Best and worst World Cup winning XV

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DeDoc
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DeDoc »

DOB wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:47 am Best, worst and again, qualifier that they did play in a RWC final.

Picking N'Tamack for the worst side, purely because while he was one of the best wings I've ever seen, he was in no way no how an inside centre.
DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:57 pm For shits and giggles, the players who started a final but didn't start in a winning side:

1) Ondarts, Leonard, Dowd, Soulette, Young, Sheridan, Poux, Sio, Vunipola
2) Dubroca, Moore, Ibanez, Cannon, Regan, Servat, Moore, George
3) Garuet, Probyn, Brown, Tournaire, Baxter, Kepu, Sinckler
4) Lorieux, Dooley, Robin Brooke, Benazzi, Harrison, Shaw , Pape, Douglas, Itoje
5) Condom, Ackford, Ian Jones, Pelous, Sharpe, Nallet, Simmons, Lawes
6) Erbani, Skinner, Mike Brewer, Lievremont, Smith, Corry, Bonnaire, Fardy, Curry
7) Champ, Winterbottom, Kronfield, Magne, Waugh, Moody, Dusatoir, Hooper, Underhill
8) Rodriguez, Teague, Zinzan, Juillet, Lyons, Easter, Harinordoquay, Pocock, Vunipola
9) Berbizier, Hill, Graham Bachop, Galthie, Gomarsall, Yachvilli, Genia, Youngs
10) Mesnel, Andrew, Mehrtens, Lamaison, Parra, Foley, Ford
11) Lagisquet, Underwood, Lomu, Dominici, Tiquiri, Cueto, Pallison, Mitchell, May
12) Charvet, Carling, Little, N'tmack, Flatley, Catt, Mermoz, Giteau, Farrell
13) Sella, Guscott, Bunce, Dourthe, Mortlock, Tait, Rougerie, Kurundrani, Tuilagi
14) Cambrebero, Halliday, Wilson, Bernat-Salles, Sailor, Sackey, Clerc, Ashley-Cooper, Watson
15) Blanco, Webb, Osbourne, Garbjosa, Rogers, Medard, Folau, Daly
Dedoc, since you read all this up, how many both won and lost a final? There must have been some double up on the England '03 and '07 teams, and I see you have Leonard on this list who came off the benc in '03.
Yeah, off the top of my head:
Leonard, Fitzpatrick, Kay, Catt, Tindall, Robinson in addition to the Aussies mentioned below
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Grandpa
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Grandpa »

Eugenius wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:27 am
Zakar wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:32 pm
mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:07 pm
HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen. Better than JP Pietersen

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV
Cory Jane better than Ben Tune :lol: :lol:

Better than Craig Green ?

I watched that bugger score every time he touched the ball in a club match once , 5 tries out of team total of 6 , he was incredible.
Craig Green... I always thought he was a lucky winger, cause he seemed so slow.. yet scored lots of tries... and then I saw him live... incredible... best player on the pitch. On TV you don't appreciate his swerve and ability to ghost through gaps... he was mesmeric.... a shame his All Black career was so short...
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Petros
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Petros »

DOB wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:47 am Best, worst and again, qualifier that they did play in a RWC final.

Picking N'Tamack for the worst side, purely because while he was one of the best wings I've ever seen, he was in no way no how an inside centre.
DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:57 pm For shits and giggles, the players who started a final but didn't start in a winning side:

