Planet Rugby Forum

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:24 am**

It's pleasing to see that these two teams are confirmed for 2022, although the details surrounding these teams is still very scant. I personally would have preferred a new team based in Auckland and one based in Western Sydney, but I can also see the appeal of these teams. Personally I think they'll struggle to attract players and won't be competitive, but 12 teams is a better size for the Trans Tasman competition.

Interesting that they have been approved by the NZR board. So they're effectively NZ teams?

Fiji, Pasifika teams confirmed starters in Super Rugby 2022
By Sam Phillips
April 14, 2021 — 12.02pm

The Fijian Drua and Moana Pasifika been granted conditional licences for entry into the Super Rugby competition in 2022.

World Rugby last month pledged a $2.16 million annual package to help guide the teams through their first three years in the competition and Rugby Australia and New Zealand Rugby have now deemed the expansion to a 12-team competition financially viable.

“In a significant step forward for Pacific Island rugby, Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua have been granted conditional licences to join a planned new professional competition next year, New Zealand Rugby (NZR) announced today,” a NZR statement said.

“The NZR Board’s decision to approve licences is a major step toward the two Pasifika teams joining NZR’s existing five Sky Super Rugby Aotearoa clubs and Rugby Australia’s (RA) five Super Rugby AU teams in a new tournament being planned for 2022 and is conditional on their final business plans and RA’s support.”

NZR chief executive Mark Robinson said the teams were now in the “final phase” of planning ahead of the 2022 season.

“We are moving into the final phase of planning for 2022 and beyond, and we have confidence that Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua will be able to meet the conditions of the licence, which includes final sign off on a sustainable business plan by 30 June,” Robinson said.

“In the next two months we will be working with Rugby Australia and the two Pasifika teams to formalise their place in the new competition for what we believe will kick off an exciting, new era for the professional game.”

The Pasifika team is expected to be partly based in south Auckland and the Fijians - who were part of the now-defunct NRC - could be partly based in western Sydney.

“That’s one thing that’s been brought up,” Fiji general manager of rugby Simon Raiwalui told the Herald.

“Obviously Fiji is a small market. We would definitely look at playing matches externally. Whether that’s in Australia, New Zealand or whatever other opportunities become available to us.

“With the Fijian and Pasifika communities in both countries and throughout south-east Asia, there are huge communities and huge support for anything Fiji rugby. That’s definitely an opportunity.”

Raiwalui believes the lure of returning home will help bring many Fijian stars now plying their trade abroad back to Fiji in the near future.

“One thing we don’t struggle with is talent. That’s our strongest resource. Obviously, it’s going to come down to timing with contracts and turnover,” he said.

“The first couple of years it’s going to be about building that initial squad. We have obviously talked to a lot of our talent worldwide. Whether that’s Australia, New Zealand or Europe.

“And there is a lot of interest to come back at the first opportunity to come and live in Fiji. To work and live in their home country, with their families and be able to earn a competitive salary

“It’s going to come down to timing but it’s not going to just be a one year project. It’s about planning over the next two, three, four or five years and targeting guys we want to bring back.”

More to come

Sport newslette

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:27 am**

Excellent news in theory. 12 teams is a good number, hopefully harking back to Super 12 days when the competition was at its best.

Hard to judge too much until we know competition structure, squads, where they'll be playing etc, but it seems like a step in the right direction.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:37 am**

Firstly, they need to organise where these teams will call home. I suspect Pasifika Moana will be based in Auckland and the Drua in Suva?

Secondly, they need to hire quality, experienced coaches. People like Filo Tiatia and Tana Umaga would be a good person to be involved with the Moana.

Then the need to build their squads and recruit talent. Most quality players are already contracted for 2022 so they may struggle initially. The problem then moving forward will be recruiting players to a team that is struggling.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:39 am**

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:27 am Excellent news in theory. 12 teams is a good number, hopefully harking back to Super 12 days when the competition was at its best.

