it fails the test. I'm old enough to recall when fúck-all people would think 'terrorist' or 'extremist' when another said Muslim, for the simple reason that there was fúck-all Islamic terrorism actually occurring. For example, Chechens weren't cutting heads off in France or letting off bombs in the US.

Were they reading a different Quran?

As I said in another post, politics - the actions of the powerful and not-so-powerful in the real world - is the driver and modern-day jihadism is the vehicle. There an easy-to-grasp explanation for why Chechnya began producing rather too many dangerous and fúcked-up people after a particular point in time, and that point in time wasn't the first edition of the Quran hit the shelves. It was when the first Russian bombs and shells began hitting the Chechen capital.
Do yuo have any factual counter argument? Apart from saying its horseshit and you little heart being sad?
Show me the extremist quran. It doesn't exist, its the same one the "moderates" are using. Have the extremists invented concepts that aren't in the quran? No, the quran is already very clear about apostates,christians, jews and, worse than dogs, miscreants. Hve the extremists gone beyond what the book say? Again, no.
Give me you factual counter arguments or go fudge yourself.

It fails the test, you say? Really? There has been pretty much continous war and violence in the Islamic cultural area since the religion was born. Even today, you will find that pretty much all corners of the islamic world are either in a war of guerilla/terroist activity. There isn't ONE democratic muslim country. NOT one. You know why? Because ISLAM IS A VIOLENT, backwards RELIGION.
Again for the 3rd time, its in the book, the guys aren't inventing anything.
Here's you - screaming, waving your arms around and resorting to all-caps - yet my 'little heart is sad'? Not hard to pick which one of us is getting a tad emotional ...

As for factual counter-arguments, you've proven you wouldn't recognise one if it leaped from the long grass and bit you on the bum. It is a simple historical truth that Islamic terrorism is a relatively recent phenomenon whereas the Quran has been around for a wee while.

Also, you may want to investigate how Indonesia and Malaysia are governed.
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Muttonbirds
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Muttonbirds »

A few more details are coming out.

Seems the cartoons were shown in class. One student protested and was disciplined. A Facebook campaign was started by her father which escalated to demands the school dismiss the teacher. Looks like the campaign was joined/fueled by extremists. School started mediation between themselves and parents. School thought it was all sorted.

It wasn't.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Harveys »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:54 am
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:19 pm My issues is, why does the left today have such a blind spot for the religion? I guess in many left wingers, because the right post 9/11 open take on the religion, they feel instinctively the need to oppose the right wing position, hence the rather contradictory acceptance of Islam and blindness to it's influence while espousing liberal views and opposing anyone else who doesn't have them.
If there was some some iron-aged, ultra-conservative, sexist, homophobic, violent political doctrine that was spread amoung all cultures on earth equally, and you said, "but don't worry, only a minority of the people who believe that ideology actually enact the violence that it recommends, most of them ignore that part", I think the left would be absolutely scathing in their attack of that ideology.

Can you imagine these excuses in the political realm:

"Well they shouldn't have drawn a cartoon of that politician then if they didn't want to be beheaed"

"You know there are other political systems that have used violence in the past!"

"Most people who vote for that iron-aged, conservative, sexist, violent, homophobic political ideology are moderates. They guy who gives me me coffee in the morning, for example, seems like a lovely chap"

"Not ALL people who vote for that politician behead people!"

"You know there are some quite beautiful aspects to that iron-aged, conservative, sexist, violent, homophobic political ideology that you're just ignoring"
For someone who likes to clap on about nuance when it suits you, your continued insistence that fundamentalists are the only “honest” Muslims because in your view only a completely literal interpretation can be taken from religious scripture is funny but not surprising given your bias.

You mindlessly regurgitate Sam Harris (I know this because I’ve listened to him and you repeat the same talking points) the same way religious folk mindlessly regurgitate their ideology all the while completely unaware of your own shadow.

It’s amusing.
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MungoMan
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by MungoMan »

bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:36 am
Were they reading a different Quran?

