Kilts vs Frogs

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message #2527204
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Re: Kilts vs Frogs

Post by message #2527204 »

shereblue wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:53 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:55 pm
shereblue wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:26 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:36 pm
shereblue wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:21 pm
Born near Christchurch but Fijian and returned to Fiji as a young child. Now translating for Finn Russell.

Did play a game or 2 for Fiji U 19s.

Was spotted by Sireli Bobi, Fijian international at Racing Metro, and accepted in minutes his countryman's invitation to come to France.

It's the money for sure but it was his chosen path. He had to take his exam to become French twice. For good measure he contracted to play 7s for France ahead, of lucrative Top14 offers.

Powerful but no bosh merchant and perfectly suited to being a bleu. MOM today :thumbup:
He'd have been tied to Fiji by playing U20. Switching to sevens was a way to get untied before the Olympics... not sure if that still works.
Me neither. He'd have won Gold had he made the Fiji team. No criticism, but there is a more pressing Gold to aspire to when living in a relatively poor country. A very talented young man of ambition. A bit like the pursuit of the American Dream in rugby terms.

I find ready-made, slightly sub par poaches more depressing but the consequences of economic inequality for fans of Fijian and PI rugby are also harsh. The 5 year residency requirement seems better.
There will still be moaning. The French clubs currently have large incentives from the FFR to raid Fijian talent before they even enter the Fijian system. Won;t be long before some of those clubs start setting up 'training programmes' in NZ too.
Keeping it vaguely topical, yesterday's French lock Romain Taofifenua was born in France to a French father, Willy Taofifenua (of FC Grenoble and managing Pro 2 Limoges), a native of Wallis & Futuna, a French PI Territory.

Willy was instrumental in setting up a French Academy in New Caledonia for 2 dozen or so promising Islanders (inc. a few women), giving them an education as well as pro coaching on a weekly boarding basis aged 18-21. The aim being to better equip them to cope with any eventual success or failure in pro rugby. Caucau having been one of the most prominent but troubled on field successes who left the game with nothing.

Don't know much about the FFR / Top 14 Fiji links. It would be simple capitalist exploitation linked to globalisation. A just outcome would be to see more trickle down to the PI rugby players and clubs themselves - at all levels. I gather the Fijian President additionally contributes to the problem. After some of the turgid rugby this weekend, I'd love to have seen Fiji and a properly rewarded Fiji would have been even better.

Swindon Town is my footballing peccadillo and I lament the trawler-like hoovering of every conceivably promising youngster by Premiership clubs within the UK, never mind overseas. C'est la vie.
I imagine Willy was a born and bred Caledonian of Wallisien decent?
This was 2018 wrote:Forty teenagers are gathered outside a Fiji Rugby Union gym in Sigatoka, ready for a weights session. They are part of the Nadroga Academy. Later they will walk across to the senior team’s pitch to carry the province’s one scrum machine to their training area for a few drills. Their navy shirts feature the province’s stallion logo and that of Clermont Auvergne.
https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/p ... rt-93780/3

In 2014 (Ithink it was) Fiji schoolboys beat New Zealan schoolboys ... all of the Fijian lads had contracts the following day by accounts.

Of course you're correct that the money the lads earn will go back to Fiji in the main. But it's not good for test rugby.
shereblue
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Re: Kilts vs Frogs

Post by shereblue »

message #2527204 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:05 pm
shereblue wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:53 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:55 pm
shereblue wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:26 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:36 pm

He'd have been tied to Fiji by playing U20. Switching to sevens was a way to get untied before the Olympics... not sure if that still works.
Me neither. He'd have won Gold had he made the Fiji team. No criticism, but there is a more pressing Gold to aspire to when living in a relatively poor country. A very talented young man of ambition. A bit like the pursuit of the American Dream in rugby terms.

I find ready-made, slightly sub par poaches more depressing but the consequences of economic inequality for fans of Fijian and PI rugby are also harsh. The 5 year residency requirement seems better.
There will still be moaning. The French clubs currently have large incentives from the FFR to raid Fijian talent before they even enter the Fijian system. Won;t be long before some of those clubs start setting up 'training programmes' in NZ too.
Keeping it vaguely topical, yesterday's French lock Romain Taofifenua was born in France to a French father, Willy Taofifenua (of FC Grenoble and managing Pro 2 Limoges), a native of Wallis & Futuna, a French PI Territory.

Willy was instrumental in setting up a French Academy in New Caledonia for 2 dozen or so promising Islanders (inc. a few women), giving them an education as well as pro coaching on a weekly boarding basis aged 18-21. The aim being to better equip them to cope with any eventual success or failure in pro rugby. Caucau having been one of the most prominent but troubled on field successes who left the game with nothing.

Don't know much about the FFR / Top 14 Fiji links. It would be simple capitalist exploitation linked to globalisation. A just outcome would be to see more trickle down to the PI rugby players and clubs themselves - at all levels. I gather the Fijian President additionally contributes to the problem. After some of the turgid rugby this weekend, I'd love to have seen Fiji and a properly rewarded Fiji would have been even better.

