The Derek Chauvin trial

All things Rugby
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

msp. wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:56 pm The defense are putting up a reasonable argument. Getting the prosecution witnesses to admit that from the angle of the bodycam footage that the knee on on the top of the back not the neck, showing footage of George Floyd saying that he cannot breath before Derek Chauvin became involved. Getting the medic who diagnosed asphyxiation as his cause of death, that that could be caused by drugs, (that were shown to be in his system). Whilst I may think it is clear had the police not turned up that Floyd would of survived the day. All that is needed to get a not guilty vote is reasonable doubt . All hell would break loose if it occurs.
The doctor who treated Floyd at the hospital and diagnosed cause of death would only have been able to rule drugs in or out with further examination. That however is not his job. Other doctors who did conduct further examinations have testified and have said drugs played no part in floyds death whatsover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svXX_hec7vU

No effect from Fentanyl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lJ_nWQhJPk
User avatar
fonzeee
Posts: 4597
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:58 pm
Mr Mike wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 pm Understand the passion and sentiment but important to note that the prosecution isn’t suggesting that “ALL HIS WEIGHT IS FORCED DOWN ON THAT KNEE”. They use “most” or “mostly” because part of the medical case is that the right knee also compressed Floyd’s side and compromised his ability to expand his lungs, aggravating the impact of the restraint.
People should also remember the other knee was on George Floyds back. Thus also inhibiting his ability to breathe.
It doesn't have quite the shock factor of a knee on the back of the neck, but it's quite reasonable to believe that this was actually what killed him.

IIRC BlackMac was saying this was specifically forbidden in UK policing precisely because of the danger of traumatic asphyxiation (edit: don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but I mean "you can't breathe because your chest is compressed") in these circumstances.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

fonzeee wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:58 pm
Mr Mike wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 pm Understand the passion and sentiment but important to note that the prosecution isn’t suggesting that “ALL HIS WEIGHT IS FORCED DOWN ON THAT KNEE”. They use “most” or “mostly” because part of the medical case is that the right knee also compressed Floyd’s side and compromised his ability to expand his lungs, aggravating the impact of the restraint.
People should also remember the other knee was on George Floyds back. Thus also inhibiting his ability to breathe.
It doesn't have quite the shock factor of a knee on the back of the neck, but it's quite reasonable to believe that this was actually what killed him.

IIRC BlackMac was saying this was specifically forbidden in UK policing precisely because of the danger of traumatic asphyxiation (edit: don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but I mean "you can't breathe because your chest is compressed") in these circumstances.
Dr Tobin on Chauvins right knee placement

https://youtu.be/6HGijfVyfIw?t=148
User avatar
Newsome
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Newsome »

DAC_ wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:59 pm
puku wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm Young man gets pulled over last night in a suburb 10 miles north of downtown Minneapolis for having air fresheners dangling from his rear view mirror (yup, it's not legal :shock: ), found to have an outstanding arrest warrant, gets back in his car drives off and an officer fires his weapon into the car killing him. :( .

Why? Why was it necessarily for the cop to fire his gun? What is even more effed up, is that the guy's girlfriend was in the passenger seat. What runs through this Cop's mind to think, I gotta get this guy before he flees. Deescalation my fücken ass. I'm pissed off.

Of course this precipitates mini riots last night :(
Whilst terrible did you see the video of the cop being murdered at the weekend. Guy took an automatic from his car and shot him in the head. :?
Saw that yesterday. Just beggars belief.

Why are the police in America not trying to get guns banned (for citizens)?
User avatar
jambanja
Posts: 5480
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: The other side of midnight

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by jambanja »

Newsome wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 am
DAC_ wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:59 pm
puku wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm Young man gets pulled over last night in a suburb 10 miles north of downtown Minneapolis for having air fresheners dangling from his rear view mirror (yup, it's not legal :shock: ), found to have an outstanding arrest warrant, gets back in his car drives off and an officer fires his weapon into the car killing him. :( .

Why? Why was it necessarily for the cop to fire his gun? What is even more effed up, is that the guy's girlfriend was in the passenger seat. What runs through this Cop's mind to think, I gotta get this guy before he flees. Deescalation my fücken ass. I'm pissed off.

