Best and worst World Cup winning XV

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mdaclarke
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Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mdaclarke »

As this is a Rugby Forum, I wonder what your best and Worst world cup winning starting XV would be? I must admit I am not 100% sure and will have to think about it, but would be interesting to know yours.
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hermie
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by hermie »

As in the 15 players who started the final? Probably the 2015 ABs.
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HighKingLeinster
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by HighKingLeinster »

Tindall at 12 for the worst xv
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mdaclarke »

hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:48 pm As in the 15 players who started the final? Probably the 2015 ABs.
Sorry I meant a composite 15 out of all the teams that have won the tournament.
backrow
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by backrow »

HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:12 pm Tindall at 12 for the worst xv
I am shocked that you would choose an Englishman
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hermie
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by hermie »

mdaclarke wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:20 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:48 pm As in the 15 players who started the final? Probably the 2015 ABs.
Sorry I meant a composite 15 out of all the teams that have won the tournament.
Oh right.

Best:
Os du Randt (1995, 2007)
Sean Fitzpatrick (1987)
Phil Vickery (2003)
Brad Thorn (2011)
John Eales (1991, 99)
Richard Hill (2003)
Richie McCaw (2011, 15)
Duane Vermuelen (2019)
Joost van der Westhuizen (1995) or Fourie du Preez (2007), definitely a Springbok
Dan Carter (2015)
Bryan Habana (2007)
Tim Horan (1991, 99)
Conrad Smith (2011, 15)
Jason Robinson (2003)
Ben Smith (2015)

Few tough calls particularly in the 2nd row. Worst would take a bit longer to think about.
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earl the beaver
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by earl the beaver »

Worst:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Roussow
9. Dawson
10. James
11.
12. Tindall
13.
14.
15.
rialtoblue
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by rialtoblue »

hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:35 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:20 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:48 pm As in the 15 players who started the final? Probably the 2015 ABs.
Sorry I meant a composite 15 out of all the teams that have won the tournament.
Oh right.

Best:
Os du Randt (1995, 2007)
Sean Fitzpatrick (1987)
Phil Vickery (2003)
Brad Thorn (2011)
John Eales (1991, 99)
Richard Hill (2003)
Richie McCaw (2011, 15)
Duane Vermuelen (2019)
Joost van der Westhuizen (1995) or Fourie du Preez (2007), definitely a Springbok
Dan Carter (2015)
Bryan Habana (2007)
Tim Horan (1991, 99)
Conrad Smith (2011, 15)
Jason Robinson (2003)
Ben Smith (2015)

Few tough calls particularly in the 2nd row. Worst would take a bit longer to think about.
Richard Hill ahead of Michael Jones is a big call
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HighKingLeinster
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by HighKingLeinster »

Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
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DOB
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DOB »

earl the beaver wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:44 pm Worst:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Roussow
9. Dawson
10. James
11.
12. Tindall
13.
14.
15.
Even if he didn’t play, there’s got to be room for Felix Jones in there. And Ben Cohen on the other wing.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by A5D5E5 »

HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:12 pm Tindall at 12 for the worst xv
This has probably only been mentioned about 10^437 times, but Tindall played at 13. He just wore a 12 on his shirt.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DeDoc »

Nice idea for a thread. By way of contribution while I think, here are the options from the first 4 world cups:

1) Steve McDowall, Tony Daly, Os du Randt, Richard Harry
2) Sean Fitz, Phil Kearns, Chris Roussow, Michael Foley
3) Olo Brown, Ewan McKenzie, Balie Swart, Andrew Blades
4) Murray Pierce, Rod McCall, Kobus Wiese, David Giffen
5) Gary Whetton, John Eales, Hannes Strydom
6) Alan Whetton, Simon Poidevan, Piennar, Matt Cockbain
7) Michael Jones, Willy O, Ruben Kruger, David Wilson
8) Buck Shelford, Troy Coker, Mark Andrews, Toutai Kefu
9) David Kirk, Nick FJ, Joost, Gregan
10) Grant Fox, Lynagh, Stransky, Larkham
11) Craig Green, Campese, Chester Williams, Joe Roff
12) Warwick Taylor, Horan, Hennie Le Roux
13) Joe Stanley, Jason Little, Japie Mulder, Dan Herbert
14) John Kirwan, Bob Egerton, James Small, Ben Tune
15) John Gallagher, Marty Roebuck, Andre Joubert, Matt Burke
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mr bungle
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mr bungle »

HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen. Better than JP Pietersen

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV
Last edited by mr bungle on Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
CanNZ2000
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by CanNZ2000 »

hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:35 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:20 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:48 pm As in the 15 players who started the final? Probably the 2015 ABs.
Sorry I meant a composite 15 out of all the teams that have won the tournament.
Oh right.