As I said in another post, politics - the actions of the powerful and not-so-powerful in the real world - is the driver and modern-day jihadism is the vehicle. There an easy-to-grasp explanation for why Chechnya began producing rather too many dangerous and fúcked-up people after a particular point in time, and that point in time wasn't the first edition of the Quran hit the shelves. It was when the first Russian bombs and shells began hitting the Chechen capital.
Well they’re certainly being given a very different interpretation.

I’m on your page it’s a recruitment tool.

I’m not on your page that the wider community hasn’t also got some responsibility. And also the Islam brotherhood invented version of “islamaphobia” should be accepted.
I commented in an earlier post about islamic society having bugger-all to do with acts of terror committed by converts. I'm not arguing that Islamic communities invariably play no part in young Muslim men and women deciding to take up arms, so to speak, either as sole agents or in concert with others. Local, national and geopolitical events tend to affect entire communities, not just individuals, so how a particular community responds - the differing currents in the community - is going to have some effect on individual members.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Harveys wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:58 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:54 am
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:19 pm My issues is, why does the left today have such a blind spot for the religion? I guess in many left wingers, because the right post 9/11 open take on the religion, they feel instinctively the need to oppose the right wing position, hence the rather contradictory acceptance of Islam and blindness to it's influence while espousing liberal views and opposing anyone else who doesn't have them.
If there was some some iron-aged, ultra-conservative, sexist, homophobic, violent political doctrine that was spread amoung all cultures on earth equally, and you said, "but don't worry, only a minority of the people who believe that ideology actually enact the violence that it recommends, most of them ignore that part", I think the left would be absolutely scathing in their attack of that ideology.

Can you imagine these excuses in the political realm:

"Well they shouldn't have drawn a cartoon of that politician then if they didn't want to be beheaed"

"You know there are other political systems that have used violence in the past!"

"Most people who vote for that iron-aged, conservative, sexist, violent, homophobic political ideology are moderates. They guy who gives me me coffee in the morning, for example, seems like a lovely chap"

"Not ALL people who vote for that politician behead people!"

"You know there are some quite beautiful aspects to that iron-aged, conservative, sexist, violent, homophobic political ideology that you're just ignoring"
For someone who likes to clap on about nuance when it suits you, your continued insistence that fundamentalists are the only “honest” Muslims because in your view only a completely literal interpretation can be taken from religious scripture is funny but not surprising given your bias.

You mindlessly regurgitate Sam Harris (I know this because I’ve listened to him and you repeat the same talking points) the same way religious folk mindlessly regurgitate their ideology all the while completely unaware of your own shadow.

It’s amusing.
If you don't think the Koran is intended to be taken literally, you're simply fooling yourself. Allah is not a moderate. The Koran is not codified. When they said chop the hands off of a theif, they meant literally chop the hands off of a theif, not whatever someone might want to acrobatically interpret that to mean to suite their 2020 agenda. If you choose to think they were talking about something else "in special code" then you're both stupid for believing in iron-aged supersition and lying to yourself.

The moral of the story is this: Abrahamic religion is a bunch of archaic horseshit that doesn't fit in an enlightened, educated culture. Surprise.

"It's amusing". Really? :uhoh: I don't think you're amused. I thinking you're seething. Because you're a small minded man that doesn't want his delusional ideologiy about "all religions are equal" or some other similar such patentable horse-shit to be challenged.

Many more people than Sam Harris have said similair things before I have. Virtually anyone who speaks honestly about the subject has said these things. Harris was not the original and I will not be the last. It's the obvious f-cking reality after all. So just f-ck off with your inane, condescending dribble you laughable twit.

I'll tell you what is "amusing": the fact that you think one would have to mindlessly parrot anybody else to figure out what is oh-so-obviously, self-evidently true. One needn't be a genius nor a neuroscientist to figure this shit out mate. I can only imagine how scrambled your brains must be.
Last edited by Mog The Almighty on Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:43 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by bimboman »

MungoMan wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:38 am
bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:36 am
Were they reading a different Quran?

As I said in another post, politics - the actions of the powerful and not-so-powerful in the real world - is the driver and modern-day jihadism is the vehicle. There an easy-to-grasp explanation for why Chechnya began producing rather too many dangerous and fúcked-up people after a particular point in time, and that point in time wasn't the first edition of the Quran hit the shelves. It was when the first Russian bombs and shells began hitting the Chechen capital.
Well they’re certainly being given a very different interpretation.

