All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

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Clogs
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All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Clogs »

Has their incredible run of good luck and talent come to an end and they are about to become the plaything of England?
Varsity Way
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Varsity Way »

Lol. Unlikely. Although we did give them a good hiding last time out ;)
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

Their still a talent factory but their luck fo producing some all time bests has ended, naturally because any system even producing the best of any generation each time, can't produce greatest of all time more than once. Also the competition has broadly more depth now, there are more teams to trip over in test rugby now and no one can bring their A game 24/7.
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

The cap is clearly closing but in a knockout game i'd still back them to beat whoever it is they are playing. However they have shown if you can bring the physicality and accuracy they can't deal with it

The next WC will be a cracker. France, England, South Africa and Australia looking like they are all building towards something
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mr bungle
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by mr bungle »

Physicality, accuracy. Rugby 101.
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Muttonbirds
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Muttonbirds »

1. Youth playing numbers have been declining in NZ for some time.
2. Negative effects of the commercialisation of school sport.
3. Players now view rugby as a journey rather than a mountain to climb.
4. Admin too focussed on high performance and revenue.
5. Shite coach who is nicknamed after a Muppet. :?
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Harveys
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Harveys »

TBH I was expecting this 2-3 years ago as any daylight between us and the rest has been gone post 2015 WC. I’ve struggled to pay attention this year, life has been busy and the team is as weak and uninspiring as I can remember. We are at a cyclical low point so the rebuilding could begin with the right coaching team...... :uhoh: .
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Kahu
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Kahu »

NZ will never win a world cup ever again.
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MrDominator
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by MrDominator »

It looks like reality is dawning in New Zealand. Here's Richard Knowler:
Thankfully, the All Blacks never had to meet England in London. That game, as part of the northern tour, was canned because of the pandemic.

Imagine the damage an England team coached by Eddie Jones could inflict if they played like they did against the Argies.
Let's hope, for the sake of the players, that the NZRU has redirected some of its resources from silver polish to lubricant...
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CrazyIslander
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by CrazyIslander »

This will be a prolonged slump but in time they will return to the top. Too many mediocre players. They need to bring through young players now.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by CrazyIslander »

Beaudy needs to go back to 10.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Willie Falloon »

NZ had some of their greatest ever players during the same era, if they had McCaw, Rettallick, Carter and Conrad Smith in that team then they'd be the dominant force again.
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lilyw
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by lilyw »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:59 am 1. Youth playing numbers have been declining in NZ for some time.
2. Negative effects of the commercialisation of school sport.
3. Players now view rugby as a journey rather than a mountain to climb.
4. Admin too focussed on high performance and revenue.
5. Shite coach who is nicknamed after a Muppet. :?
Any poster who uses the word journey to mean anything other than a physical trip deserves a permaban.
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by iarmhiman »

I wonder if they will refresh the squad with new players and a new style.

They've did that before after 2007 RWC. When every other team was trying to cope with South Africa's kick and chase power game, NZ went for fitness and mobility. We started seeing players like Dagg coming on the scene.

They've always been innovators. I'd expect them to do it again with 3 years to go
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:32 pm Beaudy needs to go back to 10.
Why? After a year he was utterly found out there. Not a great kicker from hand or in place, not a great creative passer. Can't do much if the defense doesn't allow him time and space and defenses generally don't these days.
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

iarmhiman wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:54 pm I wonder if they will refresh the squad with new players and a new style.

They've did that before after 2007 RWC. When every other team was trying to cope with South Africa's kick and chase power game, NZ went for fitness and mobility. We started seeing players like Dagg coming on the scene.

They've always been innovators. I'd expect them to do it again with 3 years to go
But this has often been NZs style, mobile forwards have been in their DNA for yonks. They 2007 team didn't lose because they were unfit. I don't think they changed anything but they certainly learned from 2007 and of course let us not remember that 2007 was only a failure due to France doing only what France can, going nuts at NZ and beating them in an RWC.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by CrazyIslander »

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:06 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:32 pm Beaudy needs to go back to 10.
Why? After a year he was utterly found out there. Not a great kicker from hand or in place, not a great creative passer. Can't do much if the defense doesn't allow him time and space and defenses generally don't these days.
Beaudy is a winner and a better runner. Mo'unga isn't a threat to a well organised and hard hitting defenses. He's been tried and found out.
They should've realised it last year when he couldn't cope with the rush defenses. Even when ABs beat SA in the WC, it was chaotic and it took two sensational tries to win it.
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:15 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:06 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:32 pm Beaudy needs to go back to 10.
Why? After a year he was utterly found out there. Not a great kicker from hand or in place, not a great creative passer. Can't do much if the defense doesn't allow him time and space and defenses generally don't these days.
Beaudy is a winner and a better runner. Mo'unga isn't a threat to a well organised and hard hitting defenses. He's been tried and found out.
They should've realised it last year when he couldn't cope with the rush defenses. Even when ABs beat SA in the WC, it was chaotic and it took two sensational tries to win it.
The exact same sentence can be used for Beauden Barrett. Weird you next mention rush defences because that is exactly how Barrett was exposed as well.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by CrazyIslander »

