Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

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towny
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by towny »

wamberal wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:13 am Narendra Modi has farked his nation up, holding huge political rallies, but some of his fellow Hindus have aided and abetted him, some of those farking religious practices are just stupid under the current environment.

We should take care of our own citizens, those here, and those there, to the maximum extent possible. Unfortunately those currently in India are stuck there. Not our fault, the Indian Government's fault.

Blame them.
It was inevitable that India was going to get smashed. A lot of people living in close proximity in a humid environment.

Modi is a prized cnut though. No doubt about it.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Anonymous 1 »

jdogscoop wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:35 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:04 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:59 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:53 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:50 am Sweden's covid deaths is 14k, Australia is around 900. At Sweden's rate, Australia would 35k deaths, not to mention the fact that it's a compounding problem.

I don't think anyone wants that.
Firstly, no it wouldn't. Australia doesn't have to deal with the virus as gateway to Northern Europe in the middle of a long, cold winter. They two countries are in completely different situations.

Secondly don't float idiotic alternatives as if they're the only option. Nobody is suggesting Australia eats 35K covid deaths as if that's the default alternative.
Even 1k deaths is too much. Enough for a hard lockdown of 4 months if we're going by the standard of last year.
This is just a demonstration of how completely clueless and shit people are at analysing this. No offence again, you're not the only one.

Do you know how many people the flu kills in Australia every year? While you're Googling that, keep in mind that it includes are high percentage of babies and children who are, unlike corona, particularly susceptible.
You're on a burning platform here, Mog.

Face facts. Your home country got it right, and your adopted country got it wrong.

I'm a beneficiary of that.

Can I have your old bedroom?
:thumbup:
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Muttonbirds
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Muttonbirds »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:37 am I don’t agree it’s better to make use of existing facilities. Hotels have fundamental flaws when used for quarantining a highly infectious virus.

And the staffing issues are a non issue. Have people working an 8 week cycle. 4 on, 2 in quarantine, 2 off. We manage fly in fly out for the mines, why not now. Sure wages will be higher but it’s a lot less than shutting down 2 million people for 3 days every couple of months.
I understand the case for dedicated facilities, particularly as this global pandemic might need to be managed for some years. The next, well can't think about that right now.

But I feel that you use the resources you have at hand to capacity. In AUS and NZ it has worked really well, despite the sniping from the sidelines.

Remember, using hotels to quarantine keeps that industry alive in a situation they would otherwise instantly fall over, having to be mothballed, etc.

I didn't listen carefully but VIC's dedicated quarantine facility proposal for incoming students might have merit as they are coming in for one purpose and don't require comfortable treatment - a barrack quarantine facility mimics university dorms anyway.

This has merit because all the rich people in the world will be looking to sent their little ones somewhere safe to learn how to screw the world. Once they're in, they're in, and it would also draw numbers of high level teaching staff to our place too, maybe even long term.

NZ and AUS can really capitalise here.
Last edited by Muttonbirds on Sat May 01, 2021 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sefton
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Sefton »

The lengths people will go to to keep Towny out of their country.
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UncleFB
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by UncleFB »

guy smiley wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:32 am Australians and Kiwis have sacrificed a lot to gain the circumstances we are enjoying now... free of Covid.

It’s not an issue for us outside of managed quarantine and voluntary contact tracing.

Not an issue.

Do we want our fellow citizens home with us?

Yes.

Do we want our governments to do more to get them home?

Yes, particularly in Australia.

How could that be managed with regard to the current escalating situation in India?

That’s the million dollar question... but to my mind, considering the high likelihood of contagious travellers from the subcontinent and the numbers of those people involved, a mass evacuation and quarantine solution is manageable using existing detention facilities like Christmas Island... because all travellers would be coming from a hotspot and segregation en masse is a different beast with those people than it is with arrivals from varied ports of origin. Additionally, the government is flying supplies off shore and those planes return empty. There are seats available.

We could do this. We just need the happy clapping fucktard in chief to get out of the way and let it happen.
The Coronacast podcast suggests that Oz sending vaccines to embassies for Oz citizens as an option, which would allow them to increase the numbers of returnees.

I assume the govt want to avoid sending people to the former detention facilities - when you think of some of the meltdowns from people in 4 star hotels they'll likely riot.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by towny »

UncleFB wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:44 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:32 am Australians and Kiwis have sacrificed a lot to gain the circumstances we are enjoying now... free of Covid.

It’s not an issue for us outside of managed quarantine and voluntary contact tracing.

Not an issue.

Do we want our fellow citizens home with us?

Yes.

