The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

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MrDominator
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by MrDominator »

message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:05 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:03 am
DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:59 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:52 am Why is the head sacrosanct and the cruciate ligament isn't?

Was Fagerson's clearout worse than what Negri did in terms of causing severe injury to the opponent? Clearly, absolutely not.

This fixation with the head is a complete nonsense.

Not least because heads are much more flexible and moveable than knees, ankles or shoulders.
Many people suffer from premature dementia due to a torn MCL?
What are you talking about?

Most concussions happen in the tackle.
Most concussions happen when you get hit in the head
In the tackle.

They very rarely happen at the ruck.

Sending guys off for pretty standard clearouts at the ruck is clearly an absolute nonsense.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by message #2527204 »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:05 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:03 am
DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:59 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:52 am Why is the head sacrosanct and the cruciate ligament isn't?

Was Fagerson's clearout worse than what Negri did in terms of causing severe injury to the opponent? Clearly, absolutely not.

This fixation with the head is a complete nonsense.

Not least because heads are much more flexible and moveable than knees, ankles or shoulders.
Many people suffer from premature dementia due to a torn MCL?
What are you talking about?

Most concussions happen in the tackle.
Most concussions happen when you get hit in the head
In the tackle.

They very rarely happen at the ruck.

Sending guys off for pretty standard clearouts at the ruck is clearly an absolute nonsense.
You have to legislate to change behaviour. You have never been allowed to join a ruck shoulder first, whether it's has become 'pretty standard' or not. You lose the ball rather than commit the foul.
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MrDominator
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by MrDominator »

message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:11 am You have to legislate to change behaviour. You have never been allowed to join a ruck shoulder first, whether it's has become 'pretty standard' or not. You lose the ball rather than commit the foul.
That's clearly nonsense.

In effect, you would making jackalling virtually impossible to stop - which would entirely ruin the game as a spectacle.

Head contact at the ruck is just not a big deal. The head gets naturally pushed backwards because it's not moving towards the attacker - quite different from a tackle collision.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by DOB »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:05 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:03 am
DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:59 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:52 am Why is the head sacrosanct and the cruciate ligament isn't?

Was Fagerson's clearout worse than what Negri did in terms of causing severe injury to the opponent? Clearly, absolutely not.

This fixation with the head is a complete nonsense.

Not least because heads are much more flexible and moveable than knees, ankles or shoulders.
Many people suffer from premature dementia due to a torn MCL?
What are you talking about?

Most concussions happen in the tackle.
Most concussions happen when you get hit in the head
In the tackle.

They very rarely happen at the ruck.

Sending guys off for pretty standard clearouts at the ruck is clearly an absolute nonsense.
I got one of my 2 concussions in a ruck. Saying they have been rare in the past doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to allow behavior that may increase their occurrence in the future.

These clear outs weren’t standard. They were with force, with no wrap, and made contact with the head. They are the sort of thing that will lead to concussions if left to carry on.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by MrDominator »

DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:18 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:05 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:03 am
DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:59 am

Many people suffer from premature dementia due to a torn MCL?
What are you talking about?

Most concussions happen in the tackle.
Most concussions happen when you get hit in the head
In the tackle.

They very rarely happen at the ruck.

Sending guys off for pretty standard clearouts at the ruck is clearly an absolute nonsense.
I got one of my 2 concussions in a ruck. Saying they have been rare in the past doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to allow behavior that may increase their occurrence in the future.

These clear outs weren’t standard. They were with force, with no wrap, and made contact with the head. They are the sort of thing that will lead to concussions if left to carry on.
Not being funny, chum, but I don't think World Rugby should make law decisions based on the personal experiences of a forum dude.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by franch fan »

DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:38 am
fonzeee wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:58 pm
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm considering the inherent nature of this game,
Well, I think you'll find there are many that don't want to do that.

There's no reason for teams to be forced to play a man down, but this is what happens when the sport is ran by people from soccer-land.

Hopefully we'll at least get widespread implementation of the 20 min replacement rule.
Soccerland? Sending players off for foul play has been around as long as the game of rugby.

