Something’s up

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grievous
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Re: Something’s up

Post by grievous »

Bindi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 pm Do we have to defend NZ when they get in a spot of bother anymore? Or is that over?
Yeah fudge em, they are mostly here anyway.
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JB1981
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Re: Something’s up

Post by JB1981 »

grievous wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:17 pm
Bindi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 pm Do we have to defend NZ when they get in a spot of bother anymore? Or is that over?
Yeah fudge em, they are mostly here anyway.
:nod: Kicking winning goals vs the Springboks.

I wonder how Ardern and Trudeau are feeling about this?
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MungoMan
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Re: Something’s up

Post by MungoMan »

Bindi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:51 pm
Jeff the Bear wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:50 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:42 pm Good step in the right direction for Australia to embrace nuclear power too. Get rid of dirty coal and gas as a baseline and replace with nuclear :thumbup:
In my opinion, all (largely) non-seismic countries should be going nuclear.
Most of the uranium comes from here anyway. Assuming we just load it straight into the reactor with a shovel.
Yep. Pitmouth reactors at the ore reserves. Hope the stokers like warm weather.
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UncleFB
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Re: Something’s up

Post by UncleFB »

Bindi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 pm Do we have to defend NZ when they get in a spot of bother anymore? Or is that over?
Hey, as we all know from that planning report Tomorrow When The War Began we're the only ones who'll help you when Indonesia invade because they're tired of you you lot using Bali as a toilet.
Last edited by UncleFB on Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
grievous
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Re: Something’s up

Post by grievous »

JB1981 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:33 pm
grievous wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:17 pm
Bindi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 pm Do we have to defend NZ when they get in a spot of bother anymore? Or is that over?
Yeah fudge em, they are mostly here anyway.
:nod: Kicking winning goals vs the Springboks.

I wonder how Ardern and Trudeau are feeling about this?
Trudeau is getting pushed around by China like everyone else, plus they are not in the Indo Pacific.
NZ will continue their current path and lecture us on China relations so they can sell milk powder.
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Zakar
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Zakar »

grievous wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:16 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:42 pm Good step in the right direction for Australia to embrace nuclear power too. Get rid of dirty coal and gas as a baseline and replace with nuclear :thumbup:
Its not a full embrace of nuclear power at all. Morrision even said that in the speech.
Sure, but gets the foot in the door.
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MungoMan
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Re: Something’s up

Post by MungoMan »

UncleFB wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:45 pm
Bindi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 pm Do we have to defend NZ when they get in a spot of bother anymore? Or is that over?
Hey, as we all know from that planning report Tomorrow When The War Began we're the only ones who'll help you when Indonesia invade because they're tried of you you lot using Bali as a toilet.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
grievous
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Re: Something’s up

Post by grievous »

Zakar wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:55 pm
grievous wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:16 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:42 pm Good step in the right direction for Australia to embrace nuclear power too. Get rid of dirty coal and gas as a baseline and replace with nuclear :thumbup:
Its not a full embrace of nuclear power at all. Morrision even said that in the speech.
Sure, but gets the foot in the door.
A full blown nuclear industry isnt viable, if you dont have one now you never will renewables have confirmed that.
Challenge will be how these subs are powered and where, bases are Perth and Brisbane, manufacturing will be still Adelaide. Which state will accept a small reactor to test and commission the subs?
Its not even a discussion the Libs have publicly had, this has some way to go and as usual we wont get squat on the detail from Scommo.
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Olo
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Olo »

Someone in the ranks has promised Quade citizenship
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

grievous wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:12 am
A full blown nuclear industry isnt viable, if you dont have one now you never will renewables have confirmed that.
Challenge will be how these subs are powered and where, bases are Perth and Brisbane, manufacturing will be still Adelaide. Which state will accept a small reactor to test and commission the subs?
Its not even a discussion the Libs have publicly had, this has some way to go and as usual we wont get squat on the detail from Scommo.
It certainly won't be Garden Island in Sydney!