Do we want our governments to do more to get them home?

Yes, particularly in Australia.

How could that be managed with regard to the current escalating situation in India?

That’s the million dollar question... but to my mind, considering the high likelihood of contagious travellers from the subcontinent and the numbers of those people involved, a mass evacuation and quarantine solution is manageable using existing detention facilities like Christmas Island... because all travellers would be coming from a hotspot and segregation en masse is a different beast with those people than it is with arrivals from varied ports of origin. Additionally, the government is flying supplies off shore and those planes return empty. There are seats available.

We could do this. We just need the happy clapping fucktard in chief to get out of the way and let it happen.
The Coronacast podcast suggests that Oz sending vaccines to embassies for Oz citizens as an option, which would allow them to increase the numbers of returnees.

I assume the govt want to avoid sending people to the former detention facilities - when you think of some of the meltdowns from people in 4 star hotels they'll likely riot.
It's probably cheaper to send people to the hotels tbf. I don't think the issue is the lack of beds.
Sending vaccines to the embassies would be a good idea in theory, but in reality Australia will be the last place in the world to organise vaccines for its own residents.
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UncleFB
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by UncleFB »

towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:47 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:44 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:32 am Australians and Kiwis have sacrificed a lot to gain the circumstances we are enjoying now... free of Covid.

It’s not an issue for us outside of managed quarantine and voluntary contact tracing.

Not an issue.

Do we want our fellow citizens home with us?

Yes.

Do we want our governments to do more to get them home?

Yes, particularly in Australia.

How could that be managed with regard to the current escalating situation in India?

That’s the million dollar question... but to my mind, considering the high likelihood of contagious travellers from the subcontinent and the numbers of those people involved, a mass evacuation and quarantine solution is manageable using existing detention facilities like Christmas Island... because all travellers would be coming from a hotspot and segregation en masse is a different beast with those people than it is with arrivals from varied ports of origin. Additionally, the government is flying supplies off shore and those planes return empty. There are seats available.

We could do this. We just need the happy clapping fucktard in chief to get out of the way and let it happen.
The Coronacast podcast suggests that Oz sending vaccines to embassies for Oz citizens as an option, which would allow them to increase the numbers of returnees.

I assume the govt want to avoid sending people to the former detention facilities - when you think of some of the meltdowns from people in 4 star hotels they'll likely riot.
It's probably cheaper to send people to the hotels tbf. I don't think the issue is the lack of beds.
Sending vaccines to the embassies would be a good idea in theory, but in reality Australia will be the last place in the world to organise vaccines for its own residents.
Haha yeah, TBF they're struggling to manage the roll out in Oz without trying it overseas.
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Sandstorm
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Sandstorm »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:47 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:44 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:41 am Would a few cases slip by? Yes, probably. But it's really just not that big a deal.
I think you'll find the vast majority of Australians would disagree with you Mog.
The vast majority of Australians seem to think they are dealing with something between ebola and the black plague. I had a coronavirus. I had a headache for a day.
Don’t you have elderly parents in Australia, safe from Covid? Are you prepared to send them on a 2 week holiday to India to see if they catch & survive this benign virus?
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Farva
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:30 am
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:37 am I don’t agree it’s better to make use of existing facilities. Hotels have fundamental flaws when used for quarantining a highly infectious virus.

And the staffing issues are a non issue. Have people working an 8 week cycle. 4 on, 2 in quarantine, 2 off. We manage fly in fly out for the mines, why not now. Sure wages will be higher but it’s a lot less than shutting down 2 million people for 3 days every couple of months.
I understand the case for dedicated facilities, particularly as this global pandemic might need to be managed for some years. The next, well can't think about that right now.

But I feel that you use the resources you have at hand to capacity. In AUS and NZ it has worked really well, despite the sniping from the sidelines.

Remember, using hotels to quarantine keeps that industry alive in a situation they would otherwise instantly fall over, having to be mothballed, etc.

I didn't listen carefully but VIC's dedicated quarantine facility proposal for incoming students might have merit as they are coming in for one purpose and don't require comfortable treatment - a barrack quarantine facility mimics university dorms anyway.

This has merit because all the rich people in the world will be looking to sent their little ones somewhere safe to learn how to screw the world. Once they're in, they're in, and it would also draw numbers of high level teaching staff to our place too, maybe even long term.