But sure, let’s imitate American sports who have 1/3 the number of players on the playing area. The NFL sure are a model for protecting player welfare.
But again, you just can't compare the impact of being one player less in football with the impact it has in rugby, just for the reasons I've already mentioned in another post of this thread
Last edited by franch fan on Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by message #2527204 »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:16 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:11 am You have to legislate to change behaviour. You have never been allowed to join a ruck shoulder first, whether it's has become 'pretty standard' or not. You lose the ball rather than commit the foul.
That's clearly nonsense.

In effect, you would making jackalling virtually impossible to stop - which would entirely ruin the game as a spectacle.

Head contact at the ruck is just not a big deal. The head gets naturally pushed backwards because it's not moving towards the attacker - quite different from a tackle collision.
Jackalling isn't usually stopped by a shoulder charge to the head.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by wamberal »

I am no medico, but my understanding is that concussion etc can be caused in many different ways, not just by a blow of one kind or another to the head. There are many legal body collisions in our game, and no doubt some damage can be done within the laws.

Nobody would espouse doing away with the red card sanction, but as a spectator I am just not interested in watching a game where one side has a numerical advantage for more than a limited period of time. Let offending players pay swingeing penalties in dollars, and time off the field.

The main thing is to protect the health of every player: surely there are ways to monitor the brain health of every player on a regular (weekly?) basis and to build adequate rest periods in accordingly.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by franch fan »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:16 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:11 am You have to legislate to change behaviour. You have never been allowed to join a ruck shoulder first, whether it's has become 'pretty standard' or not. You lose the ball rather than commit the foul.
That's clearly nonsense.

In effect, you would making jackalling virtually impossible to stop - which would entirely ruin the game as a spectacle.

Head contact at the ruck is just not a big deal. The head gets naturally pushed backwards because it's not moving towards the attacker - quite different from a tackle collision.
+1
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by MrDominator »

franch fan wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:25 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:16 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:11 am You have to legislate to change behaviour. You have never been allowed to join a ruck shoulder first, whether it's has become 'pretty standard' or not. You lose the ball rather than commit the foul.
That's clearly nonsense.

In effect, you would making jackalling virtually impossible to stop - which would entirely ruin the game as a spectacle.

Head contact at the ruck is just not a big deal. The head gets naturally pushed backwards because it's not moving towards the attacker - quite different from a tackle collision.
+1
I knew a Frenchie would agree with me.

Proper rugger sorts who understand the physical nature of the game :thumbup:
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by franch fan »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:28 am
franch fan wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:25 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:16 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:11 am You have to legislate to change behaviour. You have never been allowed to join a ruck shoulder first, whether it's has become 'pretty standard' or not. You lose the ball rather than commit the foul.
That's clearly nonsense.

In effect, you would making jackalling virtually impossible to stop - which would entirely ruin the game as a spectacle.

Head contact at the ruck is just not a big deal. The head gets naturally pushed backwards because it's not moving towards the attacker - quite different from a tackle collision.
+1
I knew a Frenchie would agree with me.

Proper rugger sorts who understand the physical nature of the game :thumbup:
Actually, I think everyone in this thread agree that those sort of plays in rucks should be sanctioned and firstly toward the guilty player himself (not only by exclude him totally from the game but also by suspend him for other games relatively to the gravity of his gesture)
BUT to sanction each time the whole team for the whole f**king game, sorry but I find it too much, especially for something that you KNOW can/will happen at least once in almost every professional game at this level of speed AS LONG AS THE BREAKDOWN RULES WILL BE AS THEY ARE NOW.

And I think that giving a few games suspension to the guilty player + all the time (15/20 min) his teammates had to be in numerical inferiority in that game will already be more than enough for him to understand that what he did was not good.
Last edited by franch fan on Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm I know it's for the players long term health but considering the inherent nature of this game, I think the new rules about not tackling the head especially when clearing the rucks are killing rugby games.

