6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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message #2527204
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Frodder wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:08 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:24 pm
Frodder wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:07 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:38 pm What will be the post-match whining from the welch this year?

EJs little shit place that has got three million people
What does this mean? Must try harder
AWJ lowering himself (and breaking law 7C btw) to whinge openly and get a fellow professional banned. The hilarious Howley waving his bit of paper saying the ref got it wrong .... WoL generally. That sort of crap.
This aged well
As I said.... you only do it when you lose.

Won;t catch Eddie running around whinging like Howley and having press conferences like AWJ

It's a question of decorum and not being chippy.
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bessantj
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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I only managed to catch pieces of the match on someone's phone as I was working in Machynlleth. Superb result for Wales, I thought England were there for the taking after I saw they'd put in a few Sarries players. First try never should have stood but Jesus, England were dog shit at points. Chuffed for Wales, had lines England there's always next year.
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Cartman
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Cartman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:14 pm Who is faster
https://youtu.be/A-4Op1nekWQ
Even Farrell was quicker than Johnny May
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Cartman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:14 pm Who is faster
https://youtu.be/A-4Op1nekWQ
Rees-Zammit had a broken leg as well.
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eldanielfire
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by eldanielfire »

message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:16 pm
Cartman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:14 pm Who is faster
https://youtu.be/A-4Op1nekWQ
Even Farrell was quicker than Johnny May
To be fair, didn't May just have a big run? Was probably already gased.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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eldanielfire wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:24 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:16 pm
Cartman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:14 pm Who is faster
https://youtu.be/A-4Op1nekWQ
Even Farrell was quicker than Johnny May
To be fair, didn't May just have a big run? Was probably already gased.
He'd been caught a few times. Either he took an early knock, or he wasnt fit before the start.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Image

And we love you all!
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MrDominator
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by MrDominator »

That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by ovalball »

Genge receiving death threats, evidently he didn't clap the Welsh team. WTF is wrong with people.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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ovalball wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:48 am Genge receiving death threats, evidently he didn't clap the Welsh team. WTF is wrong with people.
The Internet was a mistake.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by Jeff the Bear »

MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 am That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
Poor MrDom, fixating on all the wrong stats. There's only one stat that counts, and that's the one that lives in the top left of the screen while the game is on.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by eldanielfire »

MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 am That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
A shame only one stat matters.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by blindcider »

Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:03 am
MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 am That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
Poor MrDom, fixating on all the wrong stats. There's only one stat that counts, and that's the one that lives in the top left of the screen while the game is on.
Remember it's pretty much only Dublin Duplicate saying this though. Nearly every other English poster has agreed that it was the right result on the day
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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blindcider wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:45 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:03 am
MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 am That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
Poor MrDom, fixating on all the wrong stats. There's only one stat that counts, and that's the one that lives in the top left of the screen while the game is on.
Remember it's pretty much only Dublin Duplicate saying this though. Nearly every other English poster has agreed that it was the right result on the day
BC talks the truth. However mr flaps was kinda going postal as well
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Da iawn diolch wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:21 pm If anyone rewatches the match, there's a fantastic counterpoint to the slew of red cards and moronic tackling.

At 27min Itoje finds himself as the second man tackling a dipping player. Instead of doing the f**king dumb thing of going for a massive shoulder shot with a tucked arm, he leads with his hands, guides the player to deck and contests the ball.

So refreshing to see a player making a smart decision.
Itoje made a decision that DIDN'T lead to a penalty? Sh!t man....
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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I'm done with Genge. Maybe he'd be great in a gangster film or something.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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If interested...

Metres made;

ENG - 382
WAL - 247

Kicks from hand;

WAL - 36
ENG - 24

Possession;

WAL - 55%
ENG - 45%

Clean Breaks;

ENG - 10
WAL - 4

Defenders Beaten;

ENG - 19
WAL - 10

Turnovers;

WAL - 12
ENG - 10

Penalties Conceded;

WAL - 9
ENG - 14

both teams really good on securing their own set piece. Impressive from wales to secure 16 of 17 lineouts! We only had 5, securing 4 of them. Scums both 100% though
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by MrDominator »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:41 am
MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 am That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
A shame only one stat matters.
You guys must find the whole xG concept in football really confusing.
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Hawk97
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by Hawk97 »

Those stats; EJ vindicated?

Looks like we went away from kicking and defending, to a more running based style of play. Haven't had that many clean breaks for ages. But we lose heavily, and when we play kick-and-defend, we've tended to win close games.

