O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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MrDominator
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O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by MrDominator »

Difficult to disagree with a man who's recently coached the Crusaders:
Despite Ireland’s confidence-boosting Guinness Six Nations win over Scotland at Murrayfield, winger James Lowe is once again in the crosshairs of critics.

While the blockbusting strike runner made 62 metres with ball in hand, it was his endeavours on the other side of the ball that have raised the hackles of critics. The Leinsterman’s lethargy in defence and busted tackle attempts left plenty to be desired and have raised question marks about why his transition to Test rugby has, to date, been so fraught with difficulties.

Ireland head coach Andy Farrell, not usually a man to single out a player, noted: “We’ll sit down with James. There’s obviously others we need to sit down, with him, and teach them what international football is all about.”

Last November former England winger Chris Ashton faced significant backlash after criticising Lowe when Ireland lost to England in the Autumn Nations Cup. ‘He is too big, too heavy, too slow,’ said Ashton of Lowe when reviewing Jonny May’s 85 metre wonder try.

Three months on and Ashton’s harsh criticism seems remarkably prescient.

Former Ireland flyhalf Ronan O’Gara suggested that Lowe, who comes from a Super Rugby background, needs to understand that the central role of defence plays in northern hemisphere rugby.

“Over here I think our understanding of the defence and how we set up to succeed defensively is 50/50. In Super Rugby it is 80/20. You spend 80 per cent of your time on attack, it’s an entertainment business and it’s all about scoring tries,” said O’Gara who has coached at Crusaders. “I think he has to understand and appreciate that here it is 50/50. The most you can get out of ten if you’re not interested in defence is a five. This side we really appreciate guys who are good on both sides of the ball.”

“You hear Stuart Lancaster [in Leinster] talk about him in detail about the work-ons he has, but unfortunately for Leinster he doesn’t really get tested so it’s hard… The difference between playing in the PRO14 and test level is just chalk and cheese.”

Former Scotland and Ulster head coach Matt Williams, speaking on Virgin Media in Ireland, described much of his performance as ‘not acceptable’.

“I hate to pick on James Lowe because he’s a lovely guy, but that’s just not acceptable at international rugby. He has been caught out. I feel for him because he has got a lot of quality with the ball in hand and his kicking. I’m not saying he written off or he’s not up to it, but I think he’s got a lot of learning to do with the intensity required in defence. He’s just making too many mistakes.”
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/thats-ju ... e-no-show/
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guy smiley
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by guy smiley »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yup. A bloke who wasn’t good enough for Soup Rugby is found wanting at test level.

Oh... sorry, First Choice Irish Test Winger Not Good Enough For Super Rugby.
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sorCrer
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by sorCrer »

guy smiley wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:40 pm :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yup. A bloke who wasn’t good enough for Soup Rugby is found wanting at test level.

Oh... sorry, First Choice Irish Test Winger Not Good Enough For Super Rugby.
Nail on head. All about defence :lol: He averages more tries per game for Leinster than he did at the Chiefs
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by MrDominator »

So O'Gara is wrong lads?

Nothing to worry about?
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Thomas
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Thomas »

This is good banter from the lads in Easy Rugby.
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guy smiley
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by guy smiley »

Rugby world cups won by Super Rugby players=8


Rugby world cups won by non Super Rugby players=1
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Frodder »

A couple of bites there Mr D
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MrDominator
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by MrDominator »

Frodder wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 pm A couple of bites there Mr D
They seem a bit edgy, don't they?

Obviously haven't forgotten the brutal beastings meted out to Australia and New Zealand at RWC19 :smug:
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by guy smiley »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:17 pm
Frodder wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 pm A couple of bites there Mr D
They seem a bit edgy, don't they?

Obviously haven't forgotten the brutal beastings meted out to Australia and New Zealand at RWC19 :smug:
Edgy?

I’m laughing my tits off at the thought of Ireland beating anyone past the pool stages of a World Cup.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by MrDominator »

guy smiley wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:19 pm
MrDominator wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:17 pm
Frodder wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 pm A couple of bites there Mr D
They seem a bit edgy, don't they?

Obviously haven't forgotten the brutal beastings meted out to Australia and New Zealand at RWC19 :smug:
Edgy?

I’m laughing my tits off at the thought of Ireland beating anyone past the pool stages of a World Cup.
We can both laugh at that one, old bean
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guy smiley
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by guy smiley »

Sure DD. Sure we can.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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I'll never forget the sight of a bruised broken bandaged O'Gara teapotting at Loftus in 2009.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by mdaclarke »

I think this highlights the main problem with project players.

With a few exceptions (Stander, Duhan) you are trying to succeed with players who are not good enough for their Countries of origin.