NZ and AUS can really capitalise here.
Every month or so we have a breakout from the hotel quarantine into the community.
This then results in cities shutting down. How much would a 3 day lockdown cost in Brisbane or Perth? There are more than 2m in each of those cities.
It breaks out because in hotel quarantine air is circulated throughout. These factories are not secure. Workers are constantly being exposed. Inevitably one gets it. They then go home and infect their family and we have an outbreak.
In a dedicated facility we can better control that. And even if a worker gets it, we can better isolate them. The risks for society is far less.
We have done well in NZ and Aus. That doesn’t mean there aren’t things we can do.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by towny »

A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
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Farva
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:25 am A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
How do I know? The news.
Will it be ready? We will need hotel quarantine for years to come. And this won’t be the last pandemic. And Howard springs is about to rev up to 100%.
Will it work? It’s a quarantine facility not a hotel. It will work better. I remember a TV show on the other week (4 corners?) that said as much with experts that weren’t bimboman.
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MungoMan
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by MungoMan »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:04 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:59 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:53 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:50 am Sweden's covid deaths is 14k, Australia is around 900. At Sweden's rate, Australia would 35k deaths, not to mention the fact that it's a compounding problem.

I don't think anyone wants that.
Firstly, no it wouldn't. Australia doesn't have to deal with the virus as gateway to Northern Europe in the middle of a long, cold winter. They two countries are in completely different situations.

Secondly don't float idiotic alternatives as if they're the only option. Nobody is suggesting Australia eats 35K covid deaths as if that's the default alternative.
Even 1k deaths is too much. Enough for a hard lockdown of 4 months if we're going by the standard of last year.
This is just a demonstration of how completely clueless and shit people are at analysing this. No offence again, you're not the only one.

Do you know how many people the flu kills in Australia every year? While you're Googling that, keep in mind that it includes are high percentage of babies and children who are, unlike corona, particularly susceptible.
If you had any clue whatsofúckingever about influenza in Australia I suspect you wouldn't have posted such arrant nonsense.

According to the Cwth Department of Health's influenza season summaries, flu fatalities across completed reporting seasons (generally, late April to late September altho' it varies a bit) are all over the place like a madwoman's shit. See below:
2020 - 37
2019 - 812
2018 - 57
2017 - 745
2016 - 92
2015 - 97
2014 - 57
2013 - 27

Even allowing for the mandated flu reporting season not being an entire year plus yada yada in re reporting methodology (see DOH boilerplate in footnote*), only two of those eight years could come close to matching COVID-19 associated deaths in Australia from early 2020 until now.

The other thing is that, in Australia at least, your following assertion is bollocks: 'keep in mind that it includes are high percentage of babies and children who are, unlike corona, particularly susceptible.'.

The report for each of year listed above gives a median age for influenza fatalities and, for five of those years the median age was 80 or greater, for one between 60 and 70, and for two between 60 and 70. Nothing bears out 'high percentage' or 'particularly susceptible', although the ranges provided in certain reports make it clear that influenza in Australia from 2013 until now has killed some of the very young whereas COVID-19 has not. (I haven't located a confirmed local COVID-19 associated death of anyone younger than 20).

Finally, no googles were molested in the making of this post. I bookmarked the Cwth DOH influenza reporting page last year and know where to locate ABC News' COVID-19 stats page.


* Note that the number of influenza-associated deaths reported to the NNDSS does not represent the true mortality associated with this disease. The number of deaths is reliant on the follow up of cases to determine the outcome of their infection. The follow up of cases is not a requirement of notification, and are only inclusive of laboratory-confirmed cases of influenza. Due to retrospective revision, the variation across jurisdictions in methodology, representativeness and timeliness of death data, and reporting of an outcome of infection not being a requirement of notification, year on year comparisons of deaths in notified cases of influenza may not be reliable.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by bimboman »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:31 am
towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:25 am A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
How do I know? The news.
Will it be ready? We will need hotel quarantine for years to come. And this won’t be the last pandemic. And Howard springs is about to rev up to 100%.
Will it work? It’s a quarantine facility not a hotel. It will work better. I remember a TV show on the other week (4 corners?) that said as much with experts that weren’t bimboman.


Sorry?

You’re saying “just in case “ you’ll now have border quarantine for ever ?

And you ridicule other posters?

:lol:
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Muttonbirds »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:22 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:30 am
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:37 am I don’t agree it’s better to make use of existing facilities. Hotels have fundamental flaws when used for quarantining a highly infectious virus.

And the staffing issues are a non issue. Have people working an 8 week cycle. 4 on, 2 in quarantine, 2 off. We manage fly in fly out for the mines, why not now. Sure wages will be higher but it’s a lot less than shutting down 2 million people for 3 days every couple of months.
I understand the case for dedicated facilities, particularly as this global pandemic might need to be managed for some years. The next, well can't think about that right now.

