Top 4 now South Africa, England, New Zealand and France

[mdaclarke]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

[franch fan]

At least, it reflects better the players pools of each country as they are by far the 4 countries with the biggest playing pools (particularly SA, Eng and Fra)

[MrDominator]

New Zealand won't be third for long.

A dominant Eng-Fra-SA axis is looming on the horizon, no mistake.

[franch fan]

New Zealand won't be third for long.

A dominant Eng-Fra-SA axis is looming on the horizon, no mistake.

NZ will always be there or abouts, their mini slump (which would be a great period for most international teams, don't forget their emphatic win in Oz) won't last long, they just need a few games to adapt to the loss of great players like Retallick or Read.

[Conspicuous]

New Zealand won't be third for long.

A dominant Eng-Fra-SA axis is looming on the horizon, no mistake.

Too early, most of the kiwi posters are asleep

[booze]

He’s probably not wrong though. NZ need to have a rethink about how we play the game right now, our tactics and what type of player are we producing to compete in international rugby.

It feels like we are like lots of SA sides in the past that the ABs beat regularly - as in being a bit behind or at odds with how the modern game is being played at test level. And we are slow to adapt.

[C69]

Argentina would beat France if France played like they did today

[eldanielfire]

He’s probably not wrong though. NZ need to have a rethink about how we play the game right now, our tactics and what type of player are we producing to compete in international rugby.

It feels like we are like lots of SA sides in the past that the ABs beat regularly - as in being a bit behind or at odds with how the modern game is being played at test level. And we are slow to adapt.

What's interesting is the current New Zealand side came off that 2011 U20 side which had won 4 U20 World cups in a row. They have won 2 since but they have gone from ever present finalists to not even making the finals or the Semi-Finals last year. Only the 2nd time ever and twice in the last 4 tournaments after that never happening in the previous 8.

I wonder is this a sign the gap has closed in grassroots development? Or that the dip in New Zealand's men's playing numbers is being reflected? Or something else?

[Hellraiser]

He’s probably not wrong though. NZ need to have a rethink about how we play the game right now, our tactics and what type of player are we producing to compete in international rugby.

It feels like we are like lots of SA sides in the past that the ABs beat regularly - as in being a bit behind or at odds with how the modern game is being played at test level. And we are slow to adapt.

Razor with the right staff around him will sort you out.

[Wendigo7]

New Zealand won't be third for long.

A dominant Eng-Fra-SA axis is looming on the horizon, no mistake.

Didn’t need a second invitation either.

[eldanielfire]

New Zealand won't be third for long.

A dominant Eng-Fra-SA axis is looming on the horizon, no mistake.

I recall in the late Woodward years he thought England should always play France last in the 6 Nations because the others weren't competitive. England then didn't win it for 8 years and now France haven't won it for a decade. There was a whole world cup cycle where only Wales and Ireland won it. Swings and roundabouts I suspect.

[Anonymous 1]

New Zealand won't be third for long.

A dominant Eng-Fra-SA axis is looming on the horizon, no mistake.

NZ will always be there or abouts, their mini slump (which would be a great period for most international teams, don't forget their emphatic win in Oz) won't last long, they just need a few games to adapt to the loss of great players like Retallick or Read.

They haven't lost the gargoyle he is just not playing as he was supposed to be playing in Japan and is now just having a rest. Most teams are never at full strength though. As far as adjusting to losing great players is concerned it's unlikely you will replace them with a great player so you are probably not going to be as good. Don't forget they didn't win the world cup last year either.

[kiwigreg369]

what will happen lower down?
Does Arg get a jump for drawing at all?

Or do Ireland, Aus just lose ground to France?

[kiap]

Does Arg get a jump for drawing at all?

Some points, yes.

[SilverGrin]

New Zealand won't be third for long.

A dominant Eng-Fra-SA axis is looming on the horizon, no mistake.

You know jack-shit. Argentina are coming for your cherry, coming in hard and sans-lube.

[TheFrog]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

[Monk Zombie]

i expect the Boks to slide into trough of mediocrity for a year or so when the likes Georgia will pinch test matches off us

[message #2527204]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

Based on what? .... not falling apart when England came back at them in a home test?

[Wendigo7]

We’ll be playing France at twickenham next week. Be interested to see how they do if we don’t give them any go forward which is entirely possible.

[message #2527204]

We’ll be playing France at twickenham next week. Be interested to see how they do if we don’t give them any go forward which is entirely possible.

It won't be that interesting if the FFR is unable to secure the release of their players.


BTW Did Boris announce that there'd be 4000 fans allowed in?

[TheFrog]

We’ll be playing France at twickenham next week. Be interested to see how they do if we don’t give them any go forward which is entirely possible.

It won't be that interesting if the FFR is unable to secure the release of their players.


BTW Did Boris announce that there'd be 4000 fans allowed in?

Sadly they haven't and the B side will line up against England.

[TheFrog]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

Based on what? .... not falling apart when England came back at them in a home test?

