Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

All things Rugby
Jay Cee Gee
Posts: 18354
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:00 am
Midfieldmaestro wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:22 pm he failed the exam twice and passed it a third time.
Something slip your mind?

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugb ... 22526.html
Also, of those guys you mentioned the worst any of them have done vs SA is Cowan with a 50% win rate. Fitzy won 9 from 12 (1 draw) and Cane 8 from 9. They don't have to worry too much about bragging rights.
User avatar
Jerome Manning
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:14 pm

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Jerome Manning »

Zakar wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:43 am Lots of very understandable names, and then Dane Coles :lol:
Dane Coles had a magic period of around 24 months where he was incredible.

Bit silly picking a player for 2 years worth of form in a team like this though.
Midfieldmaestro
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:45 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

I watched Danie Gerber talked about the '92 Ellispark game and that he was a bit nervous before the game as the Springboks came out of a long isolation and he was 34 years old when they picked him. He said he nearly scored a hattrick of it wasn't a fwd pass from Pieter Muller.
Didn't know the teams though. Thanks for the info. Uli Schmidt was the hooker against Sean Fitzpatrick. So no excuse for him to pick Dan Coles as the All Time Great Hooker.
Jay Cee Gee
Posts: 18354
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Midfieldmaestro wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:26 am So no excuse for him to pick Dan Coles as the All Time Great Hooker.
Especially as there's no such person.
User avatar
Zakar
Posts: 17101
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Haunting your dreams

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Zakar »

Jerome Manning wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:07 am
Zakar wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:43 am Lots of very understandable names, and then Dane Coles :lol:
Dane Coles had a magic period of around 24 months where he was incredible.

Bit silly picking a player for 2 years worth of form in a team like this though.
Yeah - based on a limited period run of form, you'd have to take Caucau
User avatar
mr bungle
Posts: 12705
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by mr bungle »

Zakar wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:43 am Lots of very understandable names, and then Dane Coles :lol:
I’m not sure who I’d pick, and Sean wasn’t going to pick himself. He’s always been a fan of Coles, and why not? For 4-5 seasons his core hooker roles were superb and he could be a ball runner like no other hooker going. Streets ahead of the Oliver’s, Cannon’s, Hammett’s, Kearn’s, Paul’s plus the endless run of joe average Polynesian wallaby and Pakeha AB bench warmers.

Malcolm Marx gets huge accolades but his good play is countered by 2/3s cold shit. He’s far too inconsistent.

I personally liked Fitzy and Woods.

Who’s your pick?
User avatar
PornDog
Posts: 2682
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by PornDog »

Bogbunny wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:11 pm Nonu better than CMH ? Nope, not in a million years
Tim Horan would be comfortably ahead of Nonu as well.
User avatar
mr bungle
Posts: 12705
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by mr bungle »

PornDog wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:25 am
Bogbunny wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:11 pm Nonu better than CMH ? Nope, not in a million years
Tim Horan would be comfortably ahead of Nonu as well.
Horan is hugely popular in NZ, but Nonu just got better and better as the seasons rolled on. I can see why some would pick him over Horan at 12. He’s definitely in the conversation, rather than being comfortably behind.

I’m much too young to have seen Gibson, unfortunately.
Monk Zombie
Posts: 4569
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Monk Zombie »

i doubt that Coles would make the Bok squad
User avatar
CrazyIslander
Posts: 20017
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:34 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by CrazyIslander »

Monk Zombie wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:35 am i doubt that Coles would make the Bok squad
He's the perfect hooker for the big Bok pack. Extra speed and mobility.
User avatar
handyman
Posts: 14159
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by handyman »

SFP trying very hard to be relevant.
Monk Zombie
Posts: 4569
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Monk Zombie »

CrazyIslander wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:51 am
Monk Zombie wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:35 am i doubt that Coles would make the Bok squad
He's the perfect hooker for the big Bok pack. Extra speed and mobility.

We had Schalk Brits who could run rings around Coles.

And besides - Coles is a sleazeball.
Magpie26
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Magpie26 »

Midfieldmaestro wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:26 am I watched Danie Gerber talked about the '92 Ellispark game and that he was a bit nervous before the game as the Springboks came out of a long isolation and he was 34 years old when they picked him. He said he nearly scored a hattrick of it wasn't a fwd pass from Pieter Muller.
Didn't know the teams though. Thanks for the info. Uli Schmidt was the hooker against Sean Fitzpatrick. So no excuse for him to pick Dan Coles as the All Time Great Hooker.
Why would Uli Schmidt even come into the discussion for All Time Great Hooker? He played something like 10 tests didn't he?

Gerber was pretty good on attack in that game but he struggled somewhat in defense and his miss on Timu to score wasn't great.
User avatar
handyman
Posts: 14159
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by handyman »

Bill McLaren chose Danie Gerber in his greatest ever 15.
User avatar
Mr Mike
Posts: 11070
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Texas

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Mr Mike »

Very surprised he did pick any Wallabies at all given how competitive they were over the duration of Fitzpatrick’s career, they were NZ’s great rival through the 90’s. The SemiFinal in Dublin in 91, the great series of 92 and Gregan’s tackle in 94.

