Planet Rugby Forum

MungoMan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:17 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:53 am

AND-y wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:35 am So you'd agree white nationalist loner attacks are indicative of a problem within "white society"? You can throw whatever narrative on it you like, young men decide to go all murdery for a whole host of reasons.

Geezus Christ it's got nothing to do with race. The guy who did this was within "white society". He was a Chechen living in France. This is just so telling of the apologetic mindset. Islam is widely practised in the middle east, where many people have brown coloured skin. So every time a Muslim does something horrific the appropriate response to not be racist must be to point out that white people do bad things too. That's just so inane.

What it has got to do with is people getting their brain scrambled by a book that in no uncertain terms teaches a violent, repugnunt, retributive, iron-aged moral ideology. And making excuses or kidding oneself about it does not help anybody.

Does horrific violent retribution happen for other reasons too? Yes, but I'll call them out too. Are all Muslims violent? No, but it's still a problem within Islam.

Politics would be the other reason. Or the actual reason.

It's well-known Islam has changed less than some other major religions. What has changed is a whole bunch of people being able to make a half-credible argument that Islam tends to breed violent extremism or terrorism or whatever term your choose for non-state use of deadly force.

And yes, that is a change. For much of the last century, the same argument would have fallen on deaf ears in terms of the broader public; and with good reason.

Communists were terrorists. Various sorts of nationalists and irredentists were terrorists. But Muslims as Muslims? Yeah. Nah.

FF to now, and Islam - particularly of the modern Salafist variety - has become the clubhouse of choice for all manner of folk who have a major case of fúck you going on in respect of the world in general or their country in particular. In respect of the former, consider for a moment how many converts to Islam have been involved in terrorist acts then consider what role if any 'Islamic society' had to play in getting them to where they ended up.

In many ways Salafist jihadism is playing an analogous role to that played by Maoism decades back, viz. as rallying point for disaffected or, in some cases, genuinely downtrodden people of varying sorts. (Admittedly, some Maoists merely formed political parties and barely threw a rock in anger but others went to to become benchmark murderous nutcases like Sendero Luminosa). And note: the Chinese government of those long-gone days never had a fraction of the resources to promote an ideology as KSA has to promote its favoured form of skyfairyism.

It's politics in dressup.

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:55 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:43 am

Druid wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:39 am

Showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in class was probably not a good idea.

The Islamic world’s worst enemy is Islam. Anyone who thinks Islam is not the worse religion by far needs a history lesson.

The worst religion. What the fudge are you talking about?

Well there has to be one worse one right? Its not as if they're all equal and teaching the same thing.

I would argue that the worst one would probably be Norse Pagan Viking religion that encouraged bloody warfare and death in battle as the only way to enter Valhalla. But that one is gone now. They did treat women better than Islamists though.

In terms of the modern most popular religions, Islam does seem to be the worst as far as inciting violent retribution and gross violations against women and homosexuals etc.

There has to be one "winner".

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

Farva wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:31 pm

Heymans wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am And to all the islam apologists I say this:

there is nothing in islamism that isn't in islam. These guys aren't inventing anything, it's all in the book. There is no moderate muslim, like there is no moderate pregnant women. You either believe the quran is the literal word of god, in case you're in the loony camp, or you don't.
th only difference between moderates and extremists, between islam and islamism is action, as in actually killing miscreants.
There is no ideological separation, or watershed or anything like that. There is nothing moderate about believing a book is the literal word of god, if that was about literally anything else it would be classified as a mental illness.
I don't give a shit that the majority of muslims are law abiding citizen, so is most of everyone else. Only muslims behead people for shit like that in France right now. These people are a cancer and they can get f**ked with their stupid shit.

I have absolutely no issue with saying this was an act of Islamic terrorism. The perpetrator did it because they were an extremist who wanted to get justification for their religion. I hope they are tried and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And ditto to anyone who supported them.

But this post is complete horseshit.
The bloke I bought a coffee off today (and served me a couple of times a week) who is An Egyptian Muslim, or my barber who is a Kuwaiti Muslim, are certainly moderates.
Your post is bigoted, nothing else.

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:59 am

Salient wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:49 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:03 pm Showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in class was probably not a good idea.

What f**king planet do you live on!!!!!!

I think after the Charlie Hebdo massacre and numerous other troubles around white Euro-cartoonists indulging in Islamophobia for profit people might want to think twice before holding up Charlie Hebdo as some sort of paragon of free speech. I mean what are you trying to defend here? Just leave it alone for a while.