1) Ondarts, Leonard, Dowd, Soulette, Young, Sheridan, Poux, Sio, Vunipola
2) Dubroca, Moore, Ibanez, Cannon, Regan, Servat, Moore, George
3) Garuet, Probyn, Brown, Tournaire, Baxter, Kepu, Sinckler
4) Lorieux, Dooley, Robin Brooke, Benazzi, Harrison, Shaw , Pape, Douglas, Itoje
5) Condom, Ackford, Ian Jones, Pelous, Sharpe, Nallet, Simmons, Lawes
6) Erbani, Skinner, Mike Brewer, Lievremont, Smith, Corry, Bonnaire, Fardy, Curry
7) Champ, Winterbottom, Kronfield, Magne, Waugh, Moody, Dusatoir, Hooper, Underhill
8) Rodriguez, Teague, Zinzan, Juillet, Lyons, Easter, Harinordoquay, Pocock, Vunipola
9) Berbizier, Hill, Graham Bachop, Galthie, Gomarsall, Yachvilli, Genia, Youngs
10) Mesnel, Andrew, Mehrtens, Lamaison, Parra, Foley, Ford
11) Lagisquet, Underwood, Lomu, Dominici, Tiquiri, Cueto, Pallison, Mitchell, May
12) Charvet, Carling, Little, N'tmack, Flatley, Catt, Mermoz, Giteau, Farrell
13) Sella, Guscott, Bunce, Dourthe, Mortlock, Tait, Rougerie, Kurundrani, Tuilagi
14) Cambrebero, Halliday, Wilson, Bernat-Salles, Sailor, Sackey, Clerc, Ashley-Cooper, Watson
15) Blanco, Webb, Osbourne, Garbjosa, Rogers, Medard, Folau, Daly
Dedoc, since you read all this up, how many both won and lost a final? There must have been some double up on the England '03 and '07 teams, and I see you have Leonard on this list who came off the benc in '03.
Surprisingly few
Jonny, Vickery, Kay and Robinson (LBND was on the bench in 2007 as were Catt, Corry and Moody in 2003)
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jdogscoop
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by jdogscoop »

Grandpa wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:20 pm
Eugenius wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:27 am
Zakar wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:32 pm
mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:07 pm
HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen. Better than JP Pietersen

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV
Cory Jane better than Ben Tune :lol: :lol:

Better than Craig Green ?

I watched that bugger score every time he touched the ball in a club match once , 5 tries out of team total of 6 , he was incredible.
Craig Green... I always thought he was a lucky winger, cause he seemed so slow.. yet scored lots of tries... and then I saw him live... incredible... best player on the pitch. On TV you don't appreciate his swerve and ability to ghost through gaps... he was mesmeric.... a shame his All Black career was so short...
Rakaia wing, not sure how he was listed as Canterbury rather than Mid Canterbury.

I will let it slide for the good of the nation.
Midfieldmaestro
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

Cannot agree with
DeDoc on Kirwan, Buck
Crazy Islander on Warwick Taylor
Grandpa on Craig Green
The above players except for Kirwan played for the nz Cavaliers in SA in 86 and tbh they shpuld rather have played only the Junior Springboks and not the boks as the likes of Gerber showed them a clean pair of heels.
Gerber then as a 34 yr old past his best scored twice against the Kirwan backline in 92 and we know how close to a hattrick Gerber was in that test.
I havent seen 87 final but can't believe these players were WC winners.

See below link for Gerber's try nr3 against Taylor & Green

https://youtu.be/nsJsB-OL730

below link an old Danie Gerber's first of 2 tries against Kirwan and co. in 92 and by this time he didn't had the luxury of the Prince of Wingers Carel du Plessis and Reinach next to him as he had in 86 or Ray Mordt 81

https://youtu.be/dTrghhVgBII

Ray Mordt in a Gerber backline

https://youtu.be/DuE0e-e1Y3g
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Floppykid
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Floppykid »

Petros wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:43 pm
DOB wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:47 am Best, worst and again, qualifier that they did play in a RWC final.

Picking N'Tamack for the worst side, purely because while he was one of the best wings I've ever seen, he was in no way no how an inside centre.
DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:57 pm For shits and giggles, the players who started a final but didn't start in a winning side:

