All Black squad selection thread

All things Rugby
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Perhaps the other quite amusing thing is, JK wasn'suggesting it was form related that he thought TJP should be not signed, but age, you know the eternal hunt for youth. Obviously feels that at 31 he would be too old.
Sonny Blount
Posts: 4414
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Sonny Blount »

Dan54. wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:52 pm Perhaps the other quite amusing thing is, JK wasn'suggesting it was form related that he thought TJP should be not signed, but age, you know the eternal hunt for youth. Obviously feels that at 31 he would be too old.
TJ has up to 2 world cups in him.

These young fellas could be gone to Europe, Japan, or injury before TJ retires.
User avatar
booji boy
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:12 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by booji boy »

Dan54. wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:55 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:41 pm
Dan54. wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:38 pm
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:00 pm
JB1981 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 pm John Kirwan is copping a hiding in Stuff comments for daring to suggest we move on from TJP.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-b ... j-perenara
A ringing endorsement in favour of TJP if Kirwan things he's past it
:lol: Yep too true. But it's not like JK doesn't make the odd very strange utterances at times.
So just to clarify, you feel you are more qualified to assess TJP's worth than John Kirwan, who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams?
Well coming from you that is a most bizarre statement So you are prepared to admit that people who actually coach professionally do know more than any of us on here? Good I will bookmark that for future AB , or super discussions.
But actually, no I don't think I am more qualified to decide on whether TJPs worth than JK, and never would.
Read what I said, not that he was wrong , but he makes some awful strange comments at times, he keeps making comments without giving full reasoning etc.
I watch Breakdown every week , last week he was calling for Nichols to be sacked as boss of NZRPA's assoc.
By the way he strongly suggests that Reiko Ioane should be 13 for Abs, so I will take it you will agree as he would certainly assess the the strengths of 13s better than you or I..
And also he was also suggesting a play off between NZ and Japan's top team, just to see if BB and Retallic could be selected for ABs?
Because I like JK and have enjoyed his company, doesn't stop me from saying he makes some strange statements.
With Jack Goodhue out for the season Reiko Ioane must be an absolute shoe in for the centre position based on this ringing endorsement by Kirwan. No one in their right mind would question an expert commentator who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams.
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

[quote="booji boy "

With Jack Goodhue out for the season Reiko Ioane must be an absolute shoe in for the centre position based on this ringing endorsement by Kirwan. No one in their right mind would question an expert commentator who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams.
[/quote]

:lol: Yep well obviously there can be no argument at all as you say Booji. ;)
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

So just to clarify your rationale Dan 54, Ian Foster is more qualified than me when it comes to knowing the relative worth of a player, because he has international coaching experience. But John Kirwan isn't more qualified than you and Booji when it comes to knowing the relative worth of a player, despite his international coaching experience?
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Ali's Choice wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:26 pm So just to clarify your rationale Dan 54, Ian Foster is more qualified than me when it comes to knowing the relative worth of a player, because he has international coaching experience. But John Kirwan isn't more qualified than you and Booji when it comes to knowing the relative worth of a player, despite his international coaching experience?
Just to clarify my position ,,yes I do believe that Foster is more qualified than any of us in knowing the relative worth of players he wants to play the style of game he and other coaches want. Not saying they right, but they sure as shit more qualified than any of us. Just as Razor would be if he was coach atc etc.And you continually prove yourself completely stupid and a liar with these posts, these are the comments I have made on JK's ability etc as a selector, on this thread'
(But actually, no I don't think I am more qualified to decide on whether TJPs worth than JK, and never would.
Read what I said, not that he was wrong , but he makes some awful strange comments at times, he keeps making comments without giving full reasoning etc)

(I wouldn't in anyway say that, I would never doubt his ability as a coach, I have said and always will that noone on here has any idea of the requirements that the countries.teams etc were or are looking for when they appoint coaches. And although I think JK makes some odd statements, as AC says he is far more qualified than anyone here to decide who and what makes a good rugby player. My only thing with him is he makes starnge and contradictary comments on tv as he seems to like being the one on panel that makes the more controversial comments.)