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:19 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:15 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:06 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:32 pm Beaudy needs to go back to 10.
Why? After a year he was utterly found out there. Not a great kicker from hand or in place, not a great creative passer. Can't do much if the defense doesn't allow him time and space and defenses generally don't these days.
Beaudy is a winner and a better runner. Mo'unga isn't a threat to a well organised and hard hitting defenses. He's been tried and found out.
They should've realised it last year when he couldn't cope with the rush defenses. Even when ABs beat SA in the WC, it was chaotic and it took two sensational tries to win it.
The exact same sentence can be used for Beauden Barrett. Weird you next mention rush defences because that is exactly how Barrett was exposed as well.
Beaudy wasn't too perfect but he was world player of the year twice in a row before he was dumped. Mo'unga hasn't come close to that level.
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by True Blue »

FB 15 Ben Smith
RW 14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
OC 13 Conrad Smith
IC 12 Ma'a Nonu
LW 11 Julian Savea
FH 10 Dan Carter
SH 9 Aaron Smith
N8 8 Kieran Read
OF 7 Richie McCaw (c)
BF 6 Jerome Kaino
RL 5 Sam Whitelock
LL 4 Brodie Retallick

TP 3 Owen Franks
HK 2 Dane Coles
LP 1 Joe Moody
This is the starting 15 from the 2015 final. I bolded the ones who I think were either the best in the world in their position or in the top 2 at least (during that time). Then you had the likes of Mealamu, BB, and SBW on the bench.
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MrDominator
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by MrDominator »

We can argue the toss about what the future holds for this All Blacks team, but one thing isn't in doubt: their aura has been shattered by the events of the past few years. That aura was built on the idea of invincibility. Yet if you lose to teams you've never previously lost to, there is no aura left to protect.

2016 - the first New Zealand defeat to Ireland in history.
2020 - the first New Zealand defeat to Argentina in history.

These are epochal, era-defining events. The All Blacks first played Ireland in 1905 - over a century of dominance shattered in an instant, never to return. The All Blacks first played Argentina in 1985 - three rugby generations of dominance equally shattered, never to return. This All Blacks generation will never be forgiven for surrendering their banners of war to the Irish and Argentines.

We all know what happens next. Like night follows day, New Zealand will lose to Scotland (for the first time ever) and to Wales (for the first time since 1953). It's inevitable, and will almost certainly happen within this RWC cycle. And when that happens, New Zealand will be just another team.

The Germans had an aura until Stalingrad. The Soviets had an aura until Afghanistan. When the aura shatters, complete surrender is only around the corner.
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Magpie26 »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:16 pm It looks like reality is dawning in New Zealand. Here's Richard Knowler:
Thankfully, the All Blacks never had to meet England in London. That game, as part of the northern tour, was canned because of the pandemic.

Imagine the damage an England team coached by Eddie Jones could inflict if they played like they did against the Argies.
Let's hope, for the sake of the players, that the NZRU has redirected some of its resources from silver polish to lubricant...
Remind me again why we should be worried about a team that gets thumped by SA when the pressure is on and has lost to Argentina not once, not twice, not three times but four times?
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Zakar
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Zakar »

True Blue wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:12 pm
FB 15 Ben Smith
RW 14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
OC 13 Conrad Smith
IC 12 Ma'a Nonu
LW 11 Julian Savea
FH 10 Dan Carter
SH 9 Aaron Smith
N8 8 Kieran Read
OF 7 Richie McCaw (c)
BF 6 Jerome Kaino
RL 5 Sam Whitelock
LL 4 Brodie Retallick

TP 3 Owen Franks
HK 2 Dane Coles
LP 1 Joe Moody
This is the starting 15 from the 2015 final. I bolded the ones who I think were either the best in the world in their position or in the top 2 at least (during that time). Then you had the likes of Mealamu, BB, and SBW on the bench.


Yeah, that 2015 team was one of the best to ever take the field. 12 world class players and at least 7 players who are in the conversation for the best ever in their position.


You're always going to come down the mountain a bit after that.
Eugenius
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Eugenius »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:37 pm We can argue the toss about what the future holds for this All Blacks team, but one thing isn't in doubt: their aura has been shattered by the events of the past few years. That aura was built on the idea of invincibility. Yet if you lose to teams you've never previously lost to, there is no aura left to protect.

2016 - the first New Zealand defeat to Ireland in history.
2020 - the first New Zealand defeat to Argentina in history.

