Is rugby a game for all sizes?

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nardol
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Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by nardol »

or is it a weight competition?


Obviously the concern here is that an arms race will start (not that it hasnt already) and a whole group of people will be excluded from the game.

The knock on impact is that there is an increasing likelihood of health implications. Both current in terms of players spending parts of their career injured and the long term issues that are well known.

Is it time to work with weight restrictions?

You wouldn't let Tyson box with McGregor at the peak of their powers as much as I would like that....
Or do we just accept there are only heavyweights in rugby and flyweights are not catered for?
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Flametop
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Flametop »

I blame the IRB.

They tweaked the laws so that forwards didn’t need to bother getting into rucks/mauls anymore.
So they just fan out in defence turning the game into rugby league. Bish bash bosh as there’s no space left to run into.
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Lemoentjie
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Lemoentjie »

Of course it's still a game for all sizes, as long as you're at least 1.80m tall and weigh over 95kg
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Gospel
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Gospel »

Lemoentjie wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:14 pm Of course it's still a game for all sizes, as long as you're at least 1.80m tall and weigh over 95kg
The little folk should just stick to sevens or touch.
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Is this a whinge about professional sides not picking midgets? Or is the answer ‘my local club would be happy to see new players, regardless of size and ability’?
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The Optimist
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by The Optimist »

I could never be an F1 driver... I'm blind, but Hamilton would make a great scrum half, in the Laidlaw vein... whiney bitch. :twisted:
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by danny_fitz »

Lemoentjie wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:14 pm Of course it's still a game for all sizes, as long as you're at least 1.80m tall and weigh over 95kg

Yup

When I hung up my boots I was playing 4th team rugby in the lower London leagues in what what have been 'beer rugby' twenty years ago. Even at that level back then the gym monkey big units had made their way onto the field as a common sight. They might have had tits for hands but as flat track bullies they were pretty effective and to be honest it was not much fun. In my pomp I was 95kg playing centre but I was far from the biggest on the field
Midfieldmaestro
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

yes in sa it is as could be seen at the WC in Cheslin Kolbe, Willie Le Roux and Faf de Klerk
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Jim Lahey »

Midfieldmaestro wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:33 pm yes in sa it is as could be seen at the WC in Cheslin Kolbe, Willie Le Roux and Faf de Klerk
You can carry 3 midgits when you have 12 other roided up meatheads around you.
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Floppykid »

12 has gone through a bad couple of years due to meathead ball.
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fonzeee
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by fonzeee »

Greig Laidlaw racked up 76 caps at 5'9" and 80 kgs. Next question.
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nardol
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by nardol »

fonzeee wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:51 pm Greig Laidlaw racked up 76 caps at 5'9" and 80 kgs. Next question.
Scotland
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earl the beaver
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by earl the beaver »

Michael Lowry is tearing up trees at fullback for Ulster and is about 5'4 and 6 stone.
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Rowdy
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Rowdy »

What about JPG yesterday?

Oh, sorry, as you were.
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Zakar
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Zakar »

nardol wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:47 pm
fonzeee wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:51 pm Greig Laidlaw racked up 76 caps at 5'9" and 80 kgs. Next question.
Scotland
Aaron Smith and Nic White are the same size. Faf is probably shorter.
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fonzeee
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by fonzeee »

nardol wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:47 pm
fonzeee wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:51 pm Greig Laidlaw racked up 76 caps at 5'9" and 80 kgs. Next question.
Scotland
Yes.
mdaclarke
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by mdaclarke »

Yes it is a game for all sizes but I think if you are small you have to be better/more skillfull than a bigger player in the same position (with the exception of Scrum and Fly Half when being too big can be a disadvantage)
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by fonzeee »

mdaclarke wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:48 pm Yes it is a game for all sizes but I think if you are small you have to be better/more skillfull than a bigger player in the same position (with the exception of Scrum and Fly Half when being too big can be a disadvantage)
This is true in every sport though
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earl the beaver
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by earl the beaver »

fonzeee wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:53 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:48 pm Yes it is a game for all sizes but I think if you are small you have to be better/more skillfull than a bigger player in the same position (with the exception of Scrum and Fly Half when being too big can be a disadvantage)
This is true in every sport though
Horse racing?
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kiap
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by kiap »

Lemoentjie wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:14 pm Of course it's still a game for all sizes, as long as you're at least 1.80m tall and weigh over 95kg
Possibly "or" rather than "and" ... nuggets under 1.80 can be found nearly everywhere except 4/5/6 (+8 at top level) , e.g. Tupou (130kg+) or even Hooper (around a buck even).