Hard to judge too much until we know competition structure, squads, where they'll be playing etc, but it seems like a step in the right direction.

Be bloody great to get back to a super 12 style again!!

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:39 am**

A lot will depend on how the internal politics of it all works out. If both squads are genuinely the best available players, and the supporter base is onside, they will be a great addition.

If....

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:43 am**

wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:39 am A lot will depend on how the internal politics of it all works out. If both squads are genuinely the best available players, and the supporter base is onside, they will be a great addition.

If....

That's never going to happen wamberal. The best PI players will still play in the NH because of the disparity in wages. Like all the current SR teams, these new teams will essentially be feeder teams for the wealthy NH leagues.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:41 am**

A bit more info is emerging.

The teams licenses have been approved by NZR but are conditional on being approved by Rugby Australia. They are also conditional on having business plans approved.

The two new teams will share a combined WR grant of $2.6m per year for three years to help with establishment costs.

Drua will be based in Suva and Pasifika Moana based in South Auckland. Where would they play home games in South Auckland?

Super Rugby: Moana Pasifika and Fijian Drua get conditional go-ahead to join new competition next year
Stuff Sports Reporters
14:13, Apr 14 2021

Conditional licences have been granted to Moana Pasifika and Fijian Drua to join a new Super Rugby competition from next year.

The decision follows World Rugby recently granting a £1.2m (NZ$2.3 million) annual funding package for an initial three-year period to support the two franchises in joining Super Rugby from 2022.

New Zealand Rugby said its board’s decision to approve licences is a major step towards the two Pasifika teams joining the existing five Sky Super Rugby Aotearoa clubs and Rugby Australia’s five Super Rugby AU teams in a new tournament being planned for 2022. It is conditional on their final business plans and RA's support.

Moana Pasifika is a joint Samoa and Tonga side which is looking at a south Auckland base, while the Fijian Drua are likely to be based in Suva.

While the approval is conditional, New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson is confident the two teams will play in the new competition.

“We are moving into the final phase of planning for 2022 and beyond, and we have confidence that Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua will be able to meet the conditions of the licence, which includes final sign off on a sustainable business plan by 30 June.

“In the next two months we will be working with Rugby Australia and the two Pasifika teams to formalise their place.’’

All Blacks great Sir Michael Jones, who also played for Manu Samoa and is on the NZR board, announced the move at a press conference in Auckland on Wednesday to a round of applause.

“We are now on the cusp of realising a long-held desire to include Pasifika in our professional game and the opportunity to embrace all that comes with that.

“With the approval of licences, Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua can now forge ahead with the final stages of their business plans and crucially start to lock in their playing and coaching rosters for next season. It’s an exciting time for rugby.”

World Rugby announced last month that it had NZ$2.3m a year for three years to help the two Pasifika bids build their business case.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:51 am**

I'm surprised they have gone with two teams straight off the bat. It's great news all the same.

So, this looks like the door has irrevocably slammed shut on the Saffas returning to a SH comp. By the same token, it's a shame for the Argies.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:52 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:41 am A bit more info is emerging.

The teams licenses have been approved by NZR but are conditional on being approved by Rugby Australia. They are also conditional on having business plans approved.

The two new teams will share a combined WR grant of $2.6m per year for three years to help with establishment costs.

Drua will be based in Suva and Pasifika Moana based in South Auckland. Where would they play home games in South Auckland?

Super Rugby: Moana Pasifika and Fijian Drua get conditional go-ahead to join new competition next year
Stuff Sports Reporters
14:13, Apr 14 2021

Conditional licences have been granted to Moana Pasifika and Fijian Drua to join a new Super Rugby competition from next year.

The decision follows World Rugby recently granting a £1.2m (NZ$2.3 million) annual funding package for an initial three-year period to support the two franchises in joining Super Rugby from 2022.

