"I thought it was my taser" Shooting

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Jensrsa
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"I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Jensrsa »

Daunte Wright shooting: Minnesota police chief says officer meant to draw Taser, not gun in fatal Brooklyn Center shooting
https://abc7chicago.com/police-minnesot ... /10509339/
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DOB
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by DOB »

The Taser defense was used in the Oscar Grant shooting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... _confusion

Given that, why do they issue Tasers to cops that can be so easily confused with firearms? It isn't even the first time it's happened in Minnesota;
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/inv ... 8cf6bc5131

And I don't know what Taser she had on her, but...
https://twitter.com/voteblue77/status/1 ... 8220824581
ovalball
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by ovalball »

Jensrsa wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:00 am
Daunte Wright shooting: Minnesota police chief says officer meant to draw Taser, not gun in fatal Brooklyn Center shooting
https://abc7chicago.com/police-minnesot ... /10509339/
I've never shot a handgun or a taser - but I'm very surprised that a trained officer could mistake one for the other :shock: :((
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Glaston »

So she turned off the safety on the gun and still thought it was a taser.

Weight difference too.
Positioning on belt.
Gun on main side, taser on off side
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msp.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by msp. »

Seems like a mistake looking at the video of the incident and her reaction.

If American society wants guns and issues them to police they have to accept that mistake will happen and people will be shot.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by RuggaBugga »

msp. wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:03 am Seems like a mistake looking at the video of the incident and her reaction.

If American society wants guns and issues them to police they have to accept that mistake will happen and people will be shot.
Well this really. The alternative is to believe the individual is a murderous psychopath.
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feckwanker
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by feckwanker »

Glaston wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:19 am So she turned off the safety on the gun and still thought it was a taser.

Weight difference too.
Positioning on belt.
Gun on main side, taser on off side
Yep, that dog just ain't gonna hunt.
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RuggaBugga
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by RuggaBugga »

feckwanker wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:15 am
Glaston wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:19 am So she turned off the safety on the gun and still thought it was a taser.

Weight difference too.
Positioning on belt.
Gun on main side, taser on off side
Yep, that dog just ain't gonna hunt.
Muscle memory, fear, stress? Who knows.

It's clearly an accident and the issue is systematic as opposed to her murdering someone in cold blood.

The miracle for me is that more of this kind of shit doesn't happen given the sheer prevalence of potentially aggrevating factors in police interactions with the public...

...and yes looney brigade I'd obviously include situations where the police are the victims.... something something build a wall, go Trump, gurn gurn
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Mick Mannock »

Ugly woman wades in with ugly Tweet

https://twitter.com/RashidaTlaib/status ... 3997534216
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Anonymous 1
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Glaston wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:19 am So she turned off the safety on the gun and still thought it was a taser.

Weight difference too.
Positioning on belt.
Gun on main side, taser on off side
All those things point to why its such a rare fuckup She thought it was her taser
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msp.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by msp. »

Mick Mannock wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:27 pm Ugly woman wades in with ugly Tweet

https://twitter.com/RashidaTlaib/status ... 3997534216
This is part of the issue. politicians on both sides like to throw petrol on the fire if it can gain them political capital.

Getting rid of the police, because that will help society..
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by mr flaps »

Glaston wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:19 am So she turned off the safety on the gun and still thought it was a taser.

Weight difference too.
Positioning on belt.
Gun on main side, taser on off side
Most people don’t carry guns with manual safety’s.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by madman »

Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by BBB »

madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Mick Mannock »

madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
A swastika tattoo, and jackboots.






Not serious. Others on here might be.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by madman »

BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by DOB »

madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
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madman
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by madman »

DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
But he clearly tried to run and escape.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by BBB »

Just read something else where Brooklyn Centre police Chief Tim Gannon says “He was pulled over for having an expired registration on the vehicle (so that’s “reasonable suspicion”covered for the initial stop,I guess).
“When the officer went over,an item was spotted hanging from the rear view mirror.”
It was after that,Gannon said,that the officers discovered a “Gross misdemeanour warrant” for Wrights arrest had been issued.