In fairness, light-ish players under 90kg tend to be restricted to halves or wing.

But, by and large, you're right.
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Zakar
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Zakar »

For pro players, there are ranges

Front row - 5'8 to 6'4 / 105kgs to 140ish
Second row - 6'4 to 6'11 / 110kgs to 140ish
6/8 - 6'2 to 6'6 /105 to 125 (although some teams will play a second 7)
7 - 5'9 to 6'4 / 95 to 110
9 - 5'6 to 6'2 / 75 to 90
10 - 5'8 to 6'2 / 75 to 100
Wings - 5'7 to 6'6 / 80 to 115
Centres - 5'8 to 6'4 / 85 to 115
Fullback - 5'8 to 6'5 /80 to 105

Obviously that's just an estimate, and you get the odd player that won't fit (e.g Harry Thacker), but broadly the majority of players fit in those ranges.
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Nieghorn »

Still true in the amateur world, thank Dog.

In the pro world, you have to be lightning fast to earn a spot on the wing (unless you're English, then wee blokes are told to fudge off to the NFL or stick with League), or have a brilliant pass/box kick/ability to manage the breakdown (or have dirt on your coach so you can get over 100 caps).
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Zakar
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Zakar »

Nieghorn wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:05 am Still true in the amateur world, thank Dog.

In the pro world, you have to be lightning fast to earn a spot on the wing (unless you're English, then wee blokes are told to fudge off to the NFL or stick with League), or have a brilliant pass/box kick/ability to manage the breakdown (or have dirt on your coach so you can get over 100 caps).
Why is that a problem?

It's a game for all shapes and sizes, not all ability levels.
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kiap
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by kiap »

Zakar wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 pm For pro players, there are ranges

Front row - 5'8 to 6'4 / 105kgs to 140ish
Second row - 6'4 to 6'11 / 110kgs to 140ish
6/8 - 6'2 to 6'6 /105 to 125 (although some teams will play a second 7)
7 - 5'9 to 6'4 / 95 to 110
9 - 5'6 to 6'2 / 75 to 90
10 - 5'8 to 6'2 / 75 to 100
Wings - 5'7 to 6'6 / 80 to 115
Centres - 5'8 to 6'4 / 85 to 115
Fullback - 5'8 to 6'5 /80 to 105

Obviously that's just an estimate, and you get the odd player that won't fit (e.g Harry Thacker), but broadly the majority of players fit in those ranges.
Wouldn't be too many (any?) 75 kg blokes in pro rugby, I would've thought. Closer to 85 the likely lightest, imo.

In amateur, maybe.... but even then that's underweight.

I'd add at least 5kg to your backline minimums.
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Zakar
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Zakar »

kiap wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:40 am
Zakar wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 pm For pro players, there are ranges

Front row - 5'8 to 6'4 / 105kgs to 140ish
Second row - 6'4 to 6'11 / 110kgs to 140ish
6/8 - 6'2 to 6'6 /105 to 125 (although some teams will play a second 7)
7 - 5'9 to 6'4 / 95 to 110
9 - 5'6 to 6'2 / 75 to 90
10 - 5'8 to 6'2 / 75 to 100
Wings - 5'7 to 6'6 / 80 to 115
Centres - 5'8 to 6'4 / 85 to 115
Fullback - 5'8 to 6'5 /80 to 105

Obviously that's just an estimate, and you get the odd player that won't fit (e.g Harry Thacker), but broadly the majority of players fit in those ranges.
Wouldn't be too many (any?) 75 kg blokes in pro rugby, I would've thought. Closer to 85 the likely lightest, imo.

In amateur, maybe.... but even then that's underweight.

I'd add at least 5kg to your backline minimums.
Plenty of 9s.