New Zealand Rugby said its board’s decision to approve licences is a major step towards the two Pasifika teams joining the existing five Sky Super Rugby Aotearoa clubs and Rugby Australia’s five Super Rugby AU teams in a new tournament being planned for 2022. It is conditional on their final business plans and RA's support.

Moana Pasifika is a joint Samoa and Tonga side which is looking at a south Auckland base, while the Fijian Drua are likely to be based in Suva.

While the approval is conditional, New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson is confident the two teams will play in the new competition.

“We are moving into the final phase of planning for 2022 and beyond, and we have confidence that Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua will be able to meet the conditions of the licence, which includes final sign off on a sustainable business plan by 30 June.

“In the next two months we will be working with Rugby Australia and the two Pasifika teams to formalise their place.’’

All Blacks great Sir Michael Jones, who also played for Manu Samoa and is on the NZR board, announced the move at a press conference in Auckland on Wednesday to a round of applause.

“We are now on the cusp of realising a long-held desire to include Pasifika in our professional game and the opportunity to embrace all that comes with that.

“With the approval of licences, Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua can now forge ahead with the final stages of their business plans and crucially start to lock in their playing and coaching rosters for next season. It’s an exciting time for rugby.”

World Rugby announced last month that it had NZ$2.3m a year for three years to help the two Pasifika bids build their business case.

Pukekohe.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:55 am**

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:52 am Pukekohe.

Yes that would be the logical venue. If the Crusaders can play out of Orangetheory Stadium for a decade plus then Pukekohe should be more than adequate.

Will be interesting to see if the Moana eat into the Blues current supporter base, or if they attract new fans? Perhaps even trying to win over fans of the Warrriors?

Pukekohe certainly has an intimate, 'boutique' feel to it

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:59 am**

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:51 am I'm surprised they have gone with two teams straight off the bat. It's great news all the same.

So, this looks like the door has irrevocably slammed shut on the Saffas returning to a SH comp. By the same token, it's a shame for the Argies.

My understanding is the UAR are already close to confirming that the Jaguares will play in Europe next year, and be based in Spain. I agree that what's transpired has been unfair on them, they did everything they were asked to do and they were still given the boot. They'd still be involved in SR if it wasn't for COVID-19.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:00 am**

I wonder how this conversation will go with the respective broadcasters.

2 more games per week, how much are they willing to pump up the tyres as a result.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:04 am**

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:00 am I wonder how this conversation will go with the respective broadcasters.

2 more games per week, how much are they willing to pump up the tyres as a result.

A 12 team comp all played in viewer-friendly timeslots. Sounds like the format many of us have been wanting for years. I'd imagine this comp will be infinitely more attractive to broadcasters in NZ and Australia than the previous formats that involved South African and Argentine teams. I still think it's interesting that no Japanese team was considered, given their timezones would work, but I guess NZR and RA have learned from previous mistakes and they wanted to keep the comp more 'local' and based in the South Pacific. As an aside, I think Pasifika Moana and the Drua could be well supported by the big Pasifika community in Australia, which would only help generate revenue.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:14 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:59 am
Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:51 am I'm surprised they have gone with two teams straight off the bat. It's great news all the same.

So, this looks like the door has irrevocably slammed shut on the Saffas returning to a SH comp. By the same token, it's a shame for the Argies.
My understanding is the UAR are already close to confirming that the Jaguares will play in Europe next year, and be based in Spain. I agree that what's transpired has been unfair on them, they did everything they were asked to do and they were still given the boot. They'd still be involved in SR if it wasn't for COVID-19.

Apparently looking at Bilbao. Which is a little odd considering both Madrid and Barcelona have the two highest concentration of Argentines living in Spain. As per this graphic.

Which would be their natural target audience to start.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:20 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:04 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:00 am I wonder how this conversation will go with the respective broadcasters.

