Planet Rugby Forum

Yer Man wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:41 pm Gavin Hastings is uncle to Adam Hastings.
Scott Hastings is the Daddy.

OP is correct.

Jeremy Stanley's debut for the All Blacks was only 6 years after Joe Stanley's last match for them.

Micheal Lynagh’s son Lewis is just starting his career at Quins I think

Winnie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:19 pm

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:50 pm

Poshprop wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:30 pm
7: James Botham (Wales) Liam Botham (Eng U21 & Newcastle)

Christ I feel old now!

I was trying to work our when Ian Botham played Rugby when I realised it was his grandson
So yep, I'm sitting on that step feeling old with you!

Worse is that I'm older than Liam

Sinkers wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:20 am Micheal Lynagh’s son Lewis is just starting his career at Quins I think

Yes, I believe so. In Wales there are dozen liken this, but the sons rarely make the regional let alone international grade. Top of my head -

Cai son of Ieuan Evans
Sam son of Nigel Davies
Billy son of Robin McBryde
Max son of Gareth Llewellyn
Sam son of Steve Moore
Ifan son of Kevin Phillips

Arthur Bryan Curtis 3 caps for Ireland father to David Curtis 13 Caps Ireland father to Angus Curtis U20's for Ireland

Do great uncles count?

Bob Deans great uncle to Robbie and Bruce Deans.

Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi is George Nepia's descendant. Great or great-great-grandson. Not widely known as Nepia fathered a child before going on an AB tour to the UK who he connected with later in life.

Sinkers wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:20 am Micheal Lynagh’s son Lewis is just starting his career at Quins I think

His other son Tom (who is 17/18) is currently playing for Quins but will be moving to QLD to play for the Reds in a month or so. Played for England schools, I think.

mr bungle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:59 am Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi is George Nepia's descendant. Great or great-great-grandson. Not widely known as Nepia fathered a child before going on an AB tour to the UK who he connected with later in life.

Tamati Ellison is the grandson of Vince Bevan and descendent of Thomas Ellison played for the New Zealand Native 1888–89 and led the first NZ team who toured Australia in 1893 (he was also a lawyer and politician).

He is also related to Keith Davis (AB and Maori AB) and Riki Ellison, the first NZer to play NFL. Rhett Ellison, Riki's son, also played NFL.

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:43 am

mr bungle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:59 am Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi is George Nepia's descendant. Great or great-great-grandson. Not widely known as Nepia fathered a child before going on an AB tour to the UK who he connected with later in life.

Tamati Ellison is the grandson of Vince Bevan and descendent of Thomas Ellison played for the New Zealand Native 1888–89 and led the first NZ team who toured Australia in 1893 (he was also a lawyer and politician).

He is also related to Keith Davis (AB and Maori AB) and Riki Ellison, the first NZer to play NFL. Rhett Ellison, Riki's son, also played NFL.

Yeah, he's a good one to mention. Rhys Ellison the former Otago and Waikato midfielder is another one from that family.

An interesting father son one is 1930s AB Everard Jackson (East Coast, Hawkes Bay, NZ Maori) who was the son of Fred Jackson who represented the 1908 Anglo-Welsh team on tour to NZ. He was investigated by the Rugby Football Union for professionalism so stayed in NZ and played league for NZ. Syd and Willie Jackson are his descendants also.

ZuluBoy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:28 pm Carel du Plessis , Willie du Plessis and Michael du Plessis (3 brothers Springboks in the 1986 Springboks best ever backline) and their brother Jaque du Plessis (E.P) dad Willem du Plessis (E.P)

E.P is Eastern Province ( Elephants ) and neighbours of W.P is Western Province (Stormers)

Mauritz Van Den Berg was a Springbok in the late 1930’s, represented South Africa as a lock, and his son, Derek followed suit in the 1970’s, after playing for Ikeys and Western Province. Grandson Kris played for both Maties and Ikeys.

jambanja wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:00 am Arthur Bryan Curtis 3 caps for Ireland father to David Curtis 13 Caps Ireland father to Angus Curtis U20's for Ireland

As an aside, the last two are Zimbabwean, I went to school with David, he now owns a Wine distributorship in Harare which was a life saver when the wife and I went to look after my parents a couple of years ago, my mothers Alzheimer's was a tough thing to deal with

Every year the England U20 EPS seems to have a handful of guys with high profile dads. Going on to make full international honours is clearly less common.

This year Stuart Lancaster and Zinzan Brooke's sons are involved in the squad.

Nico Jones and the Iceman

John Leslie and Andy Leslie

Andrew McCormick, Fergie McCormick, and Archie McCormick

Jay Cee Gee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:45 pm Jeremy Stanley's debut for the All Blacks was only 6 years after Joe Stanley's last match for them.

Didn’t they play a match together for Auckland?