New Guy 2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:39 pm

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:59 am

Salient wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:49 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:03 pm Showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in class was probably not a good idea.

What f**king planet do you live on!!!!!!

I think after the Charlie Hebdo massacre and numerous other troubles around white Euro-cartoonists indulging in Islamophobia for profit people might want to think twice before holding up Charlie Hebdo as some sort of paragon of free speech. I mean what are you trying to defend here? Just leave it alone for a while.

If a group of people go around chopping heads off for drawing cartoons, the correct solution isn't to stop drawing cartoons.

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

bimboman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:40 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

A reformation eventually.

merry! wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:47 pm

bimboman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:40 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

A reformation eventually.

don't think there's ever been a peaceful reformation.

course, we'll all be praying for a peaceful one (even the godless).

merry! wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:30 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

someone above made the point that believing their book was the literal word of god would be regarded as mental illness in any other context.

reckon flying planes into buildings, cutting off heads for cartoons and the rest of it is all the proof you need that the nutters who do this sort of thing are, indeed, nutters.

so bang 'em away at the shrink's pleasure if they even think about acting out their delusions. that's the civilised way of dealing with it.


otherwise it's probably give them the bullet, or demand they swear fealty, or ask them to leave.....all pretty medieval, but if they're gonna insist on being medieval..

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:58 pm

merry! wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:30 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

someone above made the point that believing their book was the literal word of god would be regarded as mental illness in any other context.

reckon flying planes into buildings, cutting off heads for cartoons and the rest of it is all the proof you need that the nutters who do this sort of thing are, indeed, nutters.

so bang 'em away at the shrink's pleasure if they even think about acting out their delusions. that's the civilised way of dealing with it.


otherwise it's probably give them the bullet, or demand they swear fealty, or ask them to leave.....all pretty medieval, but if they're gonna insist on being medieval..

The trouble is that generally this is an after the fact conclusion, and most of them die either from the act itself or are killed by security forces. Yes, you could ‘neutralise’ those that you believe are going to commit a terrorist act (the ludicrous situation when someone was arrested for being a suicide bomber), or did you mean these measures for ALL Muslims? Good luck with that.

Showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in class was probably not a good idea.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:15 pm

Showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in class was probably not a good idea.

That's the difference between getting what you deserve and getting what you asked for

Farva wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:31 pm

Heymans wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am And to all the islam apologists I say this:

there is nothing in islamism that isn't in islam. These guys aren't inventing anything, it's all in the book. There is no moderate muslim, like there is no moderate pregnant women. You either believe the quran is the literal word of god, in case you're in the loony camp, or you don't.
th only difference between moderates and extremists, between islam and islamism is action, as in actually killing miscreants.
There is no ideological separation, or watershed or anything like that. There is nothing moderate about believing a book is the literal word of god, if that was about literally anything else it would be classified as a mental illness.
I don't give a shit that the majority of muslims are law abiding citizen, so is most of everyone else. Only muslims behead people for shit like that in France right now. These people are a cancer and they can get f**ked with their stupid shit.

I have absolutely no issue with saying this was an act of Islamic terrorism. The perpetrator did it because they were an extremist who wanted to get justification for their religion. I hope they are tried and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And ditto to anyone who supported them.

But this post is complete horseshit.
The bloke I bought a coffee off today (and served me a couple of times a week) who is An Egyptian Muslim, or my barber who is a Kuwaiti Muslim, are certainly moderates.
Your post is bigoted, nothing else.

Heymans wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:20 pm

Farva wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:31 pm

Heymans wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am And to all the islam apologists I say this:

there is nothing in islamism that isn't in islam. These guys aren't inventing anything, it's all in the book. There is no moderate muslim, like there is no moderate pregnant women. You either believe the quran is the literal word of god, in case you're in the loony camp, or you don't.
th only difference between moderates and extremists, between islam and islamism is action, as in actually killing miscreants.
There is no ideological separation, or watershed or anything like that. There is nothing moderate about believing a book is the literal word of god, if that was about literally anything else it would be classified as a mental illness.
I don't give a shit that the majority of muslims are law abiding citizen, so is most of everyone else. Only muslims behead people for shit like that in France right now. These people are a cancer and they can get f**ked with their stupid shit.

