WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

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eldanielfire
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WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by eldanielfire »

Literally how does a police force end up like this? As well as the utter disgust I'm genuinely baffled by it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... e-serious/

rooming gangs that preyed on 700 vulnerable girls and women in and around Newcastle developed an "arrogant persistence" because the authorities locked up the victims rather than the offenders, a Serious Case Review has found.

Operation Sanctuary, which was launched in 2014, resulted in 112 offenders being jailed for a total of almost 500 years for abuse carried out against more than 270 victims.

But a shocking report has revealed that the actual number of those targeted was at least 700, as gangs of men from a range of backgrounds plied victims with drugs before raping and forcing them into prostitution.

According to the review, the abusers were mainly "not white but came from a diverse range of backgrounds including Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Iranian, Iraqi, Kurdish, Turkish, Albanian and Eastern European".

In some cases the victims of the gangs were placed in secure accommodation because of what was seen as their poor behaviour, while the offenders were seen to be innocent and went unpunished.

Efforts to find out why the perpetrators thought they could abuse vulnerable women and girls have been rebuffed, with only one defendant agreeing to help the inquiry, and he denied guilt, blaming a government cover up.

The Serious Case Review concluded there there was no reluctance to start an investigation into grooming due to political correctness - a factor in previous abuse scandals elsewhere.

The report states: "Some victims were placed in secure accommodation. This sent an unhelpful message to perpetrators – they were unlikely to be prosecuted or prevented from continuing to abuse - encouraging an arrogant persistence.

"It also had a significant impact on victims who learnt that nothing would be done against perpetrators."

The report ignored the payment of £10,000 by Northumbria Police to a convicted rapist as an informant. It says the payment to the man - known as XY - was not "within its scope."

Operation Sanctuary investigated grooming and sexual abuse across Newcastle and the North East
Operation Sanctuary investigated grooming and sexual abuse across Newcastle and the North East
The report, authored by retired barrister David Spicer, a former chairman of the British Association for the Study and Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect, identifies how the abuse gangs were able to gain a foothold.

It states: "Perpetrators were not consistently investigated or formally interviewed and background checks were not undertaken.

"Historical information was not routinely accessed and incidents were treated as separate occurrences with no strategy to pull information together to improve understanding of the whole picture.

"It was felt there was a lack of professional curiosity, thinking beyond the presenting issue, and insight into the actual harm victims were experiencing.

"There were no effective inquiries about relationships, why girls were with older men to whom they were not related; explanations were accepted, even when a young girl was found in the bedroom of an older man.

"There was little inquiry into what other victims there may be or the vulnerability of children, young people, and vulnerable adults in the perpetrators’ families and circle of contacts.

"There was a lack of forensic medical examinations or collection of physical evidence."

The report also says that distressed youngsters were returned home when found in the company of older men and no action was taken.

It states: "If they came across young people drunk or in distress in the company of older men, they acted to take them home to their parents or their placements.”

That finding is highlighted by a particular instance in 2011 when a probation officer saw one of the jailed men, Abdul Sabe, 39, ushering a group of young girls into the back of a black 4x4.

She knew through her work he was on the sex offenders register so immediately called the police and also told officers in a nearby patrol car of her concerns.

But when police caught up with the men at Sabe's flat in Walker, Newcastle, he and another jailed gang member Habibur Rahim, 28, were given warnings for cannabis possession and an entry was put on the police log to say "nothing untoward" had happened.

Operation Sanctuary was launched in January 2014, a month after a young woman with learning difficulties told her social worker she had been sexually abused.

The authorities stepped up their response when they realised the problem was far worse than previously imagined.

The review was carried out for Newcastle Safeguarding Children Board and Newcastle Safeguarding Adults Board.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by You can call me Bill »

Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Derwyn »

Image

IN. This is going to be good.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by CrazyIslander »

Considering the police covered up Jimmy Saville etc. Why would they care what immigrant pedos get upto? The system was rotten to start with.
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Derwyn
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Derwyn »

This ‘issue’ seems to be par for the course with Labour run councils.

Why are they afraid to deal with the grooming gangs?
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by CrazyIslander »

You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
So women who arenot raped and abused should consider themselves lucky?
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Mick Mannock »

Derwyn wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:14 pm Image

IN. This is going to be good.
It started early. CI has made an appearance.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by C69 »

Derwyn wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:20 pm This ‘issue’ seems to be par for the course with Labour run councils.