But I feel that you use the resources you have at hand to capacity. In AUS and NZ it has worked really well, despite the sniping from the sidelines.

Remember, using hotels to quarantine keeps that industry alive in a situation they would otherwise instantly fall over, having to be mothballed, etc.

I didn't listen carefully but VIC's dedicated quarantine facility proposal for incoming students might have merit as they are coming in for one purpose and don't require comfortable treatment - a barrack quarantine facility mimics university dorms anyway.

This has merit because all the rich people in the world will be looking to sent their little ones somewhere safe to learn how to screw the world. Once they're in, they're in, and it would also draw numbers of high level teaching staff to our place too, maybe even long term.

NZ and AUS can really capitalise here.
Every month or so we have a breakout from the hotel quarantine into the community.
This then results in cities shutting down. How much would a 3 day lockdown cost in Brisbane or Perth? There are more than 2m in each of those cities.
It breaks out because in hotel quarantine air is circulated throughout. These factories are not secure. Workers are constantly being exposed. Inevitably one gets it. They then go home and infect their family and we have an outbreak.
In a dedicated facility we can better control that. And even if a worker gets it, we can better isolate them. The risks for society is far less.
We have done well in NZ and Aus. That doesn’t mean there aren’t things we can do.
I get that but the 3 day lockdowns are becoming fewer and farther between because we get better at MIQ processes all the time. The ventilation thing is an issue and that's why I asked for an upgrade in existing hotel systems. The hope is that this would be sufficient to combat arrival to worker transmission.

And how much do short lockdowns cost really? I think the cost are always inflated by industry lobbies.

Sometimes when I'm really busy and stressed out, and I am frequently because NZ is running at full capacity, I wish for the five week lockdown of April 2020. It was utter bliss.
Last edited by Muttonbirds on Sat May 01, 2021 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
towny
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by towny »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:31 am
towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:25 am A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
How do I know? The news.
Will it be ready? We will need hotel quarantine for years to come. And this won’t be the last pandemic. And Howard springs is about to rev up to 100%.
Will it work? It’s a quarantine facility not a hotel. It will work better. I remember a TV show on the other week (4 corners?) that said as much with experts that weren’t bimboman.
Howard Springs in the NT? Okay.
The NT hasn’t had Covid issues - how’s the local community going to go if there is a breakout?

Once Australia has gone through its vaccination programme, is it really not intending to open up and get on with life? Tourism, etc is a big deal - is that all over? What’s the expectation? Will tourists and business travellers all have to fly into Darwin and spend the first 2 weeks in a camp accommodation before they get on with their visit?
There comes a point where the trade-offs aren't worth it. I'm not sure where the line is but 2 weeks in Howard Springs is way past that point.
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Farva
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:34 am
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:31 am
towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:25 am A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
How do I know? The news.
Will it be ready? We will need hotel quarantine for years to come. And this won’t be the last pandemic. And Howard springs is about to rev up to 100%.
Will it work? It’s a quarantine facility not a hotel. It will work better. I remember a TV show on the other week (4 corners?) that said as much with experts that weren’t bimboman.
Howard Springs in the NT? Okay.
The NT hasn’t had Covid issues - how’s the local community going to go if there is a breakout?

Once Australia has gone through its vaccination programme, is it really not intending to open up and get on with life? Tourism, etc is a big deal - is that all over? What’s the expectation? Will tourists and business travellers all have to fly into Darwin and spend the first 2 weeks in a camp accommodation before they get on with their visit?
There comes a point where the trade-offs aren't worth it. I'm not sure where the line is but 2 weeks in Howard Springs is way past that point.
Australia is very slow to vaccinate. It’s unlikely that we will have everyone vaccinated until sometime next year. Until then hotel quarantine will stay for all people coming in to Australia.
Some countries will take much longer and given the vaccine only reduces the risk of catching Covid, it’s likely that we will enforce quarantine on people coming from countries that are not well vaccinated for much longer.
It is also unlikely that this will be the last pandemic in our lifetime. Will humans pushing ever more into habitats, and global warming putting stressed on animal populations it’s only going to become more common. We can use these facilities more often.
And by using a dedicated quarantine facility that has been constructed specifically to reduce risk of outbreaks, it’s unlikely NT will experience one.
And Howard springs is an example of one facility. Vic is talking about one, I think WA is too. Each state should have them and they should be federally run (quarantine is a federal responsibility).
Finally, we send refugees to Nauru for 5 years into camps far worse than Howard Springs. If we think 2 weeks in Howard Springs is too much we might have a lot to rethink.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by towny »

If it’s temporary - no worries. Of course, if it takes 18 months to vaccinate Australia then it’s a disgrace but we know who to blame for that.

