Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

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grievous
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by grievous »

shanky wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:56 am Bit of both, apparently.

He was a star centre at school. Parramatta busted him by making him bosh it up all the time. Heaps of injuries.

Shame really, because there was a good athlete hidden in there

Here’s a vid of his potential back in the day

https://youtu.be/NF7HU5dG0NI
You just know that the Storm will mould him into a champion, Tahs have no idea as useless as he may have been. Where did all that potential go? Too many laps at Daceyville.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by towny »

I can think of one league player that became a top centre, and he was a freakshow.

Has their been a convert that went well that wasn’t a league superstar?
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

Ngane Laumape wasn't a superstar league player but did well enough in Rugby.
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shanky
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by shanky »

I don’t buy into this us v them thing - in relation to talent or genetics
Most of these lads play both codes growing up

Oddly enough, the more talented they are, the more likely they are. Leagues clubs pay school fees at sT Tarquins School for Boys
Likewise, plenty of Union rugby royalty gets tempted by the glamour


Penrith has a famed junior league nursery, but their Union teams can barely scratch together a single team. That’s not genetics, it’s pathways.

Union has the better pathway, oddly enough, because Colts bridges that U19-U20 gap where league drops the ball a bit, because you’re playing reserve grade or Flagg in front of 20 people in Blacktown whereas Union Colts, is on Saturday afternoon in a stadium

IMHO, a small amount of money and effort, and we’d improve things no end
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by towny »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:05 pm Ngane Laumape wasn't a superstar league player but did well enough in Rugby.
Didn't take long to shoot me down. I hadn't realised he'd come from league. :thumbup:
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by towny »

shanky wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:12 pm I don’t buy into this us v them thing - in relation to talent or genetics
Most of these lads play both codes growing up

Oddly enough, the more talented they are, the more likely they are. Leagues clubs pay school fees at sT Tarquins School for Boys
Likewise, plenty of Union rugby royalty gets tempted by the glamour


Penrith has a famed junior league nursery, but their Union teams can barely scratch together a single team. That’s not genetics, it’s pathways.

Union has the better pathway, oddly enough, because Colts bridges that U19-U20 gap where league drops the ball a bit, because you’re playing reserve grade or Flagg in front of 20 people in Blacktown whereas Union Colts, is on Saturday afternoon in a stadium

IMHO, a small amount of money and effort, and we’d improve things no end
I don't disagree. My point wasn't that league players are poop - far from it. I just don't think most players that comes to rugby is going to be any good, because if they are they'd be on too much coin and loving life.

I can't recall a superstar league player that switched rugby and was pants.

But on that subject, it takes a while to get them up to speed, and because the Australian ones are on top coin, they end up being paid 5 years superstar wages for 2-3 years of star performances. You know what I mean.

Of the tens of millions that's been paid to league converts in the last 20 years, I can't help but dream of what might have been done had that money gone into development of rugby playing kids. Just one example, at the time when Tuqiri, Sailor, Rogers, et al were being signed by RA to lose rugby competitions, there was at most, a single development officer north of Brisbane. There was no money for that kind of stuff.
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shanky
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by shanky »

I take your point. :thumbup:

The Rogers era though was pure O’Neill.
He made the decision to flex on League, to be the big man. It worked for 5 minutes and it has cost us dearly since. He’s a prick, of the grandstanding variety, notwithstanding his effort in ‘putting us on the map’

Since then, our league convert mistakes have been more well-meaning
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Zakar »

towny wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:56 am I can think of one league player that became a top centre, and he was a freakshow.

Has their been a convert that went well that wasn’t a league superstar?
Luther Burrell?
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by towny »

Zakar wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:10 pm
towny wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:56 am I can think of one league player that became a top centre, and he was a freakshow.

