World 12s Tourney?????

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Sandstorm
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Sandstorm »

Allow full rucking again and I’ll watch it.
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Monkey Magic
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Monkey Magic »

As ridiculous as this is, if they promise unions and clubs fees for their players + a percentage of their auction price, how long before all talk of player welfare stops
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Leinster in London
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Leinster in London »

Monkey Magic wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:56 am As ridiculous as this is, if they promise unions and clubs fees for their players + a percentage of their auction price, how long before all talk of player welfare stops
Given that the players are contracted to clubs already, it will be the clubs that will be the main beneficiary rather than the players. In that scenario, the players will not be arsed to play.
DeDoc
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by DeDoc »

In the (already very full) pantheon of stupid ideas spawned by the Spivs, this is right up there

I assumed it was some kind of bizarre rumour at first but it does appear to have substance. No matter how hard I try I can't honestly see any aspect of this that could conceivably work
grievous
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by grievous »

What was that indoor 7s rugby comp running around a few years ago in the UK? All flashy lights and razzmatazz.

And NH posters say RA are trying to always change the games rules and the NH comes up with this?
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camroc1
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by camroc1 »

I don't know, what was it ?
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Zakar
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Zakar »

grievous wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:07 am What was that indoor 7s rugby comp running around a few years ago in the UK? All flashy lights and razzmatazz.

And NH posters say RA are trying to always change the games rules and the NH comes up with this?
Rugby Vs - 5 players a side, because aparently 7 is too many.
Flyin Ryan
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Morgan14 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:45 pm
Morgan14 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:34 pm What are the positions in 12s?
To use the numbers travelling clubs brought and not have forfeits, I've done 12-a-side before. I'm thinking it was 7 forwards, 5 backs. Drop your 8-man, a wing, and fullback.
Thanks. Makes sense, at least for scrums (need odd numbers I would think if there is a traditional 3-person front row). I imagine the wing would really be a 14/15 hybrid, and the 13 a 13/11 hybrid... But I'm guessing out of my arse, I've no clue.

Edit: No, I suppose you could go with 6 forwards, and a 3-2-1 scrum. I was wrong
You're right. It might've been 6 and 6. Drop the flankers and your fullback would be more natural.

This is more a "this is what we have, let's make a rugby game work from it" instead of something intentional.
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Auckman
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Auckman »

Play it on an oval field and I’ll watch it.
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LandOTurk
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by LandOTurk »

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/58522644

World 12s 'approaches already made' for teams - ex-WRU chairman Davies


Organisers of the proposed World 12s tournament have already been approached by people interested in forming a franchise, says one of its backers.

Gareth Davies is a former Welsh Rugby Union chairman and has represented it on global governing body World Rugby.

He also says he warmed to the plans after initial "scepticism".

"We've already had approaches since Tuesday from possible individuals and possible corporates who are very, very interested," he told Radio Wales Sport.

"Some sponsors are very, very interested, some broadcasters are very, very interested so you've got a lot of things in position already with, admittedly, fairly scant details [available] if you like."

Davies is on the board alongside ex-Rugby Football Union chief executive Ian Ritchie and former New Zealand Rugby Union chief executive Steve Tew.

He emphasised their collaboration should not be interpreted as a "rebel" threat to the sport's governing bodies.

"One of the earliest things I said was, 'Look, I'm not getting involved in any sort of rebel or ambush of the game'," said Davies.

"This has got to be done in conjunction with World Rugby, then obviously the national governing bodies and, of course, the clubs and the players.

"Then if that mix of constituency doesn't work, then fine if everybody's given it a shot."

Davies added: "It's going to be a huge challenge to get this off the ground, but... I hope people can be mature enough to get around the table."

In announcing the proposals, organisers proposed the 12-a-side rugby competition would take place over three weekends in England next August, with the expectation it will generate up to £250m of income.

Davies says that money will be spread "over five years coming into the game - that's obviously if it works".

World 12s Limited said the competition is intended to feature 192 of the world's best players, picked via auction to represent eight franchises who will then compete in a round-robin format before knockout games.

A women's tournament would also follow and have equal status and prize money in 2023, with the delay caused by the women's World Cup being played in New Zealand in 2022.

'They actually care about the game'
Davies says he was attracted to the concept for a variety of reasons, but says the backing of Tew and Ritchie, and approval of the likes of former New Zealand coach Steve Hansen and England boss Eddie Jones, was also a factor.

"Once you've started talking to people - and you've talked about people like Steve Hansen and Eddie Jones etc - while yes, they're employees and earn money through the game - they actually care about the game as well though," said Davies.

"And that was the attraction for me. Other guys on the board like Steve Tew from New Zealand and Ian Ritchie of England, yes, they're business guys, but they've spent a lifetime in rugby really so this isn't people coming along with big cheques and what have you.