I’m on your page it’s a recruitment tool.

I’m not on your page that the wider community hasn’t also got some responsibility. And also the Islam brotherhood invented version of “islamaphobia” should be accepted.
I commented in an earlier post about islamic society having bugger-all to do with acts of terror committed by converts. I'm not arguing that Islamic communities invariably play no part in young Muslim men and women deciding to take up arms, so to speak, either as sole agents or in concert with others. Local, national and geopolitical events tend to affect entire communities, not just individuals, so how a particular community responds - the differing currents in the community - is going to have some effect on individual members.

I’m more for the rejection of “political islam” and much of the associated islamaphobia. It empowers these lunatics.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Heymans »

MungoMan wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:41 pm
Heymans wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:51 pm
MungoMan wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:51 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:36 am
Heymans wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am And to all the islam apologists I say this:

there is nothing in islamism that isn't in islam. These guys aren't inventing anything, it's all in the book. There is no moderate muslim, like there is no moderate pregnant women. You either believe the quran is the literal word of god, in case you're in the loony camp, or you don't.
th only difference between moderates and extremists, between islam and islamism is action, as in actually killing miscreants.
There is no ideological separation,
or watershed or anything like that. There is nothing moderate about believing a book is the literal word of god, if that was about literally anything else it would be classified as a mental illness.
I don't give a shit that the majority of muslims are law abiding citizen, so is most of everyone else. Only muslims behead people for shit like that in France right now. These people are a cancer and they can get f**ked with their stupid shit.
x(
This is monumentally stupid shit, in particular the stuff in bold. In effect, it is saying that what people do is not all that material, the problem is people are thinking wrong thoughts.

One difficulty arising here is that most rational people truly do think others' actions are a damned sight more important than others' thoughts, since actions can be observed whereas thoughts not leading to actions cannot. One dead teacher vs. no dead teacher. Yeah, there may be a fella out there somewhere thinking about killing him or at least thinking the bugger deserves to die, but what to do? Mind-reading isn't exactly mature tech ...

The other difficulty relates to the explanatory power of the argument that the Quran leads to terrorism and other large-scale noxious shit as naturally and automatically as beer leads to a swollen bladder. That can be tested against observed actions as well. And it fails the test. I'm old enough to recall when fúck-all people would think 'terrorist' or 'extremist' when another said Muslim, for the simple reason that there was fúck-all Islamic terrorism actually occurring. For example, Chechens weren't cutting heads off in France or letting off bombs in the US.

Were they reading a different Quran?

As I said in another post, politics - the actions of the powerful and not-so-powerful in the real world - is the driver and modern-day jihadism is the vehicle. There an easy-to-grasp explanation for why Chechnya began producing rather too many dangerous and fúcked-up people after a particular point in time, and that point in time wasn't the first edition of the Quran hit the shelves. It was when the first Russian bombs and shells began hitting the Chechen capital.
Do yuo have any factual counter argument? Apart from saying its horseshit and you little heart being sad?
Show me the extremist quran. It doesn't exist, its the same one the "moderates" are using. Have the extremists invented concepts that aren't in the quran? No, the quran is already very clear about apostates,christians, jews and, worse than dogs, miscreants. Hve the extremists gone beyond what the book say? Again, no.
Give me you factual counter arguments or go fudge yourself.

It fails the test, you say? Really? There has been pretty much continous war and violence in the Islamic cultural area since the religion was born. Even today, you will find that pretty much all corners of the islamic world are either in a war of guerilla/terroist activity. There isn't ONE democratic muslim country. NOT one. You know why? Because ISLAM IS A VIOLENT, backwards RELIGION.
Again for the 3rd time, its in the book, the guys aren't inventing anything.
Here's you - screaming, waving your arms around and resorting to all-caps - yet my 'little heart is sad'? Not hard to pick which one of us is getting a tad emotional ...

As for factual counter-arguments, you've proven you wouldn't recognise one if it leaped from the long grass and bit you on the bum. It is a simple historical truth that Islamic terrorism is a relatively recent phenomenon whereas the Quran has been around for a wee while.