Of course this precipitates mini riots last night :(
Whilst terrible did you see the video of the cop being murdered at the weekend. Guy took an automatic from his car and shot him in the head. :?
Saw that yesterday. Just beggars belief.

Why are the police in America not trying to get guns banned (for citizens)?
I’d imagine the police would be doing everything possible to get rid of guns but I think you’ll find it’s got nothing to do with them, sadly they just get to deal with the consequences
User avatar
DOB
Posts: 20190
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by DOB »

jambanja wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:25 am
Newsome wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 am Why are the police in America not trying to get guns banned (for citizens)?
I’d imagine the police would be doing everything possible to get rid of guns but I think you’ll find it’s got nothing to do with them, sadly they just get to deal with the consequences
You'd be surprised the proportion of American cops who are very much pro-2nd-Amendment.

What is less surprising is the amount of gun enthusiasts who apply to become police officers.
User avatar
fonzeee
Posts: 4597
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:17 am
jambanja wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:25 am
Newsome wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 am Why are the police in America not trying to get guns banned (for citizens)?
I’d imagine the police would be doing everything possible to get rid of guns but I think you’ll find it’s got nothing to do with them, sadly they just get to deal with the consequences
You'd be surprised the proportion of American cops who are very much pro-2nd-Amendment.

What is less surprising is the amount of gun enthusiasts who apply to become police officers.
I mean, the cops are drawn from the population.
User avatar
DOB
Posts: 20190
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by DOB »

fonzeee wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:32 am
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:17 am
jambanja wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:25 am
Newsome wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 am Why are the police in America not trying to get guns banned (for citizens)?
I’d imagine the police would be doing everything possible to get rid of guns but I think you’ll find it’s got nothing to do with them, sadly they just get to deal with the consequences
You'd be surprised the proportion of American cops who are very much pro-2nd-Amendment.

What is less surprising is the amount of gun enthusiasts who apply to become police officers.
I mean, the cops are drawn from the population.
Wtf thought that was a good idea?
User avatar
fonzeee
Posts: 4597
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:29 am
fonzeee wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:32 am
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:17 am
jambanja wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:25 am
Newsome wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 am Why are the police in America not trying to get guns banned (for citizens)?
I’d imagine the police would be doing everything possible to get rid of guns but I think you’ll find it’s got nothing to do with them, sadly they just get to deal with the consequences
You'd be surprised the proportion of American cops who are very much pro-2nd-Amendment.

What is less surprising is the amount of gun enthusiasts who apply to become police officers.
I mean, the cops are drawn from the population.
Wtf thought that was a good idea?
It was a bit of an oversight in retrospect.

(I like this, I'm actually thinking I might do this more in the future)
BBB
Posts: 8486
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:08 am
Location: Sydney

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by BBB »

puku wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm Young man gets pulled over last night in a suburb 10 miles north of downtown Minneapolis for having air fresheners dangling from his rear view mirror (yup, it's not legal :shock: ), found to have an outstanding arrest warrant, gets back in his car drives off and an officer fires his weapon into the car killing him. :( .

Why? Why was it necessarily for the cop to fire his gun? What is even more effed up, is that the guy's girlfriend was in the passenger seat. What runs through this Cop's mind to think, I gotta get this guy before he flees. Deescalation my fücken ass. I'm pissed off.

Of course this precipitates mini riots last night :(
The (female) cop seemed to panic a bit.

Yelled “Taser,taser” then apparently didn’t realise she’d grabbed her pistol before firing.
C69
Posts: 41441
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:44 pm
Location: For Wales the Welsh and aproppriate pronouns

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by C69 »

BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:41 am
puku wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm Young man gets pulled over last night in a suburb 10 miles north of downtown Minneapolis for having air fresheners dangling from his rear view mirror (yup, it's not legal :shock: ), found to have an outstanding arrest warrant, gets back in his car drives off and an officer fires his weapon into the car killing him. :( .

Why? Why was it necessarily for the cop to fire his gun? What is even more effed up, is that the guy's girlfriend was in the passenger seat. What runs through this Cop's mind to think, I gotta get this guy before he flees. Deescalation my fücken ass. I'm pissed off.

Of course this precipitates mini riots last night :(
The (female) cop seemed to panic a bit.

