Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

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mdaclarke
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Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by mdaclarke »

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/sad-to-s ... ity-rules/

Some saying he shouldn't play for Scotland any more.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Jim Lahey »

You can understand his reasons for playing for Scotland and for moving for more money to Worcester, but it just shows how shallow the international game is becoming in the NH.

Project players are a cancer on the sport. 6N rugby should be blood and guts stuff, trying to beat teams you’ve grown up admiring/hating. Mercs just don’t fit that bill.
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Jim Lahey wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:36 pm You can understand his reasons for playing for Scotland and for moving for more money to Worcester, but it just shows how shallow the international game is becoming in the NH.

Project players are a cancer on the sport. 6N rugby should be blood and guts stuff, trying to beat teams you’ve grown up admiring/hating. Mercs just don’t fit that bill.
Some do, some don't tbf.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Jim Lahey »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:37 pm
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:36 pm You can understand his reasons for playing for Scotland and for moving for more money to Worcester, but it just shows how shallow the international game is becoming in the NH.

Project players are a cancer on the sport. 6N rugby should be blood and guts stuff, trying to beat teams you’ve grown up admiring/hating. Mercs just don’t fit that bill.
Some do, some don't tbf.
I have a lot of time for CJ and for Bundee. Both very fine and committed players, and good blokes too by all accounts. Can’t fault their achievements in Irish rugby.
But that doesn’t mean that they should have ever worn green in the first place.
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Jim Lahey wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:39 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:37 pm
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:36 pm You can understand his reasons for playing for Scotland and for moving for more money to Worcester, but it just shows how shallow the international game is becoming in the NH.

Project players are a cancer on the sport. 6N rugby should be blood and guts stuff, trying to beat teams you’ve grown up admiring/hating. Mercs just don’t fit that bill.
Some do, some don't tbf.
I have a lot of time for CJ and for Bundee. Both very fine and committed players, and good blokes too by all accounts. Can’t fault their achievements in Irish rugby.
But that doesn’t mean that they should have ever worn green in the first place.
I think the fact that I come from an emigration riddled part of the island makes me view these things a little differently than most.
mdaclarke
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by mdaclarke »

Jim Lahey wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:36 pm You can understand his reasons for playing for Scotland and for moving for more money to Worcester, but it just shows how shallow the international game is becoming in the NH.

Project players are a cancer on the sport. 6N rugby should be blood and guts stuff, trying to beat teams you’ve grown up admiring/hating. Mercs just don’t fit that bill.
Agree with this 100%, every word.
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Edinburgh01
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Edinburgh fans are unhappy to see him go, but very few begrudge him his contract. Most recognise we have had one of the most dangerous wings in the Pro14 on the cheap for a while. Now he is capped his value has gone up and he has had good offers from elsewhere. In a sport where a career can end in an instant, making a move which helps ensure his financial future is only to be expected.

There are a lot of Edinburgh talent that other clubs will be chasing coming out of contract. It has been clear for a while that Edinburgh would be unable to keep them all. He is leaving part way through his contract so it is fairly clear Edinburgh needed to release the funds to use to keep others. Re-signing Watson was unexpected so the money is being put to good use. Better to lose one and keep others than try and keep them all and lose several.

We recognise that we do not have the budgets other clubs have and will lose players from time to time because of that. We may not be happy with that, but recognise the reality.
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lorcanoworms
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by lorcanoworms »

His mom says she named him after Johnny Duhan the Limerick rock singer, no I don't mean rock versions of Limericks.
Anyhow the guy is a rat an ingrate.
backrow
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by backrow »

In a not so parallel universe, this could have been my brother in law: he was junior rep grade in SA and was in same school and rep teams as a certain Cylde Rathbone, and because of being honky went and sought pro rugby life in Edinburgh via his fathers birthplace around the same time Rathbone became an Aussie.
Sadly it was a cold winter that year which he detested, wasn’t getting enough gametime at the feeder club he was at in Edinburgh at wing, was flat broke, and was missing his then fiancée , so he didn’t return after flying home for Christmas.
His sponsor was that John Allan guy.
mdaclarke
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by mdaclarke »

Edinburgh01 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:48 pm Edinburgh fans are unhappy to see him go, but very few begrudge him his contract. Most recognise we have had one of the most dangerous wings in the Pro14 on the cheap for a while. Now he is capped his value has gone up and he has had good offers from elsewhere. In a sport where a career can end in an instant, making a move which helps ensure his financial future is only to be expected.

