Best Rock Guitarist

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Eugenius
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by Eugenius »

Keith Levene

Adrian Belew

Alister Parker (NZL)
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mr bungle
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by mr bungle »

Eugenius wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:34 am

Alister Parker (NZL)
Bailterspace are so fucking good.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by DragsterDriver »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:21 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:50 pm
Fat Old Git wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:45 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:40 pm
Short Man Syndrome wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:22 pm

Spend the first 20mins of any practice/learning session building up the strength, control and dexterity in your fingers. If you only try to play chords, etc. It’ll take you ages, you’ll get dispirited and give up, like 90% of people do.
:thumbup:

Guess i'll have a piss around to begin with.
Keep the guitar somewhere handy to where you usually are at home so it's easy to pick up and piss around with even if only for a couple of minutes at a time. If you have to make a special effort everytime you want to play it, you will probably hardly ever do it.
I'll be home in an outbuilding for a few weeks with nothing to do, got loads of time to kill!
Youtube is excellent for learning stuff - I picked up a VOX socket mini amp that plugs directly into the Cable jack and then outputs to headphones.

I've probably learned more in the last 3 months from picking it up every day than in decades!
It’s a Jackson guitar and a Blackstar amp- far better than what I need!

Ok guitar is hard. My fingers are plenty strong and pretty resilient from manual work but....how the fück can people do a B minor :shock:
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

This is what I’m talking about! You need to build up strength in micro-motions. Lifting heavy weights is completely different to applying pressure rapidly and accurately through your fingers.

Place your index finger on the lowest/thickest string on the 3rd fret and play that note. Now put your middle finger on the same string in the next fret up and play. Repeat for all 4 fingers. Move to next string, repeat. Repeat all way up to top string, then reverse process coming back down from little finger to index on all strings.

Do that ten times a day, watch results happen!

Edit: this idiot has the right idea: https://youtu.be/k5FdoBGXYlA
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by DragsterDriver »

Short Man Syndrome wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:36 pm This is what I’m talking about! You need to build up strength in micro-motions. Lifting heavy weights is completely different to applying pressure rapidly and accurately through your fingers.

Place your index finger on the lowest/thickest string on the 3rd fret and play that note. Now put your middle finger on the same string in the next fret up and play. Repeat for all 4 fingers. Move to next string, repeat. Repeat all way up to top string, then reverse process coming back down from little finger to index on all strings.

Do that ten times a day, watch results happen!

Edit: this idiot has the right idea: https://youtu.be/k5FdoBGXYlA
I’ll give that a go :thumbup:
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by DragsterDriver »

Jeez that looks hard on YouTube, his left hand is like a demented spider. Wishing I’d borrowed a drum kit now :o I’m realistic- I’ll never be any good but at some point I’d like to be able to play something very basic and that’s good enough.
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mr bungle
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by mr bungle »

"This idiot" :lol: :thumbup: Looking good, mate.
Mick Mannock
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by Mick Mannock »

It’s a Jackson guitar and a Blackstar amp- far better than what I need!

Ok guitar is hard. My fingers are plenty strong and pretty resilient from manual work but....how the fück can people do a B minor :shock:
Which B min?

There are several positions. I can play some, but not others.
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A5D5E5
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by A5D5E5 »

DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:10 pm
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:21 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:50 pm
Fat Old Git wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:45 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:40 pm

:thumbup:

Guess i'll have a piss around to begin with.
Keep the guitar somewhere handy to where you usually are at home so it's easy to pick up and piss around with even if only for a couple of minutes at a time. If you have to make a special effort everytime you want to play it, you will probably hardly ever do it.
I'll be home in an outbuilding for a few weeks with nothing to do, got loads of time to kill!
Youtube is excellent for learning stuff - I picked up a VOX socket mini amp that plugs directly into the Cable jack and then outputs to headphones.

I've probably learned more in the last 3 months from picking it up every day than in decades!
It’s a Jackson guitar and a Blackstar amp- far better than what I need!

Ok guitar is hard. My fingers are plenty strong and pretty resilient from manual work but....how the fück can people do a B minor :shock:
Everyone goes through that phase. If you keep at it then it won't take long before it becomes second nature.

SMS is (of course) absolutely right, but I'd just add one other comment re "strength" - it isn't the sort of strength you get from picking up heavy weights you need - there are kids of 8 who can play Bm all day. In fact, if you are trying to force the strings down too hard you are doing it wrong - which short term will lead to muscle cramps and longer term will mean your technique is poor. If you push down too hard on the strings you will be bending them slightly sharp (or quite a lot sharp for the thicker strings).

Positioning your fingers is really important. Make sure your index finger is relaxed and slightly behind the fret, as vertical as you can get it (though some slant is almost inevitable near the nut and as you improve, you will get a feel for how much you can get away with). Getting your thumb position right is key here - it needs to be pointing at the ceiling (assuming you are not playing "thumb over" Hendrix style). For your other fingers, make sure you are using the finger tips - about 1mm from the nail, not the bit where your fingerprints are.
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Very good post, A5... spot on about strength and applying too much pressure - and only using the very tips... a light touch is best but if your fingertips are not yet calloused enough to transfer pressure effectively, more pressure will be required.