"It's a proper, structured entity that hopefully can fit into the very fabric of the game, that takes a bit of financial pressure off the game and hopefully helps to improve the skillsets and enjoyment for people."

Davies says talks with World Rugby before the announcement started "a good few weeks ago" and revealed a mixed reaction to the proposals.

He added: "But obviously we had to limit it to one individual, really because of having to sign non-disclosure agreements.

"So there have been discussions there at World Rugby and [they] deemed it as 'an interesting project' and it went no further than that and you wouldn't expect them to.

"Likewise the reactions we've had from the unions - I've spoken to a few who said it is 'pretty interesting' and were amazed how we'd kept it so quiet.

"So that's been the sort of reaction and others have [said] as we've done and I did initially, 'How on earth do we fit it all in?'

"But that's the challenge now for us to take this on board, are we going to be serious about it and is it something that is going to benefit the game. If it does, brilliant. If it doesn't, well, we've given it a shot."

In a wide-ranging interview, Davies also said:

He was approached before the 2021 British and Irish Lions tour to South Africa and denies the World 12s plan was a reaction to the Test matches that were widely criticised for the style of play
World Rugby, national governing bodies, clubs and players must all back the idea for it to succeed
It must find a place in the global rugby calendar and "entertain as many people as is possible"
Match law trials can take place without "upsetting" fans of the established 15-a-side format
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camroc1
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by camroc1 »

Spivving. spivving, spivvery.
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Hellraiser
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Hellraiser »

A lot of brown envelopes flying around to push this shite.
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by eldanielfire »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?

Who on early thinks it's a great idea creating competition to your own sport? Football wouldn't do that.
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Flyin Ryan »

eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?
Think the World Cup every 2 years idea tells you they're broke. From an ROI point of view, the return from Tier 2 and Tier 3 is pretty close to zero. And they probably don't have the money to splash around from the last year and a half.
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guy smiley
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by guy smiley »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?
Think the World Cup every 2 years idea tells you they're broke. From an ROI point of view, the return from Tier 2 and Tier 3 is pretty close to zero. And they probably don't have the money to splash around from the last year and a half.
WR didn't have anything to do with the 12's idea.

If you're going to suggest they're broke for suggesting biannual world cups then I guess you think FIFA are also broke?
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by grievous »

eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?

Who on early thinks it's a great idea creating competition to your own sport? Football wouldn't do that.
Why do you think WR want a winner outside the elite 8? They are just interested in quoting stats, millions of players around the world because some kids attended an introduction to rugby session such as in Laos or Burkino Faso..
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by mdaclarke »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?
Think the World Cup every 2 years idea tells you they're broke. From an ROI point of view, the return from Tier 2 and Tier 3 is pretty close to zero. And they probably don't have the money to splash around from the last year and a half.
The 12s needs to be killed with fire, alongside the World Cup every 2 years

If Rugby is short of cash then they need to stop wasting money on pipe dream attempts to make rugby a big sport in Tier 3 countries and concentrate on maintaining Rugby as a mainstream sport in Tier 1 and to a lesser extent Tier 2 countries.

I would concentrate on the following countries

1. Argentina, Australia, England, France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, Scotland, South Africa, Wales
2. Georgia, Russia, Canada, USA, Uruguay, Namibia, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga.
Possibly also Brazil, Portugal, Spain and Romania

Forget about the rest, concentrate on keeping what they have.
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eldanielfire
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by eldanielfire »

grievous wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:34 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?

Who on early thinks it's a great idea creating competition to your own sport? Football wouldn't do that.
Why do you think WR want a winner outside the elite 8? They are just interested in quoting stats, millions of players around the world because some kids attended an introduction to rugby session such as in Laos or Burkino Faso..
Are you suggesting that something like England's suspiciously sky high participation stats for world Rugby could be massively exaggerated? :shock:
Flyin Ryan
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Flyin Ryan »

guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:28 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?
Think the World Cup every 2 years idea tells you they're broke. From an ROI point of view, the return from Tier 2 and Tier 3 is pretty close to zero. And they probably don't have the money to splash around from the last year and a half.
WR didn't have anything to do with the 12's idea.
Yeah, but that it's even a thing they're thinking of sanctioning, why? Rugby powerbrokers in contrast never backed RugbyLaw.
If you're going to suggest they're broke for suggesting biannual world cups then I guess you think FIFA are also broke?
They have a lot of mouths to feed. Spread money around globally and suddenly it doesn't go that far. Throw on top of it a lot of unions had to make this sudden change to planned finances for Covid when a lot of them were not in good shape financially to begin with before Covid ever got here. Pre-Covid I remember going through all the Tier 1 unions and maybe 3 of them the game could be called "healthy" in the home country. Then Covid occurred.

