Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

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Zakar
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Zakar »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:10 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:51 pm
Ellafan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:47 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:33 pm
Ellafan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:29 pm What are chinos?
Its funny you should say that because I had to look them up, via Google of course. I mean, I have heard the word used before but I didn't really know what they were. Apparently they are men's pants made of course cotton, that can be worn to work on Casual Friday.
I had a linen suit I used to wear to the track. Is that the sort of thing you mean?
Not quite linen. I think cinos are similar, but more robust. Just check with Pat thoughm because he apparently wears them.
Fark me - you've never heard of Chinos?!

:lol:
f**king boggles the mind. :lol:

Queenslanders probably wear stubbies and thongs to a black tie gala, but how does Ellafan not know what they are?
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Farva »

When I think of Chino's I always picture Ned Hanigan.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Slim 293 »

Farva wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:40 am When I think of Chino's I always picture Ned Hanigan.
Lightweight material, soft, yet...durable?
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by MungoMan »

Slim 293 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:00 am
Farva wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:40 am When I think of Chino's I always picture Ned Hanigan.
Lightweight material, soft, yet...durable?
Beige
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Farva »

Slim 293 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:00 am
Farva wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:40 am When I think of Chino's I always picture Ned Hanigan.
Lightweight material, soft, yet...durable?
Often picked because you look the part, not because you perform...
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Sensible Stephen »

Farva wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:48 am
Slim 293 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:00 am
Farva wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:40 am When I think of Chino's I always picture Ned Hanigan.
Lightweight material, soft, yet...durable?
Often picked because you look the part, not because you perform...
Are you... bad mouthing chinos?? Retract your comments now!
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by jdogscoop »

Chinos vary in quality and design.

You have the loose, pleated kind that look nice on anyone aged 65+.

Then you have the more casual kind like I own, the casual brands that resemble beige coloured jeans.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Zakar »

You all realise Chinos come in colours other than Beige right?
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Ellafan »

jdogscoop wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:04 am Chinos vary in quality and design.

You have the loose, pleated kind that look nice on anyone aged 65+.

Then you have the more casual kind like I own, the casual brands that resemble beige coloured jeans.
Oh, I see now - you're all talking about slacks.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Sensible Stephen »

Zakar wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:12 am You all realise Chinos come in colours other than Beige right?
I'm a SABA or Marcs guy. Blue, black, grey, light blue, yellow. I rock them all. :smug:
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by kiap »

freddie111 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:16 am Wrt Amp it allows you to get the cached version super fast while Google
It also makes the gateway the destination. Gamekeeper turned poach.

And it's gotta be acknowledged Google is the first tier player in this game. Facebook is the ersatz version.
Last edited by kiap on Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Ellafan »

Sensible Stephen wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:20 am
Zakar wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:12 am You all realise Chinos come in colours other than Beige right?
I'm a SABA or Marcs guy. Blue, black, grey, light blue, yellow. I rock them all. :smug:
Only acceptable on a golf course, and even then only in an officially sanctioned competition.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Ellafan »

kiap wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:37 am
freddie111 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:16 am Wrt Amp it allows you to get the cached version super fast while Google
It also makes the gateway the destination. Gamekeeper turned poach.

And it's gotta be acknowledged Google is the first tier player in this game. Facebook is the ersatz version.
I was waiting for google111 to mention the cache, where google blatantly steals and mirrors other parties' IP - and sells the advertising space on their cache version.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by guy smiley »

kiap wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:37 am
freddie111 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:16 am Wrt Amp it allows you to get the cached version super fast while Google
It also makes the gateway the destination. Gamekeeper turned poach.

And it's gotta be acknowledged Google is the first tier player in this game. Facebook is the ersatz version.
If the case is to be made that there is a loss of advertising revenue for the client sites (debatable considering the nature of their business compared to the quantum advances in targeted advertising developed by the hosting sites themselves) then surely a better course of regulatory action would be to focus on that caching capacity and attempt to enforce direct linking, yeah? Or is it better to just try and force a bit of govt sanctioned extortion and beat the national chest?
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by freddie111 »

kiap wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:37 am
freddie111 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:16 am Wrt Amp it allows you to get the cached version super fast while Google
It also makes the gateway the destination. Gamekeeper turned poach.

And it's gotta be acknowledged Google is the first tier player in this game. Facebook is the ersatz version.
Sorry, what are you talking about? The ad is still the publisher's sale. Google doesn't get extra for hosting the cached version. Where is the poaching?
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by freddie111 »

guy smiley wrote:

If the case is to be made that there is a loss of advertising revenue for the client sites
What loss is there?