There are a lot of Edinburgh talent that other clubs will be chasing coming out of contract. It has been clear for a while that Edinburgh would be unable to keep them all. He is leaving part way through his contract so it is fairly clear Edinburgh needed to release the funds to use to keep others. Re-signing Watson was unexpected so the money is being put to good use. Better to lose one and keep others than try and keep them all and lose several.

We recognise that we do not have the budgets other clubs have and will lose players from time to time because of that. We may not be happy with that, but recognise the reality.
I think the main issue is that it demeans the Scotland badge. You will have a player playing for Scotland who's sole connection is that he played for Edinburgh for 3 years.

As soon as he got the 3 years he was off. Yet I imagine he still wants to play.
backrow
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by backrow »

mdaclarke wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:53 am
Edinburgh01 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:48 pm Edinburgh fans are unhappy to see him go, but very few begrudge him his contract. Most recognise we have had one of the most dangerous wings in the Pro14 on the cheap for a while. Now he is capped his value has gone up and he has had good offers from elsewhere. In a sport where a career can end in an instant, making a move which helps ensure his financial future is only to be expected.

There are a lot of Edinburgh talent that other clubs will be chasing coming out of contract. It has been clear for a while that Edinburgh would be unable to keep them all. He is leaving part way through his contract so it is fairly clear Edinburgh needed to release the funds to use to keep others. Re-signing Watson was unexpected so the money is being put to good use. Better to lose one and keep others than try and keep them all and lose several.

We recognise that we do not have the budgets other clubs have and will lose players from time to time because of that. We may not be happy with that, but recognise the reality.
I think the main issue is that it demeans the Scotland badge. You will have a player playing for Scotland who's sole connection is that he played for Edinburgh for 3 years.

As soon as he got the 3 years he was off. Yet I imagine he still wants to play.
Is he still eligable for Scotland if playing at Worcester ?

Sadly this is all just what pro sport is about.
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Edinburgh01
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Edinburgh01 »

mdaclarke wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:53 amI think the main issue is that it demeans the Scotland badge. You will have a player playing for Scotland who's sole connection is that he played for Edinburgh for 3 years.

As soon as he got the 3 years he was off. Yet I imagine he still wants to play.
Scotland has a tiny player base. In the 50 plus years that I have been involved in rugby there have been plenty of players picked with very tenuous connections. They have just not been as obvious as they had less foreign names.

Scotland picks the best players who are eligible. Speaking as someone who has represented Scotland (though not at rugby) I am content with that.
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Plenty of 'scottish' scottish players have pissed off to england and france over the years tbf.
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Trostan »

For me, it is play the best available if we want to keep international rugby "balanced"

I want to go to Lansdowne Road 6 Nations matches and see players who match the occasion.

10 minutes to go and 6 points behind and pro international players will give it all , irrespective of their qualification status
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Jim Lahey »

Trostan wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:07 pm For me, it is play the best available if we want to keep international rugby "balanced"

I want to go to Lansdowne Road 6 Nations matches and see players who match the occasion.

10 minutes to go and 6 points behind and pro international players will give it all , irrespective of their qualification status
I would respectfully disagree.
Thats what club rugby is for imo. The line between the two is getting too blurry.
International rugby should be about representing the country you grew up dreaming of playing for. Having a connection with the anthem, the history, the supporters etc. I want to see born and bred Irishmen fighting with born and bred Scots/Welsh/English/French.
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nardol
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by nardol »

backrow wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am In a not so parallel universe, this could have been my brother in law: he was junior rep grade in SA and was in same school and rep teams as a certain Cylde Rathbone, and because of being honky went and sought pro rugby life in Edinburgh via his fathers birthplace around the same time Rathbone became an Aussie.
Sadly it was a cold winter that year which he detested, wasn’t getting enough gametime at the feeder club he was at in Edinburgh at wing, was flat broke, and was missing his then fiancée , so he didn’t return after flying home for Christmas.
His sponsor was that John Allan guy.
So Globby didnt die of the coronavirus then?
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blindcider
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by blindcider »

Its not ideal but with only two pro teams, Scottish rugby needs to develop and shift on players or they will push out of the game or to other countries their talented youngsters
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Leinsterman
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by Leinsterman »

Jim Lahey wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:35 pm
Trostan wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:07 pm For me, it is play the best available if we want to keep international rugby "balanced"

I want to go to Lansdowne Road 6 Nations matches and see players who match the occasion.