Why are they afraid to deal with the grooming gangs?
The Labour government of that time to now is a disgrace. It's about the police locally.


Err wait ffs you stupid cnut.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Mick Mannock »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:22 pm
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
So women who arenot raped and abused should consider themselves lucky?
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by iarmhiman »

Love her.

Intelligent and sexy at the same time. Forget her name. Channel 4 news
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Mick Mannock »

iarmhiman wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:34 pm Love her.

Intelligent and sexy at the same time. Forget her name. Channel 4 news
Crazy Lobster Lady
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by You can call me Bill »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:22 pm
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
So women who arenot raped and abused should consider themselves lucky?
No, that's not what I mean in the slightest, although I do think that most people (men and women) in western societies are more privileged than they appreciate.

It was more of a personal point that I was making, and a personal response, than one that I necessarily expected others to agree with.

The subject matter in the article speaks for itself really, and I suggest is the focus here.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Zakar »

You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
People can walk and chew gum at the same time. :roll:
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by badmannotinjapan »

You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

:uhoh:
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by jambanja »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by merlin the happy pig »

jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:22 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
And we're off into the weeds again.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by jambanja »

merlin the happy pig wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:29 am
jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:22 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
And we're off into the weeds again.
I think I have an idea of what you mean, but in case I’m wrong can you elaborate
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by P in VG »

jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:22 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
Don't want to come across all Jordan Petersonesque but...

It's not a fair comparison because women go off and have babies all the time.

Also men are more likely (possibly due to historical patriarchal social conditioning) to display traits that are helpful to acquire higher earning positions of power (CEOs etc) - this also skews the figures massively.

(This is only for Western society - I'm not talking about developing countries where sexism & oppression is a reality for many women)
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by badmannotinjapan »

jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:22 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
Men work longer hours. They work in more dangerous jobs. They work in industries they pay more. Women take time off for babies.

No one is complaining about female dominated industries such as teaching, nursing and childcare.

If you think the wage gap exists, give up 13% of your salary or whatever the difference is.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

:uhoh:
Confused?
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by mr flaps »

eldanielfire wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:24 pm Literally how does a police force end up like this? As well as the utter disgust I'm genuinely baffled by it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... e-serious/

rooming gangs that preyed on 700 vulnerable girls and women in and around Newcastle developed an "arrogant persistence" because the authorities locked up the victims rather than the offenders, a Serious Case Review has found.

Operation Sanctuary, which was launched in 2014, resulted in 112 offenders being jailed for a total of almost 500 years for abuse carried out against more than 270 victims.

But a shocking report has revealed that the actual number of those targeted was at least 700, as gangs of men from a range of backgrounds plied victims with drugs before raping and forcing them into prostitution.

According to the review, the abusers were mainly "not white but came from a diverse range of backgrounds including Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Iranian, Iraqi, Kurdish, Turkish, Albanian and Eastern European".

In some cases the victims of the gangs were placed in secure accommodation because of what was seen as their poor behaviour, while the offenders were seen to be innocent and went unpunished.

Efforts to find out why the perpetrators thought they could abuse vulnerable women and girls have been rebuffed, with only one defendant agreeing to help the inquiry, and he denied guilt, blaming a government cover up.

The Serious Case Review concluded there there was no reluctance to start an investigation into grooming due to political correctness - a factor in previous abuse scandals elsewhere.

The report states: "Some victims were placed in secure accommodation. This sent an unhelpful message to perpetrators – they were unlikely to be prosecuted or prevented from continuing to abuse - encouraging an arrogant persistence.

"It also had a significant impact on victims who learnt that nothing would be done against perpetrators."

The report ignored the payment of £10,000 by Northumbria Police to a convicted rapist as an informant. It says the payment to the man - known as XY - was not "within its scope."

Operation Sanctuary investigated grooming and sexual abuse across Newcastle and the North East
Operation Sanctuary investigated grooming and sexual abuse across Newcastle and the North East
The report, authored by retired barrister David Spicer, a former chairman of the British Association for the Study and Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect, identifies how the abuse gangs were able to gain a foothold.