Be interesting to know what the charges were that he was meant to appear in court for and might be bad enough to decide to run.

It’ll come out soon enough.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by piquant »

madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
But he clearly tried to run and escape.
So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by mr flaps »

piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm

He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
But he clearly tried to run and escape.
So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
So the cops should ignore an outstanding warrant at a traffic stop?
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by madman »

piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm

He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
But he clearly tried to run and escape.
So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
Have you seen the video of the incident? it is on the BBC website. obviously not from your comment.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by piquant »

mr flaps wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:19 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
But he clearly tried to run and escape.
So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
So the cops should ignore an outstanding warrant at a traffic stop?
No. Send someone to arrest him if he flees, and add resisting arrest to the charges.

You don't have to shoot at someone attempting to flee, unless perhaps you know them to be a bit of a Hannibal Lecter. Shooting someone for being an idiot, even a criminal idiot, isn't helpful.

Some of this is on the officer, some on the calibre and training of officers, and some on the communities that the police find themselves operating in knowing they face significant threat.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by piquant »

madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
But he clearly tried to run and escape.
So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
Have you seen the video of the incident? it is on the BBC website. obviously not from your comment.
Nope, so I went and looked, and it doesn't show what happened. Though one can hear the 'taser, taser, taser' line
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Anonymous 1 »

piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:03 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
But he clearly tried to run and escape.
So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
Have you seen the video of the incident? it is on the BBC website. obviously not from your comment.
Nope, so I went and looked, and it doesn't show what happened. Though one can hear the 'taser, taser, taser' line
you need to watch it. No way you tell cops in that situation to just let him go.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by BBB »

Cop who did the shooting is a 48 year old who’s been in the police force for 26 years.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Anonymous 1 »

BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:47 pm Cop who did the shooting is a 48 year old who’s been in the police force for 26 years.
And we all know it will be accepted that she made a mistake. Its probably going to cost her job 4 years short of her 30 but it cost some fool his life.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by BBB »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:58 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:47 pm Cop who did the shooting is a 48 year old who’s been in the police force for 26 years.
And we all know it will be accepted that she made a mistake. Its probably going to cost her job 4 years short of her 30 but it cost some fool his life.
She has just announced her resignation and so has her Chief Tim Gannon.
Last edited by BBB on Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by fonzeee »

DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
See, these are the claims that destroy any possibility for progress on this issue, because you will have literally tens of millions of white people who will hear something like this and roll their eyes, as they can easily reflect back on their own experiences of being pulled over for bullshit or trivial reasons (my personal favorite is "you pulled out of that space a little too fast" -- which apparently entitled her to follow me to my house two blocks and a right turn away and accost me as I exited my car). I have been pulled over and ticketed for the exact reason this guy was pulled over actually (expired registration), which isn't really bullshit anyway.

The warrant was for carrying a weapon without a permit and for fleeing from the police.

Once again the real issue here is either training, shoddy personnel, or both.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Anonymous 1 »

BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:17 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:58 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:47 pm Cop who did the shooting is a 48 year old who’s been in the police force for 26 years.
And we all know it will be accepted that she made a mistake. Its probably going to cost her job 4 years short of her 30 but it cost some fool his life.
She has just announced her resignation and so has her Chief Tim Gannon.
Not sure but I think by resigning no disciplinary she preserves her pension.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by MrDominator »

She's either an incredible actor or it was a mistake.

Might be worth asking why it's so often African-American chappies who so often find themselves in encounters with the police?
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by piquant »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:46 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:03 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm

But he clearly tried to run and escape.
So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
Have you seen the video of the incident? it is on the BBC website. obviously not from your comment.
Nope, so I went and looked, and it doesn't show what happened. Though one can hear the 'taser, taser, taser' line
you need to watch it. No way you tell cops in that situation to just let him go.

There is a vast gulf between just letting him go and shooting him, even shooting him with a less lethal taser. The job is to protect and serve, and that can be managed over a 24 hour period of tracking him down and arresting him if needs be, and adding the charge of resisting arrest, and adding another charge belies the absurdity of saying not hooting him can be equated to just letting him go, they don't need to try and solve the situation in 24 seconds with a Hail Mary play. Such a quick escalation to shooting someone who wasn't looking like they were a danger to someone else simply shouldn't be the thought process.