I have absolutely no issue with saying this was an act of Islamic terrorism. The perpetrator did it because they were an extremist who wanted to get justification for their religion. I hope they are tried and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And ditto to anyone who supported them.

But this post is complete horseshit.
The bloke I bought a coffee off today (and served me a couple of times a week) who is An Egyptian Muslim, or my barber who is a Kuwaiti Muslim, are certainly moderates.
Your post is bigoted, nothing else.

Do yuo have a refutation of my post? CAn you show me where it is wrong? You cant because my post is entirely factual. I'll say it again ,there is nothing is islamism that isn't in Islam. Nothing. The line is between sane people, and believers of magic, NOT between moderates and extremsists, they're on the same team. Moderates are the handle of the knife, extremists are the blade.

Ask you bloke what he thinks of jews? Of gays? Ask him if his daughter can marry a non muslim. Ask him what he thinks of western women. Lets find out how "moderate" he is.

Its a moral obligation to be bigoted towards such a vile, crass ideology.

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:27 pm

Heymans wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:20 pm

Farva wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:31 pm

Heymans wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am And to all the islam apologists I say this:

there is nothing in islamism that isn't in islam. These guys aren't inventing anything, it's all in the book. There is no moderate muslim, like there is no moderate pregnant women. You either believe the quran is the literal word of god, in case you're in the loony camp, or you don't.
th only difference between moderates and extremists, between islam and islamism is action, as in actually killing miscreants.
There is no ideological separation, or watershed or anything like that. There is nothing moderate about believing a book is the literal word of god, if that was about literally anything else it would be classified as a mental illness.
I don't give a shit that the majority of muslims are law abiding citizen, so is most of everyone else. Only muslims behead people for shit like that in France right now. These people are a cancer and they can get f**ked with their stupid shit.

I have absolutely no issue with saying this was an act of Islamic terrorism. The perpetrator did it because they were an extremist who wanted to get justification for their religion. I hope they are tried and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And ditto to anyone who supported them.

But this post is complete horseshit.
The bloke I bought a coffee off today (and served me a couple of times a week) who is An Egyptian Muslim, or my barber who is a Kuwaiti Muslim, are certainly moderates.
Your post is bigoted, nothing else.

Do yuo have a refutation of my post? CAn you show me where it is wrong? You cant because my post is entirely factual. I'll say it again ,there is nothing is islamism that isn't in Islam. Nothing. The line is between sane people, and believers of magic, NOT between moderates and extremsists, they're on the same team. Moderates are the handle of the knife, extremists are the blade.

Ask you bloke what he thinks of jews? Of gays? Ask him if his daughter can marry a non muslim. Ask him what he thinks of western women. Lets find out how "moderate" he is.

Its a moral obligation to be bigoted towards such a vile, crass ideology.

I absolutely agree with you that the vast majority of people hugely under-estimate the beliefs of "the friendly religious person" they know from work or whatever. But to be fair, there are obviously a lot of truly "moderate" muslims out there of course. I still agree with your initial post, because that kind of moderation is so at odds with the actual doctrine that it's basically a completely different religion, but of course they exist in great numbers. It's far less honest than fundamentalism, but also far less dangerous. In saying that, I also agree with your comment that moderates are the handle of the knife. Moderation gives cover to extremism and also--as is obvious in this very thread, let alone wider society--makes it very hard to critisize religious faith in a broarder sense lest people "get offended" and call you a bigot.

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:41 pm

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:15 pm

Showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in class was probably not a good idea.

That's the difference between getting what you deserve and getting what you asked for

In this case it was neither.

merry! wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:08 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:55 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:43 am

Druid wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:39 am

Showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in class was probably not a good idea.

The Islamic world’s worst enemy is Islam. Anyone who thinks Islam is not the worse religion by far needs a history lesson.

The worst religion. What the fudge are you talking about?

Well there has to be one worse one right? Its not as if they're all equal and teaching the same thing.

I would argue that the worst one would probably be Norse Pagan Viking religion that encouraged bloody warfare and death in battle as the only way to enter Valhalla. But that one is gone now. They did treat women better than Islamists though.

In terms of the modern most popular religions, Islam does seem to be the worst as far as inciting violent retribution and gross violations against women and homosexuals etc.

There has to be one "winner".

careful now, some would argue that's our 'cultural heritage' round here..