It states: "Perpetrators were not consistently investigated or formally interviewed and background checks were not undertaken.

"Historical information was not routinely accessed and incidents were treated as separate occurrences with no strategy to pull information together to improve understanding of the whole picture.

"It was felt there was a lack of professional curiosity, thinking beyond the presenting issue, and insight into the actual harm victims were experiencing.

"There were no effective inquiries about relationships, why girls were with older men to whom they were not related; explanations were accepted, even when a young girl was found in the bedroom of an older man.

"There was little inquiry into what other victims there may be or the vulnerability of children, young people, and vulnerable adults in the perpetrators’ families and circle of contacts.

"There was a lack of forensic medical examinations or collection of physical evidence."

The report also says that distressed youngsters were returned home when found in the company of older men and no action was taken.

It states: "If they came across young people drunk or in distress in the company of older men, they acted to take them home to their parents or their placements.”

That finding is highlighted by a particular instance in 2011 when a probation officer saw one of the jailed men, Abdul Sabe, 39, ushering a group of young girls into the back of a black 4x4.

She knew through her work he was on the sex offenders register so immediately called the police and also told officers in a nearby patrol car of her concerns.

But when police caught up with the men at Sabe's flat in Walker, Newcastle, he and another jailed gang member Habibur Rahim, 28, were given warnings for cannabis possession and an entry was put on the police log to say "nothing untoward" had happened.

Operation Sanctuary was launched in January 2014, a month after a young woman with learning difficulties told her social worker she had been sexually abused.

The authorities stepped up their response when they realised the problem was far worse than previously imagined.

The review was carried out for Newcastle Safeguarding Children Board and Newcastle Safeguarding Adults Board.
Community cohesion.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by You can call me Bill »

I actually find it hard to understand how all of this isn't a bigger news story.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by RodneyRegis »

Enrichment everywhere.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by eldanielfire »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:52 pm
jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:22 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
Men work longer hours. They work in more dangerous jobs. They work in industries they pay more. Women take time off for babies.

No one is complaining about female dominated industries such as teaching, nursing and childcare.

If you think the wage gap exists, give up 13% of your salary or whatever the difference is.
Broadly this. We can also add women under 30 earn more:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/ ... tudy-finds

Which shows it's the choice to have families. As pointed out this ironically means in more gender equal countries the gender pay in areas such as banking or Stem is bigger. So we get Albania as the European country with the high proportion of women in STEM and Iran with the highest percentage of engineers who are female:

https://www.ocnal.com/2018/03/albania-w ... women.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman ... are-women/

The irony of course is Albania has such a high female entry to STEM is due to a lack of career options there. In Iran it's got a well educated populace but women are frozen out of jobs in all sorts of areas, politics most famously.

It's also more to do with the fact females make better life choices. And better life choices can't be measured by money. Jobs which allow more family time, less soulless, more caring, shorter hours, more fulfilling will be more likely taken by women. Men will choose more stressful jobs which impacts their mental health, men are more likely to commit suicide etc.

I suppose this is why statistics, or selective use of statistics aren't a good indicator of an argument unless you view the context correctly. There are certainly other fights to have over women's fairness in society to be had. But for some reason, this is one people are stuck on. I believe you cna't make progress by trying to fight old battles.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by badmannotinjapan »

There was also a study done in Sweden I think it was, Jordan Peterson referenced it, the more non-typical gender careers were encouraged, the greater the typical gender career choices became.

If you're going to introduce into law a gender equality pay act, where women are payed more than men to make up for the so called wage gap then you're introducing a law based on discrimination.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by You can call me Bill »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:20 pm There was also a study done in Sweden I think it was, Jordan Peterson referenced it, the more non-typical gender careers were encouraged, the greater the typical gender career choices became.