These are epochal, era-defining events. The All Blacks first played Ireland in 1905 - over a century of dominance shattered in an instant, never to return. The All Blacks first played Argentina in 1985 - three rugby generations of dominance equally shattered, never to return. This All Blacks generation will never be forgiven for surrendering their banners of war to the Irish and Argentines.

We all know what happens next. Like night follows day, New Zealand will lose to Scotland (for the first time ever) and to Wales (for the first time since 1953). It's inevitable, and will almost certainly happen within this RWC cycle. And when that happens, New Zealand will be just another team.

The Germans had an aura until Stalingrad. The Soviets had an aura until Afghanistan. When the aura shatters, complete surrender is only around the corner.


What a very strange person .
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

True Blue wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:12 pm
FB 15 Ben Smith
RW 14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
OC 13 Conrad Smith
IC 12 Ma'a Nonu
LW 11 Julian Savea
FH 10 Dan Carter
SH 9 Aaron Smith
N8 8 Kieran Read
OF 7 Richie McCaw (c)
BF 6 Jerome Kaino
RL 5 Sam Whitelock
LL 4 Brodie Retallick

TP 3 Owen Franks
HK 2 Dane Coles
LP 1 Joe Moody
This is the starting 15 from the 2015 final. I bolded the ones who I think were either the best in the world in their position or in the top 2 at least (during that time). Then you had the likes of Mealamu, BB, and SBW on the bench.
fudge me, I'd forgotten, that team would dry hump and have their naughty way with anybody today.
backrow
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by backrow »

Bit early to call it a slump, it’s only two losses in a row ffs. Argentina are a good side, and when Ireland beat them they had been in the piss in USA.
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Harveys
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Harveys »

Zakar wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:41 pm
True Blue wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:12 pm
FB 15 Ben Smith
RW 14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
OC 13 Conrad Smith
IC 12 Ma'a Nonu
LW 11 Julian Savea
FH 10 Dan Carter
SH 9 Aaron Smith
N8 8 Kieran Read
OF 7 Richie McCaw (c)
BF 6 Jerome Kaino
RL 5 Sam Whitelock
LL 4 Brodie Retallick

TP 3 Owen Franks
HK 2 Dane Coles
LP 1 Joe Moody
This is the starting 15 from the 2015 final. I bolded the ones who I think were either the best in the world in their position or in the top 2 at least (during that time). Then you had the likes of Mealamu, BB, and SBW on the bench.


Yeah, that 2015 team was one of the best to ever take the field. 12 world class players and at least 7 players who are in the conversation for the best ever in their position.


You're always going to come down the mountain a bit after that.
Yup, strange thing is it took 5 years to get to where we are now but where we are now was always going happen at some point.

I expect a lot of new faces and another coach over the next couple of years.
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Harveys
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Harveys »

backrow wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:11 pm Bit early to call it a slump, it’s only two losses in a row ffs. Argentina are a good side, and when Ireland beat them they had been in the piss in USA.
I don’t know what you define a slump as, I recon however you and others don’t care how shit we play so long as we win. We have been in a skill, performance and cohesion slump for a long time now but have still been getting results which for mine is frustrating as we have been mediocre for years against historical AB standards.
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Lemoentjie »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:37 pm We can argue the toss about what the future holds for this All Blacks team, but one thing isn't in doubt: their aura has been shattered by the events of the past few years. That aura was built on the idea of invincibility. Yet if you lose to teams you've never previously lost to, there is no aura left to protect.

2016 - the first New Zealand defeat to Ireland in history.
2020 - the first New Zealand defeat to Argentina in history.

These are epochal, era-defining events. The All Blacks first played Ireland in 1905 - over a century of dominance shattered in an instant, never to return. The All Blacks first played Argentina in 1985 - three rugby generations of dominance equally shattered, never to return. This All Blacks generation will never be forgiven for surrendering their banners of war to the Irish and Argentines.

We all know what happens next. Like night follows day, New Zealand will lose to Scotland (for the first time ever) and to Wales (for the first time since 1953). It's inevitable, and will almost certainly happen within this RWC cycle. And when that happens, New Zealand will be just another team.

The Germans had an aura until Stalingrad. The Soviets had an aura until Afghanistan. When the aura shatters, complete surrender is only around the corner.
:lol: :lol: Mr Dominator's posts are some of the funniest on PR
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Jerome Manning
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Jerome Manning »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:37 pm We can argue the toss about what the future holds for this All Blacks team, but one thing isn't in doubt: their aura has been shattered by the events of the past few years. That aura was built on the idea of invincibility. Yet if you lose to teams you've never previously lost to, there is no aura left to protect.

2016 - the first New Zealand defeat to Ireland in history.
2020 - the first New Zealand defeat to Argentina in history.