Interestingly, when the UK Navy exited the Naval college in Greenwich, people didn't find out until after it was removed that there was a functional Test Reactor there :shock:
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merry!
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Re: Something’s up

Post by merry! »

more theatre in support of our negotiations to join that asia-pacific trade deal thingy, i reckon (like the carrier strike group tour out there).

winding up dozy's mob is just a bonus.
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Zakar
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Zakar »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:58 am
grievous wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:12 am
A full blown nuclear industry isnt viable, if you dont have one now you never will renewables have confirmed that.
Challenge will be how these subs are powered and where, bases are Perth and Brisbane, manufacturing will be still Adelaide. Which state will accept a small reactor to test and commission the subs?
Its not even a discussion the Libs have publicly had, this has some way to go and as usual we wont get squat on the detail from Scommo.
It certainly won't be Garden Island in Sydney!

Interestingly, when the UK Navy exited the Naval college in Greenwich, people didn't find out until after it was removed that there was a functional Test Reactor there :shock:
Cresswell maybe. JV Territory so no complaining state governments to contend with, low local population so NIMBY complaints can be ignored.
grievous
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Re: Something’s up

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I think the Greens have just been reinvigorated/reborn from being the nothing party they currently are.
Banners are being spray painted as we type.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:31 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:58 am
grievous wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:12 am
A full blown nuclear industry isnt viable, if you dont have one now you never will renewables have confirmed that.
Challenge will be how these subs are powered and where, bases are Perth and Brisbane, manufacturing will be still Adelaide. Which state will accept a small reactor to test and commission the subs?
Its not even a discussion the Libs have publicly had, this has some way to go and as usual we wont get squat on the detail from Scommo.
It certainly won't be Garden Island in Sydney!

Interestingly, when the UK Navy exited the Naval college in Greenwich, people didn't find out until after it was removed that there was a functional Test Reactor there :shock:
Cresswell maybe. JV Territory so no complaining state governments to contend with, low local population so NIMBY complaints can be ignored.
Surrounded by National Parks - good luck with that :lol:

TBH, Garden Island in Sydney should be moved North - it's prime real estate and a first-strike target if Subs are based there
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Zakar
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Zakar »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:50 am
Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:31 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:58 am
grievous wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:12 am
A full blown nuclear industry isnt viable, if you dont have one now you never will renewables have confirmed that.
Challenge will be how these subs are powered and where, bases are Perth and Brisbane, manufacturing will be still Adelaide. Which state will accept a small reactor to test and commission the subs?
Its not even a discussion the Libs have publicly had, this has some way to go and as usual we wont get squat on the detail from Scommo.
It certainly won't be Garden Island in Sydney!

Interestingly, when the UK Navy exited the Naval college in Greenwich, people didn't find out until after it was removed that there was a functional Test Reactor there :shock:
Cresswell maybe. JV Territory so no complaining state governments to contend with, low local population so NIMBY complaints can be ignored.
Surrounded by National Parks - good luck with that :lol:

TBH, Garden Island in Sydney should be moved North - it's prime real estate and a first-strike target if Subs are based there
So what? It shouldn't have ongoing pollution that would affect the park.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Something’s up

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You do know what the Car Park at Cresswell was designed for and why it's not used for that?
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Farva
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Farva »

If these are going nuclear Adelaide would be the right location.
While ANSTO is located in Sydney, the radioactive waste agency is being established in Adelaide in preparation for a waste treatment facility in northern SA.
That means that the facilities to handle and treat radioactive waste are there.
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Harveys
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Harveys »

grievous wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:36 am I think the Greens have just been reinvigorated/reborn from being the nothing party they currently are.
Banners are being spray painted as we type.
GS has been suspiciously quiet this morning.
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Zakar
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Re: Something’s up