2 more games per week, how much are they willing to pump up the tyres as a result.
A 12 team comp all played in viewer-friendly timeslots. Sounds like the format many of us have been wanting for years. I'd imagine this comp will be infinitely more attractive to broadcasters in NZ and Australia than the previous formats that involved South African and Argentine teams. I still think it's interesting that no Japanese team was considered, given their timezones would work, but I guess NZR and RA have learned from previous mistakes and they wanted to keep the comp more 'local' and based in the South Pacific. As an aside, I think Pasifika Moana and the Drua could be well supported by the big Pasifika community in Australia, which would only help generate revenue.

Japan are going with their own league. But apparently would like to participate in some kind of cross-border competition. As for broadcasters. I think they'll have a lot o input as to format. And which is more valuable. What I will say is looking at the likes of the A-League and there previous pre-Covid deal the competitions ratings were at similar levels to SR before it left Fox but domestically generated more thanks to there being more games. So that will come into consideration. Not suggesting a double round robin. But I don't think a back to the future single round S12 comp would be worth as much as something in and around halfway between the two.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:22 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:04 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:00 am I wonder how this conversation will go with the respective broadcasters.

2 more games per week, how much are they willing to pump up the tyres as a result.
A 12 team comp all played in viewer-friendly timeslots. Sounds like the format many of us have been wanting for years. I'd imagine this comp will be infinitely more attractive to broadcasters in NZ and Australia than the previous formats that involved South African and Argentine teams. I still think it's interesting that no Japanese team was considered, given their timezones would work, but I guess NZR and RA have learned from previous mistakes and they wanted to keep the comp more 'local' and based in the South Pacific. As an aside, I think Pasifika Moana and the Drua could be well supported by the big Pasifika community in Australia, which would only help generate revenue.

I agree, but I guess we've been burned by expansion before. Id hope the uplift in broadcast revenue is sufficient to justify the cost of the teams.

I've heard that the Japanese may be considered in a "champions league" type comp.

Id love to see the best of the Top League versus the best teams from TasmanSoup

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:07 am**

[quote="Ted.

Pukekohe.
[/quote]

I thought when the talk started I think it was Eroni clarke saying they had Mt Smart preferred for home games. I would expect and hope they would take at least a couple a year to Samoa etc.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:00 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:43 am
wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:39 am A lot will depend on how the internal politics of it all works out. If both squads are genuinely the best available players, and the supporter base is onside, they will be a great addition.

If....
That's never going to happen wamberal. The best PI players will still play in the NH because of the disparity in wages. Like all the current SR teams, these new teams will essentially be feeder teams for the wealthy NH leagues.

The best from amongst the player pool that is available. No politics.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:02 am**

wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:00 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:43 am
wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:39 am A lot will depend on how the internal politics of it all works out. If both squads are genuinely the best available players, and the supporter base is onside, they will be a great addition.

If....
That's never going to happen wamberal. The best PI players will still play in the NH because of the disparity in wages. Like all the current SR teams, these new teams will essentially be feeder teams for the wealthy NH leagues.
The best from amongst the player pool that is available. No politics.

Politics shouldn't be an issue. My understanding is that the Pasifika Moana team has no formal links to the Samoan or Tonga national unions.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:43 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:02 am
wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:00 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:43 am
wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:39 am A lot will depend on how the internal politics of it all works out. If both squads are genuinely the best available players, and the supporter base is onside, they will be a great addition.

If....
That's never going to happen wamberal. The best PI players will still play in the NH because of the disparity in wages. Like all the current SR teams, these new teams will essentially be feeder teams for the wealthy NH leagues.
The best from amongst the player pool that is available. No politics.
Politics shouldn't be an issue. My understanding is that the Pasifika Moana team has no formal links to the Samoan or Tonga national unions.

So it's a sixth New Zealand Super team with an interesting name?

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:04 am**

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:43 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:02 am
wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:00 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:43 am
wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:39 am A lot will depend on how the internal politics of it all works out. If both squads are genuinely the best available players, and the supporter base is onside, they will be a great addition.