I suspect they wouldn't even have needed 24 hours to track him down, they might have been able to follow him and apprehend minutes down the road, though then there's a question around is a high speed chase appropriate had he really tried to flee.

I suppose if his outstanding warrant is for something horrendously serious I might think about it a little differently, though you'd like to think were that the case he would already have been locked up ahead of his court case

I'm also fwiw not that perturbed for the individual involved, if you don't do what the police say I broadly think what happens next is your own sodding problem. But, there is a big problem when it comes to the wider societal take and how you police with consent, and they need to take a much greater interest in that, if for no other reason that it'd make their own jobs easier, though there are other reasons too
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by Anonymous 1 »

DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
The air freshener hanging from the mirror is a police tactic when looking for an excuse to pull someone. Ive seen it several times.

PLEASE LOOK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NqZnm7wQeg
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by BBB »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:50 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:17 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:58 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:47 pm Cop who did the shooting is a 48 year old who’s been in the police force for 26 years.
And we all know it will be accepted that she made a mistake. Its probably going to cost her job 4 years short of her 30 but it cost some fool his life.
She has just announced her resignation and so has her Chief Tim Gannon.
Not sure but I think by resigning no disciplinary she preserves her pension.
Yeah.

That’s seems to be what people are saying.

Apparently she was quite high up in the police union as well,so she probably knows what she’s doing.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

Post by DOB »

fonzeee wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:21 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
See, these are the claims that destroy any possibility for progress on this issue, because you will have literally tens of millions of white people who will hear something like this and roll their eyes, as they can easily reflect back on their own experiences of being pulled over for bullshit or trivial reasons (my personal favorite is "you pulled out of that space a little too fast" -- which apparently entitled her to follow me to my house two blocks and a right turn away and accost me as I exited my car). I have been pulled over and ticketed for the exact reason this guy was pulled over actually (expired registration), which isn't really bullshit anyway.

The warrant was for carrying a weapon without a permit and for fleeing from the police.

Once again the real issue here is either training, shoddy personnel, or both.
I've had a Leinster air freshener dangling from my mirror since probably 2011-ish and never been stopped for it.

Yes, we've all have frivolous stops (though granted, I've had a couple of valid ones) but the stats that get out there do seem to bear out the black community's concern about being targeted.

And where were the NRA to defend him when he was arrested for exercising his 2A rights? And otherwise, he was being arrested for resisting arrest?

The immediate issue is training/personnel, but there is a larger issue where firearm violence is so prevalent in a society, that officers of the peace must/feel that they must/are trained to need to also carry firearms to protect themselves and others in the course of their line of duty. Other countries have unarmed police forces, and unarmed (or at least, less-armed) citizenry, and the resulting balance is lower rates of firearm violence, even if crime in general is not lower.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

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Inside 100 million police traffic stops: New evidence of racial bias

Stanford researchers found that black and Latino drivers were stopped more often than white drivers, based on less evidence of wrongdoing

Three years ago, an unmarked police car tailed Richard Jackson into an alley behind his home on Chicago's West Side and pulled him over. Jackson, a black Navy veteran, had become used to being stopped by police for what he believed was no reason since returning to Illinois from the military in 2012.

But this time was different. After an officer ran his driver's license, then said he was free to go, Jackson pointedly asked what he had done wrong. The officer, who is white, said Jackson had cut him off, which Jackson denied. The officer then issued Jackson citations for failing to yield at a left turn and stop sign, which Jackson also denied.

Although the officer did not allude to Jackson's race, the veteran believed that was why he was stopped. He successfully fought the two citations and filed a complaint with the Chicago police.

"With this racial profiling — I'm not just going to roll over," Jackson, 36, said.

The Chicago police did not respond to a request for comment.

Jackson's encounter with the Chicago police reflects the experiences of people of color across the country, who describe being stopped and searched by officers without a good reason. Like Jackson, many believe their race played a role.