Based on France finishing second in the 6N for the first time in 8 years at least, winning 4 out of 5 for the first time in so many years too, scoring more tries in one 6N that in the last 4 years of test rugby before that, and indeed not falling apart when England came back at them.

I am not claiming France are the finished product, but they are coming back to the forefront with a very team that still has a lot of experience to build.

[message #2527204]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

Based on what? .... not falling apart when England came back at them in a home test?

Based on France finishing second in the 6N for the first time in 8 years at least, winning 4 out of 5 for the first time in so many years too, scoring more tries in one 6N that in the last 4 years of test rugby before that, and indeed not falling apart when England came back at them.

I am not claiming France are the finished product, but they are coming back to the forefront with a very team that still has a lot of experience to build.

One swallow does not a summer make.

Three home games, and one of those you lost to Scotland (FFS!)

[TheFrog]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

Based on what? .... not falling apart when England came back at them in a home test?

Based on France finishing second in the 6N for the first time in 8 years at least, winning 4 out of 5 for the first time in so many years too, scoring more tries in one 6N that in the last 4 years of test rugby before that, and indeed not falling apart when England came back at them.

I am not claiming France are the finished product, but they are coming back to the forefront with a very team that still has a lot of experience to build.

One swallow does not a summer make.

Three home games, and one of those you lost to Scotland (FFS!)

I guess you did not follow France in the last 8 years. France first win in Scotland in 6 years came last week. Just for context.

There is huge improvement. I repeat, I didn't say they are the finished product. If you compare them to England for example, they are not half as battle hardened as them.

[message #2527204]

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

Based on what? .... not falling apart when England came back at them in a home test?

Based on France finishing second in the 6N for the first time in 8 years at least, winning 4 out of 5 for the first time in so many years too, scoring more tries in one 6N that in the last 4 years of test rugby before that, and indeed not falling apart when England came back at them.

I am not claiming France are the finished product, but they are coming back to the forefront with a very team that still has a lot of experience to build.

One swallow does not a summer make.

Three home games, and one of those you lost to Scotland (FFS!)

I guess you did not follow France in the last 8 years. France first win in Scotland in 6 years came last week. Just for context.

There is huge improvement. I repeat, I didn't say they are the finished product. If you compare them to England for example, they are not half as battle hardened as them.

Big, technically suspect, forwards, with bigger ones coming on late in the game. Big, good backs. Always been there.
The only difference is the buy-in to Edwards defence (meaning fitter rather than fatter), and one gifted halfback.

But yes, I do see you're saying it's not there yet.

[Clogs]

Seems to be about spot on.

[OomStruisbaai]

Sad to see England at 2nd.

[Rowdy]

Will you feel better when we're first, oom?

[shereblue]

Based on what? .... not falling apart when England came back at them in a home test?

Based on France finishing second in the 6N for the first time in 8 years at least, winning 4 out of 5 for the first time in so many years too, scoring more tries in one 6N that in the last 4 years of test rugby before that, and indeed not falling apart when England came back at them.

I am not claiming France are the finished product, but they are coming back to the forefront with a very team that still has a lot of experience to build.

One swallow does not a summer make.

Three home games, and one of those you lost to Scotland (FFS!)

I guess you did not follow France in the last 8 years. France first win in Scotland in 6 years came last week. Just for context.

There is huge improvement. I repeat, I didn't say they are the finished product. If you compare them to England for example, they are not half as battle hardened as them.

Big, technically suspect, forwards, with bigger ones coming on late in the game. Big, good backs. Always been there.
The only difference is the buy-in to Edwards defence (meaning fitter rather than fatter), and one gifted halfback.

But yes, I do see you're saying it's not there yet.

There is some cause for optimism in that there is room for improvement due to the high proportion of very young players. There is already strong talent which is still capable of significant improvement. France has always been the side to watch because they hit the highest heights and implode in the most extraordinary way. If Sean Edwards isn't guillotined in favour of cassoulet and Gauloises, then the implosions may become much rarer. There are serious shortages in certain positions, such as lock, and these might be obscured by the scale of the changes to be made in the remaining Autumn nations' matches. A little like Brexit may be by Covid .

[booze]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

Based on what? .... not falling apart when England came back at them in a home test?

Just look at their track record. They are the most wildly inconsistent international side

[TheFrog]

Based on France finishing second in the 6N for the first time in 8 years at least, winning 4 out of 5 for the first time in so many years too, scoring more tries in one 6N that in the last 4 years of test rugby before that, and indeed not falling apart when England came back at them.

I am not claiming France are the finished product, but they are coming back to the forefront with a very team that still has a lot of experience to build.

One swallow does not a summer make.

Three home games, and one of those you lost to Scotland (FFS!)

I guess you did not follow France in the last 8 years. France first win in Scotland in 6 years came last week. Just for context.

There is huge improvement. I repeat, I didn't say they are the finished product. If you compare them to England for example, they are not half as battle hardened as them.

Big, technically suspect, forwards, with bigger ones coming on late in the game. Big, good backs. Always been there.
The only difference is the buy-in to Edwards defence (meaning fitter rather than fatter), and one gifted halfback.