Best:
Os du Randt (1995, 2007)
Sean Fitzpatrick (1987)
Phil Vickery (2003)
Brad Thorn (2011)
John Eales (1991, 99)
Richard Hill (2003)
Richie McCaw (2011, 15)
Duane Vermuelen (2019)
Joost van der Westhuizen (1995) or Fourie du Preez (2007), definitely a Springbok
Dan Carter (2015)
Bryan Habana (2007)
Tim Horan (1991, 99)
Conrad Smith (2011, 15)
Jason Robinson (2003)
Ben Smith (2015)

Few tough calls particularly in the 2nd row. Worst would take a bit longer to think about.
Great line up, was Johnson a 4 or 5? Can never remember, either way, I would probably switch him in for Brad Thorn at 4. As you said, some tough calls in the 2nd row, many good ones.
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HighKingLeinster
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by HighKingLeinster »

mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:07 pm
HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen.

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV.
The 87-95 tournaments were before my time. Jane just struck me as a solid but unspectacular winger, especially given some the wings you had over the years
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mr bungle
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mr bungle »

Sounds like you never watched him enough. He went from being considered average coming through the ranks to being world class. Best pound for pound fend going.
Monk Zombie
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Monk Zombie »

Cory Jane was a decent winger but I would not say he was ever world class
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Zakar »

mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:07 pm
HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen. Better than JP Pietersen

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV
Cory Jane better than Ben Tune :lol: :lol:
Monk Zombie
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Monk Zombie »

Zakar wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:32 pm
mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:07 pm
HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen. Better than JP Pietersen

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV
Cory Jane better than Ben Tune :lol: :lol:
and JP Pietersen :roll:

in fact i doubt he was better than Cohen
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DeDoc »

and the rest of the contenders - compiled to one handy list

1) Steve McDowall, Tony Daly, Os du Randt, Richard Harry, Trevor Woodman, Tony Woodcock, Joe Moody, Beast
2) Sean Fitz, Phil Kearns, Chris Roussow, Michael Foley, Steve Thompson, John Smit, Keven Mealamu, Dane Coles, Bongi Mbonambi
3) John Drake, Ewan McKenzie, Balie Swart, Andrew Blades, Phil Vickery, CJ Van der Linde, Owen Franks, Frans Melherbe
4) Murray Pierce, Rod McCall, Kobus Wiese, David Giffen, Martin Johnson, Bakkies Botha, Brad Thorn, Brodie Retalick, Etzebeth
5) Gary Whetton, John Eales, Hannes Strydom, Ben Kay, Victor Matfield, Sam Whitelock, Lood de Jager
6) Alan Whetton, Simon Poidevan, Piennar, Matt Cockbain, Richard Hill, Schalk Burger, Jerome Kaino, Siya Kolisi
7) Michael Jones, Willy O, Ruben Kruger, David Wilson, Neil Back, Juan Smith, McCaw, Pieter-Steph du Toit
8) Buck Shelford, Troy Coker, Mark Andrews, Toutai Kefu, Dallaglio, Danie Roussouw, Kieran Read, Vermeulen
9) David Kirk, Nick FJ, Joost, Gregan, Matt Dawson, Fourie du Preez, Piri Weepu, Aaron Smith, Faf de Klerk
10) Grant Fox, Lynagh, Stransky, Larkham, Wilkinson, Butch James, Aaron Cruden, Dan Carter, Handre Pollard
11) Craig Green, Campese, Chester Williams, Joe Roff, Ben Cohen, Bryan Habana, Richard Kahui, Julian Savea, Mapimpi
12) Warwick Taylor, Horan, Hennie Le Roux, Will Greenwood, Francois Steyn, Ma'a Nonu, de Allende
13) Joe Stanley, Jason Little, Japie Mulder, Dan Herbert, Mike Tindall, Jaque Fourie, Conrad Smith, Lukhanyo Am
14) John Kirwan, Bob Egerton, James Small, Ben Tune, Jason Robinson, JP Pieterson, Cory Jane, Milner-Skudder, Cheslin Kolbe
15) John Gallagher, Marty Roebuck, Andre Joubert, Matt Burke, Josh Lewsey, Percy Montgomery, Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Willie Le Roux