Unless it was due to the scoreboard pressure immediately and having to abandon the usual stuff.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by MrDominator »

blindcider wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:45 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:03 am
MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 am That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
Poor MrDom, fixating on all the wrong stats. There's only one stat that counts, and that's the one that lives in the top left of the screen while the game is on.
Remember it's pretty much only Dublin Duplicate saying this though. Nearly every other English poster has agreed that it was the right result on the day
Yeah, because most English fans are dullards who prefer to act the good chap even when the truth is staring them in the eyes...
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by MrDominator »

Hawk97 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:42 am Those stats; EJ vindicated?

Looks like we went away from kicking and defending, to a more running based style of play. Haven't had that many clean breaks for ages. But we lose heavily, and when we play kick-and-defend, we've tended to win close games.
You can only judge these things over the medium-term.

Ultimately, though, kick-and-defend is unsustainable. Fans get bored, the players dislike it, and the close wins eventually turn into close defeats. You need more strings to your bow, then you can tighten up again if necessary.

And the truth - though everyone is far too prim to say it - is that England battered Wales on Saturday and would have won comfortably if the ref hadn't gifted them 14 points, plus made numerous other odd decisions (the very first pen should have been against Wales for North not supporting his own body weight).

Play like that again and we'll beat the French and Irish.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Congratulations England for their moral victory :thumbup:
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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P in VG wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:04 am Congratulations England for their moral victory :thumbup:
:lol: :lol:

The most pleasing aspect of the absolute pasting Wales handed out on Saturday has been the epic meltdowns of those staunch English Yeoman like the Dominating Dullard & Flaps.

Glorious stuff.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 am That performance debate we were having last night...

From Russ Petty:
England 59% over gainline, 69% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v Wales

Wales 31% over gainline, 45% of rucks = 0-3 seconds v England
We flippin' murdered 'em.
You should stick to computer games if you like maths and stats.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by Sefton »

I know rugby hasn't changed that much since I retired, other than lifting in the line-out, feet on the ground for calling a mark, 5 points for a try etc, but I don't ever remember walking off the pitch being happy because we won the stats battle.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by eldanielfire »

Sefton wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:34 pm I know rugby hasn't changed that much since I retired, other than lifting in the line-out, feet on the ground for calling a mark, 5 points for a try etc, but I don't ever remember walking off the pitch being happy because we won the stats battle.
There were just called "the moral victory" back in your day ;)
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Sefton wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:34 pm I know rugby hasn't changed that much since I retired, other than lifting in the line-out, feet on the ground for calling a mark, 5 points for a try etc, but I don't ever remember walking off the pitch being happy because we won the stats battle.
Ah the days of boot money and Dusty Hare and a few years later getting off the train at Blundell Sands to watch Waterloo before a night out in the Grafton.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Sefton wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:34 pm I know rugby hasn't changed that much since I retired, other than lifting in the line-out, feet on the ground for calling a mark, 5 points for a try etc, but I don't ever remember walking off the pitch being happy because we won the stats battle.
If you felt that you had been better in most facets of the game than the opposition and still contrived to lose, you'd feel worse if you'd been all round second best.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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I see the BBC hasn't opened up any articles for HYS comments. A wise move
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by MrDominator »

Sefton wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:34 pm I know rugby hasn't changed that much since I retired, other than lifting in the line-out, feet on the ground for calling a mark, 5 points for a try etc, but I don't ever remember walking off the pitch being happy because we won the stats battle.
Granted - and no one is suggesting England did anything other than lose.

I think as we get more sophisticated in how we analyse games, however, it's becoming more important to 'look through' results and understand how much natural variance there is (bounce of the ball, refereeing, etc) in the outcome of games.

Rugby badly needs an xG equivalent, because at the moment most analysis, especially on here, is as basic and bovine as "look at the scoreboard". We can do much better than that.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Sefton wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:34 pm I know rugby hasn't changed that much since I retired, other than lifting in the line-out, feet on the ground for calling a mark, 5 points for a try etc, but I don't ever remember walking off the pitch being happy because we won the stats battle.
I don't remember being happy for winning the front row battle and losing the game...even more pissed off is my recollection.
Don't remember being happy losing the front row and winning the game though...maybe I just didn't enjoy playing?
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by Sefton »

I didn't know front rows possessed the requisite evolution of the limbic system to enable emotional responses.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by backrow »

One of itojes penalities was where he tackled the scrum half at a lineout and did a rip of the ball as part of the tackle , but got zapped for it. I think navidi did something similar a few mins later and wasn’t pinged - did anyone else notice this ? I thought itoje was not on the ground when he made the rip and so shouldn’t have been penalised , bringing his own count down to just six.