If....
That's never going to happen wamberal. The best PI players will still play in the NH because of the disparity in wages. Like all the current SR teams, these new teams will essentially be feeder teams for the wealthy NH leagues.
The best from amongst the player pool that is available. No politics.
Politics shouldn't be an issue. My understanding is that the Pasifika Moana team has no formal links to the Samoan or Tonga national unions.

So it's a sixth New Zealand Super team with an interesting name?

Yeah, probably.

Posted: **Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:07 am**

Interesting to see Breakdown lat night and Kevin Senio talking about players etc. Moana Pacifika apparently have worked out player payments to be same as NZ super teams. A bit of a discussion on who was eligible for team, and apparnetly 80% of players have to be Samoa or Tonga eligible allowing 20% (8 players) of players that can be Wallabies,ABs or whatever.
Makes sense to me. Funnily enough ' hey I am controversial' John Kirwan was against it . Kept saying that was not good because how was it going to help Tomga (I sure he also meant Samoa) if players that were ineligible for them were allowed to play. I don't think he must of understood that to be able to maybe get back players like say who have played for Wallabies or Abs might help make team strong enough to actually survive and make it an attractive team to join. Hope Drua are also looking at getting a few ex internationals in to, or they also may struggle.

Posted: **Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:11 am**

Working Class Rugger wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:04 am
Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:43 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:02 am
wamberal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:00 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:43 am

That's never going to happen wamberal. The best PI players will still play in the NH because of the disparity in wages. Like all the current SR teams, these new teams will essentially be feeder teams for the wealthy NH leagues.
The best from amongst the player pool that is available. No politics.
Politics shouldn't be an issue. My understanding is that the Pasifika Moana team has no formal links to the Samoan or Tonga national unions.

So it's a sixth New Zealand Super team with an interesting name?
Yeah, probably.

Key difference is that currently NZ teams have a cap (5?), of non NZ eligible players. Assumedly this team would not have this cap.

Posted: **Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:55 pm**

Just thinking about it these may be among those NZ based players attractive to the Moana Pasifika hierarchy, who could be useful in terms of preparation, leadership, etc with some AB’s, Sevens, and others not getting much game time in SRA. I’m sure there would be more, but these cam quickly to mind:
Tony Lamborn, Greg Pleasants-Tate, Jack Regan, Alex Ainley, Charles Alaimalo, Adam Thomson*, Dylan Nel, Jono Hickey, Brett Cameron*, Tuamua Manu, Amanaki Nicole, Keiran Fonotia, Josh McKay, Ray Nu’u, Nehe Milner-Skudder*

Posted: **Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:22 pm**

Yep peteray, I think if they use it properly will make a lot of sense to use some experienced players that aren't eligible. They need a team that can be competitive as possible right from start, and experience will help I think, regardless of JKs thoughts, I reckon they have to take a pragmatic stance.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:52 am**

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:38 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:11 am
Working Class Rugger wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:04 am
Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:43 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:02 am

Politics shouldn't be an issue. My understanding is that the Pasifika Moana team has no formal links to the Samoan or Tonga national unions.

So it's a sixth New Zealand Super team with an interesting name?
Yeah, probably.
Key difference is that currently NZ teams have a cap (5?), of non NZ eligible players. Assumedly this team would not have this cap.
Someone must have covered this already, but...

80% of the team must be eligible to play for the Islands. Anyone who is already capped for another nation is either included in that 20% 'other' or they're not in the team.

I'm sure someone will try and paint a parallel to marquee type players and an unfair advantage under a 20% cap but I think it's a decent balance. These guys are trying to take part as a genuinely representative team feeding benefits back into their home unions through exposure... I don't think its realistic to try for a greater proportion of uncapped or home capped players. Not yet, anyway.

Yeah, I saw that. Seems like a fair balance.