Yelled “Taser,taser” then apparently didn’t realise she’d grabbed her pistol before firing.
It does seem to be a mistake, gross incompetence at best.
User avatar
fatcat
Posts: 15218
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fatcat »

Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
where is the dout in your mind
User avatar
puku
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Saint Paul

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by puku »

C69 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:21 am
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:41 am
puku wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm Young man gets pulled over last night in a suburb 10 miles north of downtown Minneapolis for having air fresheners dangling from his rear view mirror (yup, it's not legal :shock: ), found to have an outstanding arrest warrant, gets back in his car drives off and an officer fires his weapon into the car killing him. :( .

Why? Why was it necessarily for the cop to fire his gun? What is even more effed up, is that the guy's girlfriend was in the passenger seat. What runs through this Cop's mind to think, I gotta get this guy before he flees. Deescalation my fücken ass. I'm pissed off.

Of course this precipitates mini riots last night :(
The (female) cop seemed to panic a bit.

Yelled “Taser,taser” then apparently didn’t realise she’d grabbed her pistol before firing.
It does seem to be a mistake, gross incompetence at best.
I let my emotions get the better of me when I wrote the above. It is clear, to me at least, that she meant to taser the guy. The fact that her gross incompetency lead to his death doesn't excuse her culpability in his death. She should be punished for that.
User avatar
puku
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Saint Paul

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by puku »

fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
The defense's pathology expert got skewered yesterday trying to introduce carbon monoxide as a contributing factor in Floyd's death. Eye rolls all around.
C69
Posts: 41441
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:44 pm
Location: For Wales the Welsh and aproppriate pronouns

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by C69 »

puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:24 pm
fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
The defense's pathology expert got skewered yesterday trying to introduce carbon monoxide as a contributing factor in Floyd's death. Eye rolls all around.
CO?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
puku
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Saint Paul

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by puku »

C69 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:36 pm
puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:24 pm
fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
The defense's pathology expert got skewered yesterday trying to introduce carbon monoxide as a contributing factor in Floyd's death. Eye rolls all around.
CO?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Yep. Apparently there was an exchange over the number of exhaust pipes the Police Interceptor (tooled up Ford Explorer) had. This despite the fact that the toxicology reports made zero mention of CO or that Chauvin and his mates didn't report any symptoms of CO poisoning.

Anything to muddy the water.
User avatar
fatcat
Posts: 15218
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fatcat »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:06 pm
fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
where is the dout in your mind
That the cause of death was predominantly the fault of Chauvin's use of force and, even if it was, that he committed a felony with that use of force. I believe either or both of those need to be proven beyond reasonable doubt in order to convict him. Caveat - I haven't heard all the evidence, just some of the expert testimony, plus I'm not saying that I think the jury shouldn't convict him.
User avatar
fatcat
Posts: 15218
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fatcat »

puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:24 pm
fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
The defense's pathology expert got skewered yesterday trying to introduce carbon monoxide as a contributing factor in Floyd's death. Eye rolls all around.
What did you think of his testimony aside from the CO?
User avatar
DOB
Posts: 20190
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by DOB »

puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:45 pm
C69 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:36 pm
puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:24 pm
fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
The defense's pathology expert got skewered yesterday trying to introduce carbon monoxide as a contributing factor in Floyd's death. Eye rolls all around.
CO?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Yep. Apparently there was an exchange over the number of exhaust pipes the Police Interceptor (tooled up Ford Explorer) had. This despite the fact that the toxicology reports made zero mention of CO or that Chauvin and his mates didn't report any symptoms of CO poisoning.

Anything to muddy the water.
Even if you allow CO poisoning as a factor, you then have to also acknowledge that Floyd was exposed to CO because Chauvin was kneeling on his fcuking neck right next to the exhaust pipe.
User avatar
Sefton
Posts: 16329
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Sefton »

FFS, you must be dying of boredom, Fatty.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:58 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:06 pm
fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
where is the dout in your mind
That the cause of death was predominantly the fault of Chauvin's use of force and, even if it was, that he committed a felony with that use of force. I believe either or both of those need to be proven beyond reasonable doubt in order to convict him. Caveat - I haven't heard all the evidence, just some of the expert testimony, plus I'm not saying that I think the jury shouldn't convict him.
let me be more specific. What causes you to doubt his use of force was the cause of death. Plus do you think refusing to get off floyd and put him in the recovery position when other officers are telling you he is unconscious and has no pulse is a felony
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