You will never beat New Zealand or South Africa by trying to become New Zealand B or South Africa B.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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sorCrer wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:25 pm I'll never forget the sight of a bruised broken bandaged O'Gara teapotting at Loftus in 2009.
Isn't O'Gara the bloke so universally disliked by his team mates that they just stood by and watched him get belted senseless by Duncan McRae?
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Olddantucker »

Matt Williams?? :lol: :lol:
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Mullet 2 »

Thomas wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:12 pm This is good banter from the lads in Easy Rugby.
Says Aussie lad that old Man Rob is burning up. :lol:
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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“You hear Stuart Lancaster [in Leinster] talk about him in detail about the work-ons he has, but unfortunately for Leinster he doesn’t really get tested so it’s hard… The difference between playing in the PRO14 and test level is just chalk and cheese.
I thought PRO14 was a NH competition.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by kiwigreg369 »

jdogscoop wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:38 am
“You hear Stuart Lancaster [in Leinster] talk about him in detail about the work-ons he has, but unfortunately for Leinster he doesn’t really get tested so it’s hard… The difference between playing in the PRO14 and test level is just chalk and cheese.
I thought PRO14 was a NH competition.
It is except for the shitty Safa sides. So the weakest NH league with added weakness from the SH.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Zakar »

Thomas wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:46 pm
sorCrer wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:25 pm I'll never forget the sight of a bruised broken bandaged O'Gara teapotting at Loftus in 2009.
Isn't O'Gara the bloke so universally disliked by his team mates that they just stood by and watched him get belted senseless by Duncan McRae?
All 80kgs of Duncan nearly ended ROG.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Anonymous 1 »

The absurdity of the article is the team he plays for is so dominant in the pro14 if he is an average defender he isnt going to be stressed to the point where he can't cope. Pointing the finger at superrugby because youve selected a shit defender is a bit jdogscoop
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by towny »

I can’t find the link, but I’ve seen footage of the Duncan McRae skull-fcuking of ROG where the near-field mic picks up the voice of what sounds like an Irish player saying (growling?) “do it”.

Not sure what to make of it.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by booji boy »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:17 pm
Frodder wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 pm A couple of bites there Mr D
They seem a bit edgy, don't they?

Obviously haven't forgotten the brutal beastings meted out to Australia and New Zealand at RWC19 :smug:
Yet I seem to recall it was a Super Rugby playing nation meting out the most brutal beasting of all to win RWC19. :smug:
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by eldanielfire »

booji boy wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:19 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:17 pm
Frodder wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 pm A couple of bites there Mr D
They seem a bit edgy, don't they?

Obviously haven't forgotten the brutal beastings meted out to Australia and New Zealand at RWC19 :smug:
Yet I seem to recall it was a Super Rugby playing nation meting out the most brutal beasting of all to win RWC19. :smug:
Thanks to lot's of players basing themselves in Europe.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by mr bungle »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:20 am
booji boy wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:19 am
MrDominator wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:17 pm
Frodder wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 pm A couple of bites there Mr D
They seem a bit edgy, don't they?

Obviously haven't forgotten the brutal beastings meted out to Australia and New Zealand at RWC19 :smug:
Yet I seem to recall it was a Super Rugby playing nation meting out the most brutal beasting of all to win RWC19. :smug:
Thanks to lot's of players basing themselves in Europe.
Horseshit. They played two good sides. Lost to one and smashed the other who couldn’t get up after destroying NZ. RWCs are often lotteries for draws. Problem for the NH is only England are sometimes strong enough to win, but they’re contending with strong teams like NZ, SA & Aus.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by booji boy »

So a having a handful of players basing themselves in Europe gives them the ability to mete out a brutal beasting to a fully European team.

Makes sense.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by MrDominator »

Don't be latching onto the Saffers' coat-tails now, lads

O'Gara was talking specifically about his experiences in New Zealand rugby
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by jdogscoop »

The obvious difference here of course is between domestic and test rugby. It's a step up, on both attack and defence.

Of course Lowe is going to find it a challenge stepping up from Super Rugby to the Six Nations, just as he would if he moved from a Super Rugby side to the All Blacks.

If the NH was so profound at defence one would have thought that would translate into test dominance over the SH, when if anything it is the other way around.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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jdogscoop wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:13 am If the NH was so profound at defence one would have thought that would translate into test dominance over the SH, when if anything it is the other way around.
Pretty obvious that the All Blacks couldn't handle Northern defensive intensity either on the Lions tour or in the RWC SF.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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jdogscoop wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:13 am If the NH was so profound at defence one would have thought that would translate into test dominance over the SH, when if anything it is the other way around.
NZ on average have always scored more tries and leaked less tries against every test side. Is the NH obsession with defence purely down to the fact that their offence is typically woeful?
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Eugenius »

MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:58 am Don't be latching onto the Saffers' coat-tails now, lads

O'Gara was talking specifically about his experiences in New Zealand rugby
Then he’s been deliberately disingenuous as his involvement was in far more than the odd local derby .