Its clearly going to eat in to the strength of depth of the 5 NZ soup teams...maybe not a bad thing for the overall balance of the competition?

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:32 am**

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:00 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:52 am

Yeah, I saw that. Seems like a fair balance.

Its clearly going to eat in to the strength of depth of the 5 NZ soup teams...maybe not a bad thing for the overall balance of the competition?
You'd think so, being based in Auckland... and no, no bad thing overall. NZ rugby can probably cover for some dilution, more so than outright player drain to European rugby. Perhaps having a more tangible pathway like this for Islands rugby can offer an attractive alternative to Europe for enough players to have a positive effect for both the Islands and NZ. I hope so.

It sounds fantastic and I really hope it works out.

So what is behind the names:
Fiji Drua - what is Drua?
Pasifika Moana - what is Moana? Google comes up with Disney.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:39 am**

LandOTurk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:32 am
guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:00 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:52 am

Yeah, I saw that. Seems like a fair balance.

Its clearly going to eat in to the strength of depth of the 5 NZ soup teams...maybe not a bad thing for the overall balance of the competition?
You'd think so, being based in Auckland... and no, no bad thing overall. NZ rugby can probably cover for some dilution, more so than outright player drain to European rugby. Perhaps having a more tangible pathway like this for Islands rugby can offer an attractive alternative to Europe for enough players to have a positive effect for both the Islands and NZ. I hope so.
It sounds fantastic and I really hope it works out.

So what is behind the names:
Fiji Drua - what is Drua?
Pasifika Moana - what is Moana? Google comes up with Disney.

Drua - is a boat or canoe I think.

No idea about Moana.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:44 am**

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:39 am
LandOTurk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:32 am
guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:00 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:52 am

Yeah, I saw that. Seems like a fair balance.

Its clearly going to eat in to the strength of depth of the 5 NZ soup teams...maybe not a bad thing for the overall balance of the competition?
You'd think so, being based in Auckland... and no, no bad thing overall. NZ rugby can probably cover for some dilution, more so than outright player drain to European rugby. Perhaps having a more tangible pathway like this for Islands rugby can offer an attractive alternative to Europe for enough players to have a positive effect for both the Islands and NZ. I hope so.
It sounds fantastic and I really hope it works out.

So what is behind the names:
Fiji Drua - what is Drua?
Pasifika Moana - what is Moana? Google comes up with Disney.
Drua - is a boat or canoe I think.

No idea about Moana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fijian_Drua

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moana_Pasifika

Only found this.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:47 am**

LandOTurk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:44 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:39 am
LandOTurk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:32 am
guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:00 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:52 am

Yeah, I saw that. Seems like a fair balance.

Its clearly going to eat in to the strength of depth of the 5 NZ soup teams...maybe not a bad thing for the overall balance of the competition?
You'd think so, being based in Auckland... and no, no bad thing overall. NZ rugby can probably cover for some dilution, more so than outright player drain to European rugby. Perhaps having a more tangible pathway like this for Islands rugby can offer an attractive alternative to Europe for enough players to have a positive effect for both the Islands and NZ. I hope so.
It sounds fantastic and I really hope it works out.

So what is behind the names:
Fiji Drua - what is Drua?
Pasifika Moana - what is Moana? Google comes up with Disney.
Drua - is a boat or canoe I think.

No idea about Moana.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fijian_Drua

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moana_Pasifika

Only found this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drua

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:54 am**

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:38 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:11 am
Working Class Rugger wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:04 am
Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:43 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:02 am

Politics shouldn't be an issue. My understanding is that the Pasifika Moana team has no formal links to the Samoan or Tonga national unions.

So it's a sixth New Zealand Super team with an interesting name?
Yeah, probably.
Key difference is that currently NZ teams have a cap (5?), of non NZ eligible players. Assumedly this team would not have this cap.
Someone must have covered this already, but...