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Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:59 am You do know what the Car Park at Cresswell was designed for and why it's not used for that?
A nuclear power station, and lack of impetus.
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Farva
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Farva »

Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:25 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:59 am You do know what the Car Park at Cresswell was designed for and why it's not used for that?
A nuclear power station, and lack of impetus.
There wont be a nuclear power plant in Australia unless there is a significant change in technology.
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usermame
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Re: Something’s up

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DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:37 pm NZ excluded?
Every cloud has a silver lining.
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usermame
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Re: Something’s up

Post by usermame »

What I find most baffling is Australia's eagerness to once again act the remora, even after the lesson of the Afghanistan debacle, this time as the sharks circle China.
https://johnmenadue.com/five-eyes-intelligence-failure-in-afghanistan-or-something-worse/While there is a raft of questions that demand answers five seem to command priority.

The first is this: is it remotely possible that, over the with years Australia was in Uruzgan, its intelligence capabilities (military and civilian) were unaware of the profound and fundamental forces which would bring about defeat?

The second is: if they were, then why?

Third, did they know but did not communicate their knowledge to those who needed it to make decisions effecting life and death?

Fourth, if they did now, did they communicate their knowledge to those who needed it, but who rejected it?

Fifth, if it was rejected, was it because there was an override – blind loyalty to the Australia-US alliance – which reduced the intelligence into a corpus of inconvenient truths – in which case is another case of the relationship’s periodic demand for blood sacrifice?
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Something’s up

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Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:25 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:59 am You do know what the Car Park at Cresswell was designed for and why it's not used for that?
A nuclear power station, and lack of impetus.
More like protests...

They could always move it to Port Stephens to the North Shore that was the original proposed site
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Re: Something’s up

Post by grievous »

usermame wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:30 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:37 pm NZ excluded?
Every cloud has a silver lining.
RIP ANZUS,

Long live AUKUS!!!!
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Re: Something’s up

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:thumbup:
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Zakar
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Zakar »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:48 am
Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:25 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:59 am You do know what the Car Park at Cresswell was designed for and why it's not used for that?
A nuclear power station, and lack of impetus.
More like protests...

They could always move it to Port Stephens to the North Shore that was the original proposed site
Not proceeding despite protests is a lack of impetus. That said, protests were not why it was abandoned. McMahon was off it and Coal was cheaper at the time.
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Dozy »

merry! wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:04 am more theatre in support of our negotiations to join that asia-pacific trade deal thingy, i reckon (like the carrier strike group tour out there).

winding up dozy's mob is just a bonus.
I think you’ve totally misread the room again.


They wanted a much bigger group and it all failed. This is an act of desperation and very back optics.

Now you’ve a threesome of two nations miles away who want to interfere using the only anglosphere nation in the region to interfere. The message is clear, “we are different, we will clearly show those differences, we will try to project power based on those differences “

Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, Korea etc.. all now know, the ocra club is about the inner circle of white English speaking dudes no matter what…”we want you with us, but you can never be one of us”

This has long been predicted by geopolitical analysts, now it’s taking shape. It’s still a bloody long way away from the nucleus of the region compared to where they planned to be.

3 eyes is actually just one eye with two cheeks of the same ass either side. Slap a W on each cheek and at least when they bend over it will say WOW, just like the over hyped shit of this very underwhelming announcement.
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Dozy »

grievous wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 pm
JB1981 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:33 pm
grievous wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:17 pm
Bindi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 pm Do we have to defend NZ when they get in a spot of bother anymore? Or is that over?
Yeah fudge em, they are mostly here anyway.
:nod: Kicking winning goals vs the Springboks.

I wonder how Ardern and Trudeau are feeling about this?
Trudeau is getting pushed around by China like everyone else, plus they are not in the Indo Pacific.
NZ will continue their current path and lecture us on China relations so they can sell milk powder.
By pushed around you mean they don't bow to everything the western nations dictate anymore.

Five eyes can become three, and even back to four or five, but let's not forget the message it sends, It's a very bad one.

