TRI-NATIONS 2020: Pumas v Wallabies MATCH THREAD: Nov 21, 08:45 GMT

Carfer · Post by **Carfer** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:30 am

Where: Newcastle, New South Wales - Australia

Venue: McDonald Jones Stadium - Altitude: 33m - Capacity: 26,126

Who:

15. Santiago Carreras
14. Bautista Delguy
13. Matías Orlando
12. Santiago Chocobares
11. Juan Imhoff
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Gonzalo Bertranou
8. Rodrigo Bruni
7. Marcos Kremer
6. Pablo Matera (c)
5. Matías Alemanno
4. Guido Petti
3. Francisco Gómez Kodela
2. Julián Montoya
1. Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro

Replacements:

16. Santiago Socino
17. Mayco Vivas
18. Santiago Medrano
19. Santiago Grondona
20. Facundo Isa
21. Felipe Ezcurra
22. Emiliano Boffelli
23. Santiago Cordero

Head Coach: Mario Ledesma

15. Tom Banks
14. Tom Wright
13. Jordan Petaia
12. Hunter Paisam
11. Marika Koroibete
10. Reece Hodge
9. Nic White
8. Harry Wilson
7. Michael Hooper (c)
6. Ned Hanigan
5. Matt Philip
4. Rob Simmons
3. Taniela Tupou
2. Brandon Paenga-Amosa
1. Scott Sio

Replacements:

16. Folau Fainga’a
17. Angus Bell
18. Allan Alaalatoa
19. Rob Valetini
20. Liam Wright
21. Jake Gordon
22. Noah Lolesio
23. Filipo Daugunu

Head Coach: Dave Rennie

When:

Kick-off

Saturday 21 November 2020, 21:45 (Wellington - New Zealand)
Saturday 21 November 2020, 19:45 (Sydney - Australia)
Saturday 21 November 2020, 08:45 (GMT)
Saturday 21 November 2020, 05:45 (Buenos Aires - Argentina)

History:

Assistant Referee 1 - Ben O’Keeffe (NZ)
Assistant Referee 2 - Angus Gardner (Aus)

TMO - Nic Berry (Aus)

Weather Forecast:

kiap · Post by **kiap** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:38 am

Top OP as always.

Looking forward to this game. Going to be tough with the Pumas on song!

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:22 am

Got to admit I thought this competition was dead but with the kiwi choke yesterday Australia are now looking at a championship win

Carfer · Post by **Carfer** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:32 am

kiap wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:38 am Top OP as always.

Looking forward to this game. Going to be tough with the Pumas on song!

Thanks kiap for the comment about the OP.

As far as next Saturday's game is concerned, we could expect a drop in intensity due to the emotional discharge of breaking the AB's unbeaten spell (something like what happened to ENG after eliminating NZL in the semifinals of RWC 2019). That is a "conjunctural" aspect. The structural issue, that is the commitment of this group to generate their own way of playing -based on the "DNA of Argentinean rugby"- can give the pattern of a hard defense and more refined set pieces. Probably it will not be enough, for now, to win a Tri-Narions or RC, but at least there is a path to follow.

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:38 pm

This will be an interesting game. The best looking jersey in the world vs the second best.

I am excited but have mixed feelings. If we win we actually have a chance to win the 3N. But if the RG’s plat like they did on Saturday, we might be f#%ked.

Matt Henjak · Post by **Matt Henjak** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:53 pm

Solid chance they'll believe their own hype and not turn up.

Olo · Post by **Olo** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:59 pm

They are going to have some bumps and bruises after the weekend. Chikada will have them frothing again come kick off.
Looks like LSL and JOC might be back on deck.

Post by **Thomas** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:07 pm

This is going to be a doozy of a match.

Jerome Manning · Post by **Jerome Manning** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:19 pm

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:22 am Got to admit I thought this competition was dead but with the kiwi choke yesterday Australia are now looking at a championship win

There are many words to describe that All Blacks loss but a choke aint one of them. That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

towny · Post by **towny** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:40 pm

Jerome Manning wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:19 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:22 am Got to admit I thought this competition was dead but with the kiwi choke yesterday Australia are now looking at a championship win
There are many words to describe that All Blacks loss but a choke aint one of them. That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

+1

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:30 am

Jerome Manning wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:19 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:22 am Got to admit I thought this competition was dead but with the kiwi choke yesterday Australia are now looking at a championship win
There are many words to describe that All Blacks loss but a choke aint one of them. That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Your team strolled out thinking it would be an easy win. The opposition didn't 'lie down and accept their ritual slaughter but instead built a lead. Then your fly-half starts the choke by kicking a penalty DEAD when going for a 5m lineout. You drop some easy balls and with the TRY line beckoning your replacement number 8 decides to throw the ball to his dad in the crowd. What made it worse is there was no crowd.
Choke

Bindi · Post by **Bindi** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:12 am

No one gives a fudge about the ABs - this is a Puma v Wallaby match thread.

Wallabies team will be much the same as 2 weeks ago.

Possibly LSL to 6. If JOC is back at 10, hopefully Hodge is at 15.