edit: Mistakenly had Olo Brown for John Drake
Last edited by DeDoc on Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DeDoc »

Ok, my attempt at best - judged as how dominant were they relative to their peers and expectation of the position at the time

Os, Fitz, Vickery
Johnson, Eales
PS du Toit, McCaw, Buck
Joost, Carter
Horan, Smith
Campese, Kirwan, Gallagher

Honourable mentions - Olo Brown, Thorn and Etzebeth as tight locks, Kaino who loses out by a whisker, with Juan Smith just behind. Hill who I also rathered as a 7. Also Michael Jones way up there when he played 6, and a shoe-in for 7 if McCaw is injured. Maybe Dallaglio. Habana, Robinson and Roff on the wings deserve mention. Greenwood, Nonu.

Worst is hard, and I fear I'd be picking some names just cos I can't remember them as players
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:49 pm Ok, my attempt at best - judged as how dominant were they relative to their peers and expectation of the position at the time

Os, Fitz, Vickery
Johnson, Eales
PS du Toit, McCaw, Buck
Joost, Carter
Horan, Smith
Campese, Kirwan, Gallagher

Honourable mentions - Olo Brown, Thorn and Etzebeth as tight locks, Kaino who loses out by a whisker, with Juan Smith just behind. Hill who I also rathered as a 7. Also Michael Jones way up there when he played 6, and a shoe-in for 7 if McCaw is injured. Maybe Dallaglio. Habana, Robinson and Roff on the wings deserve mention. Greenwood, Nonu.

Worst is hard, and I fear I'd be picking some names just cos I can't remember them as players
Olo Brown never won a RWC.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by de_Selby »

mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:16 pm Sounds like you never watched him enough. He went from being considered average coming through the ranks to being world class. Best pound for pound fend going.
Agreed, dunno how he could be rated anywhere close to the worst of the world cup winning wingers. He was one of those guys that always made the right decision (a la Ben Smith) and a great kicker too
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booji boy
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by booji boy »

CanNZ2000 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:10 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:35 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:20 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:48 pm As in the 15 players who started the final? Probably the 2015 ABs.
Sorry I meant a composite 15 out of all the teams that have won the tournament.
Oh right.

Best:
Os du Randt (1995, 2007)
Sean Fitzpatrick (1987)
Phil Vickery (2003)
Brad Thorn (2011)
John Eales (1991, 99)
Richard Hill (2003)
Richie McCaw (2011, 15)
Duane Vermuelen (2019)
Joost van der Westhuizen (1995) or Fourie du Preez (2007), definitely a Springbok
Dan Carter (2015)
Bryan Habana (2007)
Tim Horan (1991, 99)
Conrad Smith (2011, 15)
Jason Robinson (2003)
Ben Smith (2015)

Few tough calls particularly in the 2nd row. Worst would take a bit longer to think about.
Great line up, was Johnson a 4 or 5? Can never remember, either way, I would probably switch him in for Brad Thorn at 4. As you said, some tough calls in the 2nd row, many good ones.
Surely Victor Matfield is in the mix and even Brodie Rettalick. Both ahead of Thorn anyway.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Floppykid »

DDA for worst.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by CanNZ2000 »

booji boy wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:26 pm
CanNZ2000 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:10 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:35 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:20 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:48 pm As in the 15 players who started the final? Probably the 2015 ABs.
Sorry I meant a composite 15 out of all the teams that have won the tournament.
Oh right.