Has their been a convert that went well that wasn’t a league superstar?
Luther Burrell?
I don't doubt there is any shortage of rugby players that went to league and dominated.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by The Optimist »

Always thought Izzy was world class... not his religious views. What could have been if he hadn't been indoctrinated into a cult. :roll:
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by The Optimist »

Samu Kerevi to make is Aussie 7s debut in the Oceania 7s. :thumbup:

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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by The Optimist »

Manasa Mataele is off to the Western Force next year. A good get.
:o :thumbup: Anyone else hear this? Would be great news.
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Ellafan
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Ellafan »

shanky wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:12 pm I don’t buy into this us v them thing - in relation to talent or genetics
Most of these lads play both codes growing up

Oddly enough, the more talented they are, the more likely they are. Leagues clubs pay school fees at sT Tarquins School for Boys
Likewise, plenty of Union rugby royalty gets tempted by the glamour


Penrith has a famed junior league nursery, but their Union teams can barely scratch together a single team. That’s not genetics, it’s pathways.

Union has the better pathway, oddly enough, because Colts bridges that U19-U20 gap where league drops the ball a bit, because you’re playing reserve grade or Flagg in front of 20 people in Blacktown whereas Union Colts, is on Saturday afternoon in a stadium

IMHO, a small amount of money and effort, and we’d improve things no end
Who's that kid who got a rugby scholarship to, I think Joeys, whose loig club gave him one of those (as Zakar will say, not enforceable by them) training contracts - and then banned him from playing rugby for the school?

I suppose if the headmaster (rector?) sent his parents a letter pointing out it was the policy of the school that all students were required to undertake a sport, he could have taken up tennis or something. Although I'm not sure they have that at Joeys.
Last edited by Ellafan on Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Magpie26 »

towny wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:14 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:05 pm Ngane Laumape wasn't a superstar league player but did well enough in Rugby.
Didn't take long to shoot me down. I hadn't realised he'd come from league. :thumbup:
Really a rugby, league, rugby journey.
I can't recall a superstar league player that switched rugby and was pants.
Benji Marshall x(
grievous
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by grievous »

shanky wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:12 pm I don’t buy into this us v them thing - in relation to talent or genetics
Most of these lads play both codes growing up

Oddly enough, the more talented they are, the more likely they are. Leagues clubs pay school fees at sT Tarquins School for Boys
Likewise, plenty of Union rugby royalty gets tempted by the glamour


Penrith has a famed junior league nursery, but their Union teams can barely scratch together a single team. That’s not genetics, it’s pathways.


Union has the better pathway, oddly enough, because Colts bridges that U19-U20 gap where league drops the ball a bit, because you’re playing reserve grade or Flagg in front of 20 people in Blacktown whereas Union Colts, is on Saturday afternoon in a stadium

IMHO, a small amount of money and effort, and we’d improve things no end
Aren't you across Sydney juniors? Penrith (and Parramatta)juniors featured strongly in junior finals, won u14 but fall away after u16. Talent is there but Penrith RUC is the only light in a dark murky league see, they haven't a chance.
Shute Shield clubs east of Camperdown have recently made it clear they dont want to play these teams or interested in the game existing there.
Penrith are getting a new stadium, Tahs have even given up on playing at Bankwest let alone go to Penrith and sign a few balls.
Kids pick up on this.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by TranceNRG »

Can we please stop all this Mungoball talk x(
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shanky
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by shanky »

@ellflafan. Yes. Joseph Sualli is his name.

Grievy. Yes, I was there. With Two Blues especially, it’s noticeable how they steadily fall away as they get older.

Penrith is the most glaring example. I was at a Colts game there. Plenty of people attending, singing, music etc

On the sidelines there were literally dozens of fit young men in Panthers jumpers, watching their mates (the ones who presumably) couldn’t also get Panthers jumpers) getting flogged by the skinny whitebreads from the east

Truly shocking encapsulation of Sydney junior footy’s problem right there.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Magpie26 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:24 am
towny wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:14 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:05 pm Ngane Laumape wasn't a superstar league player but did well enough in Rugby.
Didn't take long to shoot me down. I hadn't realised he'd come from league. :thumbup:
Really a rugby, league, rugby journey.
I can't recall a superstar league player that switched rugby and was pants.
Benji Marshall x(
Timanu Tahu has to be the best example of that.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by towny »

Tahu might have gone okay if he was better managed. He had a history of bad hammies but had worked out how to avoid injury, but the Tahs’ medicos knew better and didn’t listen to Tahu’s league docs….. his hammy problems returned. Decent form got him as shot in a test match and Dingo decided to play him at 12 for the first time in his life…. In South Africa.