These are epochal, era-defining events. The All Blacks first played Ireland in 1905 - over a century of dominance shattered in an instant, never to return. The All Blacks first played Argentina in 1985 - three rugby generations of dominance equally shattered, never to return. This All Blacks generation will never be forgiven for surrendering their banners of war to the Irish and Argentines.

We all know what happens next. Like night follows day, New Zealand will lose to Scotland (for the first time ever) and to Wales (for the first time since 1953). It's inevitable, and will almost certainly happen within this RWC cycle. And when that happens, New Zealand will be just another team.

The Germans had an aura until Stalingrad. The Soviets had an aura until Afghanistan. When the aura shatters, complete surrender is only around the corner.
We will know the aura is gone when people stop talking about the aura. As long as opposition fans bring it up, it's still there. I admit it is rapidly depleting through.
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:08 pm
MrDominator wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:37 pm We can argue the toss about what the future holds for this All Blacks team, but one thing isn't in doubt: their aura has been shattered by the events of the past few years. That aura was built on the idea of invincibility. Yet if you lose to teams you've never previously lost to, there is no aura left to protect.

2016 - the first New Zealand defeat to Ireland in history.
2020 - the first New Zealand defeat to Argentina in history.

These are epochal, era-defining events. The All Blacks first played Ireland in 1905 - over a century of dominance shattered in an instant, never to return. The All Blacks first played Argentina in 1985 - three rugby generations of dominance equally shattered, never to return. This All Blacks generation will never be forgiven for surrendering their banners of war to the Irish and Argentines.

We all know what happens next. Like night follows day, New Zealand will lose to Scotland (for the first time ever) and to Wales (for the first time since 1953). It's inevitable, and will almost certainly happen within this RWC cycle. And when that happens, New Zealand will be just another team.

The Germans had an aura until Stalingrad. The Soviets had an aura until Afghanistan. When the aura shatters, complete surrender is only around the corner.
We will know the aura is gone when people stop talking about the aura. As long as opposition fans bring it up, it's still there. I admit it is rapidly depleting through.
I'm not sure opposition fans ever discuss the aura, it seems to just be the boards most frequent trolls.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Jerome Manning »

Lemoentjie wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:48 pm
MrDominator wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:37 pm We can argue the toss about what the future holds for this All Blacks team...
:lol: :lol: Mr Dominator's posts are some of the funniest on PR

That was one of his better posts. He normally over-eggs it on the Mullet impersonation.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Willie Falloon »

backrow wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:11 pm Bit early to call it a slump, it’s only two losses in a row ffs. Argentina are a good side, and when Ireland beat them they had been in the piss in USA.
Ireland beat them in 2018 also. :proud:
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Jerome Manning
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Jerome Manning »

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:14 pm
I'm not sure opposition fans ever discuss the aura, it seems to just be the boards most frequent trolls.
Well opposition journalists certainly do. It's been a weekly column for the last 20 years.
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by towny »

Lomax reminds me of Pek Cowan. Frizzel reminds me of Ed Quirk.
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Post by UncleFB »

Image
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mr bungle
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by mr bungle »

Harveys wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:22 pm
backrow wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:11 pm Bit early to call it a slump, it’s only two losses in a row ffs. Argentina are a good side, and when Ireland beat them they had been in the piss in USA.
I don’t know what you define a slump as, I recon however you and others don’t care how shit we play so long as we win. We have been in a skill, performance and cohesion slump for a long time now but have still been getting results which for mine is frustrating as we have been mediocre for years against historical AB standards.
Backrow is as Kiwi as the women he wanks over.
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:17 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:14 pm
I'm not sure opposition fans ever discuss the aura, it seems to just be the boards most frequent trolls.
Well opposition journalists certainly do. It's been a weekly column for the last 20 years.
Not sure a single significant British news source even mentioned it this weekend. Though interesting it does seem to be Aussie based rugby sites that do after a google.
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eldanielfire
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by eldanielfire »

mr bungle wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:19 am
Harveys wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:22 pm
backrow wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:11 pm Bit early to call it a slump, it’s only two losses in a row ffs. Argentina are a good side, and when Ireland beat them they had been in the piss in USA.
I don’t know what you define a slump as, I recon however you and others don’t care how shit we play so long as we win. We have been in a skill, performance and cohesion slump for a long time now but have still been getting results which for mine is frustrating as we have been mediocre for years against historical AB standards.
Backrow is as Kiwi as the women he wanks over.
I always assumed he has popped one or two over Jacinda Ardern on occasion. You know, just to be a bit dirty.
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Zakar
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Re: All Blacks. Just a slump? Or...

Post by Zakar »

towny wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:37 pm Lomax reminds me of Pek Cowan. Frizzel reminds me of Ed Quirk.
Lomax was a benchy at best for the Ausssie u20s team. The fact he's starting for the ABs says a lot about their lack of depth at prop.
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