It'll never get out unless the right person gets drunk in a bar in Dublin or London and a journalist is in earshot, but I think they're looking at a financial shortfall and they're trying to figure out how to fill the hole up. So take the biggest moneymaker they have and have it twice as often. Other sports do this, the Ashes in cricket now occur twice as often. The Wallabies seemingly want to play the All Blacks every 3 months.
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LandOTurk
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by LandOTurk »

guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:28 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?
Think the World Cup every 2 years idea tells you they're broke. From an ROI point of view, the return from Tier 2 and Tier 3 is pretty close to zero. And they probably don't have the money to splash around from the last year and a half.
WR didn't have anything to do with the 12's idea.

If you're going to suggest they're broke for suggesting biannual world cups then I guess you think FIFA are also broke?
Athletics now has a Worlds every 2 years and I dint think it has in any way enhanced the sport(s), just made it a bit richer, and the title a little less important.
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LandOTurk
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by LandOTurk »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:09 am
guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:28 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?
Think the World Cup every 2 years idea tells you they're broke. From an ROI point of view, the return from Tier 2 and Tier 3 is pretty close to zero. And they probably don't have the money to splash around from the last year and a half.
WR didn't have anything to do with the 12's idea.
Yeah, but that it's even a thing they're thinking of sanctioning, why? Rugby powerbrokers in contrast never backed RugbyLaw.
If you're going to suggest they're broke for suggesting biannual world cups then I guess you think FIFA are also broke?
They have a lot of mouths to feed. Spread money around globally and suddenly it doesn't go that far. Throw on top of it a lot of unions had to make this sudden change to planned finances for Covid when a lot of them were not in good shape financially to begin with before Covid ever got here. Pre-Covid I remember going through all the Tier 1 unions and maybe 3 of them the game could be called "healthy" in the home country. Then Covid occurred.

It'll never get out unless the right person gets drunk in a bar in Dublin or London and a journalist is in earshot, but I think they're looking at a financial shortfall and they're trying to figure out how to fill the hole up. So take the biggest moneymaker they have and have it twice as often. Other sports do this, the Ashes in cricket now occur twice as often. The Wallabies seemingly want to play the All Blacks every 3 months.
That sounds about right.
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LandOTurk
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by LandOTurk »

mdaclarke wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:55 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:57 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:27 pm If you want to have a version of the game that actually uses forwards - instead of 7s where it's a bunch of wings attempting to pass the ball, scrum, and ruck - why wouldn't you do 10s?
What's more. Why is world rugby fixated on creating more versions of the game rather than pumping that quarter of a billion in say developing tier 2 and 3 sides?
Think the World Cup every 2 years idea tells you they're broke. From an ROI point of view, the return from Tier 2 and Tier 3 is pretty close to zero. And they probably don't have the money to splash around from the last year and a half.
The 12s needs to be killed with fire, alongside the World Cup every 2 years

If Rugby is short of cash then they need to stop wasting money on pipe dream attempts to make rugby a big sport in Tier 3 countries and concentrate on maintaining Rugby as a mainstream sport in Tier 1 and to a lesser extent Tier 2 countries.

I would concentrate on the following countries

1. Argentina, Australia, England, France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, Scotland, South Africa, Wales
2. Georgia, Russia, Canada, USA, Uruguay, Namibia, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga.
Possibly also Brazil, Portugal, Spain and Romania

Forget about the rest, concentrate on keeping what they have.
20/24 competitive international teams would be something. Invite all of them to the RWC.
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Leinster in London
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Leinster in London »

It seems to be dying a death, as expected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59067701

They do have this comment:
"We are optimistic that, even within the restrictions posed by the current calendar, World 12s will be able to host a tournament in August 2022 that includes a number of the game's leading players, who will not be impacted by fixture clashes at that time."
This is a big pull back from " feature 192 of the world's best players"
They are admitting all that anyone can expect are a few NZ hasbeens who only know how to play easy rugby.
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Margin_Walker
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by Margin_Walker »

Who could possibly have foreseen that this wouldn't get off the ground?

I'm stunned
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eldanielfire
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by eldanielfire »

Margin_Walker wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:27 pm Who could possibly have foreseen that this wouldn't get off the ground?

I'm stunned
Shit concept dreamed up by investment bankers and otehr such wankers won't work.

BTW, NGJ did a good video on why it would never work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=957QWlRRjHo

Basically when you have variants of the game already it's pointless. People get into the main version of the sport and then play the variants for fun or for easy fixtures etc. Plus we already have rugby league and Sevens as other offshoots of rugby.
PUMITA
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Re: World 12s Tourney?????

Post by PUMITA »

Spivs booted into touch. Permanently fingers crossed.
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