I wanted to know if there was an expectation that Australia would have rigid restrictions for many years - to me that would be ridiculous.

I wouldn’t think it’s reasonable to expect the country to set up facilities to safeguard against future pandemics; especially as the makeshift solution using hotels has been such a success. And it’s still not clear to me why Howard Springs would be better - irs a dump with shared meal and recreation areas miles from anything, yet still has the workers and so has risks. Maybe if we think we are being proactive we feel like we are in control?
Incidentally, the solution set up by the states saved an industry so another positive. Why not just have a plan that can be rolled out to the hotels in case the worst hits? But that’s a policy issue that can be decided at the ballot box.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

I guess it’s a play off.
I don’t think we will have tight restrictions once the vaccine is rolled out and other countries are vaccinated. I do think there will be for countries that are not.

But the playoff is whether you think the hotel quarantine works well enough. Our reaction to outbreaks has been lockdown of cities. Does that play off the cost of building a facility. To me it does.
Perhaps in the future we need to consider better policy to deal with outbreaks when they eventually happen from hotel quarantine.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Sandstorm »

towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:25 am A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
Aircon? In a prison for Australian immigrants?
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 10:12 am If it’s temporary - no worries. Of course, if it takes 18 months to vaccinate Australia then it’s a disgrace but we know who to blame
I've been refreshing the "Check here this week" page on my 1b application

Nothing
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

bimboman wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:33 am
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:31 am
towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:25 am A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
How do I know? The news.
Will it be ready? We will need hotel quarantine for years to come. And this won’t be the last pandemic. And Howard springs is about to rev up to 100%.
Will it work? It’s a quarantine facility not a hotel. It will work better. I remember a TV show on the other week (4 corners?) that said as much with experts that weren’t bimboman.


Sorry?

You’re saying “just in case “ you’ll now have border quarantine for ever ?

And you ridicule other posters?

:lol:
I said nothing of the sort.
And you have absolutely no credibility.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 1:41 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:31 pm
shanky wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:23 pm Wow. If only this wasn’t simply a thought bubble that has been widely condemned as unconstitutional and probably unlawful

But carry on with the pearl clutching about human rights :lol:
This is from Australian Humanist of the Year 2014 and leading international human rights lawyer on Australia’s border policy
"International law recognises the strong bond between individuals and their homeland and no respectable government would impose travel caps to prevent, for over a year, its citizens from returning if they are prepared to do quarantine,” he said..
In response Australia have no grounded flights from just India, which is even more bizarre given that the Indian variant is not considered a VOC. It appears that naked racism won the day there.
Your just being a dickhead.
But many will read this that don’t know the answer here.
And if you are going to lob out accusations of racism without support just demonstrates you to be a genuine bellend.

Now, why are we grounding flights from India? It’s because the percentage of people returning from India are much more likely to have Covid. The numbers of Covid in our quarantine system is dramatically increasing and that is putting the risk of an outbreak from hotel quarantine at a much higher level. When we see outbreaks into the community we see shutdowns. That puts millions at home in quarantine and comes with a huge economic and mental health cost
It’s racist.

You aren’t the only ones btw, we have also added India. Despite them not having a VOC.

The decision to ban India is 100% racist. The US had hundreds of thousands of cases in January and no ban.

You are just upset that the positive image of your country is taking a bit of a hit over this- after you got lots of positive press for a year. Unfortunately many argued for your system, based on their personal frustration. But the brutality of it was seen early on here and it’s been walked back on. Australia are going deeper into this insanity, banning citizens coming home and wishing to put human beings into quarantine right beside animals.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

mabunch78 wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:42 am He got one thing right, Australians on here are not batting an eyelid.

The situation is disgraceful and would surely change the way you feel towards your home country if you happened to be one of the unlucky absentees. And I use the word unlucky because for the vast majority, that's what it is. A large proportion of Australians travel abroad under normal circumstances with some regularity, if not a relatively high frequency. No-one including those who happened to be within the country when the drawbridge went up, would travel with the presumption that the country would not necessarily try to help them return in some way if disaster strikes. Yet here we are. It's a dystopian nightmare passed off as normal, sensible, rational.