Edit: fix quote
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by guy smiley »

freddie111 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:37 am
guy smiley wrote:

If the case is to be made that there is a loss of advertising revenue for the client sites
What loss is there?

Edit: fix quote
I’m addressing the claim being made. Kiap and others continue to make that case. I’m waiting to be convinced of the merits of it, myself.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by MungoMan »

Zakar wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:12 am You all realise Chinos come in colours other than Beige right?
Like the navy ones I’m wearing?
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by jdogscoop »

Zakar wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:12 am You all realise Chinos come in colours other than Beige right?
Sure thing, just not as common.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Muttonbirds »

This is Australia you want to do business here you play by our rules.
:shock: Tough guy here.

Scumo sees only his domestic audience. All his petulant and bullying behaviour suggests he's genuinely incapable of standard negotiation, discussion, compromise, and diplomacy. This is why he ends up pissing so many people off. How did he get to be PM and then voted back in?

Emboldened by Australian voters he will only get worse. :?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/20 ... ttack.html
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Farva wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:48 am
Slim 293 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:00 am
Farva wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:40 am When I think of Chino's I always picture Ned Hanigan.
Lightweight material, soft, yet...durable?
Often picked because you look the part, not because you perform...
That's what they are the uniform of IT
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:20 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:10 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:51 pm
Ellafan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:47 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:33 pm

Its funny you should say that because I had to look them up, via Google of course. I mean, I have heard the word used before but I didn't really know what they were. Apparently they are men's pants made of course cotton, that can be worn to work on Casual Friday.
I had a linen suit I used to wear to the track. Is that the sort of thing you mean?
Not quite linen. I think cinos are similar, but more robust. Just check with Pat thoughm because he apparently wears them.
Fark me - you've never heard of Chinos?!

:lol:
I mean, I have heard the word used before but I didn't really know what they were.
:lol:
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Zakar »

Muttonbirds wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:17 am
This is Australia you want to do business here you play by our rules.
:shock: Tough guy here.

Scumo sees only his domestic audience. All his petulant and bullying behaviour suggests he's genuinely incapable of standard negotiation, discussion, compromise, and diplomacy. This is why he ends up pissing so many people off. How did he get to be PM and then voted back in?

Emboldened by Australian voters he will only get worse. :?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/20 ... ttack.html
Why would we care about diplomacy with you? You'll always be our supplicant.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Muttonbirds »

Zakar wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:47 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:17 am
This is Australia you want to do business here you play by our rules.
:shock: Tough guy here.

Scumo sees only his domestic audience. All his petulant and bullying behaviour suggests he's genuinely incapable of standard negotiation, discussion, compromise, and diplomacy. This is why he ends up pissing so many people off. How did he get to be PM and then voted back in?

Emboldened by Australian voters he will only get worse. :?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/20 ... ttack.html
Why would we care about diplomacy with you? You'll always be our supplicant.
Well you don't. You've abandoned all pretence of it recently. That is the problem. It's up to you lefties, as Thomas assures us you all are, to change it.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Zakar »

Muttonbirds wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:56 am
Zakar wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:47 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:17 am
This is Australia you want to do business here you play by our rules.
:shock: Tough guy here.

Scumo sees only his domestic audience. All his petulant and bullying behaviour suggests he's genuinely incapable of standard negotiation, discussion, compromise, and diplomacy. This is why he ends up pissing so many people off. How did he get to be PM and then voted back in?

Emboldened by Australian voters he will only get worse. :?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/20 ... ttack.html
Why would we care about diplomacy with you? You'll always be our supplicant.
Well you don't. You've abandoned all pretence of it recently. That is the problem. It's up to you lefties, as Thomas assures us you all are, to change it.
It's not a problem.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Ellafan wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:15 am
Oh, I see now - you're all talking about slacks.
Slacks are a cut of trousers
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Ellafan »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:05 am
Ellafan wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:15 am
Oh, I see now - you're all talking about slacks.
Slacks are a cut of trousers
I thought someone said chinos were trousers?
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Flyin Ryan »