Please tell me where I said JK doesn't know the realtive worth of a player, I was actually agreeing with you he knows more than anyone on this forum! I also pointed out JK never said TJP wasn't good enough merely to old at 29.
I eagerly await your reply to see what you will try and twist this time.
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:14 pm

With Jack Goodhue out for the season Reiko Ioane must be an absolute shoe in for the centre position based on this ringing endorsement by Kirwan. No one in their right mind would question an expert commentator who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams.
Yep AC will no doubt retract his post he made saying PUJ was his choice ahead of Ioane now that JK has told him who is better ;)
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Dan54. wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:06 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:14 pm

With Jack Goodhue out for the season Reiko Ioane must be an absolute shoe in for the centre position based on this ringing endorsement by Kirwan. No one in their right mind would question an expert commentator who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams.
Yep AC will no doubt retract his post he made saying PUJ was his choice ahead of Ioane now that JK has told him who is better ;)
Dumb comment. I think PUJ is a better 13 than Ioane. Unlike you, I respect Kirwan's opinion, but I don't agree with it.

You demand that we all worship everything that Ian Foster says or does, but it's apparent you have no respect for any other professional coaches or former coaches. You're the consummate NZR company man and stooge :thumbup:
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:13 am
Dan54. wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:06 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:14 pm

With Jack Goodhue out for the season Reiko Ioane must be an absolute shoe in for the centre position based on this ringing endorsement by Kirwan. No one in their right mind would question an expert commentator who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams.
Yep AC will no doubt retract his post he made saying PUJ was his choice ahead of Ioane now that JK has told him who is better ;)
Dumb comment. I think PUJ is a better 13 than Ioane. Unlike you, I respect Kirwan's opinion, but I don't agree with it.

You demand that we all worship everything that Ian Foster says or does, but it's apparent you have no respect for any other professional coaches or former coaches. You're the consummate NZR company man and stooge :thumbup:
:lol: x(
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Dan54. wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:05 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:13 am
Dan54. wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:06 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:14 pm

With Jack Goodhue out for the season Reiko Ioane must be an absolute shoe in for the centre position based on this ringing endorsement by Kirwan. No one in their right mind would question an expert commentator who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams.
Yep AC will no doubt retract his post he made saying PUJ was his choice ahead of Ioane now that JK has told him who is better ;)
Dumb comment. I think PUJ is a better 13 than Ioane. Unlike you, I respect Kirwan's opinion, but I don't agree with it.

You demand that we all worship everything that Ian Foster says or does, but it's apparent you have no respect for any other professional coaches or former coaches. You're the consummate NZR company man and stooge :thumbup:
:lol: x(
:lol:
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:07 am
Dan54. wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:05 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:13 am
Dan54. wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:06 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:14 pm

With Jack Goodhue out for the season Reiko Ioane must be an absolute shoe in for the centre position based on this ringing endorsement by Kirwan. No one in their right mind would question an expert commentator who was a professional coach for over 15 years and has been head coach of two international teams.
Yep AC will no doubt retract his post he made saying PUJ was his choice ahead of Ioane now that JK has told him who is better ;)
Dumb comment. I think PUJ is a better 13 than Ioane. Unlike you, I respect Kirwan's opinion, but I don't agree with it.