I must remind myself next time I board that one of the biggest risks I'm taking is actively becoming part of a minority...
:thumbup:
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Farva
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

Stop being a dickhead. The number of cases of Covid in hotel quarantine has skyrocketed and it’s all from India.
We can see we are getting far more cases than when the US had high numbers.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:10 am The Australian government has trampled on the rights of some of its citizens (like me) to protect the lives of other Australian citizens (like Thomas).

I don't like it one bit. But what's the alternative? The world losing a comic genius is too big a cross for me to bear.

Choices are all about trade-offs and we all have to make them every day. The government has made a choice most Australians (including me) think is the right one, regardless of how big the price seems to be.
There is another choice.

South Korea allows home quarantine for local residents and citizens. They have a lower death rate per capita than Australia.

The obsession with MHQ amongst some is strange, but even if you support it, when the system can’t cope you have to change course. Australia have defacto locked tens of thousands of citizens out and have been taken to the UN over same. Now they have confirmed it’s a criminal offence from one party of the world. I’m ashamed that so many here became enamoured with their approach (which couldn’t even be replicated) and ignored the trade offs involved. Australians are at least committed to this brutal treatment of their citizens, far more citizens that would die from Covid anyway.
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shanky
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by shanky »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:39 am
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 1:41 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:31 pm
shanky wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:23 pm Wow. If only this wasn’t simply a thought bubble that has been widely condemned as unconstitutional and probably unlawful

But carry on with the pearl clutching about human rights :lol:
This is from Australian Humanist of the Year 2014 and leading international human rights lawyer on Australia’s border policy
"International law recognises the strong bond between individuals and their homeland and no respectable government would impose travel caps to prevent, for over a year, its citizens from returning if they are prepared to do quarantine,” he said..
In response Australia have no grounded flights from just India, which is even more bizarre given that the Indian variant is not considered a VOC. It appears that naked racism won the day there.
Your just being a dickhead.
But many will read this that don’t know the answer here.
And if you are going to lob out accusations of racism without support just demonstrates you to be a genuine bellend.

Now, why are we grounding flights from India? It’s because the percentage of people returning from India are much more likely to have Covid. The numbers of Covid in our quarantine system is dramatically increasing and that is putting the risk of an outbreak from hotel quarantine at a much higher level. When we see outbreaks into the community we see shutdowns. That puts millions at home in quarantine and comes with a huge economic and mental health cost
It’s racist.

You aren’t the only ones btw, we have also added India. Despite them not having a VOC.

The decision to ban India is 100% racist. The US had hundreds of thousands of cases in January and no ban.

You are just upset that the positive image of your country is taking a bit of a hit over this- after you got lots of positive press for a year. Unfortunately many argued for your system, based on their personal frustration. But the brutality of it was seen early on here and it’s been walked back on. Australia are going deeper into this insanity, banning citizens coming home and wishing to put human beings into quarantine right beside animals.
Oh. Just fcvk off will you, you hysterical queen
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

India is believed to actually be recording somewhere between 10 and 30 times more cases than are recorded. It’s much bigger than I the US.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by MungoMan »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:41 am Stop being a dickhead. The number of cases of Covid in hotel quarantine has skyrocketed and it’s all from India.
We can see we are getting far more cases than when the US had high numbers.
Principally as a consequence of having recently (esp. pre-plague) having had a lot more Indian than American visitors.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:41 am Stop being a dickhead. The number of cases of Covid in hotel quarantine has skyrocketed and it’s all from India.
We can see we are getting far more cases than when the US had high numbers.
Calling me a dickhead will not give you moral absolution here.

Totally shitcanning India is completely racist. The reaction in Perth to the man who had returned from India and was in quarantine revealed an ugly racist underbelly.
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shanky
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by shanky »

How many Indian people live in Ireland?

Pro tip: if there are fewer than here, then you’re racists

See how it works? Cretin
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

shanky wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:48 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:39 am
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 1:41 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:31 pm
shanky wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:23 pm Wow. If only this wasn’t simply a thought bubble that has been widely condemned as unconstitutional and probably unlawful

But carry on with the pearl clutching about human rights :lol:
This is from Australian Humanist of the Year 2014 and leading international human rights lawyer on Australia’s border policy
"International law recognises the strong bond between individuals and their homeland and no respectable government would impose travel caps to prevent, for over a year, its citizens from returning if they are prepared to do quarantine,” he said..
In response Australia have no grounded flights from just India, which is even more bizarre given that the Indian variant is not considered a VOC. It appears that naked racism won the day there.
Your just being a dickhead.
But many will read this that don’t know the answer here.
And if you are going to lob out accusations of racism without support just demonstrates you to be a genuine bellend.