DOB wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:00 pm
puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:45 pm
C69 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:36 pm
puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:24 pm
fatcat wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 pm Evidence is complete. Closing arguments to be heard on Monday. Hard to know how this will go - prosecution and defence both had good witness testimony. Should be enough for reasonable doubt but lord knows how the jury will deliberate under what must be gigantic pressure and fear.
The defense's pathology expert got skewered yesterday trying to introduce carbon monoxide as a contributing factor in Floyd's death. Eye rolls all around.
CO?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Yep. Apparently there was an exchange over the number of exhaust pipes the Police Interceptor (tooled up Ford Explorer) had. This despite the fact that the toxicology reports made zero mention of CO or that Chauvin and his mates didn't report any symptoms of CO poisoning.

Anything to muddy the water.
Even if you allow CO poisoning as a factor, you then have to also acknowledge that Floyd was exposed to CO because Chauvin was kneeling on his fcuking neck right next to the exhaust pipe.
This was the same defence expert who conveniently forgot to add the weight of Chauvins clothing and equipment into his calculations of Chauvins weight. So 175lbs became 140lbs.
mr flaps
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by mr flaps »

jambanja wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:25 am
Newsome wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 am
DAC_ wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:59 pm
puku wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm Young man gets pulled over last night in a suburb 10 miles north of downtown Minneapolis for having air fresheners dangling from his rear view mirror (yup, it's not legal :shock: ), found to have an outstanding arrest warrant, gets back in his car drives off and an officer fires his weapon into the car killing him. :( .

Why? Why was it necessarily for the cop to fire his gun? What is even more effed up, is that the guy's girlfriend was in the passenger seat. What runs through this Cop's mind to think, I gotta get this guy before he flees. Deescalation my fücken ass. I'm pissed off.

Of course this precipitates mini riots last night :(
Whilst terrible did you see the video of the cop being murdered at the weekend. Guy took an automatic from his car and shot him in the head. :?
Saw that yesterday. Just beggars belief.

Why are the police in America not trying to get guns banned (for citizens)?
I’d imagine the police would be doing everything possible to get rid of guns but I think you’ll find it’s got nothing to do with them, sadly they just get to deal with the consequences
All of the Cops I know encouraged me to get my CCP and have no fear of legal gun owners.
User avatar
puku
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Saint Paul

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by puku »

mr flaps wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:25 pm
All of the Cops I know encouraged me to get my CCP and have no fear of legal gun owners.
Really? Plenty of examples where legal guns have been used against cops.

And there is the Philandro Castile case, where the cop shot him dead anyway.
mr flaps
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by mr flaps »

puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:31 pm
mr flaps wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:25 pm
All of the Cops I know encouraged me to get my CCP and have no fear of legal gun owners.
Really? Plenty of examples where legal guns have been used against cops.

And there is the Philandro Castile case, where the cop shot him dead anyway.
Yes really. I imagine those incidents are very, very rare.
User avatar
puku
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Saint Paul

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by puku »

mr flaps wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:34 pm
puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:31 pm
mr flaps wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:25 pm
All of the Cops I know encouraged me to get my CCP and have no fear of legal gun owners.
Really? Plenty of examples where legal guns have been used against cops.

And there is the Philandro Castile case, where the cop shot him dead anyway.
Yes really. I imagine those incidents are very, very rare.
Gun used in the recent Boulder mass killing was legally purchased. One of the dead was a veteran Cop. Seems to me, that Cops should have plenty of concerns around legal gun owners and not just the gang bangers with illegal weapons.
User avatar
BlackMac
Posts: 7226
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Middle of the Lothians

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by BlackMac »

fonzeee wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:58 pm
Mr Mike wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 pm Understand the passion and sentiment but important to note that the prosecution isn’t suggesting that “ALL HIS WEIGHT IS FORCED DOWN ON THAT KNEE”. They use “most” or “mostly” because part of the medical case is that the right knee also compressed Floyd’s side and compromised his ability to expand his lungs, aggravating the impact of the restraint.
People should also remember the other knee was on George Floyds back. Thus also inhibiting his ability to breathe.
It doesn't have quite the shock factor of a knee on the back of the neck, but it's quite reasonable to believe that this was actually what killed him.

