Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Midfieldmaestro
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Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

Bernard Laporte WR vice president, coached France, Toulon to a hattrick European Cups said Bakkies was his best

https://punditarena.com/rugby/eoin-hart ... yer-coach/

https://youtu.be/MR5_ARsy-bw
ZuluBoy
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by ZuluBoy »

Must be one of the best ever coaches if he could teach Bakkies anything
Very streetwise as Bakkies learned some tricks by him snd he grew more malicious in France
The headbutt. Bakkies explained the little guy was chirping too much and he Bakkies was faster than him and got pulled back by his jersey but he caught up with him 10m further on
Rugby2023
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Unfashionable choice, but not entirely surprising, Botha was a world class No.4 for many seasons.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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long standing partnership with Vic Matfield for the Bulls. Great community work he did once retired returned.

https://www.jacarandafm.com/breakfast-m ... n-farmers/
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Jeff the Bear
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
:|

AB had Brad Thorn and Jerome Kaino playing that role.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by MungoMan »

Rugby2023 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:50 pm Unfashionable choice, but not entirely surprising, Botha was a world class No.4 for many seasons.
He was one of my favourite players. I was in favour of the (then) ARU approaching SARU with a view to taking some cuttings from him.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Jerome Manning »

Willie Falloon wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:19 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
:|

AB had Brad Thorn and Jerome Kaino playing that role.
An in-form Retallick is hardly a softie either.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Willie Falloon wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:19 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
:|

AB had Brad Thorn and Jerome Kaino playing that role.
Neither Thorn or Jerome Kaino were dirty players. Certainly not in the Bakkies Botha mould. Thorn did toss once an over-weight John Smit into the air like he was a man-sized Frisbee, but from memory he wasn't even penalised for it. That was back when referees were scared of the All Blacks and did whatever Richie McCaw told them.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Jerome Manning »

I don't think Jeff's baby eating comments were meant to be taken that literally.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by openclashXX »

Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
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Jeff the Bear
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Jeff the Bear »

Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:06 am
Willie Falloon wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:19 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
:|

AB had Brad Thorn and Jerome Kaino playing that role.
Neither Thorn or Jerome Kaino were dirty players. Certainly not in the Bakkies Botha mould. Thorn did toss once an over-weight John Smit into the air like he was a man-sized Frisbee, but from memory he wasn't even penalised for it. That was back when referees were scared of the All Blacks and did whatever Richie McCaw told them.
I think you've taken 'likes the biff' a bit too literally. Yes, Botha could be a dirty bastard, but it wasn't like he spent 80 minutes of every game doing something illegal. 99% of the time he was doing his job...with that job being inflicting pain within the laws of the game.

I find it bizarre that you think that NZ don't have players like that. In fact, I'd say that Retallick has been the nearest player to Botha since his retirement. In his pomp, Retallick would hit numerous rucks in a quasi-legal manner, absolutely smashing the fudge out of anyone who was there, and inflicting damage along the way.

Because rugby players are taught not to show pain from a young age, you think it doesn't happen now at Pro level because the camera is always on them and no one is roling about on the floor...but I just don't see how you can have 120kg guys going full tilt into someone in rucks and not be doling out significant amounts of pain. It's like a boxer constantly going to the body. In the beginning it doesn't look like it's doing anything, but by the end, you can see how it has worn down the opposition.

...and that's where your bruising lock comes in. If you've got a good one, they'll go a long way to sapping the energy from the opposition over the course of a game.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
Both similar style players , enforcers with a strength based game, rather than the rangy athletic lock or seagullong clapping choker. Mentioning their colour is rancid obvious bait (I would have used the racist Afrikaans route myself...)
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:53 am I think you've taken 'likes the biff' a bit too literally. Yes, Botha could be a dirty bastard, but it wasn't like he spent 80 minutes of every game doing something illegal. 99% of the time he was doing his job...with that job being inflicting pain within the laws of the game.

I find it bizarre that you think that NZ don't have players like that. In fact, I'd say that Retallick has been the nearest player to Botha since his retirement. In his pomp, Retallick would hit numerous rucks in a quasi-legal manner, absolutely smashing the fudge out of anyone who was there, and inflicting damage along the way.