I propose this: instead of excluding a player who does that and leaving his team at 14 for the rest of the game, why not definitely excluding the guy leaving his team at 14 for 15 min and then replace him by someone else?
It's still worse for his team than a simple yellow but at least it doesn't completely kill the game and doesn't overly penalize his teammates whose all the work they've done don't deserve to get destroyed just because of the stupidity/clumsiness of one of their teammates.

Anyway, I think i'm not the only one who finds the consequences of those plays far too extreme for the teams just because of one individual stupid if not sometimes accidental play
Isn't this exactly what I was saying during the week?
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by message #2527204 »

wamberal wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:25 am I am no medico, but my understanding is that concussion etc can be caused in many different ways, not just by a blow of one kind or another to the head. There are many legal body collisions in our game, and no doubt some damage can be done within the laws.

Nobody would espouse doing away with the red card sanction, but as a spectator I am just not interested in watching a game where one side has a numerical advantage for more than a limited period of time. Let offending players pay swingeing penalties in dollars, and time off the field.

The main thing is to protect the health of every player: surely there are ways to monitor the brain health of every player on a regular (weekly?) basis and to build adequate rest periods in accordingly.
Saw this last year

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 20fashion.

The worry being that we might run out of players after a couple of games if they're all tested accurately.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by franch fan »

jdogscoop wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:37 am
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm I know it's for the players long term health but considering the inherent nature of this game, I think the new rules about not tackling the head especially when clearing the rucks are killing rugby games.

I propose this: instead of excluding a player who does that and leaving his team at 14 for the rest of the game, why not definitely excluding the guy leaving his team at 14 for 15 min and then replace him by someone else?
It's still worse for his team than a simple yellow but at least it doesn't completely kill the game and doesn't overly penalize his teammates whose all the work they've done don't deserve to get destroyed just because of the stupidity/clumsiness of one of their teammates.

Anyway, I think i'm not the only one who finds the consequences of those plays far too extreme for the teams just because of one individual stupid if not sometimes accidental play
Isn't this exactly what I was saying during the week?
Sorry I didn't see the thread or your posts
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

Salient wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:20 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm
blindcider wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:26 pm Players should stop flying into rucks recklessly, then they wont get sent off for it.

Refs should also be more strict on enforcing the existing laws around rucks as well.
This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Problem being they are red carding players who had no intent to go for the head but the tackle slipped up or the tackled player ducked into it. The game is going to continue to face viewer erosion with some of the insane rules being enforced.
Exactly. The "keep carding em til they learn" crowd are overlooking the huge number of occasions when the contact is accidental.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by fonzeee »

DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:38 am
fonzeee wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:58 pm
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm considering the inherent nature of this game,
Well, I think you'll find there are many that don't want to do that.

There's no reason for teams to be forced to play a man down, but this is what happens when the sport is ran by people from soccer-land.

Hopefully we'll at least get widespread implementation of the 20 min replacement rule.
Soccerland? Sending players off for foul play has been around as long as the game of rugby.

But sure, let’s imitate American sports who have 1/3 the number of players on the playing area. The NFL sure are a model for protecting player welfare.
Yes, and where do you think they got that idea from? It's no coincidence the pushback is coming from countries where soccer is not omnipresent. It may have been on the books forever (as if that somehow invalidates my point), but it has only become an issue recently as the sport has embarked upon a delusional campaign to convince people that it's actually "safe" when thirty seconds of watching it makes clear that isn't the case.

Seriously, if it's all about player welfare, why even have this sport? How can you justify scrums, rucks, or even tackling? I can guarantee there'd be a few more people walking around without scrums at least. So clearly at some point we all recognize there's a game to be played, and we'd rather it be played.

So, harsh but ultimately arbitrarily determined send-offs based on whatever WR have decided is going to be an "area of focus" for that month isn't really something I'm terribly enamored with.

Aussie rules doesn't send people off either by the way.

Edit: by sending off I'm referring to the team being shorthanded the rest of the game; players can be ejected in American sports obviously, but they're replaced
Last edited by fonzeee on Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

Fat Old Git wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:06 pm How many additional red cards have there been since the change in interpretation, and have the changes actually reduced the number of head injuries?