Best:
Os du Randt (1995, 2007)
Sean Fitzpatrick (1987)
Phil Vickery (2003)
Brad Thorn (2011)
John Eales (1991, 99)
Richard Hill (2003)
Richie McCaw (2011, 15)
Duane Vermuelen (2019)
Joost van der Westhuizen (1995) or Fourie du Preez (2007), definitely a Springbok
Dan Carter (2015)
Bryan Habana (2007)
Tim Horan (1991, 99)
Conrad Smith (2011, 15)
Jason Robinson (2003)
Ben Smith (2015)

Few tough calls particularly in the 2nd row. Worst would take a bit longer to think about.
Great line up, was Johnson a 4 or 5? Can never remember, either way, I would probably switch him in for Brad Thorn at 4. As you said, some tough calls in the 2nd row, many good ones.
Surely Victor Matfield is in the mix and even Brodie Rettalick. Both ahead of Thorn anyway.
For sure. I am huge fan of both of them. You can make a solid case for any of them really.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DeDoc »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:56 pm
DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:49 pm Ok, my attempt at best - judged as how dominant were they relative to their peers and expectation of the position at the time

Os, Fitz, Vickery
Johnson, Eales
PS du Toit, McCaw, Buck
Joost, Carter
Horan, Smith
Campese, Kirwan, Gallagher

Honourable mentions - Olo Brown, Thorn and Etzebeth as tight locks, Kaino who loses out by a whisker, with Juan Smith just behind. Hill who I also rathered as a 7. Also Michael Jones way up there when he played 6, and a shoe-in for 7 if McCaw is injured. Maybe Dallaglio. Habana, Robinson and Roff on the wings deserve mention. Greenwood, Nonu.

Worst is hard, and I fear I'd be picking some names just cos I can't remember them as players
Olo Brown never won a RWC.
Yeah, my bad - somehow my Brain inserted him into the 1987 team as I speed read :lol: Apologies to John Drake who I have absolutely zero recollection of! Was Olo Brown on the 1995 team? Wasn't Richard Loe floating around somewhere about that time too?
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Flyin Ryan »

What 10s are rated worse than New Zealand's #4 on their depth chart in 2011?
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DOB
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DOB »

My picks for BEST and worst below, with the caveat that I didn't see the 1987 RWC. And also that the "Worst RWC Winner" is still a "RWC Winner", and is up against some pretty good players (particularly at 7, unless you can include subs like, say, Joe Worsley).

Also, I think wherever you got your list, they got Willy O and Poidevin wrong way round.
DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:38 pm and the rest of the contenders - compiled to one handy list

1) Steve McDowall, Tony Daly, Os du Randt, Richard Harry, Trevor Woodman, Tony Woodcock, Joe Moody, Beast
2) Sean Fitz, Phil Kearns, Chris Roussow, Michael Foley, Steve Thompson, John Smit, Keven Mealamu, Dane Coles, Bongi Mbonambi
3) John Drake, Ewan McKenzie, Balie Swart, Andrew Blades, Phil Vickery, CJ Van der Linde, Owen Franks, Frans Melherbe
4) Murray Pierce, Rod McCall, Kobus Wiese, David Giffen, Martin Johnson, Bakkies Botha, Brad Thorn, Brodie Retalick, Etzebeth
5) Gary Whetton, John Eales, Hannes Strydom, Ben Kay, Victor Matfield, Sam Whitelock, Lood de Jager
6) Alan Whetton, Simon Poidevan, Piennar, Matt Cockbain, Richard Hill, Schalk Burger, Jerome Kaino, Siya Kolisi
7) Michael Jones, Willy O, Ruben Kruger, David Wilson, Neil Back, Juan Smith, McCaw, Pieter-Steph du Toit
8) Buck Shelford, Troy Coker, Mark Andrews, Toutai Kefu, Dallaglio, Danie Roussouw, Kieran Read, Vermeulen
9) David Kirk, Nick FJ, Joost, Gregan, Matt Dawson, Fourie du Preez, Piri Weepu, Aaron Smith, Faf de Klerk
10) Grant Fox, Lynagh, Stransky, Larkham, Wilkinson, Butch James, Aaron Cruden, Dan Carter, Handre Pollard
11) Craig Green, Campese, Chester Williams, Joe Roff, Ben Cohen, Bryan Habana, Richard Kahui, Julian Savea, Mapimpi
12) Warwick Taylor, Horan, Hennie Le Roux, Will Greenwood, Francois Steyn, Ma'a Nonu, de Allende
13) Joe Stanley, Jason Little, Japie Mulder, Dan Herbert, Mike Tindall, Jaque Fourie, Conrad Smith, Lukhanyo Am
14) John Kirwan, Bob Egerton, James Small, Ben Tune, Jason Robinson, JP Pieterson, Cory Jane, Milner-Skudder, Cheslin Kolbe
15) John Gallagher, Marty Roebuck, Andre Joubert, Matt Burke, Josh Lewsey, Percy Montgomery, Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Willie Le Roux