Swindon Town is my footballing peccadillo and I lament the trawler-like hoovering of every conceivably promising youngster by Premiership clubs within the UK, never mind overseas. C'est la vie.
I imagine Willy was a born and bred Caledonian of Wallisien decent?
This was 2018 wrote:Forty teenagers are gathered outside a Fiji Rugby Union gym in Sigatoka, ready for a weights session. They are part of the Nadroga Academy. Later they will walk across to the senior team’s pitch to carry the province’s one scrum machine to their training area for a few drills. Their navy shirts feature the province’s stallion logo and that of Clermont Auvergne.
https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/p ... rt-93780/3

In 2014 (Ithink it was) Fiji schoolboys beat New Zealan schoolboys ... all of the Fijian lads had contracts the following day by accounts.

Of course you're correct that the money the lads earn will go back to Fiji in the main. But it's not good for test rugby.
Yes the Clermont link. And Willy MacFiefenua.

Not sure that inter island rivalry wouldn't get in the way but a funded and professionally coached Pacific Island Team could be even more box office than Fiji. And well marketed on top, they could be demanding AB type bucks from media and ticket sales just to show up. WR or the other authorities like to protect influence, tier 1 status and £££. The P islanders have the genes, it must be said.

Coincidentally, there's a short feature on page 1 of PR, top right, "Oceans Apart".
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TheFrog
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Re: Kilts vs Frogs

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I dislike poaching in rugby. While I respect the right of people to adopt a new country and to chose to become citizens of that country, it makes sense when that choice is a choice of heart. When this becomes a monetary motivation, it loses any meaning.

I don't know how poaching can be prevented through regulations precisely because of the right I mentioned above. A guy like Nakaitaci, for example, I believe to have truly elected France on grounds of genuine attachment to the country. It is a difficult subject really.

Yet at the same time, projects like the Nadroga academy could be good for Fijian rugby. And I believe that recent improvements in Fijian rugby standards are linked to Fijian players having access to professional clubs, training etc... sure, ideally you would want to see money invested directly in the country to help developing a sound professional structure but the country doesn't have the economy to sustain a professional championship.

It is a shame, Fiji are with Japan the countries I support after France.
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Re: Kilts vs Frogs

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TheFrog wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:47 pm I dislike poaching in rugby. While I respect the right of people to adopt a new country and to chose to become citizens of that country, it makes sense when that choice is a choice of heart. When this becomes a monetary motivation, it loses any meaning.

I don't know how poaching can be prevented through regulations precisely because of the right I mentioned above. A guy like Nakaitaci, for example, I believe to have truly elected France on grounds of genuine attachment to the country. It is a difficult subject really.

Yet at the same time, projects like the Nadroga academy could be good for Fijian rugby. And I believe that recent improvements in Fijian rugby standards are linked to Fijian players having access to professional clubs, training etc... sure, ideally you would want to see money invested directly in the country to help developing a sound professional structure but the country doesn't have the economy to sustain a professional championship.

It is a shame, Fiji are with Japan the countries I support after France.
You think that they have got better since France started taking their players instead of NZ or Aus?
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TheFrog
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Re: Kilts vs Frogs

Post by TheFrog »

message #2527204 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:48 pm
TheFrog wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:47 pm I dislike poaching in rugby. While I respect the right of people to adopt a new country and to chose to become citizens of that country, it makes sense when that choice is a choice of heart. When this becomes a monetary motivation, it loses any meaning.

I don't know how poaching can be prevented through regulations precisely because of the right I mentioned above. A guy like Nakaitaci, for example, I believe to have truly elected France on grounds of genuine attachment to the country. It is a difficult subject really.

Yet at the same time, projects like the Nadroga academy could be good for Fijian rugby. And I believe that recent improvements in Fijian rugby standards are linked to Fijian players having access to professional clubs, training etc... sure, ideally you would want to see money invested directly in the country to help developing a sound professional structure but the country doesn't have the economy to sustain a professional championship.

It is a shame, Fiji are with Japan the countries I support after France.
You think that they have got better since France started taking their players instead of NZ or Aus?
I don't think it's instead, it's in addition.
shereblue
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Kilts vs Frogs

Post by shereblue »

TheFrog wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:06 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:48 pm
TheFrog wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:47 pm I dislike poaching in rugby. While I respect the right of people to adopt a new country and to chose to become citizens of that country, it makes sense when that choice is a choice of heart. When this becomes a monetary motivation, it loses any meaning.

I don't know how poaching can be prevented through regulations precisely because of the right I mentioned above. A guy like Nakaitaci, for example, I believe to have truly elected France on grounds of genuine attachment to the country. It is a difficult subject really.

Yet at the same time, projects like the Nadroga academy could be good for Fijian rugby. And I believe that recent improvements in Fijian rugby standards are linked to Fijian players having access to professional clubs, training etc... sure, ideally you would want to see money invested directly in the country to help developing a sound professional structure but the country doesn't have the economy to sustain a professional championship.

It is a shame, Fiji are with Japan the countries I support after France.
You think that they have got better since France started taking their players instead of NZ or Aus?
I don't think it's instead, it's in addition.
Interesting pointers from Message and then Frog.
Prompted by your post, I took a look at some highlights of a Nadroga game and, tbf, however enjoyable and well contested, it didn't look very professional.
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