I think the ruck clear out is an area where it should be relatively easy to change technique to reduce the risk of contact with the head. But the tackle, and perhaps the initial formation of the ruck are another matter. There is so much happening in a short space of time and very minor errors in timing and positioning, or a sudden unexpected change such as a slip, or contact with a third player, can turn an attempt at a safe play into a red card before anyone realistically has tome to react.
Another good post.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by message #2527204 »

jdogscoop wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 am
Salient wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:20 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm
blindcider wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:26 pm Players should stop flying into rucks recklessly, then they wont get sent off for it.

Refs should also be more strict on enforcing the existing laws around rucks as well.
This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Problem being they are red carding players who had no intent to go for the head but the tackle slipped up or the tackled player ducked into it. The game is going to continue to face viewer erosion with some of the insane rules being enforced.
Exactly. The "keep carding em til they learn" crowd are overlooking the huge number of occasions when the contact is accidental.
There are mitigating factors that lower the sanction.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by terangi48 »

The cynic in me reckons that if the replacement option is undertaken, that opposition players of influence can be a target of foul play by a mad bomber roaring into rucks, head high decapitators, tip tacklers, et al.....all for playing with 14 players for 20 minutes.....and then reaping the reward of having an influential opposition injured........and missing from the game.

Nah.....the current law is a good one. If you do the dumb act.......you and your team pay for it.....suck it up cupcake!
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:05 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:03 am
DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:59 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:52 am Why is the head sacrosanct and the cruciate ligament isn't?

Was Fagerson's clearout worse than what Negri did in terms of causing severe injury to the opponent? Clearly, absolutely not.

This fixation with the head is a complete nonsense.

Not least because heads are much more flexible and moveable than knees, ankles or shoulders.
Many people suffer from premature dementia due to a torn MCL?
What are you talking about?

Most concussions happen in the tackle.
Most concussions happen when you get hit in the head
In the tackle.

They very rarely happen at the ruck.

Sending guys off for pretty standard clearouts at the ruck is clearly an absolute nonsense.
Some of your best work, MD. I totally agree.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by Tehui »

fonzeee wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:58 pm
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm considering the inherent nature of this game,
Well, I think you'll find there are many that don't want to do that.

There's no reason for teams to be forced to play a man down, but this is what happens when the sport is ran by people from soccer-land.

Hopefully we'll at least get widespread implementation of the 20 min replacement rule.
Music to my ears bro.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by franch fan »

terangi48 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:58 am The cynic in me reckons that if the replacement option is undertaken, that opposition players of influence can be a target of foul play by a mad bomber roaring into rucks, head high decapitators, tip tacklers, et al.....all for playing with 14 players for 20 minutes.....and then reaping the reward of having an influential opposition injured........and missing from the game.

Nah.....the current law is a good one. If you do the dumb act.......you and your team pay for it.....suck it up cupcake!
And you think that playing 20 min shorthanded in a game like rugby (where it's far easier to score points than let's say goals in football) wouldnt already be enough of a sanction for a team?

It seems like the cardinal mistake you and other people in this thread are making is that you think being one man shorthanded has the same impact whatever the sport when it's quite clearly not the case, not the least if you compare rugby and football.
And anyway, if there are very very few collective sports where you can get shorthanded for a whole game (apart football and rugby, I don't even know another one actually), it might be for a reason.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

fonzeee wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:46 am
DOB wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:38 am
fonzeee wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:58 pm
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm considering the inherent nature of this game,
Well, I think you'll find there are many that don't want to do that.

There's no reason for teams to be forced to play a man down, but this is what happens when the sport is ran by people from soccer-land.

Hopefully we'll at least get widespread implementation of the 20 min replacement rule.
Soccerland? Sending players off for foul play has been around as long as the game of rugby.

But sure, let’s imitate American sports who have 1/3 the number of players on the playing area. The NFL sure are a model for protecting player welfare.
Yes, and where do you think they got that idea from? It's no coincidence the pushback is coming from countries where soccer is not omnipresent. It may have been on the books forever (as if that somehow invalidates my point), but it has only become an issue recently as the sport has embarked upon a delusional campaign to convince people that it's actually "safe" when thirty seconds of watching it makes clear that isn't the case.

