What does vunipola offer?

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IKUR01
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What does vunipola offer?

Post by IKUR01 »

This guy is like a prop playing at 8. Hes slow, not an option at lineout, hardly ever gets turnovers, shit in the wide channels, never passes so is suoer predictable and when was the last time he made a line break! And, he has been this same player since he started. I know you Northern lot love a big number 8 but this guy is a flop.
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Jeff the Bear
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Jeff the Bear »

He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
IKUR01
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by IKUR01 »

Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
A prop would do the same thing though. So hes just a heavy guy that falls forward sometimes after contact? His run stats in this game were deceiving as well. Most of his meters came form the run up he had after catching a long kick. I'd love to see his stats post contact meters. Poor no doubt.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by DragsterDriver »

He plays like most Auckland club level props, walks around the pitch and manages three big carries a game. A passenger.


Fücking lightning at the buffet mind.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Jerome Manning »

IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:33 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
A prop would do the same thing though.
Not really. I can't think of many props who were destructive, explosive ball runners. The English props in the 2019 semi and that's about it.
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Hawk97
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Hawk97 »

Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
This.

On form, he always commanded a 3 man tackle and still made yards. He's miles off that right now.

It should be Simmonds or Dombrandt who are in excellent form.
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Hawk97
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Hawk97 »

IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:33 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
A prop would do the same thing though. So hes just a heavy guy that falls forward sometimes after contact? His run stats in this game were deceiving as well. Most of his meters came form the run up he had after catching a long kick. I'd love to see his stats post contact meters. Poor no doubt.
Do you mean now or when he was at his best? At his best a typical day would be something like 10 carries for an average of about 3-6m in contact (more with space), plus he'd be up there in the tackle count, and his offloads per game would be good too. He was eveything you want an 8 to be.

Now he's trash, yeah
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by IKUR01 »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:47 am
IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:33 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
A prop would do the same thing though.
Not really. I can't think of many props who were destructive, explosive ball runners. The English props in the 2019 semi and that's about it.

My point being any fatso with some go in him can do the job that vunipola does. All anyone ever talks about is his ability to carry x amount of players over the gainline. If that is his only attribute on the field he should be doing it at least 15 times a game. What other 8 gets the privileged ride he gets with literally 1 string to his bow. cleaning rucks, tackling, turnovers, lineouts, kick offs, handling, leadership etc etc he brings nothing to the table
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sorCrer
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by sorCrer »

Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
I'm pretty sure I saw him brought down by the Kieran Hardy yesterday albeit a good low tackle.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by IKUR01 »

Hawk97 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:00 am
IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:33 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
A prop would do the same thing though. So hes just a heavy guy that falls forward sometimes after contact? His run stats in this game were deceiving as well. Most of his meters came form the run up he had after catching a long kick. I'd love to see his stats post contact meters. Poor no doubt.
Do you mean now or when he was at his best? At his best a typical day would be something like 10 carries for an average of about 3-6m in contact (more with space), plus he'd be up there in the tackle count, and his offloads per game would be good too. He was eveything you want an 8 to be.

Now he's trash, yeah
No he was never consistently those things. hes a passenger mate. He is bugger all i would want in an 8. Lineout option, kickoffs, turnovers, tackle count (never high as you say), ruck work (lazy as), wide channel running. He was good at being a bulldozer but not good enough that it meant he didnt really need the other attributes.
Vermuelen plays a bulldozer but also has a hell of a lot more to offer around te park as well. And the more favoured athletic number 8s do a bit of everything.
I honestly think his brother would do a better job at 8 for England right now.
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Hawk97 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:56 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
This.

On form, he always commanded a 3 man tackle and still made yards. He's miles off that right now.

It should be Simmonds or Dombrandt who are in excellent form.
This.

There were a few occasions yesterday where he was felled by a simple one-on-one tackle. If that's happening regularly, he's basically an empty shirt.
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Hawk97
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Hawk97 »

IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:07 am
Hawk97 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:00 am
IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:33 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
A prop would do the same thing though. So hes just a heavy guy that falls forward sometimes after contact? His run stats in this game were deceiving as well. Most of his meters came form the run up he had after catching a long kick. I'd love to see his stats post contact meters. Poor no doubt.
Do you mean now or when he was at his best? At his best a typical day would be something like 10 carries for an average of about 3-6m in contact (more with space), plus he'd be up there in the tackle count, and his offloads per game would be good too. He was eveything you want an 8 to be.