MungoMan wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:18 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:15 pm
Sensible Stephen wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:04 am
Farva wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:43 am
Finally Facebook has very much pushed the culture war that our friends over in that thread love banging on about. They have filtered news sites so you only see opinions that agree with you, and news agencies have responded by going more extreme. Id love to see something come in that stops that.
Probably deserves a separate thread, but this is a huge problem. Youtube as well. Creates more and more divided, extreme camps of people.
I don't understand why Youtube allows comments. And it's been a cesspool since it started, it wasn't recent.
It's a public service. Pootube providing a public space - a virtual agora - where anyone with net access can demonstrate just what a disappointment to their parents they are.
But they can post anonymously, meaning they can just troll for the fun of it with no repercussions.
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Flyin Ryan »

freddie111 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:16 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:34 pm
Ellafan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:06 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:55 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:42 am Kiap,

You're harping on about 'stolen content' whilst refusing to acknowledge that these proposed laws go much, much further. They would require that Google and FB pay Aussie news companies money every time a consumer accesses their news site through Google or FB. The example I used yesterday was me searching the 'Cronulla riots'. Half way down the first search page on google was a link to the The Guardian, which directed me to The Guardian's website. Under the proposed law Google would have to pay The Guardian for the privilege of directing traffic to their website.

As far as I can tell the French deal relates only to reusing content, not linking consumers to news websites. So the laws are very different.
Can someone with more knowledge on this describe to me what's going on with this below that I'm starting to experience more.

I google search something and am directed to a news story link. When I click on the link to read it, the url is a google url usually with "amp" in it. For me to say copy the link to post the story on a forum if I don't want a gargantuan google link, I have to do a bit of work to get the url down to just the content provider's link. Is it a way for Google to shadow the page of the content provider without actually directing you there?
Flynn, youtube have 8,070,145 hits on joy divisions love will us apart.

I'm guessing the plum have never paid a cent of royalties for that.

Am I wrong?
I'm not sure. I imagine Joy Division and the song's owner have received a little money, however from listening to for example Nightcore which is a sped up feminized version of songs, that I doubt Joy Division and the song's owner receive any money from remixes of their songs.

Probably the closest parallel I can think of to Facebook/Google and news companies is the radio (or Alexa to modernize it) playing songs. "The radio is playing the music for free, they're doing a favor publicizing it." Eh, that's not really how it works.
If you click into the details of the Joy Division song you'll see that the license holder and all song writers are credited. Payment is relative to the advertising sold around the song.
If a song has no ads and is not part of a paid subscription then there is no payment but the songholder can claim the song which will put ads on it and let revenue happen.
This can apply to variations of the song as well i.e. a cover, sample etc, but that credit is just to the song writers vs the owners of the original recording.
Okay.

What about the other 19 people that have uploaded the same song, be it with the CD cover or one where they have playing in the background the lyrics, as well as the few dozen or so nightcore/techno/trance, etc. remixes of the Joy Division song? And from experience I can tell you those have ads.
Wrt radio: radio stations pay royalties for songs they play (whether that all gets to the artists is a whole other story!) Not sure where the idea that songs on the radio are free comes from (though YouTube and others were pretty cavalier in the early days)
It's an argument I'd expect to hear that sounds on par with Facebook/Google are providing this service for free of sending these companies these links.

I think it points more to a societal problem of everyone reads headlines, no one reads stories. So if you have a link to a story on Facebook, what percentage of people are actually going to go and read the story?
Wrt Amp it allows you to get the cached version super fast while Google checks if there is a newer version in the background, and uploads it into the cache if there is a newer version. It also restricts the amount of bloat that "web designers " put into the page reducing page load times and it also reduces the attack surface for malware and other exploits.
The "amp" version of the story stays up and stays in the url. It makes it appear to be a Google-owned article versus the content provider if you try and copy the link. I've never seen a story update while I go there.

"It also restricts the amount of bloat that web designers put into the page reducing page load times" - like ads for example? :lol:
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by freddie111 »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:54 pm
freddie111 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:16 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:34 pm
Ellafan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:06 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:55 pm

Can someone with more knowledge on this describe to me what's going on with this below that I'm starting to experience more.

I google search something and am directed to a news story link. When I click on the link to read it, the url is a google url usually with "amp" in it. For me to say copy the link to post the story on a forum if I don't want a gargantuan google link, I have to do a bit of work to get the url down to just the content provider's link. Is it a way for Google to shadow the page of the content provider without actually directing you there?
Flynn, youtube have 8,070,145 hits on joy divisions love will us apart.

I'm guessing the plum have never paid a cent of royalties for that.

Am I wrong?
I'm not sure. I imagine Joy Division and the song's owner have received a little money, however from listening to for example Nightcore which is a sped up feminized version of songs, that I doubt Joy Division and the song's owner receive any money from remixes of their songs.