Seriously, if it's all about player welfare, why even have this sport? How can you justify scrums, rucks, or even tackling? I can guarantee there'd be a few more people walking around without scrums at least. So clearly at some point we all recognize there's a game to be played, and we'd rather it be played.

So, harsh but ultimately arbitrarily determined send-offs based on whatever WR have decided is going to be an "area of focus" for that month isn't really something I'm terribly enamored with.

Aussie rules doesn't send people off either by the way.

Edit: by sending off I'm referring to the team being shorthanded the rest of the game; players can be ejected in American sports obviously, but they're replaced
Post of the year. Kudos to you, my man.

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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by message #2527204 »

franch fan wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:06 am
terangi48 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:58 am The cynic in me reckons that if the replacement option is undertaken, that opposition players of influence can be a target of foul play by a mad bomber roaring into rucks, head high decapitators, tip tacklers, et al.....all for playing with 14 players for 20 minutes.....and then reaping the reward of having an influential opposition injured........and missing from the game.

Nah.....the current law is a good one. If you do the dumb act.......you and your team pay for it.....suck it up cupcake!
And you think that playing 20 min shorthanded in a game like rugby (where it's far easier to score points than let's say goals in football) wouldnt already be enough of a sanction for a team?

It seems like the cardinal mistake you and other people in this thread are making is that you think being one man shorthanded has the same impact whatever the sport when it's quite clearly not the case, not the least if you compare rugby and football.
And anyway, if there are very very few collective sports where you can get shorthanded for a whole game (apart football and rugby, I don't even know another one actually), it might be for a reason.
Then don't run out of control into a ruck with your chicken wing in someone's head and you won't get sent off. It's not difficult. Slow down if you can't manage it ( though most manage it). The idea that it happens at every ruck is a nonsense, that's because players don't do it.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by vh5150 »

The game is an absolute lottery now and has been since 2016 when the rules started to soften up. Many tests and series marred by red cards of which a very small percentage could be deemed “intentional”. Rugby is not the game it once was and its frankly now a shit show.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

vh5150 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:14 am The game is an absolute lottery now and has been since 2016 when the rules started to soften up. Many tests and series marred by red cards of which a very small percentage could be deemed “intentional”. Rugby is not the game it once was and its frankly now a shit show.
I've just seen footage of the "incident" now and it was laughable.

I can't believe people are actually defending the decision.

The game is broken.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by Enzedder »

franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:27 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm
blindcider wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:26 pm Players should stop flying into rucks recklessly, then they wont get sent off for it.

Refs should also be more strict on enforcing the existing laws around rucks as well.
This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Ok but why penalizing the rest of the team for the rest of the game?
Wouldn't 15min of numerical inferiority + definite exclusion of the player from the game be already enough?
Because they picked a fuckwit.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by franch fan »

Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:43 am
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:27 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm
blindcider wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:26 pm Players should stop flying into rucks recklessly, then they wont get sent off for it.

Refs should also be more strict on enforcing the existing laws around rucks as well.
This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Ok but why penalizing the rest of the team for the rest of the game?
Wouldn't 15min of numerical inferiority + definite exclusion of the player from the game be already enough?
Because they picked a fuckwit.
And so his teammates should pay the price for their coach's "stupidity"?
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:43 am
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:27 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm
blindcider wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:26 pm Players should stop flying into rucks recklessly, then they wont get sent off for it.

Refs should also be more strict on enforcing the existing laws around rucks as well.
This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Ok but why penalizing the rest of the team for the rest of the game?
Wouldn't 15min of numerical inferiority + definite exclusion of the player from the game be already enough?
Because they picked a fuckwit.
Have you seen the footage, Enz? There must be a lot of fuckwits around. That would happen in every game of club rugby played in New Zealand. And it wouldn't even draw a penalty.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by message #2527204 »

franch fan wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:54 am
Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:43 am
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:27 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm

This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Ok but why penalizing the rest of the team for the rest of the game?
Wouldn't 15min of numerical inferiority + definite exclusion of the player from the game be already enough?
Because they picked a fuckwit.
And so his teammates should pay the price for their coach's "stupidity"?
Yes.
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terangi48
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by terangi48 »

Agree that team mates pay as well.......yes!