P in VG wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:18 pm Lloyd Williams / Brynmor Williams

Derek Quinell / Scott Quinell

Dai Young / Tom Young

One of my favourite halfbacks and possessed about the best dive pass you’ll ever see.

Scott Sio's father (David) played for Samoa at the 91 RWC. If Samoa would have beaten Scotland in the 1/4 final, he would have been named 'Samoa' Sio.

Toutai Kefu's father (Fatai) played 6 tests for Tonga, including the massive upset over Australia at home.

The grandfather of Tom Lawnton (scrum monster) was an all-time great for the Wallabies (also Tom Lawnton).

Alan and Mike Alaalatoa's father (Vili) played 10 tests for Samoa.

towny wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:10 am Scott Sio's father (David) played for Samoa at the 91 RWC. If Samoa would have beaten Scotland in the 1/4 final, he would have been named 'Samoa' Sio.

Tevita Sio was in my Canterbury university club team - along with Warwick Taylor. I felt really old watching Scotts Brumbies play Tom's Crusaders a couple of seasons ago.

The Samoan RWC91 team has plenty of top class rugby playing sons.

I'm sure Simon Poidevins son is playing for the LA Giltinis

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:23 am I'm sure Simon Poidevins son is playing for the LA Giltinis

He is. The team is new to me. Named after a cocktail. How L.A.

AAC and Giteau there too.

The English Youngs bros' dad played for England.

Think Lozowski's dad might have got an England cap.

Jacob Umaga is getting there, son of The Legend.

Famous French combos are Camberabero and Skrela.

There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

mr bungle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:49 am

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:23 am I'm sure Simon Poidevins son is playing for the LA Giltinis

He is. The team is new to me. Named after a cocktail. How L.A.

AAC and Giteau there too.

Ron Giteau was a handy league player, and if you're going that way you can throw in Tyrel (John) Lomax, Tane (Steve) Edmed and Ben (Phil) Daley.

I didn't know AAC's Dad played at a high level; however google just told me his father was Wallaby Graeme Bond!

While I think of it, future prop superstar, Angus Bell's father is 1990's Wallaby hooker, Mark Bell.

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

Yep.
Soccer doesn't have nearly the same barriers to entry - going to a particular school isn't much of an advantage + as a poor kid with a ball can practice by themselves or start a game with one mate, it's probably a disadvantage coming from a privileged life, where you've got lots of things to do with your time.

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

Although that no doubt makes a fair bit of difference, there are other factors I reckon. Firstly, if you're the son of a multi-multi millionaire, I'm not sure you are going to have the drive to succeed at the highest level of anything, let alone in a competitive field as football.

Also, rugby needs physical specimens, and one quick/lazy way to unearth them is to look at the sons of dads who were specimens (there are loads out there, but one of the more interesting ones that is just coming through here in Wales, and will no doubt pull on a red jersey in the near future, is the lock sized centre Max Llewellyn, who is son of ex-Wales lock Gareth Llewellyn. 6 foot 5 and 105kg)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... e-20467831



For a man who revels in such things, I imagine his thighs make you moist.

towny wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:11 am I didn't know AAC's Dad played at a high level; however google just told me his father was Wallaby Graeme Bond!

That would make him Adam Three Dads. Isn’t Bond his uncle?

Mr Mike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:25 am

towny wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:11 am I didn't know AAC's Dad played at a high level; however google just told me his father was Wallaby Graeme Bond!

That would make him Adam Three Dads. Isn’t Bond his uncle?

Shit!

Yes. I'm an idiot and can't write 'uncle' without messing it up.

Edinburgh01 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:05 pm

Yer Man wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:41 pm Gavin Hastings is uncle to Adam Hastings.
Scott Hastings is the Daddy.

OP is correct.

Really!
I've had that the wrong way round for a few years then

Jeff the Bear wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:17 am

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

Although that no doubt makes a fair bit of difference, there are other factors I reckon. Firstly, if you're the son of a multi-multi millionaire, I'm not sure you are going to have the drive to succeed at the highest level of anything, let alone in a competitive field as football.

Also, rugby needs physical specimens, and one quick/lazy way to unearth them is to look at the sons of dads who were specimens (there are loads out there, but one of the more interesting ones that is just coming through here in Wales, and will no doubt pull on a red jersey in the near future, is the lock sized centre Max Llewellyn, who is son of ex-Wales lock Gareth Llewellyn. 6 foot 5 and 105kg)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... e-20467831



For a man who revels in such things, I imagine his thighs make you moist.

Fair to say that a lot of rugby stars come from privileged backgrounds. I'd wager the same can be said about tennis and golf stars. There are barriers to entry for these sports - most rugby stars played it at school, and most schools that play rugby cost a few bucks.

Perhaps that's why PIs and kiwis do so well. Without the same barriers to entry, you source players from a larger cross section of society, meaning kids with higher levels of talent.

