India v England T/20 series

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ovalball
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:52 am England up to #1 ranked test team ahead of NZ.
No they aren't - even if they win 4 zip they won't overtake NZ. We could overtake them if we win in India and then beat them at home in the summer.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

jambanja wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:17 am
inactionman wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:11 am Only caught fits and starts of the Test (for obvious reasons) - saw Leach took four in second innings, bodes well after he got a little bit of the long handle at times in the first.

Verdicts on Bess and Leach? (Include Root if you really want to)

The few spells I saw on Bess looked very good in parts but he tended to drop in quite a few long hops or full tosses. Not sure if that's him trying too hard or just lacks a bit of control.
From the little I saw of Bess he was a bit loose, like you said, full tosses etc, he start a few of the overs with boundary balls, luckily Eng had plenty of runs
It still isn't quite coming out right for Bess - but he's still made valuable contributions with the ball (and the bat). Maybe his unpredictable bowling is what is getting him wickets - batsmen don't know what is coming next. He certainly has had some good luck with dismissals, as well as some deserved wickets.

Leach, despite getting lost of tap in the 1st innings, is finding a decent rhythm now - considering how little cricket he'd played - he's improving with every match.
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Re: India v England test series

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A5D5E5 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:33 am
ovalball wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:27 am
mabunch78 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:06 am Siddhartha Vaidyanathan on Tw@tter:
It remains a mystery how James Anderson got only 2 wickets in that over
:lol:
Not bad for a guy who is only any good bowling in England :shock:

What a bowler he is - still at the top of his game at the age of 38 - looks as fit as a fiddle. It'll be hard to rest him, for the 2nd test, after that performance - but they'll definitely want him for the 3rd test, with the pink ball.
I've said it before and I will probably keep saying it until I die, but I strongly believe that if Jimmy had reversed (pun intended) his career so the second half happened first, he would be rated (even more) highly. For the last 10 years (or so) he has been utterly devastating and his stats are comparable to some of the all time greats.

He’s also kept himself in amazing condition, I don’t think we can underestimate the effort that has taken for as long as it has.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by terryfinch »

ovalball wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:42 am
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:52 am England up to #1 ranked test team ahead of NZ.
No they aren't - even if they win 4 zip they won't overtake NZ. We could overtake them if we win in India and then beat them at home in the summer.
Times of India has us top. Must be various versions.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by not_english »

terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:48 am
obelixtim wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:04 pm England batted for far too long. Spent too long blocking and not scoring, and wasting overs. Should have smashed it and clocked up 430+ quickly and given themselves at least 30 overs at India then another 90 to bowl them out.

Too scared of losing means India can bat for a draw, or even a win if they score well and keep wickets.

This aged well.
I don't think there is much wrong with this comment. England did appear to be batting too long (and strangely slowly at the end). As it turned out they bowled India out quickly so time wasn't a factor, but it's not like that was a pre-ordained outcome.
Root is quite a conservative captain IMHO. I was suprised they batted into the third day in their first innings, you don't see that too often.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by A5D5E5 »

How often have England run out of overs with a realistic chance of forcing a win? I can't think of many occasions.

Yet we hear this "England are too conservative" type line from commentators (yes TMS, I'm looking at you) and (especially) on the BBC website commentary every single time they are setting a total. It is tedious. Especially from former captains who were just as conservative when their careers depended on it (Vaughan).
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terryfinch
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Re: India v England test series

Post by terryfinch »

not_english wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:50 pm
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:48 am
obelixtim wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:04 pm England batted for far too long. Spent too long blocking and not scoring, and wasting overs. Should have smashed it and clocked up 430+ quickly and given themselves at least 30 overs at India then another 90 to bowl them out.

Too scared of losing means India can bat for a draw, or even a win if they score well and keep wickets.

This aged well.
I don't think there is much wrong with this comment. England did appear to be batting too long (and strangely slowly at the end). As it turned out they bowled India out quickly so time wasn't a factor, but it's not like that was a pre-ordained outcome.
Root is quite a conservative captain IMHO. I was suprised they batted into the third day in their first innings, you don't see that too often.


His rationale, explained in interview, was as follows:

- Wanted to take any chance of an India victory out of the equation as felt this would help the bowlers and hurt the batsmen psychologically.
- Wanted to be able to bowl with pace and a hard ball both at end of day 4 and start of day 5. Therefore didn't want too many overs bowled on Day 4.
- Wanted the pitch to be as worn as possible before they started bowling.

Fair enough.
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terryfinch
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Re: India v England test series

Post by terryfinch »

terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:45 pm
ovalball wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:42 am
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:52 am England up to #1 ranked test team ahead of NZ.
No they aren't - even if they win 4 zip they won't overtake NZ. We could overtake them if we win in India and then beat them at home in the summer.
Times of India has us top. Must be various versions.