Because rugby players are taught not to show pain from a young age, you think it doesn't happen now at Pro level because the camera is always on them and no one is roling about on the floor...but I just don't see how you can have 120kg guys going full tilt into someone in rucks and not be doling out significant amounts of pain. It's like a boxer constantly going to the body. In the beginning it doesn't look like it's doing anything, but by the end, you can see how it has worn down the opposition.

...and that's where your bruising lock comes in. If you've got a good one, they'll go a long way to sapping the energy from the opposition over the course of a game.
So using your very general definition, every pro-level Rugby lock is a "baby eater"?

Tbh I agree with you that Botha was a dirty bastard who loved to engage in foul play. I just don't think such players are necessary to be successful. That's an old-school myth.
Last edited by Ali's Choice on Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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backrow wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:03 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
Both similar style players , enforcers with a strength based game, rather than the rangy athletic lock or seagullong clapping choker. Mentioning their colour is rancid obvious bait (I would have used the racist Afrikaans route myself...)
Rancid? :?
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
Etzebeth never seemed consistent enough at test level to be compared to Botha. I hear he's playing well up north at the moment, but that's still not international rugby.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Ali's Choice »

mr bungle wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
Etzebeth never seemed consistent enough at test level to be compared to Botha. I hear he's playing well up north at the moment, but that's still not international rugby.
I see them as being very different locks. Bakkies was first and foremost a tackler, cleaner and lifter. Etzebeth is a dominant lineout target who likes to run the ball occasionally. Bakkies is your classical tight lock, Etzebeth plays looser. They would have been a great combo.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by RuggaBugga »

Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
Thorn was absolutely an enforcer, they don't all have to be headbutting the back of prone halfbacks heads.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by openclashXX »

Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
yes, exactly
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Laporte loves his forwards, this goes back to his time when he was playing scrum-half behind the meanest French pack at Bordeaux-Begles.

He had some hair back then!

Image

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Midfieldmaestro
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Midfieldmaestro »

Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:16 am
mr bungle wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed.
Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
Etzebeth never seemed consistent enough at test level to be compared to Botha. I hear he's playing well up north at the moment, but that's still not international rugby.
I see them as being very different locks. Bakkies was first and foremost a tackler, cleaner and lifter. Etzebeth is a dominant lineout target who likes to run the ball occasionally. Bakkies is your classical tight lock, Etzebeth plays looser. They would have been a great combo.
Etzebeth can tackle, both he and Bakkies are hard runners

https://youtu.be/Nbmuqzn0-qA
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Whatever »

Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
Botha was also banned for some weeks for eye-gouging in an international, and I think there were allegations of biting from the Wallabies in one test. That's not 'enforcer', more cheapshot.
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TheFrog
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by TheFrog »

There was a time, it was very much the culture in rugby. I remember Toulouse hiring Trevor Brennan specifically because they had identified they needed an enforcer.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Whatever »

TheFrog wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:14 pm There was a time, it was very much the culture in rugby. I remember Toulouse hiring Trevor Brennan specifically because they had identified they needed an enforcer.
...particularly for crowd control.
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Whatever wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:29 pm
TheFrog wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:14 pm There was a time, it was very much the culture in rugby. I remember Toulouse hiring Trevor Brennan specifically because they had identified they needed an enforcer.
...particularly for crowd control.
Very much warranted in France.

(Did you see my post on the Clermont Toulouse thread? I bumped on a guy with a Toulouse rugby shirt in Rock Creek Park this WE. So many Toulousans.)
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Whatever »

TheFrog wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:32 pm
Whatever wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:29 pm
TheFrog wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:14 pm There was a time, it was very much the culture in rugby. I remember Toulouse hiring Trevor Brennan specifically because they had identified they needed an enforcer.
...particularly for crowd control.
Very much warranted in France.

(Did you see my post on the Clermont Toulouse thread? I bumped on a guy with a Toulouse rugby shirt in Rock Creek Park this WE. So many Toulousans.)
Daniel? I'm on spoiler alert while I catch up on the various matches north and south from the weekend.