I dislike in the modern game how you can only do one thing before being out of the game, and the speed at which someone is pinged for anything - it’s like the refs looking for a reason to blow the whistle, instead of looking for a reason not to.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:43 pm One of itojes penalities was where he tackled the scrum half at a lineout and did a rip of the ball as part of the tackle , but got zapped for it. I think navidi did something similar a few mins later and wasn’t pinged - did anyone else notice this ?
Wasn't it Mako got zapped for picking it up offside? Navidi did do the same thing yeah, and they got the knock on call instead. It was one of the inconsistencies


(not an excuse, just a fact - we lost because we deserved to)
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by Sefton »

C69 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:44 pm
Sefton wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:34 pm I know rugby hasn't changed that much since I retired, other than lifting in the line-out, feet on the ground for calling a mark, 5 points for a try etc, but I don't ever remember walking off the pitch being happy because we won the stats battle.
Ah the days of boot money and Dusty Hare and a few years later getting off the train at Blundell Sands to watch Waterloo before a night out in the Grafton.
I'll bet good money you were one of those nefarious types hanging around the upstairs waiting for the first granny to throw up and pass out.
Last edited by Sefton on Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

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Hawk97 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:53 pm
backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:43 pm One of itojes penalities was where he tackled the scrum half at a lineout and did a rip of the ball as part of the tackle , but got zapped for it. I think navidi did something similar a few mins later and wasn’t pinged - did anyone else notice this ?
Wasn't it Mako got zapped for picking it up offside? Navidi did do the same thing yeah, and they got the knock on call instead. It was one of the inconsistencies


(not an excuse, just a fact - we lost because we deserved to)
These things happen in games. The ref doesn't see everything. You just have to be squeaky clean when the ref is after you. Leave the 50/50s alone for a while.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by blindcider »

The only two things about the reffing which really annoyed me were the following and not really related to any calls - I can live with mistakes and 50-50 calls as sh*t happens and refs/TMOs are only human (England benefitted from a grey area against Italy with Mays dive after all).

1. The fact he allowed Wales to fanny about for an age huddling before each lineout. He even called them on it once and then let them keep doing it. It really slowed down the pace of the game.

2. The interminably slow Scrum engage sequence which IMO is leading to the scrum becoming a nightmare of resets and free-kicks/penalties. The new super slow-mo sequence seems to be almost a balance test of which front-row will topple over first whilst trying to hold a bind at arms length against a similarly squirming front-row.

I also mentioned on the English thread about the offside refereeing. He was very clear about where the offside line was even though the line he picked had no recourse to the offside lines mandated by the laws. I have no problem with this he was clear and consistent and this is something players can work to that was until about the 60th minute when he stopped refereeing it and it became a bit of a free-for-all around the ruck.

Also the "offside, stop, No he lifted it " sequence was really quite bizarre and I think confused both sides as well with both sets of players asking the ref WTF?
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by Gwenno »

backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:43 pm One of itojes penalities was where he tackled the scrum half at a lineout and did a rip of the ball as part of the tackle , but got zapped for it. I think navidi did something similar a few mins later and wasn’t pinged - did anyone else notice this ? I thought itoje was not on the ground when he made the rip and so shouldn’t have been penalised , bringing his own count down to just six.

I dislike in the modern game how you can only do one thing before being out of the game, and the speed at which someone is pinged for anything - it’s like the refs looking for a reason to blow the whistle, instead of looking for a reason not to.
Itoje may not have been on the ground, but was Hardy?
I have seen situations where the ref has called ‘tackler release’ where the ball is ripped, and not penalised, after the shout, but shouldn’t it be pinged? I assumed that once the tackle has been defined, either through the ref calling it, or because it is obvious, the tackler can only contest the ball after rleasing the tackled player. It’s hard to see how a rip after tackle is called complies with these laws, unless you can release your hand and get them back on the ball extremely quickly.
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Re: 6 Nations R3 - Wales vs England

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Hawk97 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:13 am
Da iawn diolch wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:21 pm If anyone rewatches the match, there's a fantastic counterpoint to the slew of red cards and moronic tackling.

At 27min Itoje finds himself as the second man tackling a dipping player. Instead of doing the f**king dumb thing of going for a massive shoulder shot with a tucked arm, he leads with his hands, guides the player to deck and contests the ball.

So refreshing to see a player making a smart decision.
Itoje made a decision that DIDN'T lead to a penalty? Sh!t man....
I thought it was good to highlight some smart play as a bit of a counterpoint.
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