NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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Ali's Choice
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:48 am A genuine question because I know nothing about the topic -

Could a transgender person change their gender on a weekly or daily basis? ie could Elliott Page decide that he is a woman tomorrow?
Bigots would have asked the same "genuine questions" about gay people and their sexual orientation a few decades back.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Jerome Manning »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:50 am
Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:48 am A genuine question because I know nothing about the topic -

Could a transgender person change their gender on a weekly or daily basis? ie could Elliott Page decide that he is a woman tomorrow?
Bigots would have asked the same "genuine questions" about gay people and their sexual orientation a few decades back.
that's easier to answer. If your sexuality is switching back and forth then you are just bisexual. And that's obvious that that exists.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:44 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:39 am A. transgender woman is a geezer
Sadly this is what this entire debate boils down to for most people. Thank you anonymous for having the honesty to illustrate that most people who are against Transgender inclusion in sport are simply transphobic :thumbup: I appreciate your honesty and your contribution to this discussion.
Fark you and your transphobic bullshit. I have no problem with people calling themselves whatever they want. but I wouldn't jump out of a plane with laptop strapped to my back because a bunch of crunts insist I call and treat it as a parachute. Its a farking laptop
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Ali's Choice
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:50 am
Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:48 am A genuine question because I know nothing about the topic -

Could a transgender person change their gender on a weekly or daily basis? ie could Elliott Page decide that he is a woman tomorrow?
Bigots would have asked the same "genuine questions" about gay people and their sexual orientation a few decades back.
that's easier to answer. If your sexuality is switching back and forth then you are just bisexual. And that's obvious that that exists.
You realise that bi-sexual people don't "switch back and forth" between sexual orientations, right?
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Ali's Choice
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:53 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:44 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:39 am A. transgender woman is a geezer
Sadly this is what this entire debate boils down to for most people. Thank you anonymous for having the honesty to illustrate that most people who are against Transgender inclusion in sport are simply transphobic :thumbup: I appreciate your honesty and your contribution to this discussion.
Fark you and your transphobic bullshit. I have no problem with people calling themselves whatever they want. but I wouldn't jump out of a plane with laptop strapped to my back because a bunch of crunts insist I call and treat it as a parachute. Its a farking laptop
I would have thought that someone who once maintained a small army of different internet personas would have been more sensitive to people with fluid identities.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Jerome Manning »

I dunno, it might be complex. I imagine it varies from person to person.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:56 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:53 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:44 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:39 am A. transgender woman is a geezer
Sadly this is what this entire debate boils down to for most people. Thank you anonymous for having the honesty to illustrate that most people who are against Transgender inclusion in sport are simply transphobic :thumbup: I appreciate your honesty and your contribution to this discussion.
Fark you and your transphobic bullshit. I have no problem with people calling themselves whatever they want. but I wouldn't jump out of a plane with laptop strapped to my back because a bunch of crunts insist I call and treat it as a parachute. Its a farking laptop
I would have thought that someone who once maintained a small army of different internet personas would have been more sensitive to people with fluid identities.
Like I said I have no problem with them calling themselves whatever they want to
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by mabunch78 »

mojo wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:20 am Image
You had me at
mojo wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:20 amIt's a bit hard to tell
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:59 am Like I said I have no problem with them calling themselves whatever they want to
Okay, just so I can get a sense of where you are coming from, you think that Transgender women can playing Rugby but they must play against men. Or do you think they should be banned altogether?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by guy smiley »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:50 am
Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:48 am A genuine question because I know nothing about the topic -

Could a transgender person change their gender on a weekly or daily basis? ie could Elliott Page decide that he is a woman tomorrow?
Bigots would have asked the same "genuine questions" about gay people and their sexual orientation a few decades back.
that's easier to answer. If your sexuality is switching back and forth then you are just bisexual. And that's obvious that that exists.
You're displaying remarkable ignorance of what being 'trans' is actually about.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Jerome Manning »

guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:05 am You're displaying remarkable ignorance of what being 'trans' is actually about.
yeah I know, that's why I said I know nothing. Eddie Izzard seems to switch back and forth every week. To me that makes a mockery of it, but what would I know.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:01 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:59 am Like I said I have no problem with them calling themselves whatever they want to
Okay, just so I can get a sense of where you are coming from, you think that Transgender women can playing Rugby but they must play against men. Or do you think they should be banned altogether?
I think in a secret ballot women would overwhelmingly say they don't want to compete against them in rep rugby.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by fatcat »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:14 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:05 am You're displaying remarkable ignorance of what being 'trans' is actually about.
yeah I know, that's why I said I know nothing. Eddie Izzard seems to switch back and forth every week. To me that makes a mockery of it, but what would I know.
You are on the right track despite what Guy says. People have the option these days of switching gender whenever they feel like, and we are told by those in the know that one doesn't need to actually transition to change gender. Of course, this doesn't mean that all trans people, or even a majority, live their lives like this.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by guy smiley »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:14 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:05 am You're displaying remarkable ignorance of what being 'trans' is actually about.
yeah I know, that's why I said I know nothing. Eddie Izzard seems to switch back and forth every week. To me that makes a mockery of it, but what would I know.
Ah... so one person's circumstance governs your perception and judgement on all other people?