You demand that we all worship everything that Ian Foster says or does, but it's apparent you have no respect for any other professional coaches or former coaches. You're the consummate company man and stooge :thumbup:
:lol: x(
:lol:
Actually you almost right, I probably am the consumate company man, I had to be, I worked for my own company, you want to try it sometime , you know having to make decisions to not make yourself popular, but what you believe is the best for the company. As you can see I also respect JK's opinion and what he has done,like I do all coaches etc. You see I also call it being a team man, and that's why I love rugby, the ultimate team game!
User avatar
kiwigreg369
Posts: 5850
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Frizzel played well again.
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Dan54. wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
The thing about Frizell is that he's a confidence player. When he feels confident and knows his role, he plays really well. The problem for AB fans is that Frizell has never been confident at international level. I blame Ian Foster, who has been part of the AB selection team which is constantly mixing and matching payers at blindside flanker. No-one has been given an opportunity to grow in confidence in the AB no.6 jersey since the retirement of Jerome Kaino. Foster needs to have the courage to tell someone that they are his first choice 6 and pick them in that position for every test up until the next RWC.
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:13 am
Dan54. wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
The thing about Frizell is that he's a confidence player. When he feels confident and knows his role, he plays really well. The problem for AB fans is that Frizell has never been confident at international level. I blame Ian Foster, who has been part of the AB selection team which is constantly mixing and matching payers at blindside flanker. No-one has been given an opportunity to grow in confidence in the AB no.6 jersey since the retirement of Jerome Kaino. Foster needs to have the courage to tell someone that they are his first choice 6 and pick them in that position for every test up until the next RWC.
Yep could be that, but also wonder if he just maturing into the position. he playing better at super level this year too. Regardless I hope he carries on, think he got what we want as a 6.

Anyway time to go to rugby, club playing away today!
User avatar
UncleFB
Posts: 13755
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dan54. wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
The Tongan was on fire last night.

He needs to show he can translate that form to international level though which he has been unable to do so far. Hopefully this is his breakout year in that respect.

He’s had multiple chances at int level without fully looking the goods, Akira has had barely any and he immediately looked the goods. Shannon needs to look the goods this year.
User avatar
Monkey Magic
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:04 am
Dan54. wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
The Tongan was on fire last night.

He needs to show he can translate that form to international level though which he has been unable to do so far. Hopefully this is his breakout year in that respect.

He’s had multiple chances at int level without fully looking the goods, Akira has had barely any and he immediately looked the goods. Shannon needs to look the goods this year.
With Frizzell at 6, means our 8 will need to be a top lineout target.

Almost lucky Cane is out and ardie will (hopefully) be at 7 as think running a Cane, savea, Frizzell trio would be too unbalanced but also what foster would likely select. With no Cane it gives a chance for Frizzell and someone at 8 to establish themsleves

Edit to add I think any of Sotutu, Jacobson or Grace could be 8 if given a decent run of games with potentially grace being the best long term prospect
deverix
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:30 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by deverix »

Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:10 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:04 am
Dan54. wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
The Tongan was on fire last night.

He needs to show he can translate that form to international level though which he has been unable to do so far. Hopefully this is his breakout year in that respect.

He’s had multiple chances at int level without fully looking the goods, Akira has had barely any and he immediately looked the goods. Shannon needs to look the goods this year.
With Frizzell at 6, means our 8 will need to be a top lineout target.

Almost lucky Cane is out and ardie will (hopefully) be at 7 as think running a Cane, savea, Frizzell trio would be too unbalanced but also what foster would likely select. With no Cane it gives a chance for Frizzell and someone at 8 to establish themsleves

Edit to add I think any of Sotutu, Jacobson or Grace could be 8 if given a decent run of games with potentially grace being the best long term prospect
Grace isn't nearly good enough yet, he shouldn't even be in the conversation. Ethan Blackadder has been 5x better for the Saders this year.
Dan54.
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

[quote="Monkey Magic " post_.


With Frizzell at 6, means our 8 will need to be a top lineout target.

Almost lucky Cane is out and ardie will (hopefully) be at 7 as think running a Cane, savea, Frizzell trio would be too unbalanced but also what foster would likely select. With no Cane it gives a chance for Frizzell and someone at 8 to establish themsleves