Now, why are we grounding flights from India? It’s because the percentage of people returning from India are much more likely to have Covid. The numbers of Covid in our quarantine system is dramatically increasing and that is putting the risk of an outbreak from hotel quarantine at a much higher level. When we see outbreaks into the community we see shutdowns. That puts millions at home in quarantine and comes with a huge economic and mental health cost
It’s racist.

You aren’t the only ones btw, we have also added India. Despite them not having a VOC.

The decision to ban India is 100% racist. The US had hundreds of thousands of cases in January and no ban.

You are just upset that the positive image of your country is taking a bit of a hit over this- after you got lots of positive press for a year. Unfortunately many argued for your system, based on their personal frustration. But the brutality of it was seen early on here and it’s been walked back on. Australia are going deeper into this insanity, banning citizens coming home and wishing to put human beings into quarantine right beside animals.
Oh. Just fcvk off will you, you hysterical queen
Your anger and taunts won’t give you the moral upper hand

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguar ... lians-home

I don’t know how anyone could reasonably defend this.

Both men have already been vaccinated for Covid-19 and are willing to do 14 days of quarantine on arrival to Australia, their supporters say.
The complaints cite the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which says “no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his [or her] own country”. They argue the government’s caps on returned travellers and the states’ limits on hotel quarantine places are impinging on their right to return.
Do you just forget all about it because you can go to a restaraunt if you want? The tyranny of the majority is not how respectable nations behave. You previously squealed over Europe putting export controls in on vaccines because despite Europe being the leading worldwide producer of vaccines for the rest of the world for months, they needed to look after their citizens. You seem to have a double standard, willing to throw lots of others off the bus to save your paradise.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by UncleFB »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:02 pm
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:41 am Stop being a dickhead. The number of cases of Covid in hotel quarantine has skyrocketed and it’s all from India.
We can see we are getting far more cases than when the US had high numbers.
Calling me a dickhead will not give you moral absolution here.

Totally shitcanning India is completely racist. The reaction in Perth to the man who had returned from India and was in quarantine revealed an ugly racist underbelly.
You are being a dickhead. Back in December 2020 Ireland (and a bunch of other countries) halted flights for a time period from the UK due to the new variant.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

Labelling a country racist without any understanding of the issue just demonstrates you don’t have a clue.

Covid cases in hotel quarantine have skyrocketed. They are all coming from India. This is a huge risk to Australia. It is not a racist policy in any way. You are completely wrong here.

Whether it is a reasonable policy is a different story.

You being a dickhead is entirely accurate.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Mog The Almighty »

MungoMan wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:31 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:04 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:59 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:53 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:50 am Sweden's covid deaths is 14k, Australia is around 900. At Sweden's rate, Australia would 35k deaths, not to mention the fact that it's a compounding problem.

I don't think anyone wants that.
Firstly, no it wouldn't. Australia doesn't have to deal with the virus as gateway to Northern Europe in the middle of a long, cold winter. They two countries are in completely different situations.

Secondly don't float idiotic alternatives as if they're the only option. Nobody is suggesting Australia eats 35K covid deaths as if that's the default alternative.
Even 1k deaths is too much. Enough for a hard lockdown of 4 months if we're going by the standard of last year.
This is just a demonstration of how completely clueless and shit people are at analysing this. No offence again, you're not the only one.

Do you know how many people the flu kills in Australia every year? While you're Googling that, keep in mind that it includes are high percentage of babies and children who are, unlike corona, particularly susceptible.
If you had any clue whatsofúckingever about influenza in Australia I suspect you wouldn't have posted such arrant nonsense.

According to the Cwth Department of Health's influenza season summaries, flu fatalities across completed reporting seasons (generally, late April to late September altho' it varies a bit) are all over the place like a madwoman's shit. See below:
2020 - 37
2019 - 812
2018 - 57
2017 - 745
2016 - 92
2015 - 97
2014 - 57
2013 - 27

Even allowing for the mandated flu reporting season not being an entire year plus yada yada in re reporting methodology (see DOH boilerplate in footnote*), only two of those eight years could come close to matching COVID-19 associated deaths in Australia from early 2020 until now.

The other thing is that, in Australia at least, your following assertion is bollocks: 'keep in mind that it includes are high percentage of babies and children who are, unlike corona, particularly susceptible.'.

The report for each of year listed above gives a median age for influenza fatalities and, for five of those years the median age was 80 or greater, for one between 60 and 70, and for two between 60 and 70. Nothing bears out 'high percentage' or 'particularly susceptible', although the ranges provided in certain reports make it clear that influenza in Australia from 2013 until now has killed some of the very young whereas COVID-19 has not. (I haven't located a confirmed local COVID-19 associated death of anyone younger than 20).