Now he's trash, yeah
No he was never consistently those things. hes a passenger mate. He is bugger all i would want in an 8. Lineout option, kickoffs, turnovers, tackle count (never high as you say), ruck work (lazy as), wide channel running. He was good at being a bulldozer but not good enough that it meant he didnt really need the other attributes.
Vermuelen plays a bulldozer but also has a hell of a lot more to offer around te park as well. And the more favoured athletic number 8s do a bit of everything.
I honestly think his brother would do a better job at 8 for England right now.
Alright you're just on a troll, cool. He was awesome, now he isn't.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by ovalball »

Hawk97 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:16 pm
IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:07 am
Hawk97 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:00 am
IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:33 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
A prop would do the same thing though. So hes just a heavy guy that falls forward sometimes after contact? His run stats in this game were deceiving as well. Most of his meters came form the run up he had after catching a long kick. I'd love to see his stats post contact meters. Poor no doubt.
Do you mean now or when he was at his best? At his best a typical day would be something like 10 carries for an average of about 3-6m in contact (more with space), plus he'd be up there in the tackle count, and his offloads per game would be good too. He was eveything you want an 8 to be.

Now he's trash, yeah
No he was never consistently those things. hes a passenger mate. He is bugger all i would want in an 8. Lineout option, kickoffs, turnovers, tackle count (never high as you say), ruck work (lazy as), wide channel running. He was good at being a bulldozer but not good enough that it meant he didnt really need the other attributes.
Vermuelen plays a bulldozer but also has a hell of a lot more to offer around te park as well. And the more favoured athletic number 8s do a bit of everything.
I honestly think his brother would do a better job at 8 for England right now.
Alright you're just on a troll, cool. He was awesome, now he isn't.
There was a time when he was the player every side would have wanted in their team - a real point of difference. That hasn't been the case for a long time - he's more of a liability now.

Eddie won't drop him though.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by blindcider »

By his own admission hes a player that needs regular game time to get up to form and fitness. Hes a devastating ball carrier when right but for whatever reason we havent seen that for a couple of years
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by CrazyIslander »

Billy is a great player. England destroyed NZ last time they played. The fact is, it's a difficult thing to gain metres post contact. Top tier 1 teams can defend the gain line with ease. If you can't make post contact metres then you're in for a long day of phases going from one side to the other without gaining much metres.

So you need a guy like Billy who can nudge you forward or the very least draw an extra defender and extract extra effort from them. 1 metre gained inside is worth 10 on the outside. It's a sling shot effect.
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Da iawn diolch »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm Billy is a great player. England destroyed NZ last time they played. The fact is, it's a difficult thing to gain metres post contact. Top tier 1 teams can defend the gain line with ease. If you can't make post contact metres then you're in for a long day of phases going from one side to the other without gaining much metres.

So you need a guy like Billy who can nudge you forward or the very least draw an extra defender and extract extra effort from them. 1 metre gained inside is worth 10 on the outside. It's a sling shot effect.
I can only assume you haven't watched much of him in the past two years?
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Crash_12 »

Jeff the Bear wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:56 am He's been in poor form, but was a lot better this game I thought. In theory, he brings elite level physicality in tight channels. There's not many forwards out there who can commit 3 defenders to take him down and still make it over that gainline. He managed to do that a few times today.
Navidi +1 levelled him every time. And he looked gassed by 50 mins.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Gynormus »

IKUR01 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:51 am This guy is like a prop playing at 8. Hes slow, not an option at lineout, hardly ever gets turnovers, shit in the wide channels, never passes so is suoer predictable and when was the last time he made a line break! And, he has been this same player since he started. I know you Northern lot love a big number 8 but this guy is a flop.
Neither Vunipola have been in any form which could be called International Level. Mako is being nailed in the scrum & Billy is pretty shite! Why Eddie stuck with a Div 1 players who have had limited game time. As with Sarries recruitment how & why? Bar Itoje who has been given a role of being a bigger pain in the arse & offside most lineouts & rucks. Kiwis must be laughing. George looks fatter & LCD shud be starting. Lastly with Faz as an even more petulant prat I hope Eddie sticks to this & falls apart as he does once he has reached his nadir
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by CrazyIslander »

Da iawn diolch wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:15 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm Billy is a great player. England destroyed NZ last time they played. The fact is, it's a difficult thing to gain metres post contact. Top tier 1 teams can defend the gain line with ease. If you can't make post contact metres then you're in for a long day of phases going from one side to the other without gaining much metres.