Edit to add I think any of Sotutu, Jacobson or Grace could be 8 if given a decent run of games with potentially grace being the best long term prospect
[/quote]
I thought Frizell was a bloody good target in lineout, usually wins a fair bit of ball.
User avatar
Peteray
Posts: 2112
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Peteray »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:13 am
Dan54. wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
The thing about Frizell is that he's a confidence player. When he feels confident and knows his role, he plays really well. The problem for AB fans is that Frizell has never been confident at international level. I blame Ian Foster, who has been part of the AB selection team which is constantly mixing and matching payers at blindside flanker. No-one has been given an opportunity to grow in confidence in the AB no.6 jersey since the retirement of Jerome Kaino. Foster needs to have the courage to tell someone that they are his first choice 6 and pick them in that position for every test up until the next RWC.
Totally agree about Frizzell, he is playing with real confidence. By the bt, I recall seeing Kaino play for the Babas at Twickenham, at 7, and jeez didn't he look for all the world like an excitement machine. You would never have guessed that for much of the next 10 years he would be the best 6 in the world.
les@mooloolaba
Posts: 2143
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by les@mooloolaba »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:13 am
Dan54. wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:51 pm Frizzel played well again.
he sure made a statement last night, especially o the Akira vs him. I get the feeling he getting better each year, seems to understand his role even more I think.
The thing about Frizell is that he's a confidence player. When he feels confident and knows his role, he plays really well. The problem for AB fans is that Frizell has never been confident at international level. I blame Ian Foster, who has been part of the AB selection team which is constantly mixing and matching payers at blindside flanker. No-one has been given an opportunity to grow in confidence in the AB no.6 jersey since the retirement of Jerome Kaino. Foster needs to have the courage to tell someone that they are his first choice 6 and pick them in that position for every test up until the next RWC.
You could be right AC. I didnt see Friday nights game, but in previous games Frizzel has become more consistent. There is really no one else who is upowith him at 6 at the moment. Maybe he is finally maturing?
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Peteray wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:48 pm Totally agree about Frizzell, he is playing with real confidence. By the bt, I recall seeing Kaino play for the Babas at Twickenham, at 7, and jeez didn't he look for all the world like an excitement machine. You would never have guessed that for much of the next 10 years he would be the best 6 in the world.
Tbh I think he was better last year in SR Aotearoa. He's great at this level. Now we need Super Coach Ian Foster to bring the best out of him at the next level.
User avatar
Peteray
Posts: 2112
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Peteray »

Do we have a date yet for the first squad naming?
User avatar
kiwigreg369
Posts: 5850
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:48 am Do we have a date yet for the first squad naming?
No dates on tests so don’t think so.

More broadly we need to see players against other teams (Trans Tasman) and in more games to evaluate as well eg how well will either Ioane’s go against the Reds or Brumbies.

And on some players eg Jacobson he’s got to get matches in without injury/concussion.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:48 am Do we have a date yet for the first squad naming?
Nope. As KG said, we still don't even have confirmed dates for tests. The All Blacks official website has no 2021 fixtures listed. I know there is uncertainty with the pandemic but I would have hoped NZR had fleshed out the details about the Italian and Fijian tests, and then the Rugby Championship. They've had a long time to organise these games.
User avatar
Peteray
Posts: 2112
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Peteray »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:59 am
Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:48 am Do we have a date yet for the first squad naming?
Nope. As KG said, we still don't even have confirmed dates for tests. The All Blacks official website has no 2021 fixtures listed. I know there is uncertainty with the pandemic but I would have hoped NZR had fleshed out the details about the Italian and Fijian tests, and then the Rugby Championship. They've had a long time to organise these games.
So we look to have some genuine options unless further injuries occur, I think the squad will come from these, with my XV in bold, and development players with a (D). I think if we are going to have a lot of tests, we should have a lot of players, hence the 52:
15: J Barrett, D McKenzie, W Jordan*, J Ioane*
14: G Bridge, C Clarke, J Nareki, R Ioane*
13: P Umaga-Jensen, D Lienert-Brown,* R Ioane, L Faingaanuku (D)
12: N Laumape: D Leinert-Brown, D Havili,
11: S Reece, W Jordan,
10: R Mounga, B Barrett, M Hunt, J Ioane
9: A Smith, B Weber, TJ Perenara, T Tiroirangi, B Hall
8: L Jacobsen*, H Sotutu
7: D Papalii, L Boshier, B Harmon
6: S Frizzell, L Jacobsen, T Robinson, T Sanders, E Blackadder, C Grace
4/5: S Whitelock, B Retallick, S Barrett, P Tuipolotu, P Parkinson, T Vaii, M Selby-Rickett (D), J Dickson, S Darry (D)
1 and 3: N Laulala J Moody, G Bower, A Ta'avao, T Lomax, A Johnstone, O Tuungafaasi, K Tuinukuafe, E de Groot (D)
2: C Taylor, D Coles, A Dixon,
Magpie26
Posts: 2490
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Magpie26 »

Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:04 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:59 am
Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:48 am Do we have a date yet for the first squad naming?
Nope. As KG said, we still don't even have confirmed dates for tests. The All Blacks official website has no 2021 fixtures listed. I know there is uncertainty with the pandemic but I would have hoped NZR had fleshed out the details about the Italian and Fijian tests, and then the Rugby Championship. They've had a long time to organise these games.
So we look to have some genuine options unless further injuries occur, I think the squad will come from these, with my XV in bold, and development players with a (D). I think if we are going to have a lot of tests, we should have a lot of players, hence the 52:
15: J Barrett, D McKenzie, W Jordan*, J Ioane*
14: G Bridge, C Clarke, J Nareki, R Ioane*
13: P Umaga-Jensen, D Lienert-Brown,* R Ioane, L Faingaanuku (D)
12: N Laumape: D Leinert-Brown, D Havili,
11: S Reece, W Jordan,
10: R Mounga, B Barrett, M Hunt, J Ioane
9: A Smith, B Weber, TJ Perenara, T Tiroirangi, B Hall
8: L Jacobsen*, H Sotutu
7: D Papalii, L Boshier, B Harmon
6: S Frizzell, L Jacobsen, T Robinson, T Sanders, E Blackadder, C Grace
4/5: S Whitelock, B Retallick, S Barrett, P Tuipolotu, P Parkinson, T Vaii, M Selby-Rickett (D), J Dickson, S Darry (D)
1 and 3: N Laulala J Moody, G Bower, A Ta'avao, T Lomax, A Johnstone, O Tuungafaasi, K Tuinukuafe, E de Groot (D)
2: C Taylor, D Coles, A Dixon,
Might want to have a look at your wing selections again 8)
User avatar
Monkey Magic
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:04 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:59 am
Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:48 am Do we have a date yet for the first squad naming?
Nope. As KG said, we still don't even have confirmed dates for tests. The All Blacks official website has no 2021 fixtures listed. I know there is uncertainty with the pandemic but I would have hoped NZR had fleshed out the details about the Italian and Fijian tests, and then the Rugby Championship. They've had a long time to organise these games.
So we look to have some genuine options unless further injuries occur, I think the squad will come from these, with my XV in bold, and development players with a (D). I think if we are going to have a lot of tests, we should have a lot of players, hence the 52:
15: J Barrett, D McKenzie, W Jordan*, J Ioane*
14: G Bridge, C Clarke, J Nareki, R Ioane*
13: P Umaga-Jensen, D Lienert-Brown,* R Ioane, L Faingaanuku (D)
12: N Laumape: D Leinert-Brown, D Havili,
11: S Reece, W Jordan,
10: R Mounga, B Barrett, M Hunt, J Ioane
9: A Smith, B Weber, TJ Perenara, T Tiroirangi, B Hall
8: L Jacobsen*, H Sotutu
7: D Papalii, L Boshier, B Harmon
6: S Frizzell, L Jacobsen, T Robinson, T Sanders, E Blackadder, C Grace
4/5: S Whitelock, B Retallick, S Barrett, P Tuipolotu, P Parkinson, T Vaii, M Selby-Rickett (D), J Dickson, S Darry (D)
1 and 3: N Laulala J Moody, G Bower, A Ta'avao, T Lomax, A Johnstone, O Tuungafaasi, K Tuinukuafe, E de Groot (D)
2: C Taylor, D Coles, A Dixon,
I hate to nitpick given how much effort has obviously gone into this post. But bulking up the midfield by throwing front rower DLB instead of ALB is a step I think even fozzie wouldn't take
User avatar
Peteray
Posts: 2112
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Peteray »