If you're going to introduce into law a gender equality pay act, where women are payed more than men to make up for the so called wage gap then you're introducing a law based on discrimination.
This is what I'm talking about. We still live in a world where there are probably millions of women kept basically as sex slaves, or forced to work as prostitutes, their whole lives controlled by pimps and gangs etc, or as domestic servants, or otherwise in domestic servitude against their will. And we're concerned as a society in pursuing policies such as enshrining in law that women get paid more than men for doing the same thing. There's on the one hand a REAL massive problem whereby a significant minority of women around the world live without even the most basic human rights and basic human living conditions and without any hope of escaping their lives of misery, and on the other hand basically a theoretical, hypothetical or even some might say imaginary statistical issue. And the western world focuses on the latter (and other relatively speaking and comparatively, trivial issues) as the way of fighting for the rights of women. It's bizarre.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by mdaclarke »

You can call me Bill wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:01 pm
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:20 pm There was also a study done in Sweden I think it was, Jordan Peterson referenced it, the more non-typical gender careers were encouraged, the greater the typical gender career choices became.

If you're going to introduce into law a gender equality pay act, where women are payed more than men to make up for the so called wage gap then you're introducing a law based on discrimination.
This is what I'm talking about. We still live in a world where there are probably millions of women kept basically as sex slaves, or forced to work as prostitutes, their whole lives controlled by pimps and gangs etc, or as domestic servants, or otherwise in domestic servitude against their will. And we're concerned as a society in pursuing policies such as enshrining in law that women get paid more than men for doing the same thing. There's on the one hand a REAL massive problem whereby a significant minority of women around the world live without even the most basic human rights and basic human living conditions and without any hope of escaping their lives of misery, and on the other hand basically a theoretical, hypothetical or even some might say imaginary statistical issue. And the western world focuses on the latter (and other relatively speaking and comparatively, trivial issues) as the way of fighting for the rights of women. It's bizarre.
Agree 100%, easier to do what looks good rather than something that will actually make a difference.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by merlin the happy pig »

jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:35 am
merlin the happy pig wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:29 am
jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:22 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
And we're off into the weeds again.
I think I have an idea of what you mean, but in case I’m wrong can you elaborate
There is an elephant in the room, and everyone is busy examining the mouse in the corner.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by DragsterDriver »

Do they compare notes at the mosque? That’s a lot of different nationalities.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:54 pm
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

:uhoh:
Confused?
No, the Onus is on you to prove your point.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:29 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:54 pm
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

:uhoh:
Confused?
No, the Onus is on you to prove your point.
The onus is on you to do your research.
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Zakar
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Zakar »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:43 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:29 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:54 pm
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

:uhoh:
Confused?
No, the Onus is on you to prove your point.
The onus is on you to do your research.
No, it's really not.

Send us a link to the study, not 'oh there was something that Jordan Peterson mentioned'

The studies I've seen, balanced for occupation (so teaching/nursing/childcare doesn't unbalance the equation), still show a imbalance of 6%.

An immediate thing that can be done is encouraging paternity leave. My firm has 24 weeks, but I've got friends that get a week or less. We're having kids, and I certainly plan on taking roughly the same amount of time off as my wife... but I'm the exception, because my firm is generous (and using leave to attract staff).
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by MungoMan »

Zakar wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:04 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:43 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:29 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:54 pm
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 am

:uhoh:
Confused?
No, the Onus is on you to prove your point.
The onus is on you to do your research.
No, it's really not.

Send us a link to the study, not 'oh there was something that Jordan Peterson mentioned'

The studies I've seen, balanced for occupation (so teaching/nursing/childcare doesn't unbalance the equation), still show a imbalance of 6%.

An immediate thing that can be done is encouraging paternity leave. My firm has 24 weeks, but I've got friends that get a week or less. We're having kids, and I certainly plan on taking roughly the same amount of time off as my wife... but I'm the exception, because my firm is generous (and using leave to attract staff).
Yeah, parental leave was a things for maters but not paters back when Ms MungoSpouse birthed our two offspring years ago. Thankfully I had lots of unused long service leave, most of which was duly used.

Would have been nice to have had a wee bit of parental leave so I could have done a bigger and better job of bludging on long service leave prior to calling it quits for good.
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4071
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by 4071 »

P in VG wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:40 am
jambanja wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:22 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:10 pm Sadly what many many women around the world endure is sickening and heartbreaking. I don't want to cause a shitfight or distract or detract from the story, but it's why it grinds my gears when I hear about the gender pay gap and opportunities for western women, ALL THE TIME.

What actually desperately needs focusing on is rescuing women from abuse and control over their lives to the extent that their lives are stolen from them for the benefit of sick criminals and scumbags.