In fact he spent every bit as much time as Lowe taking on the Saffers and Australians.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

Post by Eugenius »

The fact that a has-been like Lowe is playing consistently in the 6 nations says much more about the standard of that particular tournament than it does the super competition.

I was shocked that he was still playing for a professional club let alone in an International team quite frankly .
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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It must be so comforting for NZ Super Rugby players to know that if they fail to fulfil their childhood dream of playing for the All Blacks, that they can always just switch allegiances, see out an eligibility period and play for one of the Home Nations. It must be awesome to have such a great back-up plan. To have such a great Plan B. What a charmed life NZ Rugby players enjoy.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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A disappointingly insular and parochial reaction to ROG's comments from the Kiwis on here. I'm surprised you fellas aren't interested in learning from a man who knows the inner workings of your top provincial outfit better than any other northern hemisphere coach. He clearly thinks there are defensive problems there.

Now, you can dismiss his views if you like, but I'd have thought a nation who have failed abjectly against northern hemisphere opposition for the past five years might have the humility to ponder his words a little more seriously.

You won't improve with that sort of attitude.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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Eugenius wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:59 am The fact that a has-been like Lowe is playing consistently in the 6 nations says much more about the standard of that particular tournament than it does the super competition.

I was shocked that he was still playing for a professional club let alone in an International team quite frankly .
Sounds like a decent signing tbf just not good enough for test rugby
LEINSTER TODAY CONFIRMED the signing of 24-year Maori All Black James Lowe.

The back has scored 18 tries in 29 appearances for the Chiefs Super Rugby side and represented the Maori All Blacks on five occasions, scoring six tries, one of which came against Munster in Thomond Park last November.

Lowe made an impact with the Chiefs despite suffering from a rare arthritic affliction that had him bed-ridden and in severe pain as a teenager.

He made his Super League debut in 2014, scoring a try in that game, and has added a further 17 since.
https://www.the42.ie/james-lowe-signs-f ... 5-Mar2017/
Last edited by Anonymous 1 on Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:23 pm A disappointingly insular and parochial reaction to ROG's comments from the Kiwis on here. I'm surprised you fellas aren't interested in learning from a man who knows the inner workings of your top provincial outfit better than any other northern hemisphere coach. He clearly thinks there are defensive problems there.

Now, you can dismiss his views if you like, but I'd have thought a nation who have failed abjectly against northern hemisphere opposition for the past five years might have the humility to ponder his words a little more seriously.

You won't improve with that sort of attitude.
RWC Titles Won

NZ - 3
Every NH nation combined since the beginning of time - 1

If that's what failure looks like, then sign me up :thumbup:
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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Lads, you can cling on to titles won back in the olden days when you were actually good.

But it's not going to help you in the here and now. That is, the here and now where you've been bullied consistently by NH teams for the past five years.

If I were in the NZRU, I'd hire some elite northern hemisphere defence coaches
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:27 pm Lads, you can cling on to titles won back in the olden days when you were actually good.

But it's not going to help you in the here and now. That is, the here and now where you've been bullied consistently by NH teams for the past five years.

If I were in the NZRU, I'd hire some elite northern hemisphere defence coaches
Bullied consistently by NH teams? Our win rate against NH opposition over that period is well above 80%.

Are you drinking?
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:29 pm
MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:27 pm Lads, you can cling on to titles won back in the olden days when you were actually good.

But it's not going to help you in the here and now. That is, the here and now where you've been bullied consistently by NH teams for the past five years.

If I were in the NZRU, I'd hire some elite northern hemisphere defence coaches
Bullied consistently by NH teams? Our win rate against NH opposition over that period is well above 80%.
Battered in the World Cup Semi-Final.

Smashed on the Lions tour.

Even beaten twice by Ireland.

But move along, lads, nothing to see here - everything is fine in New Zealand rugby.
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:30 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:29 pm
MrDominator wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:27 pm Lads, you can cling on to titles won back in the olden days when you were actually good.

But it's not going to help you in the here and now. That is, the here and now where you've been bullied consistently by NH teams for the past five years.

If I were in the NZRU, I'd hire some elite northern hemisphere defence coaches
Bullied consistently by NH teams? Our win rate against NH opposition over that period is well above 80%.
Battered in the World Cup Semi-Final.

Smashed on the Lions tour.

Even beaten twice by Ireland.

But move along, lads, nothing to see here - everything is fine in New Zealand rugby.
I'm just trying to figure out how a winning rate of higher than 80% can possibly equate to being "bullied consistently"?
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Re: O'Gara: 'Super Rugby is soft as shite'

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Are you including Italy and Scotland?

How sweet.
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