Here we go. It is the World Test Championship ranking where England now #1.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/world-test- ... /standings
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:37 pm
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:45 pm
ovalball wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:42 am
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:52 am England up to #1 ranked test team ahead of NZ.
No they aren't - even if they win 4 zip they won't overtake NZ. We could overtake them if we win in India and then beat them at home in the summer.
Times of India has us top. Must be various versions.

Here we go. It is the World Test Championship ranking where England now #1.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/world-test- ... /standings
Except that isn't the rankings - it's the test championship table.

Here's the rankings;

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/me ... kings/test

There's a predictor on there so you can see what will happen depending on the Indian and New Zealand series.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm
not_english wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:50 pm
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:48 am
obelixtim wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:04 pm England batted for far too long. Spent too long blocking and not scoring, and wasting overs. Should have smashed it and clocked up 430+ quickly and given themselves at least 30 overs at India then another 90 to bowl them out.

Too scared of losing means India can bat for a draw, or even a win if they score well and keep wickets.

This aged well.
I don't think there is much wrong with this comment. England did appear to be batting too long (and strangely slowly at the end). As it turned out they bowled India out quickly so time wasn't a factor, but it's not like that was a pre-ordained outcome.
Root is quite a conservative captain IMHO. I was suprised they batted into the third day in their first innings, you don't see that too often.


His rationale, explained in interview, was as follows:

- Wanted to take any chance of an India victory out of the equation as felt this would help the bowlers and hurt the batsmen psychologically.
- Wanted to be able to bowl with pace and a hard ball both at end of day 4 and start of day 5. Therefore didn't want too many overs bowled on Day 4.
- Wanted the pitch to be as worn as possible before they started bowling.

Fair enough.
As I said previously - they are on the ground, playing on that pitch and will know best what the conditions are and how best to exploit them. Root (and his senior players/coach) has proven that he assesses such things very well - you only have to look at his record to see how often he has proven all the armchair critics wrong - as he'd done here.
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Re: India v England test series

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ovalball wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:50 am
jambanja wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:17 am
inactionman wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:11 am Only caught fits and starts of the Test (for obvious reasons) - saw Leach took four in second innings, bodes well after he got a little bit of the long handle at times in the first.

Verdicts on Bess and Leach? (Include Root if you really want to)

The few spells I saw on Bess looked very good in parts but he tended to drop in quite a few long hops or full tosses. Not sure if that's him trying too hard or just lacks a bit of control.
From the little I saw of Bess he was a bit loose, like you said, full tosses etc, he start a few of the overs with boundary balls, luckily Eng had plenty of runs
It still isn't quite coming out right for Bess - but he's still made valuable contributions with the ball (and the bat). Maybe his unpredictable bowling is what is getting him wickets - batsmen don't know what is coming next. He certainly has had some good luck with dismissals, as well as some deserved wickets.

Leach, despite getting lost of tap in the 1st innings, is finding a decent rhythm now - considering how little cricket he'd played - he's improving with every match.
Perhaps a silly point, but interested to compare Bess with Rashid.

I know Rashid has opted for white-ball cricket from a contract perspective, so he's out of running anyway, but seems odd to go for a young finger-spinner who lacks control when we've got a real wicket-taking leg-spinner who lacks (or is perceived to lack) control.

Not to belittle Bess - he's an ex-Somerset lad so he'll always get benefit of my doubt, ignoring his banishment to Yorkshire - but it just feels like a bit of an inconsistent position.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by not_english »

ovalball wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:57 pm
As I said previously - they are on the ground, playing on that pitch and will know best what the conditions are and how best to exploit them. Root (and his senior players/coach) has proven that he assesses such things very well - you only have to look at his record to see how often he has proven all the armchair critics wrong - as he'd done here.
Well, it is a talking point. Mind you the bolded bit would still be true even if he made the wrong decision. India were always likely to lose after they were dismissed so far behind in the first innings, regardless of any particular captaincy decisions, which is probably the case in most games.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by terryfinch »

Changes for next test I reckon:

Foakes for Buttler
Ali for Bess
Broad for Anderson
??? for Lawrence
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Re: India v England test series

Post by inactionman »

terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:32 pm Changes for next test I reckon:

Foakes for Buttler
Ali for Bess
Broad for Anderson
??? for Lawrence
Is there reason for swapping Foakes and Buttler? Wasn't aware of Buttler missing any chances which has maybe been an issue in Tests past (and noting Foakes is an excellent keeper) and he got a few runs in both innings. Is it resting /rotating?

Assume Crawley still crocked - from memory he was expected to miss two Tests.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by Rowdy »

I wouldn't drop Lawrence, he deserves chances. And I think Mo might be a busted flush.
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Re: India v England test series

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inactionman wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:51 pm
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:32 pm Changes for next test I reckon:

Foakes for Buttler
Ali for Bess
Broad for Anderson
??? for Lawrence
Is there reason for swapping Foakes and Buttler? Wasn't aware of Buttler missing any chances which has maybe been an issue in Tests past (and noting Foakes is an excellent keeper) and he got a few runs in both innings. Is it resting /rotating?