edit: Mistakenly had Olo Brown for John Drake
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Magpie26 »

1) Os du Randt
2) Sean Fitz
3) Phil Vickery
4) Brodie Retalick
5) John Eales
6) Richard Hill
7) McCaw
8.) Kieran Read
9) Fourie du Preez
10) Dan Carter
11) Campese
12) Horan
13) Conrad Smith
14) John Kirwan
15) Ben Smith

a couple of 'justs' in there and definitely not the best combinations.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by DeDoc »

Interesting picks DOB. If you had seen the 87 WC then no way would you have Kefu ahead of Buck. For my money I'd have Kefu mid-table on that list (which is full of wonderful players it needs saying! :lol: ) Suspect you're about Willie-O and Poidevan alright.

A few others on the 'worst-of' list I might do differently - Cohen was limited but effective (and dislikeable), but perhaps better than Craig Green or Kahui. I'd take Steyn over the other two Saffas I think. Tindall was no baller, but with a suitable player (e.g. Greenwood) inside he was pretty effective. Very solid in defense, could truck it up and good kicking game. I'd put him ahead of Mulder. Small was better than Egerton for my money too.

An interesting follow-on thought. What kind of side would you get from a "Best players to start a World Cup final but never win one" - AB 95, England 91, France 87 for starters had some belting players - thinking Craig Dowd, Ian Jones, Zinzan, Kronfield, Lomu, Cullen, Guscott, Underwood, Sella, Blanco etc
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Shirley the worst winning World Cup flu half is Beaver... isn’t that the joke...

And where do you draw the line on subs vs starters?

This is a classic case of least best not worst - and very subjective.

Apart from DeDoc - no way Tindal is ever better than Mulder.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by FairWeather_Aussie »

Surely, for the worst list it has to be Donald Duck at number 10, who played the 2011 final at fly half. I’m pretty sure he was about 192nd in terms of preferred NZ fly halves, but everyone ahead of him had been injured by that point.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

Never seen 87 and 91 were not allowed and were boycotted on tv from seeing it, so don't know any of those players
Best I am aware of (sa 87, 91 and WCs 95 onwards)
Joubert(95)
Habana (2007)
Danie Gerber (Unofficial WC for me the Currie Cup) Ma'a Nonu (Official WCs)
Tim Horan
Cheslin Kolbe (2019)
Naas Botha (Unofficial WC for me the Currie Cup '87-in the mud 4 brilliant dropgoals some from his own half and 4 penalties)Joel Stransky (Official WCs)
Joost
Os and Beast
Uli Schmidt (Unofficial WC for me the Currie Cup '87) Phil Kearns (Official WCs)
Owen Franks
Pieter Steph du Toit
John Eales
Martin Johnson
Richie McCaw
Duane Vermeulen
Last edited by Midfieldmaestro on Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:46 am, edited 6 times in total.
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mr bungle
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mr bungle »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:50 pm What 10s are rated worse than New Zealand's #4 on their depth chart in 2011?
The Boks No. 1 in 2007 was Butch James, ffs.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mr bungle »

Monk Zombie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:34 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:32 pm
mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:07 pm
HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen. Better than JP Pietersen

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV
Cory Jane better than Ben Tune :lol: :lol:
and JP Pietersen :roll:

in fact i doubt he was better than Cohen
Fair call on Tune, I always liked him. Still arguable who was the better player.