Hard to think of anyone more set up to fail.

Why would rugby go for ageing league blokes, well past their prime, in the first place?
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by shanky »

towny wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:15 am Tahu might have gone okay if he was better managed. He had a history of bad hammies but had worked out how to avoid injury, but the Tahs’ medicos knew better and didn’t listen to Tahu’s league docs….. his hammy problems returned. Decent form got him as shot in a test match and Dingo decided to play him at 12 for the first time in his life…. In South Africa.

Hard to think of anyone more set up to fail.

Why would rugby go for ageing league blokes, well past their prime, in the first place?
This is true

The Tahs around that time were renowned for soft tissue injuries. As we all know, these injuries arise from poor conditioning and treatment

Someone I know was talking to the ARU chief doctor who had studied stats and noticed how bad it was. He brought it up with iirc
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by grievous »

towny wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:15 am Tahu might have gone okay if he was better managed. He had a history of bad hammies but had worked out how to avoid injury, but the Tahs’ medicos knew better and didn’t listen to Tahu’s league docs….. his hammy problems returned. Decent form got him as shot in a test match and Dingo decided to play him at 12 for the first time in his life…. In South Africa.

Hard to think of anyone more set up to fail.

Why would rugby go for ageing league blokes, well past their prime, in the first place?
indeed
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/fergus ... 581we.html
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Well, Swinton is off the hook. And he's in the squad. I said I'd have a laugh at the howls of protest if he got selected and I will, because all this was moderately obvious. At least a good possibility. Because Swinton is a gun, he's versatile and with a proven ability to step up big time and he's aggro as f-ck. A perfect blindside.

That said Im not laughing yet. In fact I'm very tempted to say I think the better bench option is Naisarani. Valetini is clearly the frontrunner for the 6 jersey.

The big difference between them is neither Isi nor Valetini have a record of stepping up on the big stage. Swinton does. Minus the red card.

I think the best selection would be Valetini at 6, Wilson at 8 and Naisarani on the bench covering both positions. Swinton in the squad as a future option and injury backup. They're all big boshers, all good line-out jumpers. None are undersized or out of position, so I'm not crying myself to sleep whatever happens. My pick is Valetini, Wilson and Naisarani on the bench. But II have a feeling Swinton is in the mix.

We're in a good place (at long last) with our backrow instead of relying on (admittedly outstanding) short arse opensides covering 3 positions, so I'm happy whatever happens.
Last edited by Mog The Almighty on Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ellafan
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Ellafan »

grievous wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:05 pm
towny wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:15 am Tahu might have gone okay if he was better managed. He had a history of bad hammies but had worked out how to avoid injury, but the Tahs’ medicos knew better and didn’t listen to Tahu’s league docs….. his hammy problems returned. Decent form got him as shot in a test match and Dingo decided to play him at 12 for the first time in his life…. In South Africa.

Hard to think of anyone more set up to fail.

Why would rugby go for ageing league blokes, well past their prime, in the first place?
indeed
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/fergus ... 581we.html
... defensive deficiencies became his downfall.

Ferguson’s axing came after back-to-back losses to Manly and Rabbitohs, where the Eels’ right edge defence was called into question.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by mightyreds »

My squad for the 1st Test vs France has just landed on my desk, posted by myself to myself at the Home Office:
1. Slipper (B)
2. Paenga-Amosa (QR)
3. Tupou (QR)
4. Salakaia-Loto (QR)
5. Timani (WF)
6. Valetini (B)
7. Hooper (c.)
8. Wilson (QR)
9. White (B)
10. Lolesio (B)
11. Koroibete (MR)
12. Paisami (QR)
13. Ikitau (B)
14. Wright (B)
15. Banks (B)


________________________________________________________________________________________
BENCH: Kaitu'u(WF) Bell(NSW) Faumasili'i(MR) Philip(MR) McReight(QR) McDermott(QR) O'Connor(QR)
Daugunu(QR)