Assume Crawley still crocked - from memory he was expected to miss two Tests.
Rotating. They said Buttler was being swapped for Foakes before the tour even started
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

inactionman wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:17 pm
ovalball wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:50 am
jambanja wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:17 am
inactionman wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:11 am Only caught fits and starts of the Test (for obvious reasons) - saw Leach took four in second innings, bodes well after he got a little bit of the long handle at times in the first.

Verdicts on Bess and Leach? (Include Root if you really want to)

The few spells I saw on Bess looked very good in parts but he tended to drop in quite a few long hops or full tosses. Not sure if that's him trying too hard or just lacks a bit of control.
From the little I saw of Bess he was a bit loose, like you said, full tosses etc, he start a few of the overs with boundary balls, luckily Eng had plenty of runs
It still isn't quite coming out right for Bess - but he's still made valuable contributions with the ball (and the bat). Maybe his unpredictable bowling is what is getting him wickets - batsmen don't know what is coming next. He certainly has had some good luck with dismissals, as well as some deserved wickets.

Leach, despite getting lost of tap in the 1st innings, is finding a decent rhythm now - considering how little cricket he'd played - he's improving with every match.
Perhaps a silly point, but interested to compare Bess with Rashid.

I know Rashid has opted for white-ball cricket from a contract perspective, so he's out of running anyway, but seems odd to go for a young finger-spinner who lacks control when we've got a real wicket-taking leg-spinner who lacks (or is perceived to lack) control.

Not to belittle Bess - he's an ex-Somerset lad so he'll always get benefit of my doubt, ignoring his banishment to Yorkshire - but it just feels like a bit of an inconsistent position.
It's not inconsistent at all. Rashid is not playing red ball cricket and his shoulder is not up the demands of anythig more than a ODI. They would have liked to take him but he needed to show he could manage anything more than a Limited Overs game, he wasn't able to do so.

Bess, normally, has better control than he's shown this winter. It's not like we're blessed with options. Ali has barely played over the last year and was badly out of form, Virdi is a novice and very poor batsman - Parkinson and Crane aren't ready for this level. Bess is, at least, taking wickets and providing some useful runs at 8.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by mabunch78 »

terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:32 pm Changes for next test I reckon:

Foakes for Buttler
Ali for Bess
Broad for Anderson
??? for Lawrence
Was it Gareth Batty on Talk Sport who suggested Ali in for Lawrence? Intriguing idea. His theory is the next game it will spin more so he wants all the front-line spinners in. And Ali's been tried at 3-4 in the past (though not successfully, esp. against spin...)
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

mabunch78 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:53 pm
terryfinch wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:32 pm Changes for next test I reckon:

Foakes for Buttler
Ali for Bess
Broad for Anderson
??? for Lawrence
Was it Gareth Batty on Talk Sport who suggested Ali in for Lawrence? Intriguing idea. His theory is the next game it will spin more so he wants all the front-line spinners in. And Ali's been tried at 3-4 in the past (though not successfully, esp. against spin...)
I'd rather stick with Lawrence - if they are confident that Ali's bowling is more reliable than Bess's, they should pick him in his place. Bess would probably score more runs though :shock:

I've always liked Ali's bowling, so I wouldn't be against him coming in for Bess, if he's netting well. Both of them are a risk but Bess has been taking wickets, albeit a bit fortuitously.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

Root back up to 3rd in the test rankings (only just behind Smith now), Kohli slips to 5th. Stokes up one place to 9th as Rahane drops out of the top ten.

Jimmy jumps back up to 3rd in the bowling, just behind Broad in 2nd place.

Doesn't really mean much, of course.
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Re: India v England test series

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Does anyone remember the early days of Anderson's career where he was widely considered (on Planet Rugby) to be useless, and DCM was the only poster that rated him? He's come a long way since then.
Kind of reminds me of Richard Hadlee late in his career.
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Re: India v England test series

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not_english wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:52 pm Does anyone remember the early days of Anderson's career where he was widely considered (on Planet Rugby) to be useless, and DCM was the only poster that rated him? He's come a long way since then.
Kind of reminds me of Richard Hadlee late in his career.
He started excellently - then they farted about with his action and he went downhill rapidly. To make matters worse, they then kept picking him as 12th man so that he rarely played 1st class cricket to develop his game. At that point he should not have been in the England squad - but most people still recognised his potential, despite the woeful handling of him by the England management.

DCM was in love with him and wanted him picked regardless of how he bowled.