England had a better win rate, 33% , but with fewer games and none in NZ. Australia were running around 30% which was remarkably give no one else got above 20%. A golden period for the Aussies and you would have thought there would be at least a couple in the team. I assume Johnston king hitting Marshal gave him the edge but Meads could give way for Eales, who was one of the (if not the) all time great performers against NZ and as mentioned Horan. For a troll he could have tossed in Tommy Lawton over Kearns.
Magpie26
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Magpie26 »

Mr Mike wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:59 pm Very surprised he did pick any Wallabies at all given how competitive they were over the duration of Fitzpatrick’s career, they were NZ’s great rival through the 90’s. The SemiFinal in Dublin in 91, the great series of 92 and Gregan’s tackle in 94.

England had a better win rate, 33% , but with fewer games and none in NZ. Australia were running around 30% which was remarkably give no one else got above 20%. A golden period for the Aussies and you would have thought there would be at least a couple in the team. I assume Johnston king hitting Marshal gave him the edge but Meads could give way for Eales, who was one of the (if not the) all time great performers against NZ and as mentioned Horan. For a troll he could have tossed in Tommy Lawton over Kearns.
I'm not, he isn't living in Australia, making a living as an Australian TV pundit.

He clearly picked a side to keep his viewers happy.
User avatar
Zakar
Posts: 17101
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Haunting your dreams

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Zakar »

mr bungle wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:12 am
Zakar wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:43 am Lots of very understandable names, and then Dane Coles :lol:
I’m not sure who I’d pick, and Sean wasn’t going to pick himself. He’s always been a fan of Coles, and why not? For 4-5 seasons his core hooker roles were superb and he could be a ball runner like no other hooker going. Streets ahead of the Oliver’s, Cannon’s, Hammett’s, Kearn’s, Paul’s plus the endless run of joe average Polynesian wallaby and Pakeha AB bench warmers.

Malcolm Marx gets huge accolades but his good play is countered by 2/3s cold shit. He’s far too inconsistent.

I personally liked Fitzy and Woods.

Who’s your pick?
Woods personally.

Not sure I agree Coles is streets ahead of the people you mentioned though.

Best of the Aussies was Lawton in my mind.
Jay Cee Gee
Posts: 18354
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Zakar wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:39 pm
Not sure I agree Coles is streets ahead of the people you mentioned though.
Really? Kearns would be the only one of that list I'd even consider being close to Coles. I could see the argument for him - he a great career obviously, but Coles at his peak was a much more dynamic and impactful player for my mind.

As for the others, Cannon and Paul were military medium at best, Oliver was a good scrummager but inconsistent and a head case who shat the bed and Hammett is an international also ran.

I'd agree Woods is more deserving all time though. I'd probably rank Mealamu over Coles too, tbf.
User avatar
Zakar
Posts: 17101
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Haunting your dreams

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Zakar »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:52 pm
Zakar wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:39 pm
Not sure I agree Coles is streets ahead of the people you mentioned though.
Really? Kearns would be the only one of that list I'd even consider being close to Coles. I could see the argument for him - he a great career obviously, but Coles at his peak was a much more dynamic and impactful player for my mind.

As for the others, Cannon and Paul were military mediuhillonlm at best, Oliver was a good scrummager but inconsistent and a head case who shat the bed and Hammett is an international also ran.

I'd agree Woods is more deserving all time though. I'd probably rank Mealamu over Coles too, tbf.
Paul was pretty good, and in many ways a similar player to Coles. Not as athletic, but it's hard to compare eras like that.

Cannon wasn't much chop, agreed there.

Mealamu certainly better.
towny
Posts: 19181
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:53 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by towny »

Bogbunny wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:11 pm Nonu better than CMH ? Nope, not in a million years
Nonu is the best 12 I’ve seen.
Jay Cee Gee
Posts: 18354
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Zakar wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:42 pm military mediuhillonlm
Never mind that, what the fudge is going on with this? I didn't write that gibberish you bastard!
Midfieldmaestro
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:45 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

Problem with players all time great XV is theyr'e biased or they hate some other teams because they were beaten by them. There were also great players in different decades making comparisons impossible.

Best would be to look at a commentator like Bill McLaren's all time great XV. He looked at players more objectively
Bill included Springboks Danie Gerber and Frik du Preez.
There are others that can be considered but not definites
such as Bryan Habana, Naas Botha, Morne' du Plessis, Jan Ellis, Pieter Steph du Toit, Beast Mtawarira, Os du Randt and Uli Schmidt

Wales JPR, Gareth Edwards
That can be considered Gerald Davies, Phil Bennet, JJ Williams, Graham Price and Mervyn Davies to name a few

I mentioned Wales as they produced many greats but there are from countries I do not mention such as David Campese and John Eales amd more of the Wallabies can be considered such as Tim Horan , Jason Little and George Gregan and then there are Ireland, England, Andy Irvine from Scotland, France, Hugo Porta from Argentina etc.

from nz Colin Meads Jonah Lomuh and Richie McCaw
but many can be considered and in the considee list one can rather put Dane Coles although I won't. Consider from nz for me is Ma'a Nonu, Beauden Barret, Zinzan Brooke and some more I'm sure.
I haven't seen other countries played in my first 20 years because of the sports ban we had, only since '92 and Jonah Lomuh ticked the box
Jay Cee Gee
Posts: 18354
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Midfieldmaestro wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:00 am Problem with players all time great XV is theyr'e biased or they hate some other teams because they were beaten by them. There were also great players in different decades making comparisons impossible.