Also, you may want to investigate how Indonesia and Malaysia are governed.
You absolute retard. Of course I'm emotional a teached was f**king beheaded you stupiud cunt.

AGain, no factual counter argument. There is none. The quran has been around for a wee while and yes there's been violence all the while. Islamic terrorism is not a "relativelt recent phenomenon" you cretin, war of conquest is literally a feature of it. I don't think there is one countrey were islam was adopted pacifically. Now, do you have a counter factual argument to that, or gog et f**ked with a rusty spoon.
But your coffe maker mate. Of course.
Oh and Indonesia, really? The country with virginity tests for female police officers?
Malaysia? The country with official racial segregation laws and death penalty for apostasy? Really, thats the best you could come up with?

Stay out of this one mate, your Oz tinted kumbaya naive ignorance is embarrassing.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Muttonbirds »

Heymans wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:51 amStay out of this one mate, your Oz tinted kumbaya naive ignorance is embarrassing.
:lol: What does Newcastle's finest have to say about this?
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MungoMan
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by MungoMan »

Heymans wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:51 am
MungoMan wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:41 pm
Heymans wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:51 pm
MungoMan wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:51 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:36 am

x(
This is monumentally stupid shit, in particular the stuff in bold. In effect, it is saying that what people do is not all that material, the problem is people are thinking wrong thoughts.

One difficulty arising here is that most rational people truly do think others' actions are a damned sight more important than others' thoughts, since actions can be observed whereas thoughts not leading to actions cannot. One dead teacher vs. no dead teacher. Yeah, there may be a fella out there somewhere thinking about killing him or at least thinking the bugger deserves to die, but what to do? Mind-reading isn't exactly mature tech ...

The other difficulty relates to the explanatory power of the argument that the Quran leads to terrorism and other large-scale noxious shit as naturally and automatically as beer leads to a swollen bladder. That can be tested against observed actions as well. And it fails the test. I'm old enough to recall when fúck-all people would think 'terrorist' or 'extremist' when another said Muslim, for the simple reason that there was fúck-all Islamic terrorism actually occurring. For example, Chechens weren't cutting heads off in France or letting off bombs in the US.

Were they reading a different Quran?

As I said in another post, politics - the actions of the powerful and not-so-powerful in the real world - is the driver and modern-day jihadism is the vehicle. There an easy-to-grasp explanation for why Chechnya began producing rather too many dangerous and fúcked-up people after a particular point in time, and that point in time wasn't the first edition of the Quran hit the shelves. It was when the first Russian bombs and shells began hitting the Chechen capital.
Do yuo have any factual counter argument? Apart from saying its horseshit and you little heart being sad?
Show me the extremist quran. It doesn't exist, its the same one the "moderates" are using. Have the extremists invented concepts that aren't in the quran? No, the quran is already very clear about apostates,christians, jews and, worse than dogs, miscreants. Hve the extremists gone beyond what the book say? Again, no.
Give me you factual counter arguments or go fudge yourself.

It fails the test, you say? Really? There has been pretty much continous war and violence in the Islamic cultural area since the religion was born. Even today, you will find that pretty much all corners of the islamic world are either in a war of guerilla/terroist activity. There isn't ONE democratic muslim country. NOT one. You know why? Because ISLAM IS A VIOLENT, backwards RELIGION.
Again for the 3rd time, its in the book, the guys aren't inventing anything.
Here's you - screaming, waving your arms around and resorting to all-caps - yet my 'little heart is sad'? Not hard to pick which one of us is getting a tad emotional ...

As for factual counter-arguments, you've proven you wouldn't recognise one if it leaped from the long grass and bit you on the bum. It is a simple historical truth that Islamic terrorism is a relatively recent phenomenon whereas the Quran has been around for a wee while.

Also, you may want to investigate how Indonesia and Malaysia are governed.
You absolute retard. Of course I'm emotional a teached was f**king beheaded you stupiud cunt.