Nic White for one - he did a podcast with Matt Burke last year, and was asked by Matt If he was really 85kgs, and laughed and said something like 'there are a lot of backs that add 10kgs to their listed weight, and a lot of forwards that take 10kgs off.'
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by UncleFB »

Image
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by fonzeee »

Zakar wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:58 am
kiap wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:40 am
Zakar wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 pm For pro players, there are ranges

Front row - 5'8 to 6'4 / 105kgs to 140ish
Second row - 6'4 to 6'11 / 110kgs to 140ish
6/8 - 6'2 to 6'6 /105 to 125 (although some teams will play a second 7)
7 - 5'9 to 6'4 / 95 to 110
9 - 5'6 to 6'2 / 75 to 90
10 - 5'8 to 6'2 / 75 to 100
Wings - 5'7 to 6'6 / 80 to 115
Centres - 5'8 to 6'4 / 85 to 115
Fullback - 5'8 to 6'5 /80 to 105

Obviously that's just an estimate, and you get the odd player that won't fit (e.g Harry Thacker), but broadly the majority of players fit in those ranges.
Wouldn't be too many (any?) 75 kg blokes in pro rugby, I would've thought. Closer to 85 the likely lightest, imo.

In amateur, maybe.... but even then that's underweight.

I'd add at least 5kg to your backline minimums.
Plenty of 9s.

Nic White for one - he did a podcast with Matt Burke last year, and was asked by Matt If he was really 85kgs, and laughed and said something like 'there are a lot of backs that add 10kgs to their listed weight, and a lot of forwards that take 10kgs off.'
Yeah I thought about that too.

The NBA had to introduce strict new rules for height measurements last year, as it had been an open secret since forever that guys were adding as much as 2 to 3 inches to their listed height.

Everyone's fudging the numbers when it suits them.
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kiap
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by kiap »

Zakar wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:58 am
kiap wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:40 am
Zakar wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 pm For pro players, there are ranges

Front row - 5'8 to 6'4 / 105kgs to 140ish
Second row - 6'4 to 6'11 / 110kgs to 140ish
6/8 - 6'2 to 6'6 /105 to 125 (although some teams will play a second 7)
7 - 5'9 to 6'4 / 95 to 110
9 - 5'6 to 6'2 / 75 to 90
10 - 5'8 to 6'2 / 75 to 100
Wings - 5'7 to 6'6 / 80 to 115
Centres - 5'8 to 6'4 / 85 to 115
Fullback - 5'8 to 6'5 /80 to 105

Obviously that's just an estimate, and you get the odd player that won't fit (e.g Harry Thacker), but broadly the majority of players fit in those ranges.
Wouldn't be too many (any?) 75 kg blokes in pro rugby, I would've thought. Closer to 85 the likely lightest, imo.

In amateur, maybe.... but even then that's underweight.

I'd add at least 5kg to your backline minimums.
Plenty of 9s.

Nic White for one - he did a podcast with Matt Burke last year, and was asked by Matt If he was really 85kgs, and laughed and said something like 'there are a lot of backs that add 10kgs to their listed weight, and a lot of forwards that take 10kgs off.'
Righto, I'm skeptical but will have to take your word for it.

10 kegs when you're 140 is like 7%. At 75 it's 13% ... should be harder to get away with. :x

I mean, ... does he even lift, bro?
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Zakar
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Zakar »

kiap wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:20 am
Zakar wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:58 am
kiap wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:40 am
Zakar wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 pm For pro players, there are ranges

Front row - 5'8 to 6'4 / 105kgs to 140ish
Second row - 6'4 to 6'11 / 110kgs to 140ish
6/8 - 6'2 to 6'6 /105 to 125 (although some teams will play a second 7)
7 - 5'9 to 6'4 / 95 to 110
9 - 5'6 to 6'2 / 75 to 90
10 - 5'8 to 6'2 / 75 to 100
Wings - 5'7 to 6'6 / 80 to 115
Centres - 5'8 to 6'4 / 85 to 115
Fullback - 5'8 to 6'5 /80 to 105

Obviously that's just an estimate, and you get the odd player that won't fit (e.g Harry Thacker), but broadly the majority of players fit in those ranges.
Wouldn't be too many (any?) 75 kg blokes in pro rugby, I would've thought. Closer to 85 the likely lightest, imo.

In amateur, maybe.... but even then that's underweight.

I'd add at least 5kg to your backline minimums.
Plenty of 9s.

Nic White for one - he did a podcast with Matt Burke last year, and was asked by Matt If he was really 85kgs, and laughed and said something like 'there are a lot of backs that add 10kgs to their listed weight, and a lot of forwards that take 10kgs off.'
Righto, I'm skeptical but will have to take your word for it.