Despite your professed ignorance, you continue to make pronouncements. A bit like a fart in a brown paper bag, yeah?

Here's an article explaining Izzard's situation and decision...

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/202 ... he-and-her

hint... you're going to have to deal with a concept called gender fluid. Take it slow and easy.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:18 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:01 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:59 am Like I said I have no problem with them calling themselves whatever they want to
Okay, just so I can get a sense of where you are coming from, you think that Transgender women can playing Rugby but they must play against men. Or do you think they should be banned altogether?
I think in a secret ballot women would overwhelmingly say they don't want to compete against them in rep rugby.
I didn't ask what you think all women would want. I simply asked for your opinion.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by flaggETERNAL »

Has anyone asked biological women who play rugby what they think? It's a bit weird to see feminists being labeled TERFs for expressing their concern about this issue.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by mabunch78 »

Muttonbirds wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:41 am 365 thread is way better than this.

Fifth post:
Don't think much of her snatch
Or his jerk
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

flaggETERNAL wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:40 am Has anyone asked biological women who play rugby what they think? It's a bit weird to see feminists being labeled TERFs for expressing their concern about this issue.
Why should the fate and rights of Trans women be decided by individuals who were born female? Surely that's not how we as a society deal with the current discrimination against Transgender people?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:29 am
flaggETERNAL wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:40 am Has anyone asked biological women who play rugby what they think? It's a bit weird to see feminists being labeled TERFs for expressing their concern about this issue.
Why should the fate and rights of Trans women be decided by individuals who were born female? Surely that's not how we as a society deal with the current discrimination against Transgender people?
So now non-trans women aren’t allowed to choose who they compete against?

Who are you to decide what’s fair for them?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Tehui »

What a ridiculous decision by the IOC. Human rights prevails over common sense.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Brumbie_Steve »

mabunch78 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:01 am
mojo wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:20 am Image
You had me at
mojo wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:20 amIt's a bit hard to tell

When does the deputy NZ foreign Minister get her tramp stamp?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:22 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:18 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:01 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:59 am Like I said I have no problem with them calling themselves whatever they want to
Okay, just so I can get a sense of where you are coming from, you think that Transgender women can playing Rugby but they must play against men. Or do you think they should be banned altogether?
I think in a secret ballot women would overwhelmingly say they don't want to compete against them in rep rugby.
I didn't ask what you think all women would want. I simply asked for your opinion.
I suppose it's a bit like abortion. i don't see why men including fake women should be making the decision for women.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

It's pointless having this debate with someone who views transgender women as "fake women". Sorry, but that kind of bigotry will never see the need for transgender rights.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by bimboman »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:54 am
Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:50 am
Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:48 am A genuine question because I know nothing about the topic -

Could a transgender person change their gender on a weekly or daily basis? ie could Elliott Page decide that he is a woman tomorrow?
Bigots would have asked the same "genuine questions" about gay people and their sexual orientation a few decades back.
that's easier to answer. If your sexuality is switching back and forth then you are just bisexual. And that's obvious that that exists.
You realise that bi-sexual people don't "switch back and forth" between sexual orientations, right?

Erm, yes they do.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by bimboman »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 7:48 am It's pointless having this debate with someone who views transgender women as "fake women". Sorry, but that kind of bigotry will never see the need for transgender rights.

You’re a teacher right ?

Then you’ll understand that Sex in mammals is binary, and there’s a large gamete and a small gamete and associated carrying and delivery mechanism. Mammals either have one production or the other.


Woman has an actual meaning in English , adult female human, you shouldn’t just ignore that.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Muttonbirds »

Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders. :roll:

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by bimboman »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders.

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.

Middle aged conservative men can’t be bisexual ?

:lol:
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Muttonbirds »

bimboman wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:06 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders.

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.

Middle aged conservative men can’t be bisexual ?

:lol:
What are you trying to tell us?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by bimboman »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:11 am
bimboman wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:06 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders.

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.

Middle aged conservative men can’t be bisexual ?

:lol:
What are you trying to tell us?


:lol: ......


And ?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders. :roll:

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.
I do not know everything about them but I know a little bit about women and this doesn’t seem fair to me.