The whole game is a game of decisions......staying within the rules is a pretty good decision especially when there printed guidelines (ie laws of the game) for the fcukwits who play the game to follow.......get some discipline.......and stay within the laws of the game.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by Enzedder »

jdogscoop wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:13 am
Have you seen the footage, Enz? There must be a lot of fuckwits around. That would happen in every game of club rugby played in New Zealand. And it wouldn't even draw a penalty.
Yes, I picked a red card as soon as they replayed it. If he had remained on his feet he would have seen out the game.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by jdogscoop »

Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:17 am
jdogscoop wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:13 am
Have you seen the footage, Enz? There must be a lot of fuckwits around. That would happen in every game of club rugby played in New Zealand. And it wouldn't even draw a penalty.
Yes, I picked a red card as soon as they replayed it. If he had remained on his feet he would have seen out the game.

I submit that would happen in every second game of Waikato club rugby and wouldn't even be penalised.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by Enzedder »

I would doubt it. 5 years ago, maybe even three years ago, yes you would be right.

Admittedly, club rugby doesn't have TMOs so they may slip thru the cracks.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by earl the beaver »

fonzeee wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:58 pm
franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm considering the inherent nature of this game,
Well, I think you'll find there are many that don't want to do that.

There's no reason for teams to be forced to play a man down, but this is what happens when the sport is ran by people from soccer-land.

Hopefully we'll at least get widespread implementation of the 20 min replacement rule.
Hopefully not you mean
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by earl the beaver »

franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:05 pm In American sports like basketball, hockey or football, you never see a team being reduced indefinitely to less men than another team but only temporary numerical superiorities in hockey or definite exclusion for a player (basketball ans hockey).
Not for the first time, I think US have the best model when it comes to sports
You mean only play sports no other country in the world takes seriously?
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by earl the beaver »

franch fan wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:27 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm
blindcider wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:26 pm Players should stop flying into rucks recklessly, then they wont get sent off for it.

Refs should also be more strict on enforcing the existing laws around rucks as well.
This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Ok but why penalizing the rest of the team for the rest of the game?
Wouldn't 15min of numerical inferiority + definite exclusion of the player from the game be already enough?
No.

Next question
GotheCanes
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by GotheCanes »

Enzedder wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:11 pm
BlackMac wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:35 pm
blindcider wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:26 pm Players should stop flying into rucks recklessly, then they wont get sent off for it.

Refs should also be more strict on enforcing the existing laws around rucks as well.
This. I always wonder, when they are targetting a player who is head down over the ball, what part of his body they think they are going to hit.
Totally agree. If every player arriving at a maul had to stay on their feet throughout, we'd end the torpedo clearouts immediately. In the meantime, keep red-carding the fuckwits and they will learn.
Exactly. If you knew flying in meant you'd be penalised then they'd soon learn
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DOB
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by DOB »

vh5150 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:14 am The game is an absolute lottery now and has been since 2016 when the rules started to soften up. Many tests and series marred by red cards of which a very small percentage could be deemed “intentional”. Rugby is not the game it once was and its frankly now a shit show.
The rules tightened up, they didn’t soften up. In the 90s and 2000s, an incident like the 2 reds so far might have been reviewed after the game and the player handed a 3-match ban; by the letter of the law, that meant it was an incident that would have been a red card if seen by the referee.
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Re: The multiplication of red cards in rugby because of the new laws about head tackling

Post by earl the beaver »

What I don't understand on the Fagerson card is what people are trying to argue as mitigation. Jones is actually being pulled upwards, if he hadn't been Fagerson would have hit him flush on the crown of the head rather than the cheek, which would have been worse.
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