It was Brennan that went into a crowd to attack a spectator, was that in France?
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Post by TheFrog »

Whatever wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:36 pm
TheFrog wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:32 pm
Whatever wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:29 pm
TheFrog wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:14 pm There was a time, it was very much the culture in rugby. I remember Toulouse hiring Trevor Brennan specifically because they had identified they needed an enforcer.
...particularly for crowd control.
Very much warranted in France.

(Did you see my post on the Clermont Toulouse thread? I bumped on a guy with a Toulouse rugby shirt in Rock Creek Park this WE. So many Toulousans.)
Daniel? I'm on spoiler alert while I catch up on the various matches north and south from the weekend.

It was Brennan that went into a crowd to attack a spectator, was that in France?
Jean-François. Retired embassy staffer.

Yeah. Brennan sorted out an Ulster fan old style during a Champions Cup game. He played for Toulouse then.
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One of my favorite smart enforcer type of player was Paul O'Connell.

He was a player nobody liked to play against but knew exactly how to stay on the right side of the law.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
Brad Thorn in 2011 and Brodie Retallick in 2015. It just so happens that Retallick can also do the fancy stuff so you forget that he's a thug.

Don't get me wrong - best lock I've seen.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by ZuluBoy »

Midfieldmaestro wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:03 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:16 am
mr bungle wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am

Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
Etzebeth never seemed consistent enough at test level to be compared to Botha. I hear he's playing well up north at the moment, but that's still not international rugby.
I see them as being very different locks. Bakkies was first and foremost a tackler, cleaner and lifter. Etzebeth is a dominant lineout target who likes to run the ball occasionally. Bakkies is your classical tight lock, Etzebeth plays looser. They would have been a great combo.
Etzebeth can tackle, both he and Bakkies are hard runners

https://youtu.be/Nbmuqzn0-qA
The first action clip in your video shows he is no different than Bakkies in the tackling dept. only a slightly different technique. The ball carrier was a tad unlucky he ran into Etzebeth.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Willie Falloon »

Midfieldmaestro wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:03 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:16 am
mr bungle wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am
openclashXX wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:32 am

Etzebeth is the heir to Bakkies and the Boks just won a RWC with him at lock
In what way is Etzebeth the "heir" to Botha? Is it because they both play lock? Both white?
Etzebeth never seemed consistent enough at test level to be compared to Botha. I hear he's playing well up north at the moment, but that's still not international rugby.
I see them as being very different locks. Bakkies was first and foremost a tackler, cleaner and lifter. Etzebeth is a dominant lineout target who likes to run the ball occasionally. Bakkies is your classical tight lock, Etzebeth plays looser. They would have been a great combo.
Etzebeth can tackle, both he and Bakkies are hard runners

https://youtu.be/Nbmuqzn0-qA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=811T5D1aFBQ
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

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Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:06 am
Willie Falloon wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:19 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
:|

AB had Brad Thorn and Jerome Kaino playing that role.
Neither Thorn or Jerome Kaino were dirty players. Certainly not in the Bakkies Botha mould. Thorn did toss once an over-weight John Smit into the air like he was a man-sized Frisbee, but from memory he wasn't even penalised for it. That was back when referees were scared of the All Blacks and did whatever Richie McCaw told them.
John Smit did get his revenge by smash tackling the ball out of Thorn from a quick throw in.
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Re: Laporte - Best Player ever I have coached

Post by Magpie26 »

RuggaBugga wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:01 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:41 am
Jeff the Bear wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:09 am That Baby Eating lock position is the hardest one to fill in rugby. Makes a massive difference to a team having someone of that size going about creaming rucks on their own and absolutely loving the biff.
I think the days of the enforcer lock are long gone. If they ever existed. NZ won RWC's in 2011 and 2015 without one, and the Crusaders have won 11 Super Rugby titles without such a player. Bakkies was effective because he was a great Rugby player, not because he absolutely loved the biff. In fact I never saw him fight, his penchant was for off the ball foul play against halfbacks.
Thorn was absolutely an enforcer, they don't all have to be headbutting the back of prone halfbacks heads.
Totally agree, one of the hardest guys I think I have ever seen play rugby but unlike any of the 'hard' guys he was never really a cheap shot merchant.
Bakkies was a very good lock but there is no doubt he was always looking for that little bit extra.
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