Probably the closest parallel I can think of to Facebook/Google and news companies is the radio (or Alexa to modernize it) playing songs. "The radio is playing the music for free, they're doing a favor publicizing it." Eh, that's not really how it works.
If you click into the details of the Joy Division song you'll see that the license holder and all song writers are credited. Payment is relative to the advertising sold around the song.
If a song has no ads and is not part of a paid subscription then there is no payment but the songholder can claim the song which will put ads on it and let revenue happen.
This can apply to variations of the song as well i.e. a cover, sample etc, but that credit is just to the song writers vs the owners of the original recording.
Okay.

What about the other 19 people that have uploaded the same song, be it with the CD cover or one where they have playing in the background the lyrics, as well as the few dozen or so nightcore/techno/trance, etc. remixes of the Joy Division song? And from experience I can tell you those have ads.
For it to get ads it has to be claimed by the content owner. If you click into the details it will tell you who claimed it. It will also have a link for the add free YouTube Music subscription. That's also an indicator that YouTube is aware that this is a song with royalties and not some random video upload. Looking around at third party sites explaining to musicians how to ensure they get their royalties I've not seen any claims that this process doesn't work.
Artists do need to claim their own work but unless they claim it there are no ads and therefore no revenue for anyone.
Wrt radio: radio stations pay royalties for songs they play (whether that all gets to the artists is a whole other story!) Not sure where the idea that songs on the radio are free comes from (though YouTube and others were pretty cavalier in the early days)
It's an argument I'd expect to hear that sounds on par with Facebook/Google are providing this service for free of sending these companies these links.
Not sure I follow your answer. It's not an argument. It's a fact.

I think it points more to a societal problem of everyone reads headlines, no one reads stories. So if you have a link to a story on Facebook, what percentage of people are actually going to go and read the story?
I don’t think headlines are copyrightable. But on Google they are not monetized in search.

However, I think from reading that the recent deals are about paying for using content in Google News areas rather than for general search results.
Google has so much stuff mixed together now that its tricky to tell exactly what those deals are covering and I've not seen a good breakdown.

Wrt Amp it allows you to get the cached version super fast while Google checks if there is a newer version in the background, and uploads it into the cache if there is a newer version. It also restricts the amount of bloat that "web designers " put into the page reducing page load times and it also reduces the attack surface for malware and other exploits.
The "amp" version of the story stays up and stays in the url. It makes it appear to be a Google-owned article versus the content provider if you try and copy the link. I've never seen a story update while I go there.

"It also restricts the amount of bloat that web designers put into the page reducing page load times" - like ads for example? :lol:

You can switch to desktop mode to see the original most of the time and do a comparison and see how fresh it is. Not sure why there would be much delay though as it kind of defeats the purpose. Google wants people to click on the links and go to the ads. And fresher content has better clicks.

Is the domain being Google such a problem? If you look at the rest of the url you can see the original url. And as I said if you switch to desktop mode it will take you right there.
I guess one problem is that it makes people suspicious that something is being "filtered" by Google. But if you are using any search engine the results are already filtered since decades.

Yeah, ads can be bloated but are the current way the internet is kept from going only behind paywalls. But its worth comparing sites that use amp and those that don't and see how much quicker the site loads.
I've regularly seen blank boxes where ads would normally be with a notice like "this ad was removed because it was too slow for your device". I think that's due to Amp though might be Chrome.
Planet Rugby on mobile is a dog's dinner of ads and i think could be improved with amp (though the site owners ultimately decide).
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Ellafan
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by Ellafan »

I don’t think headlines are copyrightable
:roll:
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by MungoMan »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:47 pm
MungoMan wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:18 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:15 pm
Sensible Stephen wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:04 am
Farva wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:43 am
Finally Facebook has very much pushed the culture war that our friends over in that thread love banging on about. They have filtered news sites so you only see opinions that agree with you, and news agencies have responded by going more extreme. Id love to see something come in that stops that.
Probably deserves a separate thread, but this is a huge problem. Youtube as well. Creates more and more divided, extreme camps of people.
I don't understand why Youtube allows comments. And it's been a cesspool since it started, it wasn't recent.
It's a public service. Pootube providing a public space - a virtual agora - where anyone with net access can demonstrate just what a disappointment to their parents they are.
But they can post anonymously, meaning they can just troll for the fun of it with no repercussions.
Apologies, I could not locate the icon signifying I was being a smartarse
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koroke hangareka
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Re: Australian Posters, what is this Yahoo search bullshit? Have Google gone Nuclear?

Post by koroke hangareka »

The use of the word Pootube might have been a clue for anyone not terminally humourless.
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