The Derek Chauvin trial

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puku
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The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by puku »

Not seeing a thread on the event that triggered widespread protest here and abroad, that unfortunately also spiraled into outbreaks of violence and looting.

We are into Day 4 of jury selection. 6 jurists have been selected out of the 16 required, so it is a slow deliberative process. Diverse group so far reflective of Hennepin County. One young guy was "thanked for his service" and then promptly dismissed when he said the cops profiled his father as a black man and that he didn't trust MPD.

Chauvin is now facing a 3rd degree murder charge. I like this. Threshold is lower than the 2nd, but it still carries a 25 year sentence.

Chauvin deserves to go down.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Chauvin already faced second-degree murder and manslaughter charges. Legal experts say the additional charge helps prosecutors by giving jurors another option to find Chauvin guilty of murder. Cahill told potential jurors after the ruling that he still expected opening statements on 29 March.

The dispute over the third-degree murder charge revolved around wording in the law that references an act “eminently dangerous to others”. Cahill’s initial decision to dismiss the charge noted that Chauvin’s conduct might be construed as not dangerous to anyone but Floyd.

But prosecutors sought to revive the charge after the state’s court of appeals recently upheld the third-degree murder conviction of another former Minneapolis police officer in the 2017 killing of an Australian woman. They argued that the ruling established precedent that the charge could be brought even in a case where only a single person is endangered.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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puku wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:13 am Not seeing a thread on the event that triggered widespread protest here and abroad, that unfortunately also spiraled into outbreaks of violence and looting.

We are into Day 4 of jury selection. 6 jurists have been selected out of the 16 required, so it is a slow deliberative process. Diverse group so far reflective of Hennepin County. One young guy was "thanked for his service" and then promptly dismissed when he said the cops profiled his father as a black man and that he didn't trust MPD.

Chauvin is now facing a 3rd degree murder charge. I like this. Threshold is lower than the 2nd, but it still carries a 25 year sentence.

Chauvin deserves to go down.
Yep. And imagine the outrage on the streets if he isn't convicted, if there is a hung jury. You would think not, but that sort of thing has happened in the past.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

puku wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:13 am Not seeing a thread on the event that triggered widespread protest here and abroad, that unfortunately also spiraled into outbreaks of violence and looting.

We are into Day 4 of jury selection. 6 jurists have been selected out of the 16 required, so it is a slow deliberative process. Diverse group so far reflective of Hennepin County. One young guy was "thanked for his service" and then promptly dismissed when he said the cops profiled his father as a black man and that he didn't trust MPD.

Chauvin is now facing a 3rd degree murder charge. I like this. Threshold is lower than the 2nd, but it still carries a 25 year sentence.

Chauvin deserves to go down.
Oh wow, that's good. Didn't want to see a repeat of the Zimmerman case.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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fonzeee wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:16 am
puku wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:13 am Not seeing a thread on the event that triggered widespread protest here and abroad, that unfortunately also spiraled into outbreaks of violence and looting.

We are into Day 4 of jury selection. 6 jurists have been selected out of the 16 required, so it is a slow deliberative process. Diverse group so far reflective of Hennepin County. One young guy was "thanked for his service" and then promptly dismissed when he said the cops profiled his father as a black man and that he didn't trust MPD.

Chauvin is now facing a 3rd degree murder charge. I like this. Threshold is lower than the 2nd, but it still carries a 25 year sentence.

Chauvin deserves to go down.
Oh wow, that's good. Didn't want to see a repeat of the Zimmerman case.
Seems there was no point charging him with 3rd degree before. Now the jury have three to pick from.
prosecutors sought to revive the charge after the state’s court of appeals recently upheld the third-degree murder conviction of another former Minneapolis police officer in the 2017 killing of an Australian woman. They argued that the ruling established precedent that the charge could be brought even in a case where only a single person is endangered.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Rowdy »

No reason to find Chauvin guilty of anything. He was following SOP and St George was about to kark it on ketamines.

Doesn't matter though - they could find Chauvin guilty of murder and have him publicly hanged, drawn and quartered; the NPCs in the latest 'autonomous zone' (one black guy dead, one injured so far) will still tear everything down and burn the wreckage.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Floyd was being resisting the entire time
Um... that long period of time where he was immobile, then lost consciousness and then died. And Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck. Even as citizens begged the police to get off him and check he was still alive... you would class that as "resisting"?
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:40 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
Yes of course. White men never die of drugs.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
All we can hope for is a fair trial and a just outcome.