10 kegs when you're 140 is like 7%. At 75 it's 13% ... should be harder to get away with. :x

I mean, ... does he even lift, bro?
9s need to be super fit - won't be carrying any unneeded kegs if they can avoid it.
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mr bungle
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by mr bungle »

kiap wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:40 am
Zakar wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 pm For pro players, there are ranges

Front row - 5'8 to 6'4 / 105kgs to 140ish
Second row - 6'4 to 6'11 / 110kgs to 140ish
6/8 - 6'2 to 6'6 /105 to 125 (although some teams will play a second 7)
7 - 5'9 to 6'4 / 95 to 110
9 - 5'6 to 6'2 / 75 to 90
10 - 5'8 to 6'2 / 75 to 100
Wings - 5'7 to 6'6 / 80 to 115
Centres - 5'8 to 6'4 / 85 to 115
Fullback - 5'8 to 6'5 /80 to 105

Obviously that's just an estimate, and you get the odd player that won't fit (e.g Harry Thacker), but broadly the majority of players fit in those ranges.
Wouldn't be too many (any?) 75 kg blokes in pro rugby, I would've thought. Closer to 85 the likely lightest, imo.

In amateur, maybe.... but even then that's underweight.

I'd add at least 5kg to your backline minimums.
Simon Culhane bridged both amateur and pro and was 76kgs according to ABs.com. Even that could have been an exaggeration. Seems that guys like Aaron Smith are early 80s these days.
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by MungoMan »

Flametop wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:12 pm I blame the IRB.

They tweaked the laws so that forwards didn’t need to bother getting into rucks/mauls anymore.
So they just fan out in defence turning the game into rugby league. Bish bash bosh as there’s no space left to run into.
Placing a greater aerobic load on forwards isn't likely to to increase their average weight. The opposite is true, even for the same player.
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Flametop
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by Flametop »

MungoMan wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:52 am
Flametop wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:12 pm I blame the IRB.

They tweaked the laws so that forwards didn’t need to bother getting into rucks/mauls anymore.
So they just fan out in defence turning the game into rugby league. Bish bash bosh as there’s no space left to run into.
Placing a greater aerobic load on forwards isn't likely to to increase their average weight. The opposite is true, even for the same player.
Ask any MMA fighter and they will tell you that the wrestling is more tiring than anything.
Along side that, unloading the bench puts heavy lads with fresh legs on, negating the need to be as fit. A bit like but nowhere near American football.

But you missed my point. The issue is space, or lack of it.
The more space on the field, the more being nimble and light on your feet is an asset. Conversely the opposite is true which is what we have now.
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by bimboman »

fonzeee wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:51 pm Greig Laidlaw racked up 76 caps at 5'9" and 80 kgs. Next question.


Or average for his generation.
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by MrDominator »

nardol wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:07 pm or is it a weight competition?


Obviously the concern here is that an arms race will start (not that it hasnt already) and a whole group of people will be excluded from the game.

The knock on impact is that there is an increasing likelihood of health implications. Both current in terms of players spending parts of their career injured and the long term issues that are well known.

Is it time to work with weight restrictions?

You wouldn't let Tyson box with McGregor at the peak of their powers as much as I would like that....
Or do we just accept there are only heavyweights in rugby and flyweights are not catered for?
Have you only just noticed Ireland's genetic inferiority, son?

:lol:
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nardol
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by nardol »

MrDominator wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 am
nardol wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:07 pm or is it a weight competition?


Obviously the concern here is that an arms race will start (not that it hasnt already) and a whole group of people will be excluded from the game.

The knock on impact is that there is an increasing likelihood of health implications. Both current in terms of players spending parts of their career injured and the long term issues that are well known.

Is it time to work with weight restrictions?

You wouldn't let Tyson box with McGregor at the peak of their powers as much as I would like that....
Or do we just accept there are only heavyweights in rugby and flyweights are not catered for?
Have you only just noticed Ireland's genetic inferiority, son?

:lol:

Please dont stink up this thread. I am actually interested in opinions here and you just vomit and puke simultaneously all over the place. There are so many other threads for you to hit.
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Re: Is rugby a game for all sizes?

Post by OttawaKat »

Flametop wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:12 pm I blame the IRB.

They tweaked the laws so that forwards didn’t need to bother getting into rucks/mauls anymore.
So they just fan out in defence turning the game into rugby league. Bish bash bosh as there’s no space left to run into.
I really notice this on the rucks - players just fan out. What was the law change?

There was very little running rugby in the Scotland game.
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