IIRC BlackMac was saying this was specifically forbidden in UK policing precisely because of the danger of traumatic asphyxiation (edit: don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but I mean "you can't breathe because your chest is compressed") in these circumstances.
Positional asphyxiation. Basically any restrained person lying face down on their chest can expire within 6 to 10 minutes. Heavy set males are most at risk as their large shoulders and arms increase the compression on the chest. SOP in UK policing is to get restrained persons up as soon as safely possible, even just to have them sitting on their backside. Difficult to accept that these lads weren't aware of the danger.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

puku wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:59 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:48 pm
DAC_ wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:38 pm Why?
Don't know if they are allowed to. In the UK the prosecution can't just introduce evidence of your previous convictions. I believe the defence would have to had introduced the defendants previous character into the trial first. I know this is a different country and it's a police officers disciplinary record not conviction and different states have different rules but I'm not sure they can
These will not be convictions per se but rather insight into his character. Maybe Mr Mike can opine.

The defense will introduce Floyd's prior drug use.
Didnt come up did it
mr flaps
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by mr flaps »

puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:38 pm
mr flaps wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:34 pm
puku wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:31 pm
mr flaps wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:25 pm
All of the Cops I know encouraged me to get my CCP and have no fear of legal gun owners.
Really? Plenty of examples where legal guns have been used against cops.

And there is the Philandro Castile case, where the cop shot him dead anyway.
Yes really. I imagine those incidents are very, very rare.
Gun used in the recent Boulder mass killing was legally purchased. One of the dead was a veteran Cop. Seems to me, that Cops should have plenty of concerns around legal gun owners and not just the gang bangers with illegal weapons.
Like I said, rare.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

BlackMac wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:48 pm
fonzeee wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:58 pm
Mr Mike wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 pm Understand the passion and sentiment but important to note that the prosecution isn’t suggesting that “ALL HIS WEIGHT IS FORCED DOWN ON THAT KNEE”. They use “most” or “mostly” because part of the medical case is that the right knee also compressed Floyd’s side and compromised his ability to expand his lungs, aggravating the impact of the restraint.
People should also remember the other knee was on George Floyds back. Thus also inhibiting his ability to breathe.
It doesn't have quite the shock factor of a knee on the back of the neck, but it's quite reasonable to believe that this was actually what killed him.

IIRC BlackMac was saying this was specifically forbidden in UK policing precisely because of the danger of traumatic asphyxiation (edit: don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but I mean "you can't breathe because your chest is compressed") in these circumstances.
Positional asphyxiation. Basically any restrained person lying face down on their chest can expire within 6 to 10 minutes. Heavy set males are most at risk as their large shoulders and arms increase the compression on the chest. SOP in UK policing is to get restrained persons up as soon as safely possible, even just to have them sitting on their backside. Difficult to accept that these lads weren't aware of the danger.
Can you think of a legal reason to keep a suspect in that position who is unconscious and has no pulse
User avatar
fonzeee
Posts: 4597
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

BlackMac wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:48 pm
fonzeee wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:58 pm
Mr Mike wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 pm Understand the passion and sentiment but important to note that the prosecution isn’t suggesting that “ALL HIS WEIGHT IS FORCED DOWN ON THAT KNEE”. They use “most” or “mostly” because part of the medical case is that the right knee also compressed Floyd’s side and compromised his ability to expand his lungs, aggravating the impact of the restraint.
People should also remember the other knee was on George Floyds back. Thus also inhibiting his ability to breathe.
It doesn't have quite the shock factor of a knee on the back of the neck, but it's quite reasonable to believe that this was actually what killed him.