So you need a guy like Billy who can nudge you forward or the very least draw an extra defender and extract extra effort from them. 1 metre gained inside is worth 10 on the outside. It's a sling shot effect.
I can only assume you haven't watched much of him in the past two years?
Most players only play at their full potential 20-30% of the time. The rest of the time they fall back of playing a role for the team. Sure, he hasn't made the metres of his best days but he's important as a big body in contact. That allows the flankers more freedom to choose when to get involved. Without a certain number of big bodies in tight, the whole forward pack will gradually be dominated.

He didn't play well RWC final but he wasn't the only one. Sure, you can drop him but are you going to apply the same criteria to the next person?
A lot of people say they prefer someone who's quicker around the field. Fine but that has it's disadvantages too. Australia had three lightweight backrows for a long period. There was no go forward. Some people want the best of both world - strong carrier and high work rate = Kieran Read. Good luck going back in time and convince him to play for England.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Bobcock »

Was decidedly average against Ealing when they played recently.

Caused us no bother at all.

I wouldn't even take him on a Lions Tour, Stander at 8 with Faletau at 6.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by backrow »

I’d like to see dombrandt in an England shirt for a go - billy v seems to be a busted flush now and needs putting out to pasture along with his brother, Daly , Farrell , Wilson and Young’s
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Hawk97 »

Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:02 pm Was decidedly average against Ealing when they played recently.

Caused us no bother at all.

I wouldn't even take him on a Lions Tour, Stander at 8 with Faletau at 6.
He shouldn't.

Curry, Underhill, Watson, Navidi, Faletau, Stander, Tipuric. That's mine.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Bobcock »

That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Bobcock »

backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:08 pm I’d like to see dombrandt in an England shirt for a go - billy v seems to be a busted flush now and needs putting out to pasture along with his brother, Daly , Farrell , Wilson and Young’s
If I was picking an England team without Billy I'd choose Nathan Hughes.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by backrow »

Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:48 pm That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
Faletau is the guy I mis-identified that time yep ?
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by backrow »

Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:49 pm
backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:08 pm I’d like to see dombrandt in an England shirt for a go - billy v seems to be a busted flush now and needs putting out to pasture along with his brother, Daly , Farrell , Wilson and Young’s
If I was picking an England team without Billy I'd choose Nathan Hughes.
That because you is welsh innit and am enjoying our current malaise
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by backrow »

Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:49 pm
backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:08 pm I’d like to see dombrandt in an England shirt for a go - billy v seems to be a busted flush now and needs putting out to pasture along with his brother, Daly , Farrell , Wilson and Young’s
If I was picking an England team without Billy I'd choose Nathan Hughes.
That because you is welsh innit and am enjoying our current malaise
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Bobcock »

backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm
Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:48 pm That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
Faletau is the guy I mis-identified that time yep ?
Yes, you said it was Faletau when in fact it was Billy who spends a lot of time in Cardiff what with him being more Welsh than anything else in his own mind.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Bobcock »

backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:51 pm
Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:49 pm
backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:08 pm I’d like to see dombrandt in an England shirt for a go - billy v seems to be a busted flush now and needs putting out to pasture along with his brother, Daly , Farrell , Wilson and Young’s
If I was picking an England team without Billy I'd choose Nathan Hughes.
That because you is welsh innit and am enjoying our current malaise
Yes, I wasn't picking a team to win
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Bobcock »

backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm
Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:48 pm That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
Faletau is the guy I mis-identified that time yep ?
Long time since we have caught up, how are you and the lovely ladies in your life?
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by backrow »

Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:33 pm
backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm
Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:48 pm That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
Faletau is the guy I mis-identified that time yep ?
Long time since we have caught up, how are you and the lovely ladies in your life?
They all well and I’m still not divorced :thumbup:
Same for you all I hope ?
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by backrow »

Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:32 pm
backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm
Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:48 pm That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
Faletau is the guy I mis-identified that time yep ?
Yes, you said it was Faletau when in fact it was Billy who spends a lot of time in Cardiff what with him being more Welsh than anything else in his own mind.
Yeah, I’m shit with names Steve
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Bobcock »

backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:36 pm
Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:33 pm
backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm
Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:48 pm That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
Faletau is the guy I mis-identified that time yep ?
Long time since we have caught up, how are you and the lovely ladies in your life?
They all well and I’m still not divorced :thumbup:
Same for you all I hope ?
we are all good
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Hawk97 »

Bobcock wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:48 pm That's close, but I wouldn't take Underhill as a six, I'd take Ritchie or Lawes to fill that slot.
Unders has to go against SA. He's a missile behind the gain line, and that's where SA want to win. Take him as a prop if you need to :lol:
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Da iawn diolch »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:47 pm
Da iawn diolch wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:15 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm Billy is a great player. England destroyed NZ last time they played. The fact is, it's a difficult thing to gain metres post contact. Top tier 1 teams can defend the gain line with ease. If you can't make post contact metres then you're in for a long day of phases going from one side to the other without gaining much metres.

So you need a guy like Billy who can nudge you forward or the very least draw an extra defender and extract extra effort from them. 1 metre gained inside is worth 10 on the outside. It's a sling shot effect.
I can only assume you haven't watched much of him in the past two years?
Most players only play at their full potential 20-30% of the time. The rest of the time they fall back of playing a role for the team. Sure, he hasn't made the metres of his best days but he's important as a big body in contact. That allows the flankers more freedom to choose when to get involved. Without a certain number of big bodies in tight, the whole forward pack will gradually be dominated.

He didn't play well RWC final but he wasn't the only one. Sure, you can drop him but are you going to apply the same criteria to the next person?
A lot of people say they prefer someone who's quicker around the field. Fine but that has it's disadvantages too. Australia had three lightweight backrows for a long period. There was no go forward. Some people want the best of both world - strong carrier and high work rate = Kieran Read. Good luck going back in time and convince him to play for England.
The issue is that when Billy isn't at 100%, he's really ineffective.

He contributes so little else around the park that without his massive carrying game, he's better off being benched for someone who can bring a more rounded game.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Da iawn diolch »

backrow wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:08 pm I’d like to see dombrandt in an England shirt for a go - billy v seems to be a busted flush now and needs putting out to pasture along with his brother, Daly , Farrell , Wilson and Young’s
Dombrandt doesn't really fit with the horrible, attritional gameplan that Eddie wants to play.

A fit Billy and Manu makes the England gameplan much more effective. England are still trying to play the same way without their two key weapons.
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by CrazyIslander »

Da iawn diolch wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:11 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:47 pm
Da iawn diolch wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:15 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm Billy is a great player. England destroyed NZ last time they played. The fact is, it's a difficult thing to gain metres post contact. Top tier 1 teams can defend the gain line with ease. If you can't make post contact metres then you're in for a long day of phases going from one side to the other without gaining much metres.

So you need a guy like Billy who can nudge you forward or the very least draw an extra defender and extract extra effort from them. 1 metre gained inside is worth 10 on the outside. It's a sling shot effect.
I can only assume you haven't watched much of him in the past two years?
Most players only play at their full potential 20-30% of the time. The rest of the time they fall back of playing a role for the team. Sure, he hasn't made the metres of his best days but he's important as a big body in contact. That allows the flankers more freedom to choose when to get involved. Without a certain number of big bodies in tight, the whole forward pack will gradually be dominated.

He didn't play well RWC final but he wasn't the only one. Sure, you can drop him but are you going to apply the same criteria to the next person?
A lot of people say they prefer someone who's quicker around the field. Fine but that has it's disadvantages too. Australia had three lightweight backrows for a long period. There was no go forward. Some people want the best of both world - strong carrier and high work rate = Kieran Read. Good luck going back in time and convince him to play for England.
The issue is that when Billy isn't at 100%, he's really ineffective.

He contributes so little else around the park that without his massive carrying game, he's better off being benched for someone who can bring a more rounded game.
Like I said, Underhill, Curry, Itoje play around the field. Do be you want a fourth player of the same ilk? Or would you trade that for a bid of bulk - someone who can draw multiple defenders and make post contact yards in tight.
Remember you're planning to play the top teams where guys train 7 days a weak to smash you. There will be no easy yards. None of the other backrowers can make those yards.