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

There are plenty of sons of players in the NFL.

It's almost like having good genes, connections and plenty of money gives you an advantage in life

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:06 pm

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

There are plenty of sons of players in the NFL.

It's almost like having good genes, connections and plenty of money gives you an advantage in life

Another sport with barriers to entry? Very technical game so growing up with an expert is possibly a big advantage. I don't know. Definitely will give you good genes.

But where are the sons of the soccer players and 100m sprinters? Money, genes and connections doesn't appear to be a factor in the sports that (may?) have the most level playing fields.

towny wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:13 pm

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:06 pm

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

There are plenty of sons of players in the NFL.

It's almost like having good genes, connections and plenty of money gives you an advantage in life

Another sport with barriers to entry? Very technical game so growing up with an expert is possibly a big advantage. I don't know. Definitely will give you good genes.

But where are the sons of the soccer players and 100m sprinters? Money, genes and connections doesn't appear to be a factor in the sports that (may?) have the most level playing fields.

I googled a list, but to be honest I don't think I could name a full XI of famous soccer players. What does David Beckham's son do? Probably a singer.

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

I think its more that there is less need of natural ability for rugby
If you are surrounded by it from a young age and are taught correctly there is a strong chance you can make it.

Football however is a god given talent, you either have it or you dont

Jeff the Bear wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:17 am

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

Although that no doubt makes a fair bit of difference, there are other factors I reckon. Firstly, if you're the son of a multi-multi millionaire, I'm not sure you are going to have the drive to succeed at the highest level of anything, let alone in a competitive field as football.

Also, rugby needs physical specimens, and one quick/lazy way to unearth them is to look at the sons of dads who were specimens (there are loads out there, but one of the more interesting ones that is just coming through here in Wales, and will no doubt pull on a red jersey in the near future, is the lock sized centre Max Llewellyn, who is son of ex-Wales lock Gareth Llewellyn. 6 foot 5 and 105kg)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... e-20467831



For a man who revels in such things, I imagine his thighs make you moist.

I think it just boils down to the size of player pools.

If you assume half of the English Premier League are English, you've about 250 English top-division pros.

Assuming a population for England of 55 million or so, 1 in 220,000 people is a Premier League footballer.

Number for rugby is about the same.

England has about 400,000 odd rugby players. If you assume 12 squads of 40 players. you've 480 players. if we assume half are English, we're dividing 240 (rather than 250) into 400,000.

Now, we know far, far more people play football than rugby.

The FA reckons it's 11 million.

400,000 divided by 240 is a 1/1666 chance to be a pro in the top division.

11 million divided by 250 is 1 in 44,000.

It's not that they're not arsed, the odds of being top level are just that much smaller.

Winnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:13 pm

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

I think its more that there is less need of natural ability for rugby
If you are surrounded by it from a young age and are taught correctly there is a strong chance you can make it.

Football however is a god given talent, you either have it or you dont

Lets keep an eye on Sergio Agueros kid, his grandad was also Diego Maradona
In rugby family its a 99% certainty he makes it as a player if he wants it

Winnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:13 pm

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

I think its more that there is less need of natural ability for rugby
If you are surrounded by it from a young age and are taught correctly there is a strong chance you can make it.

Football however is a god given talent, you either have it or you dont

Correct, and the right school and/or parents will open rugby doors.

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:07 pm

towny wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:13 pm

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:06 pm

MrDominator wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:01 am There are far too many sons of players in ruggers. Cricket (in England at any rate) has the same problem.

It's a classic sign of a narrow gene/talent pool and a corresponding lack of access to the finest physical specimens.

You get barely any sons of pro soccer players who also make it as a pro, because the level of competition in soccer is much higher and the size of the talent pool is much bigger.

There are plenty of sons of players in the NFL.

It's almost like having good genes, connections and plenty of money gives you an advantage in life

Another sport with barriers to entry? Very technical game so growing up with an expert is possibly a big advantage. I don't know. Definitely will give you good genes.

But where are the sons of the soccer players and 100m sprinters? Money, genes and connections doesn't appear to be a factor in the sports that (may?) have the most level playing fields.

I googled a list, but to be honest I don't think I could name a full XI of famous soccer players. What does David Beckham's son do? Probably a singer.

Quick attempt of a Sons XI:

1. Kasper Schmeichel
2. Paolo Maldini
3. Alex Bruce
4. Daley Blind
5. Jamie Redknapp
6. Frank Lampard (Jnr)
7. Nigel Clough
8. Tom Ince
9. Justin Kluivert
10. Jordi Cruyff
11. Haaland

Very Anglo-centric, unsurprisingly.

mr bungle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:49 am

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:23 am I'm sure Simon Poidevins son is playing for the LA Giltinis

He is. The team is new to me. Named after a cocktail. How L.A.

AAC and Giteau there too.

And Dave Denis too.