1) Ondarts, Leonard, Dowd, Soulette, Young, Sheridan, Poux, Sio, Vunipola
2) Dubroca, Moore, Ibanez, Cannon, Regan, Servat, Moore, George
3) Garuet, Probyn, Brown, Tournaire, Baxter, Kepu, Sinckler
4) Lorieux, Dooley, Robin Brooke, Benazzi, Harrison, Shaw , Pape, Douglas, Itoje
5) Condom, Ackford, Ian Jones, Pelous, Sharpe, Nallet, Simmons, Lawes
6) Erbani, Skinner, Mike Brewer, Lievremont, Smith, Corry, Bonnaire, Fardy, Curry
7) Champ, Winterbottom, Kronfield, Magne, Waugh, Moody, Dusatoir, Hooper, Underhill
8) Rodriguez, Teague, Zinzan, Juillet, Lyons, Easter, Harinordoquay, Pocock, Vunipola
9) Berbizier, Hill, Graham Bachop, Galthie, Gomarsall, Yachvilli, Genia, Youngs
10) Mesnel, Andrew, Mehrtens, Lamaison, Parra, Foley, Ford
11) Lagisquet, Underwood, Lomu, Dominici, Tiquiri, Cueto, Pallison, Mitchell, May
12) Charvet, Carling, Little, N'tmack, Flatley, Catt, Mermoz, Giteau, Farrell
13) Sella, Guscott, Bunce, Dourthe, Mortlock, Tait, Rougerie, Kurundrani, Tuilagi
14) Cambrebero, Halliday, Wilson, Bernat-Salles, Sailor, Sackey, Clerc, Ashley-Cooper, Watson
15) Blanco, Webb, Osbourne, Garbjosa, Rogers, Medard, Folau, Daly
Dedoc, since you read all this up, how many both won and lost a final? There must have been some double up on the England '03 and '07 teams, and I see you have Leonard on this list who came off the benc in '03.
Surprisingly few
Jonny, Vickery, Kay and Robinson (LBND was on the bench in 2007 as were Catt, Corry and Moody in 2003)
Seems insane to leave out Dusa given he's produced two of the greatest ever performances at RWC finals stages.
mdaclarke
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mdaclarke »

May have to do a count and see if there is an agreed best/worst xv
Eugenius
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Eugenius »

Midfieldmaestro wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:58 pm Cannot agree with
DeDoc on Kirwan, Buck
Crazy Islander on Warwick Taylor
Grandpa on Craig Green
The above players except for Kirwan played for the nz Cavaliers in SA in 86 and tbh they shpuld rather have played only the Junior Springboks and not the boks as the likes of Gerber showed them a clean pair of heels.
Gerber then as a 34 yr old past his best scored twice against the Kirwan backline in 92 and we know how close to a hattrick Gerber was in that test.
I havent seen 87 final but can't believe these players were WC winners.

See below link for Gerber's try nr3 against Taylor & Green

https://youtu.be/nsJsB-OL730

below link an old Danie Gerber's first of 2 tries against Kirwan and co. in 92 and by this time he didn't had the luxury of the Prince of Wingers Carel du Plessis and Reinach next to him as he had in 86 or Ray Mordt 81

https://youtu.be/dTrghhVgBII

Ray Mordt in a Gerber backline

https://youtu.be/DuE0e-e1Y3g

You do realise that this ragtag bunch of uncoached holiday makers actually won a test and got close in another .

Doesn’t say much for this particular Bok team if you ask me .
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DOB
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DOB »

Floppykid wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:38 pm
Petros wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:43 pm
DOB wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:47 am
DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:57 pm
6) Erbani, Skinner, Mike Brewer, Lievremont, Smith, Corry, Bonnaire, Fardy, Curry
7) Champ, Winterbottom, Kronfield, Magne, Waugh, Moody, Dusatoir, Hooper, Underhill
8) Rodriguez, Teague, Zinzan, Juillet, Lyons, Easter, Harinordoquay, Pocock, Vunipola
Seems insane to leave out Dusa given he's produced two of the greatest ever performances at RWC finals stages.
I'd probably pick him at 6 over Bonnaire, but he wasn't listed there, and it's a tough call between him and Magne. Magne was one of my all-time favourite players, so it's hard to leave him out.

I've just noticed that I went for an all-French backrow for the best, and all-English for the worst. I stand by my calls.
Midfieldmaestro
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

Ragdag holiday makers good name as they shouldn't have played boks rather junior boks even if they won 1
Worst perforrers in them but can't judge names thrown above in WC final I did not see.
What I have seen Worst player any final Weepu otherwise a good player, missed penalties
Donald best slotted one. On that performance better than Carter 2011 who did not drop but 2015 Carter better.
Liked Wilkinson Larkham and these 2 below better best
Stransky xtra time dead of tme

https://youtu.be/I-x0oDzz2GU

and could do it still 20 years later

https://youtu.be/_wQPQav19NQ

Unofficial WC in SA 87 the best 10

https://youtu.be/A-2Degq4a-Q
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