The perfect number 8 is a fairytale - strong carrier that plays around the field. The top guys do it for a short period. Keiran Read done it for the longest. But mostly they're just playing a role.
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Da iawn diolch »

CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:27 pm
Da iawn diolch wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:11 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:47 pm
Da iawn diolch wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:15 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm Billy is a great player. England destroyed NZ last time they played. The fact is, it's a difficult thing to gain metres post contact. Top tier 1 teams can defend the gain line with ease. If you can't make post contact metres then you're in for a long day of phases going from one side to the other without gaining much metres.

So you need a guy like Billy who can nudge you forward or the very least draw an extra defender and extract extra effort from them. 1 metre gained inside is worth 10 on the outside. It's a sling shot effect.
I can only assume you haven't watched much of him in the past two years?
Most players only play at their full potential 20-30% of the time. The rest of the time they fall back of playing a role for the team. Sure, he hasn't made the metres of his best days but he's important as a big body in contact. That allows the flankers more freedom to choose when to get involved. Without a certain number of big bodies in tight, the whole forward pack will gradually be dominated.

He didn't play well RWC final but he wasn't the only one. Sure, you can drop him but are you going to apply the same criteria to the next person?
A lot of people say they prefer someone who's quicker around the field. Fine but that has it's disadvantages too. Australia had three lightweight backrows for a long period. There was no go forward. Some people want the best of both world - strong carrier and high work rate = Kieran Read. Good luck going back in time and convince him to play for England.
The issue is that when Billy isn't at 100%, he's really ineffective.

He contributes so little else around the park that without his massive carrying game, he's better off being benched for someone who can bring a more rounded game.
Like I said, Underhill, Curry, Itoje play around the field. Do be you want a fourth player of the same ilk? Or would you trade that for a bid of bulk - someone who can draw multiple defenders and make post contact yards in tight.
Remember you're planning to play the top teams where guys train 7 days a weak to smash you. There will be no easy yards. None of the other backrowers can make those yards.

The perfect number 8 is a fairytale - strong carrier that plays around the field. The top guys do it for a short period. Keiran Read done it for the longest. But mostly they're just playing a role.
You seem to be debating a different point.

At his best, Billy was a complete nightmare to defend. Right now, he's frequently getting tackled by a single defender.

If he's not doing what he's good at, and not contributing much else around the park, what does Vunipola offer?
Flyin Ryan
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Da iawn diolch wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:11 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:47 pm
Da iawn diolch wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:15 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm Billy is a great player. England destroyed NZ last time they played. The fact is, it's a difficult thing to gain metres post contact. Top tier 1 teams can defend the gain line with ease. If you can't make post contact metres then you're in for a long day of phases going from one side to the other without gaining much metres.

So you need a guy like Billy who can nudge you forward or the very least draw an extra defender and extract extra effort from them. 1 metre gained inside is worth 10 on the outside. It's a sling shot effect.
I can only assume you haven't watched much of him in the past two years?
Most players only play at their full potential 20-30% of the time. The rest of the time they fall back of playing a role for the team. Sure, he hasn't made the metres of his best days but he's important as a big body in contact. That allows the flankers more freedom to choose when to get involved. Without a certain number of big bodies in tight, the whole forward pack will gradually be dominated.

He didn't play well RWC final but he wasn't the only one. Sure, you can drop him but are you going to apply the same criteria to the next person?
A lot of people say they prefer someone who's quicker around the field. Fine but that has it's disadvantages too. Australia had three lightweight backrows for a long period. There was no go forward. Some people want the best of both world - strong carrier and high work rate = Kieran Read. Good luck going back in time and convince him to play for England.
The issue is that when Billy isn't at 100%, he's really ineffective.

He contributes so little else around the park that without his massive carrying game, he's better off being benched for someone who can bring a more rounded game.
Sounds like a guy that should come in when everyone else is tired and blast away as a 20-minute-long substitute.
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: What does vunipola offer?

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Ah, is this IKUR01's latest attempt at expressing his opinions after his "Why is AWJ so shit?" gambit? It took him four years to re-surface after that one blew up in his face! :D
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