AGain, no factual counter argument. There is none. The quran has been around for a wee while and yes there's been violence all the while. Islamic terrorism is not a "relativelt recent phenomenon" you cretin, war of conquest is literally a feature of it. I don't think there is one countrey were islam was adopted pacifically. Now, do you have a counter factual argument to that, or gog et f**ked with a rusty spoon.
But your coffe maker mate. Of course.
Oh and Indonesia, really? The country with virginity tests for female police officers?
Malaysia? The country with official racial segregation laws and death penalty for apostasy? Really, thats the best you could come up with?

Stay out of this one mate, your Oz tinted kumbaya naive ignorance is embarrassing.
Still screaming, I see. Still waving your arms about. And then screaming a bit more.

:lol:

You're equating 'wars of conquest' from centuries ago with terrorism in the last four decades or so while ignoring the period in between. You're pretending two countries governed by elected representatives aren't democracies because they've passed stupid and obnoxious laws (how long did it take to google those, btw?). In summary, you're denying actual history and simple facts because ...reasons.

Clearly engaging with you in good faith is wasted effort. Onto ignore you go. Spend the rest of your life screaming and shitting your pants whenever you pass a kebab shop.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by eldanielfire »

Well, German courts aren't f**king about and tip toeing around the issue:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/1 ... gniter-rhr

German court rules Muslim who refused to shake woman's hand should not receive citizenship
The man had an otherwise impeccable record of successful integration, having received the highest score on his citizenship test

A German court has ruled that a Muslim doctor should not be granted citizenship after he refused to shake hands with the woman presenting him with his naturalisation certificate.

According to the administrative court of Baden-Württemberg, the Lebanese man had forgone his right to become German because his refusal to shake the bureaucrat’s hand was evidence that he saw her as “posing the threat of sexual seduction.”

The judges explained that obtaining German citizenship was dependent on the applicant being able to demonstrate that he lived according to the values set out in the German constitution, which enshrines sexual equality.

A handshake “has a long tradition of signalling greeting or saying farewell that exists irrespective of social status or sex,” the ruling stated. “Although there are other recognised greetings in Germany, such as kissing or a 'high five,' the handshake holds a special importance” because of its formal use in the completion of a business transaction and as a signal of agreement in certain courts, the judges added.

The incident occurred in 2015 at a citizenship ceremony that was supposed to be a simple formality after the man had obtained the highest possible score in his citizenship test, an exam that probes how well immigrants understand German history and its democratic values.

When the female bureaucrat offered her hand and he declined to shake it, she refused to hand over his certificate. The 40-year-old has an otherwise impeccable record of successful integration. He moved to the country as a language student in 2002 before qualifying as a doctor and then working his way up to the position of consultant physician at a hospital in southern Germany.

To support his case, he said that he had made a promise to his wife never to touch another woman. But the court remained unswayed, describing his actions as “fundamentalist” and reflective of “a Salafist worldview.”

The judges were also unimpressed by a statement he made to the effect that he would not shake anyone’s hand in the future, be it a male or a female.

Making clear that the handshake would outlive current pandemic restrictions, the judges said that the man would have to use the gesture in the future in order to carry out important societal functions. It added that it saw his concession on not shaking anyone’s hand as a purely tactical move.

The man now has the chance to dispute the ruling at the federal level, his last chance to have the decision overturned.

Hand shaking has proven to be one of the most sensitive issues in the integration of a growing number of conservative Muslim migrants in Europe. Authorities in several countries now penalise those who refuse to use the gesture.

In 2016 education authorities in Switzerland imposed fines up to €4,000 (£3,600) on parents who refused to shake teachers’ hands, arguing that teachers have a right to demand a handshake.

Danish law has required people to shake the hands of administrators at citizenship ceremonies since early 2019. Critics there have called it “un-Danish” to force a local custom on someone, rather than encouraging them to conform.

The dispute over handshakes in Germany comes after a school in Berlin was forced to apologise after one of its teachers called an imam “a misogynist” when he failed to shake her hand in 2016.
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Re: Teacher beheaded in France

Post by Heymans »

MungoMan wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:40 am
Heymans wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:51 am
MungoMan wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:41 pm
Heymans wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:51 pm
MungoMan wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:51 am
This is monumentally stupid shit, in particular the stuff in bold. In effect, it is saying that what people do is not all that material, the problem is people are thinking wrong thoughts.