Post by **Thomas** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 am

It'll be interesting to see where they slot Hodge. He has to be in the team somewhere. Banks hasn't been shit at fullback so it'd be a dick move to turf him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC on the bench or left out (for now).

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:52 am

JOC will be 10 if fit. If Hodge starts it will either be at 12 or 15, meaning either Paisami sitting the pine, or Banks missing the 23 completely.

grievous · Post by **grievous** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:04 am

Trying to make the trip up for this, hopefully the locals support it

Zakar · Post by **Zakar** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:24 am

Thomas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 am It'll be interesting to see where they slot Hodge. He has to be in the team somewhere. Banks hasn't been shit at fullback so it'd be a dick move to turf him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC on the bench or left out (for now).

The last game was Banks' best in Gold, looked much more comfortable on attack. Plus that flick pass for Wright's try was a thing of beauty.

wamberal · Post by **wamberal** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:41 am

grievous wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:04 am Trying to make the trip up for this, hopefully the locals support it

8000 would be a good crowd. Newey is a loig town.

Zakar · Post by **Zakar** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:48 am

wamberal wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:41 am
grievous wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:04 am Trying to make the trip up for this, hopefully the locals support it
8000 would be a good crowd. Newey is a loig town.

They've had 20k+ before for the Wallabies.

MungoMan · Post by **MungoMan** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:50 am

Thomas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 am It'll be interesting to see where they slot Hodge. He has to be in the team somewhere. Banks hasn't been shit at fullback so it'd be a dick move to turf him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC on the bench or left out (for now).

I will be fúcking annoyed if he starts. He doesn't offer anything different enough in attack or distribution to believe he would be an upgrade on Hodge at 10 and his kicking out-of-hand is a clear downgrade on Hodge.

EDIT

Forgot to say, excellent OP Carfer!

Olo · Post by **Olo** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:24 am

MungoMan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:50 am
Thomas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 am It'll be interesting to see where they slot Hodge. He has to be in the team somewhere. Banks hasn't been shit at fullback so it'd be a dick move to turf him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC on the bench or left out (for now).
I will be fúcking annoyed if he starts. He doesn't offer anything different enough in attack or distribution to believe he would be an upgrade on Hodge at 10 and his kicking out-of-hand is a clear downgrade on Hodge.

EDIT

Forgot to say, excellent OP Carfer!

So Hodge is our #1 10 now? No. He did a great job in the last test and he may well line up at 12 or 15 but
JOC and Toomua are our best 5/8s, no problem. Having Hodge at 12 will give us two good kicking options with Paisami to come in late. No need for another 10 on the bench.

mightyreds · Post by **mightyreds** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:40 am

Thanks to Carfer for the excellent presentation - a beautiful ground in a beautiful city, and everything to play for for both sides. Could be a great game!

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:07 pm

Whatever position he plays, Hodge should be doing our clearance kicks. I never understood during the Cheika era when Foley would be clearing and not even getting out of our own 22, while Hodge was on the field. Whether he plays 12 or 15, have him as the first option to clear the ball if we are stuck on our own try line.

towny · Post by **towny** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:28 pm

Hope he’s at 15. No way in hell he’s a better flyhalf than JOC. 12 isn’t a bad shout either.

Carfer · Post by **Carfer** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:52 pm

mightyreds wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:40 am Thanks to Carfer for the excellent presentation - a beautiful ground in a beautiful city, and everything to play for for both sides. Could be a great game!

Carfer · Post by **Carfer** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:54 pm

MungoMan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:50 am
Thomas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 am It'll be interesting to see where they slot Hodge. He has to be in the team somewhere. Banks hasn't been shit at fullback so it'd be a dick move to turf him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC on the bench or left out (for now).
I will be fúcking annoyed if he starts. He doesn't offer anything different enough in attack or distribution to believe he would be an upgrade on Hodge at 10 and his kicking out-of-hand is a clear downgrade on Hodge.

EDIT

Forgot to say, excellent OP Carfer!

SFBB · Post by **SFBB** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:56 pm

Terrible OP. Do better or don’t bother.

Carfer · Post by **Carfer** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:50 pm

SFBB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:56 pm Terrible OP. Do better or don’t bother.

Bindi · Post by **Bindi** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:41 am

JOC is still out with injury, so that dilemma is solved. Backline to remain the same.

Just need a new 1 and 6.

Sensible Stephen · Post by **Sensible Stephen** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:45 am

Will be interesting to see how Argentina go with this one.

I think they will do an England. Played their final last week, won't be the same team this week. 20 point win for us.

Olo · Post by **Olo** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:48 am

Bindi wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:41 am JOC is still out with injury, so that dilemma is solved. Backline to remain the same.

Just need a new 1 and 6.

Rennie sounded like he was on the fence. Good that he doesn’t have to worry about it and they get some continuity.
Sio has to start at 1. 6 is a tough one. Do we want speed and presence at the breakdown or a big body to counter the Argie back row? I’d say the former. Hopefully LSL is good to go. This will give us a little more flexibility.