IIRC BlackMac was saying this was specifically forbidden in UK policing precisely because of the danger of traumatic asphyxiation (edit: don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but I mean "you can't breathe because your chest is compressed") in these circumstances.
Positional asphyxiation. Basically any restrained person lying face down on their chest can expire within 6 to 10 minutes. Heavy set males are most at risk as their large shoulders and arms increase the compression on the chest. SOP in UK policing is to get restrained persons up as soon as safely possible, even just to have them sitting on their backside. Difficult to accept that these lads weren't aware of the danger.
Ah there we are, thank you :thumbup:
User avatar
BlackMac
Posts: 7226
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Middle of the Lothians

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by BlackMac »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:00 pm
BlackMac wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:48 pm
fonzeee wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:58 pm
Mr Mike wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 pm Understand the passion and sentiment but important to note that the prosecution isn’t suggesting that “ALL HIS WEIGHT IS FORCED DOWN ON THAT KNEE”. They use “most” or “mostly” because part of the medical case is that the right knee also compressed Floyd’s side and compromised his ability to expand his lungs, aggravating the impact of the restraint.
People should also remember the other knee was on George Floyds back. Thus also inhibiting his ability to breathe.
It doesn't have quite the shock factor of a knee on the back of the neck, but it's quite reasonable to believe that this was actually what killed him.

IIRC BlackMac was saying this was specifically forbidden in UK policing precisely because of the danger of traumatic asphyxiation (edit: don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but I mean "you can't breathe because your chest is compressed") in these circumstances.
Positional asphyxiation. Basically any restrained person lying face down on their chest can expire within 6 to 10 minutes. Heavy set males are most at risk as their large shoulders and arms increase the compression on the chest. SOP in UK policing is to get restrained persons up as soon as safely possible, even just to have them sitting on their backside. Difficult to accept that these lads weren't aware of the danger.
Can you think of a legal reason to keep a suspect in that position who is unconscious and has no pulse
I don't think there is anything anyone can say to justify what we saw happen here. Know one I know, serving or otherwise is willing or able to understand what the officers involved were thinking.
User avatar
A5D5E5
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:57 pm

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by A5D5E5 »

BlackMac wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:17 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:00 pm
BlackMac wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:48 pm
fonzeee wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:58 pm
People should also remember the other knee was on George Floyds back. Thus also inhibiting his ability to breathe.
It doesn't have quite the shock factor of a knee on the back of the neck, but it's quite reasonable to believe that this was actually what killed him.

IIRC BlackMac was saying this was specifically forbidden in UK policing precisely because of the danger of traumatic asphyxiation (edit: don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but I mean "you can't breathe because your chest is compressed") in these circumstances.
Positional asphyxiation. Basically any restrained person lying face down on their chest can expire within 6 to 10 minutes. Heavy set males are most at risk as their large shoulders and arms increase the compression on the chest. SOP in UK policing is to get restrained persons up as soon as safely possible, even just to have them sitting on their backside. Difficult to accept that these lads weren't aware of the danger.
Can you think of a legal reason to keep a suspect in that position who is unconscious and has no pulse
I don't think there is anything anyone can say to justify what we saw happen here. Know one I know, serving or otherwise is willing or able to understand what the officers involved were thinking.
And that is why UK policing is still done by consent and US policing is done by force.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

A5D5E5 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:43 am
BlackMac wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:17 am I don't think there is anything anyone can say to justify what we saw happen here. Know one I know, serving or otherwise is willing or able to understand what the officers involved were thinking.
And that is why UK policing is still done by consent and US policing is done by force.
TBF I think even the likes of fatcat might want Chauvin to get off but in reality know he is guilty and its just their politics leading them.
User avatar
fatcat
Posts: 15218
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fatcat »

I don't want him to get off you dishonest loon.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

fatcat wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:21 am I don't want him to get off you dishonest loon.
let me be more specific. What causes you to doubt his use of force was the cause of death. Plus do you think refusing to get off floyd and put him in the recovery position when other officers are telling you he is unconscious and has no pulse is a felony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmqJrlmFPYk
User avatar
jdogscoop
Posts: 14659
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by jdogscoop »

Chauvin will go down for a long time, like the incompetent buffoon who shot the Australian lady who called the cops elsewhere in the US.

And deservedly so.
User avatar
Anonymous 1
Posts: 42286
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Location: Planet Rock

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

jdogscoop wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:25 pm Chauvin will go down for a long time, like the incompetent buffoon who shot the Australian lady who called the cops elsewhere in the US.

And deservedly so.
Actually its the same police force
User avatar
jdogscoop
Posts: 14659
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by jdogscoop »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:28 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:25 pm Chauvin will go down for a long time, like the incompetent buffoon who shot the Australian lady who called the cops elsewhere in the US.

And deservedly so.
Actually its the same police force
And?
Post Reply