I don't think any of us could have predicted he'd be be one of the best in the world some 15 years later.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by A5D5E5 »

ovalball wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:06 pm
not_english wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:52 pm Does anyone remember the early days of Anderson's career where he was widely considered (on Planet Rugby) to be useless, and DCM was the only poster that rated him? He's come a long way since then.
Kind of reminds me of Richard Hadlee late in his career.
He started excellently - then they farted about with his action and he went downhill rapidly. To make matters worse, they then kept picking him as 12th man so that he rarely played 1st class cricket to develop his game. At that point he should not have been in the England squad - but most people still recognised his potential, despite the woeful handling of him by the England management.

DCM was in love with him and wanted him picked regardless of how he bowled.

I don't think any of us could have predicted he'd be be one of the best in the world some 15 years later.
Yep - they had a thing about "fixing" his action (as he wasn't looking at the batsman when he delivered the ball) which screwed him up for years. I saw him talk about it a few years ago in an interview. They messed him up so much he came very close to quitting the game entirely.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

A5D5E5 wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:15 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:06 pm
not_english wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:52 pm Does anyone remember the early days of Anderson's career where he was widely considered (on Planet Rugby) to be useless, and DCM was the only poster that rated him? He's come a long way since then.
Kind of reminds me of Richard Hadlee late in his career.
He started excellently - then they farted about with his action and he went downhill rapidly. To make matters worse, they then kept picking him as 12th man so that he rarely played 1st class cricket to develop his game. At that point he should not have been in the England squad - but most people still recognised his potential, despite the woeful handling of him by the England management.

DCM was in love with him and wanted him picked regardless of how he bowled.

I don't think any of us could have predicted he'd be be one of the best in the world some 15 years later.
Yep - they had a thing about "fixing" his action (as he wasn't looking at the batsman when he delivered the ball) which screwed him up for years. I saw him talk about it a few years ago in an interview. They messed him up so much he came very close to quitting the game entirely.
And, because they kept him in camp for so long, he barely played any cricket and couldn't get away from the people that were destroying his action. If he'd been released back to his county, for a couple of full seasons, he'd have worked it out, for himself, far quicker. Might have taken 800 test wickets ny now !!
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Re: India v England test series

Post by Rowdy »

Imagine if Warne had been English - he'd have been dropped after his first test and ended up as fat forty-year-old County twirler.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ovalball »

Rowdy wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:26 pm Imagine if Warne had been English - he'd have been dropped after his first test and ended up as fat forty-year-old County twirler.
That would be an interesting point, were it not for the fact that Australia did actually drop him.
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Re: India v England test series

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India 85 for 2

India won the toss and are odds on favs to win the match
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Re: India v England test series

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106 for 3
Moeen bowls Kohli for 0
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Re: India v England test series

Post by not_english »

India well on top now. I find England's rotation policies a bit puzzling, why not just pick your best team?
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Re: India v England test series

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not_english wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:44 am India well on top now. I find England's rotation policies a bit puzzling, why not just pick your best team?
playing a lot of cricket this year and plenty of it living in a bubble. Got to take care of mental health.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by Geek »

Yep, it's not ideal for the England cricket team but the players lives (and their families') are far more important than that.

Anyway, this is some knock by Sharma. Having said that (and as a stoggy old opener type back in my school days) I still can't get my head around an opener hitting a brace of sixes in test cricket. Ain't natural, I tells ya!
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Re: India v England test series

Post by not_english »

I reckon that was out, but not clear enough on the replay
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Re: India v England test series

Post by Fruit and Nutt »

not_english wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:20 am I reckon that was out, but not clear enough on the replay
Does the bit touching the floor have to be behind the white line?
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Re: India v England test series

Post by C69 »

Bloody Hell I think India batting first will win them the test.
This pitch is going to be unplayable in a few days.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by JamesJames »

Loving test cricket right now. India, England and NZ pretty equal I'd say. Then comes Australia followed by Pakistan and South Africa and the minnows.
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Re: India v England test series

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C69 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:24 am Bloody Hell I think India batting first will win them the test.
This pitch is going to be unplayable in a few days.
England may still get them out for under 400. There is hope
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Re: India v England test series

Post by not_english »

Fruit and Nutt wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:23 am
not_english wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:20 am I reckon that was out, but not clear enough on the replay
Does the bit touching the floor have to be behind the white line?
Yep
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Re: India v England test series

Post by not_english »

Looks a minefield now
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Re: India v England test series

Post by ScarfaceClaw »

not_english wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:32 am
Fruit and Nutt wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:23 am
not_english wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:20 am I reckon that was out, but not clear enough on the replay
Does the bit touching the floor have to be behind the white line?
Yep
There was nothing behind the line there. And now you have a review for a close in catch and the third umpire didn’t even check for contact with the glove. That was properly dodgy.
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Re: India v England test series

Post by Geek »

Ali saves the third umpire's blushes.
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