Now, Stanford University researchers have compiled the most comprehensive evidence to date suggesting there is a pattern of racial disparities in traffic stops. The researchers provided NBC News with the traffic-stop data — the largest such dataset ever collected — which points to pervasive inequality in how police decide to stop and search white and minority drivers.

Using information obtained through public record requests, the Stanford Open Policing Project examined almost 100 million traffic stops conducted from 2011 to 2017 across 21 state patrol agencies, including California, Illinois, New York and Texas, and 29 municipal police departments, including New Orleans, Philadelphia, San Francisco and St. Paul, Minnesota.

The results show that police stopped and searched black and Latino drivers on the basis of less evidence than used in stopping white drivers, who are searched less often but are more likely to be found with illegal items. The study does not set out to conclude whether officers knowingly engaged in racial discrimination, but uses a more nuanced analysis of traffic stop data to infer that race is a factor when people are pulled over — and that it's occuring across the country.

"Because of this analysis, we're able to get to that anecdotal story to say this is really happening," said Sharad Goel, an assistant professor in management science and engineering at Stanford and a co-author of the study.

Police pull over about 20 million drivers across the United States each year, according to researchers. And while the extreme cases grab the spotlight, such as the fatal police shootings after traffic stops of Walter Scott in South Carolina, Samuel DuBose in Cincinnati and Philando Castile in suburban Minneapolis — all black men — most end without anyone getting hurt. Still, for drivers of color who are stopped by police, the suspicion that racial bias played a role can linger.

"There's no longer the idea of Officer Friendly, who might help you understand why they pulled you over. Now, it's about using racial profiling to control people and place fear in them," said David Lowery, founder of the Living & Driving While Black Foundation in Chicago, an advocacy group calling for an end to racial profiling.

"Then, you've got money tied up into this," he added. "Who can write the most tickets? Who can put the most people in jail and into the court system? It’s no longer about a simple traffic stop for safety."

The Stanford study sliced the data in three distinct ways to search for evidence of racial bias:

Police stops: A "veil of darkness" test was done to analyze whether black drivers are being pulled over at a higher rate during the day than at night, when officers would have a harder time distinguishing race from a distance. After adjusting for the variation in sunset times across the year, researchers found a 5 to 10 percent drop in the share of stopped drivers after sunset who are black, suggesting black drivers are being racially profiled during the day.
Police searches: Researchers reviewed the rate at which drivers were searched and the likelihood that those searches turned up illegal drugs and guns. There was evidence that the bar for searching black and Latino drivers is lower than that for white drivers, even though white drivers were more likely to have contraband. Across states, contraband was found in 36 percent of searches of white drivers, compared to 32 percent for black drivers and 26 percent for Latinos.
Impact of marijuana legalization: After the legalization of recreational marijuana in Colorado and Washington state, there has been a reduction in searches of both white and minority drivers. But the search rate remains twice as high for minorities, a trend also noted in a 2017 Stanford study.
Stanford's research is based on numbers provided by state and city agencies, but not all police departments track that data or are willing to release it. While the majority of states responded to the Stanford group's public records requests and offered at least some traffic stop data, four states said they didn't have information on drivers' race and 15 failed to say whether they collect any data at all.

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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

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fonzeee wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:21 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm
BBB wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:56 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:39 pm Why did he resist arrest when being arrested and handcuffed and try and flee ? If all he had done wrong is have an air freshener hanging up?

Am i missing something ?
He apparently had a warrant out on him for failing to appear in court.

So it was a legitimate arrest that he resisted and tried to flee, the police shot him (by mistake whilst attempting to Taser him), and yet he is 100% innocent for what occurred, and the police officer is 100% in the wrong and racist.
He was a black man who was pulled over for having too much stuff hanging from his rear view mirror. The suggestion is that a white person wouldn't even have been pulled over in the first place, warrants or no.