Monkey Magic wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:14 pm
Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:04 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:59 am
Peteray wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:48 am Do we have a date yet for the first squad naming?
Nope. As KG said, we still don't even have confirmed dates for tests. The All Blacks official website has no 2021 fixtures listed. I know there is uncertainty with the pandemic but I would have hoped NZR had fleshed out the details about the Italian and Fijian tests, and then the Rugby Championship. They've had a long time to organise these games.
So we look to have some genuine options unless further injuries occur, I think the squad will come from these, with my XV in bold, and development players with a (D). I think if we are going to have a lot of tests, we should have a lot of players, hence the 52:
15: J Barrett, D McKenzie, W Jordan*, J Ioane*
14: G Bridge, C Clarke, J Nareki, R Ioane*
13: P Umaga-Jensen, D Lienert-Brown,* R Ioane, L Faingaanuku (D)
12: N Laumape: D Leinert-Brown, D Havili,
11: S Reece, W Jordan,
10: R Mounga, B Barrett, M Hunt, J Ioane
9: A Smith, B Weber, TJ Perenara, T Tiroirangi, B Hall
8: L Jacobsen*, H Sotutu
7: D Papalii, L Boshier, B Harmon
6: S Frizzell, L Jacobsen, T Robinson, T Sanders, E Blackadder, C Grace
4/5: S Whitelock, B Retallick, S Barrett, P Tuipolotu, P Parkinson, T Vaii, M Selby-Rickett (D), J Dickson, S Darry (D)
1 and 3: N Laulala J Moody, G Bower, A Ta'avao, T Lomax, A Johnstone, O Tuungafaasi, K Tuinukuafe, E de Groot (D)
2: C Taylor, D Coles, A Dixon,
I hate to nitpick given how much effort has obviously gone into this post. But bulking up the midfield by throwing front rower DLB instead of ALB is a step I think even fozzie wouldn't take
:blush: God... talk about duh! Of course it should be Anton :blush:
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Damien McKenzie is making a very persuasive case for the All Black no.15 jersey. He's just playing so well. However Jordie Barrett is arguably the form 15 over the entire season. Further complexity is added to the mix when you consider that Ian Foster's favourite player, Beauden Barrett, is our incumbent 15. This selection is becoming more and more likely, IMO;

15. Damien McKenzie
14. Jordie Barrett
13.
12.
11.
10. Beauden Berrett
9.
User avatar
Muttonbirds
Posts: 2131
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 am
Location: Aotearoa

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

I feel like Jordie Barrett undoes any good Beauden Barrett does at international level.

Being a massive unit with a big boot is just not enough. Heaps of teams have that. You have to have decision making skills also which Jodie Barrett is yet to show, imo.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31738
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:43 am I feel like Jordie Barrett undoes any good Beauden Barrett does at international level.

Being a massive unit with a big boot is just not enough. Heaps of teams have that. You have to have decision making skills also which Jodie Barrett is yet to show, imo.
I respectfully disagree. If I was picking an AB team to play a test match tomorrow, Jordie Barrett would be my fullback. I wouldn't have him anywhere near the wing though. And unfortunately that's exactly where Ian 'shit for brains' Foster will pick him. He lacks the speed and finishing ability to play wing effectively at the highest level.
User avatar
Muttonbirds
Posts: 2131
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 am
Location: Aotearoa

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:46 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:43 am I feel like Jordie Barrett undoes any good Beauden Barrett does at international level.

Being a massive unit with a big boot is just not enough. Heaps of teams have that. You have to have decision making skills also which Jodie Barrett is yet to show, imo.
I respectfully disagree. If I was picking an AB team to play a test match tomorrow, Jordie Barrett would be my fullback. I wouldn't have him anywhere near the wing though. And unfortunately that's exactly where Ian 'shit for brains' Foster will pick him. He lacks the speed and finishing ability to play wing effectively at the highest level.
Yeah, he's not quick either. Mostly what I dislike about Jordie Barrett is the number of mistakes he makes. He doesn't seem to have the ability to read the game, perhaps having relied upon his size throughout his career to date.