Whatever the verdict, there will be deadly riots.(10-20 fatalities)

Hopefully the country will settle down relatively quickly
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:44 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Floyd was being resisting the entire time
Um... that long period of time where he was immobile, then lost consciousness and then died. And Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck. Even as citizens begged the police to get off him and check he was still alive... you would class that as "resisting"?
No, I class the refusing to put his arms behind his back, kicking his legs up against the side of the police car to prevent himself going in, running out the otherside of the police car and then refusing to go back in resisting. Given he was such a large man, after 10 minutes of such actions, he left them no choice.

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=0gQYMBALDXc EDIT:I keep posting this link to the chest cam of one of the officers, but it goes directly to a very disturbing seen, so if you'd liek to see the resisting, add the w and check out

As for the kneeling on him, he'd spent the prior 10 minutes, whilst standing up, saying he couldn't breathe. The officer just did what his training instructed.
Last edited by Theflier on Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:52 pm
4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:44 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Floyd was being resisting the entire time
Um... that long period of time where he was immobile, then lost consciousness and then died. And Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck. Even as citizens begged the police to get off him and check he was still alive... you would class that as "resisting"?
No, I class the refusing to put his arms behind his back, kicking his legs up against the side of the police car to prevent himself going in, running out the otherside of the police car and then refusing to go back in resisting. Given he was such a large man, after 10 minutes of such actions, he left them no choice.

Edit 5 mins

As for the kneeling on him, he'd spent the prior 10 minutes, whilst standing up, saying he couldn't breathe. The officer just did what his training instructed.
:roll:
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:52 pm
4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:44 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Floyd was being resisting the entire time
Um... that long period of time where he was immobile, then lost consciousness and then died. And Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck. Even as citizens begged the police to get off him and check he was still alive... you would class that as "resisting"?
No, I class the refusing to put his arms behind his back, kicking his legs up against the side of the police car to prevent himself going in, running out the otherside of the police car and then refusing to go back in resisting. Given he was such a large man, after 10 minutes of such actions, he left them no choice.

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=0gQYMBALDXc

As for the kneeling on him, he'd spent the prior 10 minutes, whilst standing up, saying he couldn't breathe. The officer just did what his training instructed.
Oh, right. Because he resisted arrest for a period, once he was restrained and immobile and no longer resisting (or conscious. Or even alive) then the police had no choice but to continue to kill him. As per operating procedures.

Yum yum... polish is so tasty!
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:59 pm I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
Reasonably is just our opinion though. By the parameters of his training he acted reasonably.
Whether we think the police officer should be found guilty matters fudge all.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:05 pm
MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:59 pm I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
Reasonably is just our opinion though. By the parameters of his training he acted reasonably.
Whether we think the police officer should be found guilty matters fudge all.
If the 'parameters of his training' mean kneeling on an unconscious bloke's neck for several minutes, then the entire Minneapolis police force should be up for murder.

Personally, I think Chauvin showed a complete lack of common sense and deserves whatever he gets.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:59 pm I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
This

Is it even necessary to kneel on someone’s neck?

I don’t think I can recall seeing coppers do that in other situations. Sounds dangerous...

Wait, it obviously is.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:07 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:05 pm
MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:59 pm I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
Reasonably is just our opinion though. By the parameters of his training he acted reasonably.
Whether we think the police officer should be found guilty matters fudge all.
If the 'parameters of his training' mean kneeling on an unconscious bloke's neck for several minutes, then the entire Minneapolis police force should be up for murder.

Personally, I think Chauvin showed a complete lack of common sense and deserves whatever he gets.
The training manual for the minneapolis police force, explicitly says to kneel on the neck of a resisting suspect in the manner Chauvin did.
It wouldn't be a surprise if he was acquitted, especially had it not caused the uprising it did.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:40 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
No, because you and your mob wouldn't give a shit.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Bogbunny wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:50 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
All we can hope for is a fair trial and a just outcome.