80% of the team must be eligible to play for the Islands. Anyone who is already capped for another nation is either included in that 20% 'other' or they're not in the team.

I'm sure someone will try and paint a parallel to marquee type players and an unfair advantage under a 20% cap but I think it's a decent balance. These guys are trying to take part as a genuinely representative team feeding benefits back into their home unions through exposure... I don't think its realistic to try for a greater proportion of uncapped or home capped players. Not yet, anyway.

Seems to a lot of positivity on this thread, so I’ll bring the doom and gloom.

One of the issues with this team is that 80% of the players could be eligible for the PIs, but 80% of those 80% might also be eligible for NZ. What happens when a NZer of PI descent misses a NZ Super squad (they may be too young or be from Hawkes Bay and want to make the Canes) gets picked up for Moana Pasifika and then has a standout season and they make the ABs?

TBH, I really can’t see much positive about this – the money wont be enough to keep many PIs down here rather than in the NH. NZ can’t sustain 6 teams, and make no mistake this is just a NZ team.

I just don’t understand what the purpose of it is. If WR really want to help PI rugby then crack down on any clubs who induce PIs to miss test matches etc. Look at eligibility for PI teams moving forward because their pool of players will be dropping. We already have a situation where recent Samoan internationals have children who are not eligible for the PIs. We’re a couple of generations away from the islands picking from the tiny numbers of players on their own island.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:24 am**

I have to agree with Uncle FB. I am a proud half Samoan but I was never excited about this prospect. I wanted a 6th NZ team based in Auckland. WR either doesn't understand the problems facing PI Rugby, or is desperately trying to avoid solving them.

The problem is not a lack of professional pathways for Samoan players. Between NZ, Australia, Japan, European clubs, the NRL and the NFL, there are plenty of pathways for talented Samoan athletes to become professionals. The issue is the declining strength of the national PI teams and the opportunities for PI players to have meaningful test careers representing the Island nations. Pasifika Moana will do nothing to solve these problems. There are plenty of things that WR could do to bolster the PI test teams but so far they have refused to do anything.

The Pasifika Moana concept could only work if it was a direct pathway for local Island talent. If it drew directly from the domestic club comps in Samoa and Tonga and provided a pathway for these players to professionalism. If it provided a way for unheralded but talented Islanders to showcase their skills so they could be recruited by wealthy NH clubs. The downside to this model is that they would be uncompetitive with the other NZ franchises because they would be drawing from quite a limited player base. They would definitely uncover a few gems though.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:25 am**

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:08 am Do you reckon that a couple of decent seasons coupled with more test matches for the national teams could generate some momentum and tap into national pride for those guys?

The only way I can see it being successful in the way you describe is if it balkanises NZ rugby. It’s successful if it sucks away NZers of PI descent, and sucks away NZ fans.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:36 am**

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:30 am
UncleFB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:25 am
guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:08 am Do you reckon that a couple of decent seasons coupled with more test matches for the national teams could generate some momentum and tap into national pride for those guys?
The only way I can see it being successful in the way you describe is if it balkanises NZ rugby. It’s successful if it sucks away NZers of PI descent, and sucks away NZ fans.
Balkanises? Like, bomb the crap out of Kosovo sort of thing?

Wow dude... shit just got real

I'm talking wide sweeps of the contextual brush here but stripping some players from the wider comp for one team, along with some fans... would be a good thing overall, surely? You'd end up with more players and a new group of fans with a healthy sense of pride in their players... and the added benefit of giving all those snooty cnuts in Fendalton something more to hate.

Those fans are already following the ABs and the Blues. There wont be a new group of fans.

Surely those snooty cnuts in Fendalton already have enough to hate with the Blues and their mixed race loosies?

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:24 am**

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:46 am I dunno... I make it a habit not to stop and chat in Fendalton.