MungoMan · Post by **MungoMan** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:59 am

Olo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:24 am
MungoMan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:50 am
Thomas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 am It'll be interesting to see where they slot Hodge. He has to be in the team somewhere. Banks hasn't been shit at fullback so it'd be a dick move to turf him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC on the bench or left out (for now).
I will be fúcking annoyed if he starts. He doesn't offer anything different enough in attack or distribution to believe he would be an upgrade on Hodge at 10 and his kicking out-of-hand is a clear downgrade on Hodge.

EDIT

Forgot to say, excellent OP Carfer!
So Hodge is our #1 10 now? No. He did a great job in the last test and he may well line up at 12 or 15 but
JOC and Toomua are our best 5/8s, no problem. Having Hodge at 12 will give us two good kicking options with Paisami to come in late. No need for another 10 on the bench.

To be clear: I was addressing which of JOC or Hodge I would like to see starting at #10 for this game and assuming Hodge would not be starting at #15.

Zakar · Post by **Zakar** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:16 am

JOC injured, Hodge to start at 10 again.

The main questionmarks for me are

1 - between Sio and Bell who starts. The Argie props are a level above the like of 12ply Lomax.

5 and 19 - will we see Simmons and Hannigan again, or will Hosea/Neville get a shot. I like the idea of someone with a bigger body coming on late

6. With Swinton getting himself banned until February, I think we'll either see Wilson at 6 with Naisarani at 8, or Valentini at 6 with Wilson at 8. This Argentinean back row is big, and needs big bodies to counter them. It's not an accident that the ABs had way more go forward once Sotutu came on.

jdogscoop · Post by **jdogscoop** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:24 am

I have a fair idea what sort of Wallabies team will turn up this weekend: a committed team with its fair share of talent that will be well up for the challenge.

But what Argentina side will we get? A repeat of the sensational performance of last week, or a cooked side playing like they've already had their final?

grievous · Post by **grievous** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:26 am

wamberal wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:41 am
grievous wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:04 am Trying to make the trip up for this, hopefully the locals support it
8000 would be a good crowd. Newey is a loig town.

Game will be sold out with restrictions, RA trying to lift this.
Be more around 15k unless gov approves.

Olo · Post by **Olo** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:33 am

MungoMan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:59 am
Olo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:24 am
MungoMan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:50 am
Thomas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 am It'll be interesting to see where they slot Hodge. He has to be in the team somewhere. Banks hasn't been shit at fullback so it'd be a dick move to turf him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC on the bench or left out (for now).
I will be fúcking annoyed if he starts. He doesn't offer anything different enough in attack or distribution to believe he would be an upgrade on Hodge at 10 and his kicking out-of-hand is a clear downgrade on Hodge.

EDIT

Forgot to say, excellent OP Carfer!
So Hodge is our #1 10 now? No. He did a great job in the last test and he may well line up at 12 or 15 but
JOC and Toomua are our best 5/8s, no problem. Having Hodge at 12 will give us two good kicking options with Paisami to come in late. No need for another 10 on the bench.
To be clear: I was addressing which of JOC or Hodge I would like to see starting at #10 for this game and assuming Hodge would not be starting at #15.

Yes, if they are both fit I think JOC starts at 10 and Hodge at 12 or 15. Hodge has a chance to cement the position this week and Lolesio will have another chance to impress off the bench.

I can’t see Naisarani taking Wilsons spot in the back row. Hooper and Wilson start and then it is between the others to see who starts with them. I’d guess Wright or Naisarani and maybe LSL if we are going to try and match the grunt.
It’s a pretty big game for us now.

Post by **Thomas** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:40 am

Olo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:33 am It’s a pretty big game for us now.

It sure is.

I think if the ABs had put 50 on the Argies we'd be gearing for a tough but ultimately brutal Wallaby flogging. As it stands, Argentina appear to have a solid game plan to take the game by the scruff of the neck. I'm worried that the Wallabies will try shit...then panic when it doesn't work. This will play right into the Puma's hands.

Olo · Post by **Olo** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:16 am

Yes. But there is nothing really ground breakingly new in the Argies arsenal. They basically played the same game they have for a while but were infinitely more accurate. The ABs panicked and we cannot afford to do the same.
Rennie must go in with game plans 1, 2 and 3. We have the cattle.

Post by **Thomas** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:56 am

I'm worried about our lack of playmaking. If they just bash it up the Pumas will eat that shit for breakfast.

Sensible Stephen · Post by **Sensible Stephen** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:09 am

Thomas wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:56 am I'm worried about our lack of playmaking. If they just bash it up the Pumas will eat that shit for breakfast.

Their forwards could eat us alive. But I think they will be still too mentally drained after getting up last week. I am reasonably confident we will win comfortably.

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:21 am

Sensible Stephen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:09 am
Thomas wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:56 am I'm worried about our lack of playmaking. If they just bash it up the Pumas will eat that shit for breakfast.
Their forwards could eat us alive. But I think they will be still too mentally drained after getting up last week. I am reasonably confident we will win comfortably.

Argentina only getting a 5 point head start with the bookies. On the back of an average performance against a Kiwi side that were woeful.