10 minutes to go and 6 points behind and pro international players will give it all , irrespective of their qualification status
I would respectfully disagree.
Thats what club rugby is for imo. The line between the two is getting too blurry.
International rugby should be about representing the country you grew up dreaming of playing for. Having a connection with the anthem, the history, the supporters etc. I want to see born and bred Irishmen fighting with born and bred Scots/Welsh/English/French.
Professional sport and those aspirations just don't go together anymore.
mdaclarke
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by mdaclarke »

Agree with this from Planet Rugby

https://www.planetrugby.com/loose-pass- ... eadership/

Team player for hire (high bids only please)
Mercenaries are often nicknamed guns for hire, an epithet which seems particularly apt when you consider Worcester’s recent 1m 97, 105kg wing signing from Edinburgh.

This is not a direct criticism of Duhan van der Merwe’s character per se, as there is little doubt that the shady world of agentism has also played its part in his decision to head south mere weeks after qualifying for Scotland through residency.

But the soundbite from – what a coincidence – Van der Merwe’s compatriot, Worcester coach Alan Solomons, about the former’s arrival at Sixways: “…he is also a first class bloke and team man” will be ringing somewhat hollow in Edinburgh, and most likely elsewhere as well.

The move epitomises everything wrong with rugby’s bizarre residency qualification rules at the moment. Van der Merwe moved to Scotland in 2017. He lived there for three years, served an extra year of paid-up patience while the rules were re-written for covid, qualified for Scotland, scored a try in an international match, and has promptly left Scotland without a twitch for England’s Premiership.

He may well continue to play for Scotland as he’s a good player, but is this the kind of player Scotland’s fans and administrators really want? Is there the national passion, the dreams of sending King Edward’s army homeward, the heritage, running through his veins?

If Scotland are smashed financially because of the Covid crisis and need to make cuts, would this guy be Scottish enough to don the jersey for free like most of his team-mates?

Or is this a rugby gun for hire, cold talent available to the highest bidder, here as long as the cash holds out and the dreams of international rugby don’t turn too sour, ready to go home as soon as the going gets tough?

Time will tell. But the manner in which this has all worked out is a terrible look, as well as a sure sign that Scottish rugby is continuing to struggle against the economic might of others.
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terangi48
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by terangi48 »

Set the qualification period to six years for every merc........and pay the country of origin $1,000,000 for their development.
mdaclarke
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by mdaclarke »

terangi48 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:06 pm Set the qualification period to six years for every merc........and pay the country of origin $1,000,000 for their development.
I would also add that they can only play whilst they are playing their club rugby in the adopted country
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blindcider
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by blindcider »

terangi48 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:06 pm Set the qualification period to six years for every merc........and pay the country of origin $1,000,000 for their development.
How would that work for someone with a circumstance like the Vunipolas?

Whats/Who is to define if someone is a mercenary or not anyway? No-one but the player can know their motivations.
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A5D5E5
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

Post by A5D5E5 »

terangi48 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:06 pm Set the qualification period to six years for every merc........and pay the country of origin $1,000,000 for their development.
I'd certainly have no problem with a much longer qualification period. But payment to the "country" of origin wouldn't work when you have clubs doing the development in some cases and in others the development mostly being done after a "merc" has moved with their parents.

I also like the idea that residence qualification is a temporary status, not a permanent one so if you move on, you lose it.

I'd also amend the grandparent rule so you have to have at least 2 or 3 grandparents from a country to qualify for them automatically (actually, if I was God-Emperor, I'd scrap it altogether but I assume that wouldn't get widespread acceptance).
Last edited by A5D5E5 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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A5D5E5
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Re: Edinburgh Fans unhappy with Duhan

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