Having said that, if you're going to base your game around a big kicker at the back then do that. But it doesn't seem to sit with the AB style, historically.

After 1999 I had hoped All Black selectors would never return to shoe-horning preferred players into unfamiliar, or less familiar positions. But they continue to do it, and it's not often worked out well.
User avatar
Flockwitt
Posts: 6784
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Flockwitt »

Agree with AC on this one. Jordie's FB, DMac is on the bench for impact and versatility in a forward heavy split. Jordie's just not the right player for an AB winger. Some players can duo the back 3 roles, Jordie can't.
User avatar
Enzedder
Posts: 20891
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: End of the road, turn right and first house on the left

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Enzedder »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:46 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:43 am I feel like Jordie Barrett undoes any good Beauden Barrett does at international level.

Being a massive unit with a big boot is just not enough. Heaps of teams have that. You have to have decision making skills also which Jodie Barrett is yet to show, imo.
I respectfully disagree. If I was picking an AB team to play a test match tomorrow, Jordie Barrett would be my fullback. I wouldn't have him anywhere near the wing though. :nod:
Totally agree. We have some excellent wings.

Start Jordie at 15 and have his brother on the bench. I am coming round to having DMac back at 15 as well.
obelixtim
Posts: 6304
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by obelixtim »

Jordie booting just about every ball he got last night tells me he should not be FB, and should never be on the wing either.
Most of those kicks were nothing kicks, and just wasted possession.
User avatar
Peteray
Posts: 2112
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Peteray »

... which probably, more than being critical of Jordie, reflects upon Jason Holland rather more. Maybe they have got sucked into the stats trap that show winning teams kicking more in the second half of SRA?
IKUR01
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:07 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by IKUR01 »

Jordie Barrett at 12. Big and dents gainlkine almost every carry. Smashes guys on d at the back when they have loads of space so imagine the physicality he will bring in closer channels. Big boot to offload the 10 and has the ability to throw the ball. Not really a threat on attack as a 15 other him smashing himself at the line. waaaay to slow for wing.
As well, gives us the go forward we just havnt had since nonu left. as good as ALB, goodhue, reiko, PUJ etc etc are, These guys just cant dent the line with brute strength. When nonu played he could! When Tuilagi plays for England they are a different team.

You're welcome
User avatar
jdogscoop
Posts: 14358
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

IKUR01 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:20 am Jordie Barrett at 12. Big and dents gainlkine almost every carry. Smashes guys on d at the back when they have loads of space so imagine the physicality he will bring in closer channels. Big boot to offload the 10 and has the ability to throw the ball. Not really a threat on attack as a 15 other him smashing himself at the line. waaaay to slow for wing.
As well, gives us the go forward we just havnt had since nonu left. as good as ALB, goodhue, reiko, PUJ etc etc are, These guys just cant dent the line with brute strength. When nonu played he could! When Tuilagi plays for England they are a different team.

You're welcome
Could we at the very least try him there in Super Rugby first?

Test rugby is not the place to trial guys in unfamiliar positions.
User avatar
Monkey Magic
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

jdogscoop wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:47 am
IKUR01 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:20 am Jordie Barrett at 12. Big and dents gainlkine almost every carry. Smashes guys on d at the back when they have loads of space so imagine the physicality he will bring in closer channels. Big boot to offload the 10 and has the ability to throw the ball. Not really a threat on attack as a 15 other him smashing himself at the line. waaaay to slow for wing.
As well, gives us the go forward we just havnt had since nonu left. as good as ALB, goodhue, reiko, PUJ etc etc are, These guys just cant dent the line with brute strength. When nonu played he could! When Tuilagi plays for England they are a different team.

You're welcome
Could we at the very least try him there in Super Rugby first?

Test rugby is not the place to trial guys in unfamiliar positions.
You're not going to make it as an all blacks coach with kind of attitude. Take a hard look at yourself, there have been at least 2 successful transitions since 1998 and they wouldn't have happened if we hadn't ruined those 20 other careers trying them out.
Post Reply