Whatever the verdict, there will be deadly riots.(10-20 fatalities)

Hopefully the country will settle down relatively quickly
I agree. We are probably in the minority.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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I've just read that Minneapolis is to pay Floyd's family $27m. Bizarre that they would do this before the trial of Chauvin and his colleagues. I wonder when the last time a white family got that much money when a family member was killed by police when no crime was proven to have been commited.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:42 pm
4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:40 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
No, because you and your mob wouldn't give a shit.
The Julian Conley trial will get little mention on here, even though the victim was an eight year old girl with no drugs in her system.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Mick Mannock wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:59 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:42 pm
4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:40 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
No, because you and your mob wouldn't give a shit.
The Julian Conley trial will get little mention on here, even though the victim was an eight year old girl with no drugs in her system.
I'm guessing that's not the case of a black man killing a white child because he didn't appreciate the noise the child made while playing in the garden, as I seem to recall the child was a boy. Of course that has bog all to do with the police but it got very little press for such an outrageous and appalling incident, which is odd until you consider the respective ethnicities of those involved.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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Secoriea Turner.

Few fucks given
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
I suppose you might try to get some wiggle room on "evincing a depraved mind", arguing that it's in the police manual etc., but that's somewhat undermined by the fact that he kept on top of him post-unconsciousness.

Hard to argue that a conviction here would be a miscarriage of justice IMO.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:40 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
Didn't work out that way for Tony Timpa.

Although officers were nice enough to kneel on him for 13 minutes, whereas Floyd couldn't even get 9.

White privilege strikes again :thumbdown:
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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fonzeee wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:24 am
4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:40 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
Didn't work out that way for Tony Timpa.

Although officers were nice enough to kneel on him for 13 minutes, whereas Floyd couldn't even get 9.

White privilege strikes again :thumbdown:
Ahh, Tony Timpa. The case that was almost identical to then, several pages later, nothing like the George Floyd case according to a poster who shall remain nameless!
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:59 pm I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
one reason is they are usual suspect right wing racists.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Whatever »

shanky wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:12 pm
MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:59 pm I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
This

Is it even necessary to kneel on someone’s neck?

I don’t think I can recall seeing coppers do that in other situations. Sounds dangerous...

Wait, it obviously is.
Not when they are handcuffed.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by puku »

fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:50 pm I've just read that Minneapolis is to pay Floyd's family $27m. Bizarre that they would do this before the trial of Chauvin and his colleagues. I wonder when the last time a white family got that much money when a family member was killed by police when no crime was proven to have been commited.
In June 2019, Noor was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison. Damond's family brought a civil lawsuit against the City of Minneapolis alleging violation of Damond's civil rights, which the city settled for $US20 million, one of the largest-ever settlements in a suit involving a police killing.
I noted your qualifier. Having said that, Civil suits don't have the same rigor as criminal cases.

I agree that the timing is odd though. Selecting the jury just became more arduous.
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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MICK SAYS

TRUMP IS NOT A RACIST
THERE WAS WIDE SPREAD ELECTION FRAUD
GEORGE FLOYD WAS NOT KILLED BY CHAUVIN
MICK HAS A BLACK WIFE
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:17 am
MrDominator wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:59 pm I don't know how on earth anyone watches that and thinks the police acted reasonably.

It was clearly a difficult situation, and Floyd was obviously high, but they continued to kneel on him when he was unresponsive. They also made no effort to de-escalate the situation or calm him down.
one reason is they are usual suspect right wing racists.
Ahem

#NotAllRightWingRacists
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

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fatcat wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:27 am
fonzeee wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:24 am
4071 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:40 pm
fatcat wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:33 pm
Theflier wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:49 pm Saw a chest camera video of the entire arrest two days ago, I'm not sure where a guilty verdict comes from, Floyd was being resisting the entire time, tried to escape the police car, claimed he couldn't breath for a good 10 minutes before he got to the floor, was carrying crack and had multiple heavy drugs in his system. The officer subdued him as per his training.
I think the only thing we know for sure is that if Floyd had been a white man no one would even know the name Derek Chauvin.
Because Floyd would still be alive?
Didn't work out that way for Tony Timpa.

Although officers were nice enough to kneel on him for 13 minutes, whereas Floyd couldn't even get 9.

White privilege strikes again :thumbdown:
Ahh, Tony Timpa. The case that was almost identical to then, several pages later, nothing like the George Floyd case according to a poster who shall remain nameless!
Really, Fatcat?

Really?
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

For those saying he was within the bounds of his training and proper Minny PD police procedure, this is from the department use of force policy manual:

5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.

Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)

PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.

A. The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)

B. The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)

1. On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
2. For life saving purposes, or;
3. On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.

C. Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)

D. After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)

After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.

An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject.
Relatedly, the definitions of the various forms of "resistance" from the same:
Active Aggression: Behavior initiated by a subject that may or may not be in response to police efforts to bring the person into custody or control. A subject engages in active aggression when presenting behaviors that constitute an assault or the circumstances reasonably indicate that an assault or injury to any person is likely to occur at any moment. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

Active Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. A subject engages in active resistance when engaging in physical actions (or verbal behavior reflecting an intention) to make it more difficult for officers to achieve actual physical control. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

Passive Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. This is behavior initiated by a subject, when the subject does not comply with verbal or physical control efforts, yet the subject does not attempt to defeat an officer’s control efforts. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

So it says categorically that neck restraints cannot be used on someone who's passively resisting. I think the most you could argue is that, if the whole arrest is viewed as one singular "action" (which definitely included active resistance in parts), then Chauvin would have been authorized to render him unconscious this way. (Even then though, unless "sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation" under the After Care Guidelines means keeping your knee on his neck post-loss of consciousness, that's still "eminently dangerous and evincing a depraved mind" in my book, especially when you account for his partner twice asking if they ought to turn him over)

However, and I think most would agree with this interpretation, after at most a minute on the ground, he had basically given up and had at least ceased thrashing around. That's passive resistance to me ("does not attempt to defeat an officer's control efforts"). I count about 4-5 minutes between then and when he passes out. The language used above is in the present tense ("subject who is exhibiting active resistance"/"subjects who are passively resisting"). So if he was passively resisting for those couple minutes, the move (indeed any sort of neck restraint) wasn't authorized at that point, unless we assume that a plain reading of the manual misleads and that it actually permits officers to render one unconscious, however long it takes, regardless of what the situation is at present, if the subject actively resists control for even a second at any point in the arrest (or even just verbalizes the intention). And even if the stated goal, "to gain control of the subject", has been achieved.

So I don't think you can really argue the guidelines authorized his behavior according to any reasonable understanding of the above. IMO.
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fonzeee
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by fonzeee »

Shouldn't that say "can't"?
Mick Mannock
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Mick Mannock »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:21 am MICK SAYS

TRUMP IS NOT A RACIST
THERE WAS WIDE SPREAD ELECTION FRAUD
GEORGE FLOYD WAS NOT KILLED BY CHAUVIN
MICK HAS A BLACK WIFE
1) Trump might be a racist. A lot of people have a degree of racism.
2) I have not argued that this was widespread.
3) Chauvin might have killed Floyd. The trial has not yet concluded.

The fact that I have a black wife is an obsession for some on here. You are one of these obsessives. Only you know the real motives for your obsession.

I do not bait you.

Perhaps you could cease baiting me.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Mick Mannock wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:19 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:21 am MICK SAYS

TRUMP IS NOT A RACIST
THERE WAS WIDE SPREAD ELECTION FRAUD
GEORGE FLOYD WAS NOT KILLED BY CHAUVIN
MICK HAS A BLACK WIFE
1) Trump might be a racist. A lot of people have a degree of racism.
2) I have not argued that this was widespread.
3) Chauvin might have killed Floyd. The trial has not yet concluded.

The fact that I have a black wife is an obsession for some on here. You are one of these obsessives. Only you know the real motives for your obsession.

I do not bait you.

Perhaps you could cease baiting me.
Chauvin killed him you tosser
C69
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Re: The Derek Chauvin trial

Post by C69 »

Mick Mannock wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:19 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:21 am MICK SAYS

TRUMP IS NOT A RACIST
THERE WAS WIDE SPREAD ELECTION FRAUD
GEORGE FLOYD WAS NOT KILLED BY CHAUVIN
MICK HAS A BLACK WIFE
1) Trump might be a racist. A lot of people have a degree of racism.
2) I have not argued that this was widespread.
3) Chauvin might have killed Floyd. The trial has not yet concluded.

The fact that I have a black wife is an obsession for some on here. You are one of these obsessives. Only you know the real motives for your obsession.

I do not bait you.

Perhaps you could cease baiting me.
I am not getting into the details of the death but surely it is a fact that Chauvin killed him or was at least involved in his death?
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