Finally, no googles were molested in the making of this post. I bookmarked the Cwth DOH influenza reporting page last year and know where to locate ABC News' COVID-19 stats page.


* Note that the number of influenza-associated deaths reported to the NNDSS does not represent the true mortality associated with this disease. The number of deaths is reliant on the follow up of cases to determine the outcome of their infection. The follow up of cases is not a requirement of notification, and are only inclusive of laboratory-confirmed cases of influenza. Due to retrospective revision, the variation across jurisdictions in methodology, representativeness and timeliness of death data, and reporting of an outcome of infection not being a requirement of notification, year on year comparisons of deaths in notified cases of influenza may not be reliable.
It's not ignorant nonsense, but congratulations on your Googling skills, whether you had it bookmarked from a previous Google or not.

The point was that CI said that even 1000 deaths it too many. I've heard other posters say that even one death is too many. Flu deaths in Australia have been known to push 1000 a year during a bad year, but we're not banning citizens from entering the country on those years. That was (I thought quite obviously) the point you knuckle-dragger. Not that the flu is just as deadly as coronavirus.
Last edited by Mog The Almighty on Sat May 01, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by bimboman »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 10:52 am
bimboman wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:33 am
Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:31 am
towny wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:25 am A dedicated facility? Where? Is it ready? Why will it not have a breakout?
How are you sure that the circulated air (air conditioning?) is the cause of the breakouts?
How do I know? The news.
Will it be ready? We will need hotel quarantine for years to come. And this won’t be the last pandemic. And Howard springs is about to rev up to 100%.
Will it work? It’s a quarantine facility not a hotel. It will work better. I remember a TV show on the other week (4 corners?) that said as much with experts that weren’t bimboman.


Sorry?

You’re saying “just in case “ you’ll now have border quarantine for ever ?

And you ridicule other posters?

:lol:
I said nothing of the sort.
And you have absolutely no credibility.
And this won’t be the last pandemic.
:lol:
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Farva »

What are you dribbling on about?
Do you think it will be the last pandemic? Do you not think Australia will not enact the same policy then as they are doing now if possible?
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by shanky »

Blackrock Idiot purports to be a lawyer, while failing to understand the very simple legal concept of the difference between a temporary measure (injunction) and a permanent policy.

The Australian government will not be able to stop citizens from returning on a permanent basis. Everyone knows this, even third-cock-from-the-left junior corporate lawyers at middling shithouse manufacturing firms.

God knows where this realisation leaves this clown. :lol:
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by bimboman »

Farva wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:41 am Stop being a dickhead. The number of cases of Covid in hotel quarantine has skyrocketed and it’s all from India.
We can see we are getting far more cases than when the US had high numbers.


Is there a link for these cases from India ?
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by bimboman »

shanky wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:17 pm Blackrock Idiot purports to be a lawyer, while failing to understand the very simple legal concept of the difference between a temporary measure (injunction) and a permanent policy.

The Australian government will not be able to stop citizens from returning on a permanent basis. Everyone knows this, even third-cock-from-the-left junior corporate lawyers at middling shithouse manufacturing firms.

God knows where this realisation leaves this clown. :lol:

“While actually making the return of some citizens illegal”. :thumbup:
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Re: Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Thomas wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:59 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:29 am
Enjoy your beers.
Will do, man. Might even pop down to the pub. All I have to do is check in at the venue using the state government COVID tracking app and ask the kind bartender for a tall frosty one.

I won't have too many though because my youngest has club rugby tomorrow morning along with a couple of thousand other young boys.
So you're basically living just like everyone else, just more scared. Congratulations. :roll: I guess if you were led to believe that you were dealing with the black plague it would seem like an achievement to be able to have a beer in a public place like normal people have been doing for the past twelve months.

Regardless, if things are so rosy back home, maybe you should spare a thought for other people. I guess those brown-skinned ones stuck in India aren't "real" Australians, right? I'm quite happy to stay in a relatively sane country until this all blows over but some others are doing it really tough. The fact that you support this political grandstanding and complete neglect of citizens by the government, right when they're in desperate need, while bragging about your frosty beer is indicative only of you being selfish prick.

As an after-thought, it's telling how quickly the social justice warriors flip sides as soon as it's the slightest little bit inconvenient or risky to their kids little league game. Not that it actually is, but all they have to do is believe it. I guess it's easy to be all shouty and sanctimonious when you don't have to a risk as much as a beer to stand by your moral convictions.
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