The most common punishment for blasphemers was capital punishment through hanging or stoning, justified by the words of Leviticus 24:13–16. . Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:04 pm Isn't the bible full of similar shit and didn't Christians used to be pretty brutal because if it. Surely It's the people who are the problem.

The most common punishment for blasphemers was capital punishment through hanging or stoning, justified by the words of Leviticus 24:13–16. . Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him.

https://youtu.be/FQ5YU_spBw0?t=14

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:27 pm

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:04 pm Isn't the bible full of similar shit and didn't Christians used to be pretty brutal because if it. Surely It's the people who are the problem.

The most common punishment for blasphemers was capital punishment through hanging or stoning, justified by the words of Leviticus 24:13–16. . Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him.

https://youtu.be/FQ5YU_spBw0?t=14

Yes, Christianity has it's own history of violence. However, considering the religion's central figure was a sandal-wearing pacifist who taught to love your enemies and turn thy cheek, that religion was a lot easier to reform than one whose central figure was a campaigning warlord spreading the faith by the sword and preaching violent retribution and conversion.

Santa wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:54 pm

merry! wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:08 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:55 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:43 am

Druid wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:39 am

The Islamic world’s worst enemy is Islam. Anyone who thinks Islam is not the worse religion by far needs a history lesson.

The worst religion. What the fudge are you talking about?

Well there has to be one worse one right? Its not as if they're all equal and teaching the same thing.

I would argue that the worst one would probably be Norse Pagan Viking religion that encouraged bloody warfare and death in battle as the only way to enter Valhalla. But that one is gone now. They did treat women better than Islamists though.

In terms of the modern most popular religions, Islam does seem to be the worst as far as inciting violent retribution and gross violations against women and homosexuals etc.

There has to be one "winner".

careful now, some would argue that's our 'cultural heritage' round here..

The Normans bro.

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Bogbunny wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:12 pm

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Amen Bro.

Fuk off to Saudi, Sudan or Yemen if you want to live in the middle ages.

CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:10 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm With a non appeasement hat on, what is the next step then?

Unfortunately, the centre within the Muslim world is on the Right. In order to pull it to a more tolerant left, you'd have to engage in actions that will have Muslims advocating for a more tolerant society.

You can do this by using the army/police to intimidate them. This would be extreme. Or leaders could dog whistle the rest of society to turnon Muslims.

Whatever action you take, it needs Muslims themselves to advocate for tolerance.

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:18 pm

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Can we get rid of our own intolerant fucknuggets and their brands of medieval baggage at the same time?

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:59 pm

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Millions of them are born in Europe so that is a non starter. What you will find is as the populations grow they will get less tolerant of secular ideals

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:57 pm

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:18 pm

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Can we get rid of our own intolerant fucknuggets and their brands of medieval baggage at the same time?

Are they chopping peoples heads off for showing a cartoon and blowing up kids at pop concerts? Then sure.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:59 pm

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Millions of them are born in Europe so that is a non starter. What you will find is as the populations grow they will get less tolerant of secular ideals

Heymans wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:24 am And to all the islam apologists I say this:

there is nothing in islamism that isn't in islam. These guys aren't inventing anything, it's all in the book. There is no moderate muslim, like there is no moderate pregnant women. You either believe the quran is the literal word of god, in case you're in the loony camp, or you don't.
th only difference between moderates and extremists, between islam and islamism is action, as in actually killing miscreants.
There is no ideological separation, or watershed or anything like that. There is nothing moderate about believing a book is the literal word of god, if that was about literally anything else it would be classified as a mental illness.
I don't give a shit that the majority of muslims are law abiding citizen, so is most of everyone else. Only muslims behead people for shit like that in France right now. These people are a cancer and they can get f**ked with their stupid shit.

CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:09 pm

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:59 pm

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Gwenno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:24 pm Either kill them all, (impractical) or stop annoying them. I vote number 2.

Yes, because living with the very real threat of violence over a cartoon and other perceived offences from those who have chosen to live in a secular country is an acceptable status quo. Either 'we' continue to cravenly accept these threats from a bunch of intolerant f*cknuggets or we tell them that a condition of living in a liberal society is that they leave their medieval baggage at the door and toe the f**king line. I vote number 2.

Millions of them are born in Europe so that is a non starter. What you will find is as the populations grow they will get less tolerant of secular ideals

That's not necessarily the case. In fact, it could go the other direction as shown by young Muslims born and bred in western countries going to the ME to join ISIS etc.