Am I conservative now? Am I a Nazi? Tell me where I am on the political spectrum now that I don’t agree with you on an issue.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by earl the beaver »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:52 pm It's simply a matter of inclusion. You cannot allow a situation where someone is considered a woman in every aspect of her life, but if she wants to play Rugby she must be a man when training and playing. That's just not reasonable or sustainable. That effectively shuts our sport off from Trans people. I have followed Rugby all my life but there is no way I can continue to follow the sport if genuine efforts aren't made to stop excluding Trans people from participating.

Anyway, fortunately Rugby Australia isn't run by the bigots on this thread, and they have embraced Trans people and have rules to encourage participation by Transgender people.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-transge ... by-matters
The reason we have segregated mens and womens sport is because (outside of very few niche sports) if all sport were open there would be no female winners or even competitors at the top level which in turn would lead to lower female participation. The reason behind this is that most sports are physical in some way and men are different physically from women.

If a Trans-woman has gone through male puberty she will have all the musculoskeletal benefits of that and testosterone blockers have very little impact on their physical ability (as evidenced in several peer reviewed scientific studies). As a result if the Trans-woman was a decent level athlete by male standards before transitioning she will be in a position to dominate as a woman.

This is unfair on women who were born female, as a trans-woman has a massive physiological advantage. It is also dangerous, the reason contact sports are segregated pre-puberty is that the physical differences that puberty give men mean that there could be serious injuries.

It will take someone ending up in a coma after a transwoman melts a ruck in rugby or someone dying after an MMA fight for any bodies to move against the woke twitterati's wishes though.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Muttonbirds »

towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:24 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders. :roll:

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.
I do not know everything about them but I know a little bit about women and this doesn’t seem fair to me.

Am I conservative now? Am I a Nazi? Tell me where I am on the political spectrum now that I don’t agree with you on an issue.
Think of the high profile male to female transgender incursions into women's sport...

...that's right, there are none.

Sports bodies are quite capable of managing this without TERFs and GCFs getting all upset about women's rights in a post-transgender world.

As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, the pushback against transgender people competing in sport mirrors the pushback against women competing in sport.

Remember this?

https://kathrineswitzer.com/1967-boston ... eal-story/
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:35 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:24 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders. :roll:

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.
I do not know everything about them but I know a little bit about women and this doesn’t seem fair to me.

Am I conservative now? Am I a Nazi? Tell me where I am on the political spectrum now that I don’t agree with you on an issue.
Think of the high profile male to female transgender incursions into women's sport...

...that's right, there are none.

Sports bodies are quite capable of managing this without TERFs and GCFs getting all upset about women's rights in a post-transgender world.

As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, the pushback against transgender people competing in sport mirrors the pushback against women competing in sport.

Remember this?

https://kathrineswitzer.com/1967-boston ... eal-story/
Oh, so I cannot have a different opinion and must trust the sports bodies’ capabilities to manage this? Okay. I’ll do it.

Should you do the same?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/spor ... women.html
towny
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

earl the beaver wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:34 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:52 pm It's simply a matter of inclusion. You cannot allow a situation where someone is considered a woman in every aspect of her life, but if she wants to play Rugby she must be a man when training and playing. That's just not reasonable or sustainable. That effectively shuts our sport off from Trans people. I have followed Rugby all my life but there is no way I can continue to follow the sport if genuine efforts aren't made to stop excluding Trans people from participating.

Anyway, fortunately Rugby Australia isn't run by the bigots on this thread, and they have embraced Trans people and have rules to encourage participation by Transgender people.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-transge ... by-matters
The reason we have segregated mens and womens sport is because (outside of very few niche sports) if all sport were open there would be no female winners or even competitors at the top level which in turn would lead to lower female participation. The reason behind this is that most sports are physical in some way and men are different physically from women.

If a Trans-woman has gone through male puberty she will have all the musculoskeletal benefits of that and testosterone blockers have very little impact on their physical ability (as evidenced in several peer reviewed scientific studies). As a result if the Trans-woman was a decent level athlete by male standards before transitioning she will be in a position to dominate as a woman.

This is unfair on women who were born female, as a trans-woman has a massive physiological advantage. It is also dangerous, the reason contact sports are segregated pre-puberty is that the physical differences that puberty give men mean that there could be serious injuries.

It will take someone ending up in a coma after a transwoman melts a ruck in rugby or someone dying after an MMA fight for any bodies to move against the woke twitterati's wishes though.
Is the difference in strength and power only from testosterone?!

And, are there other physiological differences between male and females other than strength and power?

At all ages, males have distinctive, physical advantages over females and these are not all connected to testosterone levels. This disparity cannot be balanced with a woke pen or hormones.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Muttonbirds »

towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:46 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:35 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:24 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders. :roll:

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.
I do not know everything about them but I know a little bit about women and this doesn’t seem fair to me.

Am I conservative now? Am I a Nazi? Tell me where I am on the political spectrum now that I don’t agree with you on an issue.
Think of the high profile male to female transgender incursions into women's sport...