Plus we haven't heard yet what the warrants were for; or if the warrant was for failure-to-appear as mentioned above, what he was due to appear for. Was he due to appear for resisting arrest? After being previously pulled over for having too many air fresheners?
See, these are the claims that destroy any possibility for progress on this issue, because you will have literally tens of millions of white people who will hear something like this and roll their eyes, as they can easily reflect back on their own experiences of being pulled over for bullshit or trivial reasons (my personal favorite is "you pulled out of that space a little too fast" -- which apparently entitled her to follow me to my house two blocks and a right turn away and accost me as I exited my car). I have been pulled over and ticketed for the exact reason this guy was pulled over actually (expired registration), which isn't really bullshit anyway.

The warrant was for carrying a weapon without a permit and for fleeing from the police.

Once again the real issue here is either training, shoddy personnel, or both.
Lots of my white friends have had an unpleasant encounter or two with the police in their youth. The difference is the sheer numbers compared to me and Ive never been arrested for a criminal offence. Yet Ive been stopped and searched countless times. Strip searched. Had the shit kicked out of me at 15 and my pocket money taken so i had to walk home. I always stayed polite because i knew what they were trying to do.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

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piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:54 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:46 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:03 pm
madman wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm

So maybe send someone to arrest him, not shoot him, and by all means add charges for failing to appear and resisting arrest. I don't know if the mistake idea is credible or not, but either way it seems unlikely escalating to tasering him was appropriate even if that was the intent.
Have you seen the video of the incident? it is on the BBC website. obviously not from your comment.
Nope, so I went and looked, and it doesn't show what happened. Though one can hear the 'taser, taser, taser' line
you need to watch it. No way you tell cops in that situation to just let him go.

There is a vast gulf between just letting him go and shooting him, even shooting him with a less lethal taser. The job is to protect and serve, and that can be managed over a 24 hour period of tracking him down and arresting him if needs be, and adding the charge of resisting arrest, and adding another charge belies the absurdity of saying not hooting him can be equated to just letting him go, they don't need to try and solve the situation in 24 seconds with a Hail Mary play. Such a quick escalation to shooting someone who wasn't looking like they were a danger to someone else simply shouldn't be the thought process.

I suspect they wouldn't even have needed 24 hours to track him down, they might have been able to follow him and apprehend minutes down the road, though then there's a question around is a high speed chase appropriate had he really tried to flee.

I suppose if his outstanding warrant is for something horrendously serious I might think about it a little differently, though you'd like to think were that the case he would already have been locked up ahead of his court case

I'm also fwiw not that perturbed for the individual involved, if you don't do what the police say I broadly think what happens next is your own sodding problem. But, there is a big problem when it comes to the wider societal take and how you police with consent, and they need to take a much greater interest in that, if for no other reason that it'd make their own jobs easier, though there are other reasons too
Sorry this has to be one of the most apologetic posts for criminals.. A guy is found to have a warrant for his arrest. The police try to arrest his (but appear to be rubbish with the handcuffs). The guy sees and opportunity to escape and attempts to jumping back in his car to escape. (your view is the police should just let him). Whilst in the struggle the police try to Taser him (perfectly valid) to stop an escaping criminal. In the confusion he got shot rather than being tasered.

However in if he had not tried to escape he would still be alive. He has to take some responsibility for his actions.

As to your policy of letting criminals go if they struggle.. who would be to blame if after letting him go he went down the road and ran over a 2 children ?
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

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feckwanker wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:15 am
Glaston wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:19 am So she turned off the safety on the gun and still thought it was a taser.

Weight difference too.
Positioning on belt.
Gun on main side, taser on off side
Yep, that dog just ain't gonna hunt.
I wear a tool belt everyday, never gone for the hammer on the wrong side- brain just refuses. I don’t believe her.
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Re: "I thought it was my taser" Shooting

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DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:38 pm
feckwanker wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:15 am
Glaston wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:19 am So she turned off the safety on the gun and still thought it was a taser.

Weight difference too.
Positioning on belt.
Gun on main side, taser on off side
Yep, that dog just ain't gonna hunt.
I wear a tool belt everyday, never gone for the hammer on the wrong side-
pretty sure around the world it happens now and then but no one ever knows
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