I was thinking of the massive support the Tongan League team had back in... 2017? was it? I would have thought there would be enough national pride in the Islander communities within NZ and even Aus to pull a decent crowd. To me it seems you'd look to capitalise on that, build it up and try and generate the sort of tribal support that can really drive a team on.

I must admit this was pretty much how I saw it as well. At the same time I don't feel the biggest challenge is putting a competitive team on the park, but rather the financial aspects of the concept being sustained for long enough to make the club/team self-supporting. If they get $2.3m from World Rugby, and $2.5m from the NZR and Sky, they still need another $5.2m as I understand it, each year. So much will depend upon the off-field activity and decisions.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:28 am**

Ideally its the Warriors fan base that gets cannibalised.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:47 am**

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:28 am Ideally its the Warriors fan base that gets cannibalised.

Auckland is a city of 2 million people, and the Blues struggle to get more than 10K people to games. There is plenty of room in the Greater Auckland market for another pro-sports team to occupy.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:52 am**

UncleFB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:54 am
guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:38 am
Zakar wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:11 am
Working Class Rugger wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:04 am
Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:43 am

So it's a sixth New Zealand Super team with an interesting name?
Yeah, probably.
Key difference is that currently NZ teams have a cap (5?), of non NZ eligible players. Assumedly this team would not have this cap.
Someone must have covered this already, but...

80% of the team must be eligible to play for the Islands. Anyone who is already capped for another nation is either included in that 20% 'other' or they're not in the team.

I'm sure someone will try and paint a parallel to marquee type players and an unfair advantage under a 20% cap but I think it's a decent balance. These guys are trying to take part as a genuinely representative team feeding benefits back into their home unions through exposure... I don't think its realistic to try for a greater proportion of uncapped or home capped players. Not yet, anyway.
Seems to a lot of positivity on this thread, so I’ll bring the doom and gloom.

One of the issues with this team is that 80% of the players could be eligible for the PIs, but 80% of those 80% might also be eligible for NZ. What happens when a NZer of PI descent misses a NZ Super squad (they may be too young or be from Hawkes Bay and want to make the Canes) gets picked up for Moana Pasifika and then has a standout season and they make the ABs?

TBH, I really can’t see much positive about this – the money wont be enough to keep many PIs down here rather than in the NH. NZ can’t sustain 6 teams, and make no mistake this is just a NZ team.

I just don’t understand what the purpose of it is. If WR really want to help PI rugby then crack down on any clubs who induce PIs to miss test matches etc. Look at eligibility for PI teams moving forward because their pool of players will be dropping. We already have a situation where recent Samoan internationals have children who are not eligible for the PIs. We’re a couple of generations away from the islands picking from the tiny numbers of players on their own island.

The sad truth is there's really no long term future for Samoa and Tonga in international rugby as relatively competitive sides. Just too small.

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:59 am**

fonzeee wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:52 am The sad truth is there's really no long term future for Samoa and Tonga in international rugby as relatively competitive sides. Just too small.

Not with the current WR eligibility model. But under previous IRB eligibility models, both Samoa and Tonga could be top 8 nations right now. Rugby League tweaked it rules and now Tonga can beat the Kangaroos. Why can't Rugby?

Posted: **Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:14 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:59 am
fonzeee wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:52 am The sad truth is there's really no long term future for Samoa and Tonga in international rugby as relatively competitive sides. Just too small.
Not with the current WR eligibility model. But under previous IRB eligibility models, both Samoa and Tonga could be top 8 nations right now. Rugby League tweaked it rules and now Tonga can beat the Kangaroos. Why can't Rugby?

Yeah, there's really no reason Piutau, Fekitoa et al shouldn't be playing for Tonga right now, a la Taumalolo in League.

Put in place a two-year standdown if necessary and make it so you can only swap once and only swap from Tier 1 to Tier 2.

That's only the tip of the iceberg of course. I didn't see it, but heard the Oceans Apart documentary released late last year exposed a lot of those issues quite well.

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