NB First choice 13 - Perese - unavailable due to injury.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Farva »

Not bad.
I’d pick Kaitu’u to start due to better line outs, and that team is weak in the line out. BPA can come on late and add some pain around the ground and bolster the scrum.
I’d drop LSL to the bench and start Philip. I don’t think either LSL or Tinani call the line out.
I’d also start JOC and bring Lolesio off the bench. Lolesio was still a little rattled at super level. I don’t want to know what happens when the ABs pressure him. JOC is about the coolest character in the team.
Oh and Faumisili is one for the future but I don’t think he is test level yet. AAA to be the 18th man.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Olo »

Surely Timani will not start and most likely will not be near the 23?

Hes OK but has not, and never will, set the world on fire. Maybe off the bench if Rennie does not want to play one of the young blokes. No idea why Hosea and Rodda are not in this squad.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Farva »

Olo wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:31 am Surely Timani will not start and most likely will not be near the 23?

Hes OK but has not, and never will, set the world on fire. Maybe off the bench if Rennie does not want to play one of the young blokes. No idea why Hosea and Rodda are not in this squad.
Hosea not getting picked is disappointing.
I’d start Timani. He is much better than the rest. Neville is injured. Todd’s isn’t in Australia and I do t want to airlift someone in. Swain is an up and comer but not as good as Timani.
Timani is a great player and will be there for another year or two, then we have some you g guys coming through.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Olo »

Surely we start LSL and Philip?
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Slim 293 »

Olo wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:51 am Surely we start LSL and Philip?
:nod:

Without Neville, easily the best available locking combo we have in the squad...
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Olo wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:31 am Surely Timani will not start and most likely will not be near the 23?

Hes OK but has not, and never will, set the world on fire. Maybe off the bench if Rennie does not want to play one of the young blokes. No idea why Hosea and Rodda are not in this squad.
I'd start Timani and Phillip.

My biggest problem with Timani is his age.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Olo »

Mate, Timani is big and in very good nick but he doesn’t run through and over people as a bloke his size should.
By all accounts his set piece is solid but why isn’t he just smashing blokes in contact? Same thing when he last played test rugby.
Starting Timani and Philip means you have LSL on the pine covering lock and 6, which is handy. LSL is more dominant than Timani in contact by a good measure. I’m sure we will see Rodda for the RC.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Meh. I'm not going to cry either way. I don't think any of them are real stand-outs except maybe Phillip, but I haven't seen him play for a while.

In an ideal world we should be choosing between Arnold, Rodda, Skelton and Phillip.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by towny »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:24 am Meh. I'm not going to cry either way. I don't think any of them are real stand-outs except maybe Phillip, but I haven't seen him play for a while.

In an ideal world we should be choosing between Arnold, Rodda, Skelton and Phillip.
LSL has looked very good against the kiwi teams.
Rodda doesn’t offer as much as LSL imo. I remember some analysis of games a couple of years ago and his ruck work was an issue.
Timani is solid af but isn’t a great carrier.
Philip looks the goods.
Arnold is excellent.
Skelton might be very interesting, but you’d want a couple of very good jumpers in the backrow.
Neville looked great this year.
Hosea looks like one for the future.
Swain shows promise.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Mog The Almighty »

towny wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:25 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:24 am Meh. I'm not going to cry either way. I don't think any of them are real stand-outs except maybe Phillip, but I haven't seen him play for a while.

In an ideal world we should be choosing between Arnold, Rodda, Skelton and Phillip.
LSL has looked very good against the kiwi teams.
Rodda doesn’t offer as much as LSL imo. I remember some analysis of games a couple of years ago and his ruck work was an issue.
Timani is solid af but isn’t a great carrier.
Philip looks the goods.
Arnold is excellent.
Skelton might be very interesting, but you’d want a couple of very good jumpers in the backrow.
Neville looked great this year.
Hosea looks like one for the future.
Swain shows promise.
For the first time in what seems like decades, this is not a problem. Suddenly we have real blindsides that could slot in at lock in a pinch and big, tall, jumping 8s.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by towny »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:01 pm
towny wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:25 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:24 am Meh. I'm not going to cry either way. I don't think any of them are real stand-outs except maybe Phillip, but I haven't seen him play for a while.