...that's right, there are none.

Sports bodies are quite capable of managing this without TERFs and GCFs getting all upset about women's rights in a post-transgender world.

As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, the pushback against transgender people competing in sport mirrors the pushback against women competing in sport.

Remember this?

https://kathrineswitzer.com/1967-boston ... eal-story/
Oh, so I cannot have a different opinion and must trust the sports bodies’ capabilities to manage this? Okay. I’ll do it.

Should you do the same?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/spor ... women.html
:? You're arguing against yourself? You want to ban Laurel Hubbard but allow Grace McKenzie? I think they should both be allowed to play, but according to well defined parameters canvassed by each sporting body according to the rigours of that sport.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:52 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:46 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:35 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:24 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Love how the middle-aged, conservative men of the board know all about bisexuals and transgenders. :roll:

Also, disappointed backrow hasn't been on with the whole 'hottest bird in New Zealand' thing.
I do not know everything about them but I know a little bit about women and this doesn’t seem fair to me.

Am I conservative now? Am I a Nazi? Tell me where I am on the political spectrum now that I don’t agree with you on an issue.
Think of the high profile male to female transgender incursions into women's sport...

...that's right, there are none.

Sports bodies are quite capable of managing this without TERFs and GCFs getting all upset about women's rights in a post-transgender world.

As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, the pushback against transgender people competing in sport mirrors the pushback against women competing in sport.

Remember this?

https://kathrineswitzer.com/1967-boston ... eal-story/
Oh, so I cannot have a different opinion and must trust the sports bodies’ capabilities to manage this? Okay. I’ll do it.

Should you do the same?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/spor ... women.html
:? You're arguing against yourself? You want to ban Laurel Hubbard but allow Grace McKenzie? I think they should both be allowed to play, but according to well defined parameters canvassed by each sporting body according to the rigours of that sport.
You misunderstood - I posted a link about a sporting body making a decision on the issue. Why don’t you think WR is capable of working this out and why don’t you accept their decision?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Muttonbirds »

towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:55 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:52 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:46 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:35 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:24 am
I do not know everything about them but I know a little bit about women and this doesn’t seem fair to me.

Am I conservative now? Am I a Nazi? Tell me where I am on the political spectrum now that I don’t agree with you on an issue.
Think of the high profile male to female transgender incursions into women's sport...

...that's right, there are none.

Sports bodies are quite capable of managing this without TERFs and GCFs getting all upset about women's rights in a post-transgender world.

As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, the pushback against transgender people competing in sport mirrors the pushback against women competing in sport.

Remember this?

https://kathrineswitzer.com/1967-boston ... eal-story/
Oh, so I cannot have a different opinion and must trust the sports bodies’ capabilities to manage this? Okay. I’ll do it.

Should you do the same?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/spor ... women.html
:? You're arguing against yourself? You want to ban Laurel Hubbard but allow Grace McKenzie? I think they should both be allowed to play, but according to well defined parameters canvassed by each sporting body according to the rigours of that sport.
You misunderstood - I posted a link about a sporting body making a decision on the issue. Why don’t you think WR is capable of working this out and why don’t you accept their decision?
Rugby is a contact, team sport. Weightlifting is not. I can understand Rugby taking a bit longer to work out their model for including transgender players.
bimboman
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by bimboman »

If trans women are women why would the sporting body have to make any adjustments?

Mutton your position is now untenable.
towny
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

bimboman wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:16 am If trans women are women why would the sporting body have to make any adjustments?

Mutton your position is now untenable.
I agree with his last post, but as you point out, it doesn't align with his position on the issue.
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Lemoentjie
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Lemoentjie »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:20 pm
Jerome Manning wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:16 pm Cool, we've got arguing honestly going.
The logical extension of your overly lazy example is that Transgender women should be banned from all sports. Which I think is immoral and is most likely illegal
No not all sports - only sports in which having gone through puberty as a male provides a strength advantage. Someone mentioned earlier that equestrian doesn't bother segregating by gender.

You and I are prioritising two different moral virtues here. You are prioritising protecting vulnerable members of a group. I am prioritising the physical safety of females in contact sports. These two virtues are in conflict with each other and there are massive trade-offs trying to reconcile the two. Disagreement doesn't mean that the other person is hateful or transphobic.
I'm supporting inclusion. Once you start making inclusion conditional, then it's a slippery slope to a non-inclusive society. What next, ban Samoan women playing Rugby because of "safety"? If "physical safety" is what you're protecting then you are going to have your work cut out for you with Rugby. Also, do you have data to support your claim that Trans women are a safety risk in Rugby? Surely if they are as dangerous as you are making out then you'd have some data to support your claims?
What about a biological man, who identifies as a man, wanting to play in women's rugby?

It would be exclusionary to not let him play.
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