JP Pietersen was a solid Saffer carthorse in comparison.
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by ScarfaceClaw »

Zakar wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:32 pm
mr bungle wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:07 pm
HighKingLeinster wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm Cory Jane on the wing of the worst
We’re all the winning wingers that good? Jane was a far better wing than the makeshift Kahui for starters. Better than Craig Green. Better than Bob Egerton. Better than Ben Tune. Better than Ben Cohen. Better than JP Pietersen

Butch James for 10 for crappiest XV
Cory Jane better than Ben Tune :lol: :lol:
Better than Craig Green. Hmmm.
mdaclarke
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by mdaclarke »

DeDoc wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:38 pm and the rest of the contenders - compiled to one handy list

1) Steve McDowall, Tony Daly, Os du Randt, Richard Harry, Trevor Woodman, Tony Woodcock, Joe Moody, Beast
2) Sean Fitz, Phil Kearns, Chris Roussow, Michael Foley, Steve Thompson, John Smit, Keven Mealamu, Dane Coles, Bongi Mbonambi
3) John Drake, Ewan McKenzie, Balie Swart, Andrew Blades, Phil Vickery, CJ Van der Linde, Owen Franks, Frans Melherbe
4) Murray Pierce, Rod McCall, Kobus Wiese, David Giffen, Martin Johnson, Bakkies Botha, Brad Thorn, Brodie Retalick, Etzebeth
5) Gary Whetton, John Eales, Hannes Strydom, Ben Kay, Victor Matfield, Sam Whitelock, Lood de Jager
6) Alan Whetton, Simon Poidevan, Piennar, Matt Cockbain, Richard Hill, Schalk Burger, Jerome Kaino, Siya Kolisi
7) Michael Jones, Willy O, Ruben Kruger, David Wilson, Neil Back, Juan Smith, McCaw, Pieter-Steph du Toit
8) Buck Shelford, Troy Coker, Mark Andrews, Toutai Kefu, Dallaglio, Danie Roussouw, Kieran Read, Vermeulen
9) David Kirk, Nick FJ, Joost, Gregan, Matt Dawson, Fourie du Preez, Piri Weepu, Aaron Smith, Faf de Klerk
10) Grant Fox, Lynagh, Stransky, Larkham, Wilkinson, Butch James, Aaron Cruden, Dan Carter, Handre Pollard
11) Craig Green, Campese, Chester Williams, Joe Roff, Ben Cohen, Bryan Habana, Richard Kahui, Julian Savea, Mapimpi
12) Warwick Taylor, Horan, Hennie Le Roux, Will Greenwood, Francois Steyn, Ma'a Nonu, de Allende
13) Joe Stanley, Jason Little, Japie Mulder, Dan Herbert, Mike Tindall, Jaque Fourie, Conrad Smith, Lukhanyo Am
14) John Kirwan, Bob Egerton, James Small, Ben Tune, Jason Robinson, JP Pieterson, Cory Jane, Milner-Skudder, Cheslin Kolbe
15) John Gallagher, Marty Roebuck, Andre Joubert, Matt Burke, Josh Lewsey, Percy Montgomery, Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Willie Le Roux

edit: Mistakenly had Olo Brown for John Drake
For Me Best first, Worst second ( my knowledge pre 2003 is a bit limited)

1. Beast, Woodman
2. Smit, Thompson
3. Vickery, Franks
4. Etzebeth, Thorn
5. Matfield, Kay
6. Burger, Kolisi
7. McCaw, Hill
8. Vermulen, Roussouw
9. Du Preez, Dawson
10. Wilkinson, James
11. Habana, Cohen
12. Nonu, Greenwood
13 Smith, Tindall
14. Kolbe, Jane
15. Burke, Lewsey

It's actually really hard, both teams could have been very different and there aren't many nailed on best or worst players.
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Zakar
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by Zakar »

Depends what you mean by Best.

Not a single player from 87, 91 or 95 would get in the 2019 team if you picked them up in a time machine.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Best and worst World Cup winning XV

Post by CrazyIslander »

Best
1. Steve McDowell
2. Phil Kearns
3. Phil Vickery
4. Brodie Retalick
5. John Eales
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Michael Jones
8. Toutai Kefu
9. Joost
10. Michael Lynagh
11. David Campese
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Jaques Fourie
14. Bryan Habana
15. Matt Burke
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