One difficulty arising here is that most rational people truly do think others' actions are a damned sight more important than others' thoughts, since actions can be observed whereas thoughts not leading to actions cannot. One dead teacher vs. no dead teacher. Yeah, there may be a fella out there somewhere thinking about killing him or at least thinking the bugger deserves to die, but what to do? Mind-reading isn't exactly mature tech ...

The other difficulty relates to the explanatory power of the argument that the Quran leads to terrorism and other large-scale noxious shit as naturally and automatically as beer leads to a swollen bladder. That can be tested against observed actions as well. And it fails the test. I'm old enough to recall when fúck-all people would think 'terrorist' or 'extremist' when another said Muslim, for the simple reason that there was fúck-all Islamic terrorism actually occurring. For example, Chechens weren't cutting heads off in France or letting off bombs in the US.

Were they reading a different Quran?

As I said in another post, politics - the actions of the powerful and not-so-powerful in the real world - is the driver and modern-day jihadism is the vehicle. There an easy-to-grasp explanation for why Chechnya began producing rather too many dangerous and fúcked-up people after a particular point in time, and that point in time wasn't the first edition of the Quran hit the shelves. It was when the first Russian bombs and shells began hitting the Chechen capital.
Do yuo have any factual counter argument? Apart from saying its horseshit and you little heart being sad?
Show me the extremist quran. It doesn't exist, its the same one the "moderates" are using. Have the extremists invented concepts that aren't in the quran? No, the quran is already very clear about apostates,christians, jews and, worse than dogs, miscreants. Hve the extremists gone beyond what the book say? Again, no.
Give me you factual counter arguments or go fudge yourself.

It fails the test, you say? Really? There has been pretty much continous war and violence in the Islamic cultural area since the religion was born. Even today, you will find that pretty much all corners of the islamic world are either in a war of guerilla/terroist activity. There isn't ONE democratic muslim country. NOT one. You know why? Because ISLAM IS A VIOLENT, backwards RELIGION.
Again for the 3rd time, its in the book, the guys aren't inventing anything.
Here's you - screaming, waving your arms around and resorting to all-caps - yet my 'little heart is sad'? Not hard to pick which one of us is getting a tad emotional ...

As for factual counter-arguments, you've proven you wouldn't recognise one if it leaped from the long grass and bit you on the bum. It is a simple historical truth that Islamic terrorism is a relatively recent phenomenon whereas the Quran has been around for a wee while.

Also, you may want to investigate how Indonesia and Malaysia are governed.
You absolute retard. Of course I'm emotional a teached was f**king beheaded you stupiud cunt.

AGain, no factual counter argument. There is none. The quran has been around for a wee while and yes there's been violence all the while. Islamic terrorism is not a "relativelt recent phenomenon" you cretin, war of conquest is literally a feature of it. I don't think there is one countrey were islam was adopted pacifically. Now, do you have a counter factual argument to that, or gog et f**ked with a rusty spoon.
But your coffe maker mate. Of course.
Oh and Indonesia, really? The country with virginity tests for female police officers?
Malaysia? The country with official racial segregation laws and death penalty for apostasy? Really, thats the best you could come up with?

Stay out of this one mate, your Oz tinted kumbaya naive ignorance is embarrassing.
Still screaming, I see. Still waving your arms about. And then screaming a bit more.

:lol:

You're equating 'wars of conquest' from centuries ago with terrorism in the last four decades or so while ignoring the period in between. You're pretending two countries governed by elected representatives aren't democracies because they've passed stupid and obnoxious laws (how long did it take to google those, btw?). In summary, you're denying actual history and simple facts because ...reasons.

Clearly engaging with you in good faith is wasted effort. Onto ignore you go. Spend the rest of your life screaming and shitting your pants whenever you pass a kebab shop.
I'm busy today but don't think I'm gonna let this huge pile of shit stand. I gotta say I think its pretty distatsteful what you're standing for, teaming up with human scum. Pretty unedifying but of course in Oz its all very theoretical yeah. History started at Gallipolli, the wolrd ends in SE Asia.
Since you're apparently too retarded to check wikipedia on your own (or is it the moral grandstanding? I suppose the latter), I'll educate you on the spead of islam.
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