If it was about a common shared use of the English language or of a shared historical links then Nigeria, India, Malaysia and other nations with massive use of the English language and links of the commonwealth but the reality is these views of these times differ depending on race. This just confirms to the whole region that the dated colonial mindset is still there.

Terrible move by the Orcas
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Farva
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Farva »

Are you aware of the Quad security alliance, between Australia, India, Japan and the USA?
Or the 5 power defence arrangements between Malaysia, NZ, Australia, Singapore and the UK?
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Re: Something’s up

Post by jambanja »

Farva wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:46 am Are you aware of the Quad security alliance, between Australia, India, Japan and the USA?
Or the 5 power defence arrangements between Malaysia, NZ, Australia, Singapore and the UK?
It's probably 3 in the morning where Desperate Dozy is and he's just flinging shit around until he gets more concice instructions about what spin needs to be spun, you have to give them credit, they're at it night and day, I wonder how many of them there are
Dozy
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Dozy »

Farva wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:46 am Are you aware of the Quad security alliance, between Australia, India, Japan and the USA?
Or the 5 power defence arrangements between Malaysia, NZ, Australia, Singapore and the UK?
Think I mention them before. The information sharing and tech sharing isn’t the same for the lads who are different to the threesome.

All partnerships are equal, some more equal than others…….says the colonial Anglo nation in the middle of the Asian pacific who still defines themselves cultural on its colonial history the other side of the world.

Don’t see any relationship in the region ever build with Australia anything like that. Wonder what the view is in Jakarta
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Zakar
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Zakar »

Dozy wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 am
Farva wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:46 am Are you aware of the Quad security alliance, between Australia, India, Japan and the USA?
Or the 5 power defence arrangements between Malaysia, NZ, Australia, Singapore and the UK?
Think I mention them before. The information sharing and tech sharing isn’t the same for the lads who are different to the threesome.

All partnerships are equal, some more equal than others…….says the colonial Anglo nation in the middle of the Asian pacific who still defines themselves cultural on its colonial history the other side of the world.

Don’t see any relationship in the region ever build with Australia anything like that. Wonder what the view is in Jakarta
Smoggy.
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Dozy »

jambanja wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:51 am
Farva wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:46 am Are you aware of the Quad security alliance, between Australia, India, Japan and the USA?
Or the 5 power defence arrangements between Malaysia, NZ, Australia, Singapore and the UK?
It's probably 3 in the morning where Desperate Dozy is and he's just flinging shit around until he gets more concice instructions about what spin needs to be spun, you have to give them credit, they're at it night and day, I wonder how many of them there are
Doubt most give a shit. The Russians are taking the piss. I am sure it’s not a surprise anywhere else either.
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Dozy »

Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:53 am
Dozy wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 am
Farva wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:46 am Are you aware of the Quad security alliance, between Australia, India, Japan and the USA?
Or the 5 power defence arrangements between Malaysia, NZ, Australia, Singapore and the UK?
Think I mention them before. The information sharing and tech sharing isn’t the same for the lads who are different to the threesome.

All partnerships are equal, some more equal than others…….says the colonial Anglo nation in the middle of the Asian pacific who still defines themselves cultural on its colonial history the other side of the world.

Don’t see any relationship in the region ever build with Australia anything like that. Wonder what the view is in Jakarta
Smoggy.
Sums you up
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usermame
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Re: Something’s up

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Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:35 pm Image
I wonder whether the same thing would work for us so we could put another few thousand k in the ditch.

Maui! We may need a bit of catch and release...
grievous
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Re: Something’s up

Post by grievous »

Dozy wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:22 am
merry! wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:04 am more theatre in support of our negotiations to join that asia-pacific trade deal thingy, i reckon (like the carrier strike group tour out there).

winding up dozy's mob is just a bonus.
I think you’ve totally misread the room again.


They wanted a much bigger group and it all failed. This is an act of desperation and very back optics.