In an ideal world we should be choosing between Arnold, Rodda, Skelton and Phillip.
LSL has looked very good against the kiwi teams.
Rodda doesn’t offer as much as LSL imo. I remember some analysis of games a couple of years ago and his ruck work was an issue.
Timani is solid af but isn’t a great carrier.
Philip looks the goods.
Arnold is excellent.
Skelton might be very interesting, but you’d want a couple of very good jumpers in the backrow.
Neville looked great this year.
Hosea looks like one for the future.
Swain shows promise.
For the first time in what seems like decades, this is not a problem. Suddenly we have real blindsides that could slot in at lock in a pinch and big, tall, jumping 8s.
Yep. Life is good.
Get Latu back and get Uelese to a club where he can develop and the pack is almost sorted.

What we really need is a couple of these talented kids to go on and become world class players. Good isn’t enough. The top Wallaby teams had a few ‘greats’. At present I would say we have Hooper at that level, but guys like Wilson, Tupou, Valetini, Bell and LSL have the potential to join him, and I think it’s essential that a couple of them do.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by wamberal »

towny wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:56 pm
Yep. Life is good.
Get Latu back and get Uelese to a club where he can develop and the pack is almost sorted.

What we really need is a couple of these talented kids to go on and become world class players. Good isn’t enough. The top Wallaby teams had a few ‘greats’. At present I would say we have Hooper at that level, but guys like Wilson, Tupou, Valetini, Bell and LSL have the potential to join him, and I think it’s essential that a couple of them do.
Hooper world class? If that means he would make a World 23, sorry, I doubt it.

We are developing the bones of a very competitive forward pack, but we do need a fair bit more depth. There will be injuries, for sure. That's when we will really be tested.

Now for the backs. Some talent, none of it "world class", although I reckon Vunivalu could be anything. So could Petaia of course.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Zakar »

wamberal wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:26 pm
towny wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:56 pm
Yep. Life is good.
Get Latu back and get Uelese to a club where he can develop and the pack is almost sorted.

What we really need is a couple of these talented kids to go on and become world class players. Good isn’t enough. The top Wallaby teams had a few ‘greats’. At present I would say we have Hooper at that level, but guys like Wilson, Tupou, Valetini, Bell and LSL have the potential to join him, and I think it’s essential that a couple of them do.
Hooper world class? If that means he would make a World 23, sorry, I doubt it.

We are developing the bones of a very competitive forward pack, but we do need a fair bit more depth. There will be injuries, for sure. That's when we will really be tested.

Now for the backs. Some talent, none of it "world class", although I reckon Vunivalu could be anything. So could Petaia of course.
I think world class means 'in the discussion' as opposed to automatic shoe in world xv players (I'm not sure there are many of those anyway)

I think right now, the best 7s would be a discussion between Curry, Cane, Watson, Hooper and Kolisi. A few others like Underhill and Papalii probably bolters in the discussion. Hard the gauge the French and Argies as they don't play open/blind.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by wamberal »

We need to have a few players who are genuinely world class if we are any hope of winning the big prizes. Not just "in the discussion".

My picks would be: Tupou, Bell, Rodha, Petaia, Vunivalu.
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Zakar »

wamberal wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:28 am We need to have a few players who are genuinely world class if we are any hope of winning the big prizes. Not just "in the discussion".

My picks would be: Tupou, Bell, Rodha, Petaia, Vunivalu.
What does 'genuinely world class' mean in your mind?

Tupou is a shoe in for a world 23 now, only question is 3 or 18.

Bell is quite a way away. I doubt Rodda is ever even part of the conversation. Petaia and Vunivalu could be anything, but both very raw. I think Korobiete is genuinely world class currently.
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Olo
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Re: Wallabies 2021 OFFICIAL thread

Post by Olo »

Paisami has the potential to become a world class 12 over time.
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