I take issue with your thumb positioning, though. Ideal thumb placement would be with your thumb pointing along the neck towards the tuning pegs. It's a more natural and relaxed positioning which allows pressure to be exerted without putting any strain on the thumb or the hand itself.

edit - and cheers, Mr B!
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A5D5E5
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by A5D5E5 »

Short Man Syndrome wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:41 pm Very good post, A5... spot on about strength and applying too much pressure - and only using the very tips... a light touch is best but if your fingertips are not yet calloused enough to transfer pressure effectively, more pressure will be required.

I take issue with your thumb positioning, though. Ideal thumb placement would be with your thumb pointing along the neck towards the tuning pegs. It's a more natural and relaxed positioning which allows pressure to be exerted without putting any strain on the thumb or the hand itself.

edit - and cheers, Mr B!
Interesting - I find it much easier with my thumb pointing upwards - I find the neck sits more naturally in my hand, gives me something to push against and helps when I switch to thumb over. I suspect that being taught classical guitar for years before I discovered electricity also pays a significant role in it.

I do agree though that whatever position you use it has to be comfortable and not put strain on the thumb or hand.
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Ah, well - that explains it! You classical bods are lunatics for technique! I think there are relative merits to different thumbings but for beginners I would suggest starting with thumbs pointing down the neck. That said, there are probably people who would find it easier and more natural with the thumb at a right angle. I'm trying to train myself to use more of a claw grip, with only thumb and finger tips touching the neck, which is only really feasible with the thumb at a right angle.

It's a bit like golf, though - the better you get, you more you realise how the micro-details can matter... but at first, you just want to master the basic fundamentals.

I'm SHIT at golf.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by DragsterDriver »

I think hand tightness is a massive problem-my fingers are strong enough from gripping things all day but i can't move them far enough apart :shock:

I need to do loads of that moving up and down like the youtube video and make them a lot more mobile and dexterous! In comparison mine are like stumpy clamps.
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A5D5E5
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by A5D5E5 »

Short Man Syndrome wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:26 pm Ah, well - that explains it! You classical bods are lunatics for technique! I think there are relative merits to different thumbings but for beginners I would suggest starting with thumbs pointing down the neck. That said, there are probably people who would find it easier and more natural with the thumb at a right angle. I'm trying to train myself to use more of a claw grip, with only thumb and finger tips touching the neck, which is only really feasible with the thumb at a right angle.

It's a bit like golf, though - the better you get, you more you realise how the micro-details can matter... but at first, you just want to master the basic fundamentals.

I'm SHIT at golf.
I'm hardly a classical bod - the only classical piece I've played in 30 years is Cavatina. But those first few years are the basis of my technique for sure.

By "claw" technique, do you mean like Michael Angelo Batio - he never seems to have more than about half a millimetre between his fingertips and the strings (not that I can stand the sound he then makes, you can't help but be amazed at how he does it).
Last edited by A5D5E5 on Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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A5D5E5
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by A5D5E5 »

DragsterDriver wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:56 pm I think hand tightness is a massive problem-my fingers are strong enough from gripping things all day but i can't move them far enough apart :shock:

I need to do loads of that moving up and down like the youtube video and make them a lot more mobile and dexterous! In comparison mine are like stumpy clamps.
Unfortunately there just isn't a shortcut to that - and in truth, you probably won't ever have the flexibility of somebody who has played guitar all their life. But it will improve - my father-in-law started playing guitar several years ago in his late 50s. Initially, his left hand may as well have been made of stone. But it got better and now it isn't really an obstacle to him playing at all.
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

A5D5E5 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:58 pm By "claw" technique, do you mean like Michael Angelo Batio - he never seems to have more than about half a millimetre between his fingertips and the strings (not that I can stand the sound he then makes, you can't help but be amazed at how he does it).
Yes, something like that! It helps with economy of movement but I agree with you, I’m not a fan of his music. He’s a very good teacher though, I enjoy his lessons but I don’t see the point in playing a million pointless notes when it’s hard enough to play three notes that mean something.
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A5D5E5
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Re: Best Rock Guitarist

Post by A5D5E5 »

Short Man Syndrome wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:55 pm
A5D5E5 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:58 pm By "claw" technique, do you mean like Michael Angelo Batio - he never seems to have more than about half a millimetre between his fingertips and the strings (not that I can stand the sound he then makes, you can't help but be amazed at how he does it).
Yes, something like that! It helps with economy of movement but I agree with you, I’m not a fan of his music. He’s a very good teacher though, I enjoy his lessons but I don’t see the point in playing a million pointless notes when it’s hard enough to play three notes that mean something.
Yes - I've certainly picked up a few things from his left hand technique - though I'm miles away from being a shredder. His picking is both awesome and horrific at the same time. He is an excellent teacher (I think he did a music degree so he knows what he is talking about), seems like a decent guy and he doesn't take himself too seriously. Musically though he is basically an arpeggiator in a wig.
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