Now you’ve a threesome of two nations miles away who want to interfere using the only anglosphere nation in the region to interfere. The message is clear, “we are different, we will clearly show those differences, we will try to project power based on those differences “

Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, Korea etc.. all now know, the ocra club is about the inner circle of white English speaking dudes no matter what…”we want you with us, but you can never be one of us”

This has long been predicted by geopolitical analysts, now it’s taking shape. It’s still a bloody long way away from the nucleus of the region compared to where they planned to be.

3 eyes is actually just one eye with two cheeks of the same ass either side. Slap a W on each cheek and at least when they bend over it will say WOW, just like the over hyped shit of this very underwhelming announcement.
Did you just Sinosplain?
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Bindi
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Bindi »

I see Jacinda has banned our fancy new boats from NZ territorial waters. Given they come into service in 2040, presuming she's PM-for-Life, Xi Jinping style, to back that up.
Last edited by Bindi on Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Something’s up

Post by Dozy »

Bindi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:14 am I see Jacinda has banned our fancy new boats from NZ territorial waters. Given they come into service in 2040, presuming she's PM-for-Life, Xi Jinping style, so back that up.
Any word that the US and UK will step in and help with lost trade revenue
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usermame
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Re: Something’s up

Post by usermame »

Thanks, Jacinda...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ern-allies

New Zealand’s longstanding nuclear-free policy also means that Australian submarines developed under the deal are banned from New Zealand waters. “New Zealand’s position in relation to the prohibition of nuclear-powered vessels in our waters remains unchanged,” the prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, said on Thursday.

She said the new agreement “in no way changes our security and intelligence ties with these three countries, as well as Canada”. Asked by reporters if New Zealand had been offered a place, Ardern said, “We weren’t approached, nor would I expect us to be.”

However, New Zealand is “conspicuous by its absence,” said Geoffrey Miller, international analyst at the Democracy Project. “Canada and New Zealand are sort of being relegated here. It shows how far apart Australian and New Zealand foreign policymakers are.”
One can tell it's the right approach, Crusher's party is whining piteously...
The opposition National party has been critical of New Zealand’s absence from the deal, saying it looks like New Zealand was “left out of the loop”.

“The government needs to come clean about what happened here. Does this new partnership affect our Five Eyes relationship? What about our relationship with Australia, the one country that we have the closest defence and economic partnership? And will this have an impact on our standing as a responsible international citizen?” defence spokesperson Gerry Brownlee asked.

“The government needs to explain why it looks as though New Zealand has been left out of the loop,” Brownlee said. “Were we consulted or at the table to discuss with a group of countries that we’ve considered likeminded for quite some time?”
That 'Indo-Pacific' stuff has been shown to be the obvious pacifier everyone knew it was...
In her statement, Ardern emphasised New Zealand’s Pacific connections – in what Capie said could be read as a nod to the country’s nuclear-free history. “New Zealand is first and foremost a nation of the Pacific and we view foreign policy developments through the lens of what is in the best interest of the region,” Ardern said.

“We welcome the increased engagement of the UK and US in the region and reiterate our collective objective needs to be the delivery of peace and stability and the preservation of the international rules based system.”

Capie said Ardern’s statement reinforced the message of her other recent speeches, “that NZ prefers to focus on its immediate neighbourhood rather than on maritime Asia where that much sharper military confrontation with China is playing out,” he said. “[That’s] where the new Australian subs would be operating.”
Of course what makes it all the more delicious is that the US has not ratified UNCLOS, the agreement it bloviates about upholding in the South China Sea, even though it's been in effect for over 20 years.

We'll need more popcorn...

Image
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Re: Something’s up

Post by usermame »

Bindi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:14 am I see Jacinda has banned our fancy new boats from NZ territorial waters. Given they come into service in 2040, presuming she's PM-for-Life, Xi Jinping style, so back that up.
Nah, that was Lange.
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