I suspect the main problem is that people like Fitzy don't take it particularly seriously. Someone like McLaren as a broadcaster and aficionado would likely give it a lot more thought, whereas ex players like Fitzy probably just chuck in the first guys they think of. And as multiple ex players turned pundit/commentators have proved, playing the game a high level doesn't always require a massive amount of insight into the game. There's many ex players out there who would have forgotten more about the finer points of rugby than I'll ever know, but there's also guys out there who are a bit thick and don't give the game a huge amount of thought.
User avatar
mr bungle
Posts: 12705
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by mr bungle »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:58 am
Midfieldmaestro wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:00 am Problem with players all time great XV is theyr'e biased or they hate some other teams because they were beaten by them. There were also great players in different decades making comparisons impossible.

I suspect the main problem is that people like Fitzy don't take it particularly seriously. Someone like McLaren as a broadcaster and aficionado would likely give it a lot more thought, whereas ex players like Fitzy probably just chuck in the first guys they think of. And as multiple ex players turned pundit/commentators have proved, playing the game a high level doesn't always require a massive amount of insight into the game. There's many ex players out there who would have forgotten more about the finer points of rugby than I'll ever know, but there's also guys out there who are a bit thick and don't give the game a huge amount of thought.
Phil Kearns skippers that World XV.
User avatar
Zakar
Posts: 17101
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Haunting your dreams

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Zakar »

mr bungle wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:24 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:58 am
Midfieldmaestro wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:00 am Problem with players all time great XV is theyr'e biased or they hate some other teams because they were beaten by them. There were also great players in different decades making comparisons impossible.

I suspect the main problem is that people like Fitzy don't take it particularly seriously. Someone like McLaren as a broadcaster and aficionado would likely give it a lot more thought, whereas ex players like Fitzy probably just chuck in the first guys they think of. And as multiple ex players turned pundit/commentators have proved, playing the game a high level doesn't always require a massive amount of insight into the game. There's many ex players out there who would have forgotten more about the finer points of rugby than I'll ever know, but there's also guys out there who are a bit thick and don't give the game a huge amount of thought.
Phil Kearns skippers that World XV.
Over Coles? :lol:

Kearns is a pantomime one eyed idiot in the commentary box. Wasn't dumb as a player and is actually quite a considered bloke in real life.

Coles actually does thick faux hard man shit during the game that costs his team. Like today with the slap. Dumb dumb dumb.
User avatar
Cartman
Posts: 7807
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by Cartman »

Bismarck shits all over Schmidt in SA terms alone ffs
Why is Uli mentioned at all?
Id put John Smit above Uli too
User avatar
shanky
Posts: 20625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by shanky »

The way the Saffers carry on about Gerber, you’d imagine he’s the fcking Starlord or something.

Centres are ten-a-penny FFS. He could shit diamonds and still only be in ‘the conversation’.
User avatar
mr bungle
Posts: 12705
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by mr bungle »

Zakar wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:22 pm
mr bungle wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:24 am
Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:58 am
Midfieldmaestro wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:00 am Problem with players all time great XV is theyr'e biased or they hate some other teams because they were beaten by them. There were also great players in different decades making comparisons impossible.

I suspect the main problem is that people like Fitzy don't take it particularly seriously. Someone like McLaren as a broadcaster and aficionado would likely give it a lot more thought, whereas ex players like Fitzy probably just chuck in the first guys they think of. And as multiple ex players turned pundit/commentators have proved, playing the game a high level doesn't always require a massive amount of insight into the game. There's many ex players out there who would have forgotten more about the finer points of rugby than I'll ever know, but there's also guys out there who are a bit thick and don't give the game a huge amount of thought.
Phil Kearns skippers that World XV.
Over Coles? :lol:

Kearns is a pantomime one eyed idiot in the commentary box. Wasn't dumb as a player and is actually quite a considered bloke in real life.

Coles actually does thick faux hard man shit during the game that costs his team. Like today with the slap. Dumb dumb dumb.
I was referring solely to Kearns commentary. And the point stands. He’s had a long, great run as skipper.

No argument from me re: Coles. On the field he’s getting dumber by the season.
User avatar
FairWeather_Aussie
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sean Fitzpatrick: Crims and Saffas suck at rugby

Post by FairWeather_Aussie »

I think it is almost impossible to compare players from the amateur and professional eras. In one era it was a bunch of lawyers, accountants and managers running out with a group of mates. Today, with the strength and conditioning, and professional, full time coaching, it would be unfair to compare the two. Campo was my hero as a child, but he would probably get ragdolled by the 2000's on era of outside backs.
Post Reply