But yes, I do see you're saying it's not there yet.

There is some cause for optimism in that there is room for improvement due to the high proportion of very young players. There is already strong talent which is still capable of significant improvement. France has always been the side to watch because they hit the highest heights and implode in the most extraordinary way. If Sean Edwards isn't guillotined in favour of cassoulet and Gauloises, then the implosions may become much rarer. There are serious shortages in certain positions, such as lock, and these might be obscured by the scale of the changes to be made in the remaining Autumn nations' matches. A little like Brexit may be by Covid .

We are short of depth at tight head prop too. And we don't have world class full backs. They are good first division players but not international standards yet. Wings remain so so. Bar Penaud, there is not top notch player and Penaud is made of crystal.

[shereblue]

One swallow does not a summer make.

Three home games, and one of those you lost to Scotland (FFS!)

I guess you did not follow France in the last 8 years. France first win in Scotland in 6 years came last week. Just for context.

There is huge improvement. I repeat, I didn't say they are the finished product. If you compare them to England for example, they are not half as battle hardened as them.

Big, technically suspect, forwards, with bigger ones coming on late in the game. Big, good backs. Always been there.
The only difference is the buy-in to Edwards defence (meaning fitter rather than fatter), and one gifted halfback.

But yes, I do see you're saying it's not there yet.

There is some cause for optimism in that there is room for improvement due to the high proportion of very young players. There is already strong talent which is still capable of significant improvement. France has always been the side to watch because they hit the highest heights and implode in the most extraordinary way. If Sean Edwards isn't guillotined in favour of cassoulet and Gauloises, then the implosions may become much rarer. There are serious shortages in certain positions, such as lock, and these might be obscured by the scale of the changes to be made in the remaining Autumn nations' matches. A little like Brexit may be by Covid .

We are short of depth at tight head prop too. And we don't have world class full backs. They are good first division players but not international standards yet. Wings remain so so. Bar Penaud, there is not top notch player and Penaud is made of crystal.

Indeed. Increasingly, national sides can rarely rely on their strongest XV. I suspect France may be less able to field 2 XVs of erratic but equal merit than in the past.

[OomStruisbaai]

Will you feel better when we're first, oom?

not at all. 5th will be better.

[OomStruisbaai]

France always have the potential. Since they won the u20 WC they got the structure in place.

Allez de Bluer!

[Anonymous 1]

Top 4 in the world rankings are now:

1 South Africa 94.20
2 England 88.73
3 New Zealand 88.17
4 France 85.66

With Covid and how the way the ruby world is, I think these will be the top 4 (minus the odd interloper) for many years as these are the 3 countries with most cattle (and New Zealand), what are your views?

This doesn't give much credit to Argentina though...

France are on a comeback for sure after close to 10 years of appaling results.

Plus it's only last year both Ireland and Wales occupied the number 1 spot. Shows things can change dramatically in a short period of time

[TheFrog]

I guess you did not follow France in the last 8 years. France first win in Scotland in 6 years came last week. Just for context.

There is huge improvement. I repeat, I didn't say they are the finished product. If you compare them to England for example, they are not half as battle hardened as them.

Big, technically suspect, forwards, with bigger ones coming on late in the game. Big, good backs. Always been there.
The only difference is the buy-in to Edwards defence (meaning fitter rather than fatter), and one gifted halfback.

But yes, I do see you're saying it's not there yet.

There is some cause for optimism in that there is room for improvement due to the high proportion of very young players. There is already strong talent which is still capable of significant improvement. France has always been the side to watch because they hit the highest heights and implode in the most extraordinary way. If Sean Edwards isn't guillotined in favour of cassoulet and Gauloises, then the implosions may become much rarer. There are serious shortages in certain positions, such as lock, and these might be obscured by the scale of the changes to be made in the remaining Autumn nations' matches. A little like Brexit may be by Covid .

We are short of depth at tight head prop too. And we don't have world class full backs. They are good first division players but not international standards yet. Wings remain so so. Bar Penaud, there is not top notch player and Penaud is made of crystal.

Indeed. Increasingly, national sides can rarely rely on their strongest XV. I suspect France may be less able to field 2 XVs of erratic but equal merit than in the past.

Dublin to play FB against Italy... says a lot about our depth in the 15 jersey.

Below is the team for the Italy game and likely for the end of the tournament:

15. Dulin ; 14. Thomas, 13. Barraque, 12. Danty, 11. Villière ; 10. Jalibert, Serin (cap) ; 7. Macalou, 8. Jelonch, 6. Woki ; 5. Pesenti, 4. Geraci ; 3. Aldegheri, 2. Mauvaka, 1. Neti.

[Mr Mike]

Dublin to play FB against Italy...

This poaching is getting out of hand.

[TheFrog]

Dublin to play FB against Italy...

This poaching is getting out of hand.

Good catch.

[Clog50Percent]

Its 2020 it doesnt count

[Clogs]

Its 2020 it doesnt count

Was that taken directly from the SA Rugby excuse book?