It's not whataboutery, it's a blind and self occupied society ignoring the real issues for the sake of trivialities.
Well the gender pay gap is a myth for a start.

Also interesting..."mainly not white..."...
Please explain your reasoning here, because as far as I’m aware it’s real, so you’ll obviously have facts and figures at hand
Don't want to come across all Jordan Petersonesque but...

It's not a fair comparison because women go off and have babies all the time.

Also men are more likely (possibly due to historical patriarchal social conditioning) to display traits that are helpful to acquire higher earning positions of power (CEOs etc) - this also skews the figures massively.

(This is only for Western society - I'm not talking about developing countries where sexism & oppression is a reality for many women)
:lol:

It's not that there's a gender pay gap - it's just that men get given higher paying jobs. That skews the figures, you see.
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4071
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by 4071 »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:20 pm There was also a study done in Sweden I think it was, Jordan Peterson referenced it, the more non-typical gender careers were encouraged, the greater the typical gender career choices became.

If you're going to introduce into law a gender equality pay act, where women are payed more than men to make up for the so called wage gap then you're introducing a law based on discrimination.
I think it was this study done in the UK and US, but using data from a number of different countries (including Sweden).

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 7617741719

Summary of the findings as reported in Science Daily:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 150132.htm
Dubbed the 'gender equality paradox', the research found that countries such as Albania and Algeria have a greater percentage of women amongst their STEM graduates than countries lauded for their high levels of gender equality, such as Finland, Norway or Sweden.

The researchers, from Leeds Beckett University in the UK and the University of Missouri in the USA, believe this might be because countries with less gender equality often have little welfare support, making the choice of a relatively highly-paid STEM career more attractive.

...

Using data on 475,000 adolescents across 67 countries or regions, the researchers found that while boys' and girls' achievement in STEM subjects was broadly similar, science was more likely to be boys' best subject. Girls, even when their ability in science equalled or excelled that of boys, were often likely to be better overall in reading comprehension, which relates to higher ability in non-STEM subjects. Girls also tended to register a lower interest in science subjects. These differences were near-universal across all the countries and regions studied.

This could explain some of the gender disparity in STEM participation, as Gijsbert Stoet, Professor in Psychology from Leeds Beckett University explains.

...

Countries with higher gender equality tend also to be welfare states, providing a high level of social security for their citizens, compared to those with lower gender equality which tend to have less secure and more difficult living conditions. Using the UNESCO overall life satisfaction (OLS) figures as a proxy for economic opportunity and hardship, the researchers found that in more gender equal countries, overall life satisfaction was higher.

Professor Stoet said: "STEM careers are generally secure and well-paid but the risks of not following such a path can vary. In more affluent countries where any choice of career feels relatively safe, women may feel able to make choices based on non-economic factors. Conversely, in countries with fewer economic opportunities, or where employment might be precarious, a well-paid and relatively secure STEM career can be more attractive to women."

Professor Geary adds: "Essentially when you lessen economic concerns, as is the case in gender-equal countries, personal preferences are more strongly expressed. In this situation, sex differences in academic strengths and occupational interests more strongly influence college and career choices, creating the STEM paradox we describe."
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by mdaclarke »

Classic Planet Rugby, the thread morphs into something completely unrelated.

My view for what is is worth is that these girls have been sacrificed at the altar of political correctness. I don't believe what the report says that this was not down to political correctness.
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4071
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by 4071 »

mdaclarke wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:07 am Classic Planet Rugby, the thread morphs into something completely unrelated.

My view for what is is worth is that these girls have been sacrificed at the altar of political correctness. I don't believe what the report says that this was not down to political correctness.
Of course that's what you believe.

The police are well-known for political correctness. Certainly far more than for laziness and incompetence.
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

4071 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:52 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:20 pm There was also a study done in Sweden I think it was, Jordan Peterson referenced it, the more non-typical gender careers were encouraged, the greater the typical gender career choices became.

If you're going to introduce into law a gender equality pay act, where women are payed more than men to make up for the so called wage gap then you're introducing a law based on discrimination.
I think it was this study done in the UK and US, but using data from a number of different countries (including Sweden).

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 7617741719

Summary of the findings as reported in Science Daily:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 150132.htm
Dubbed the 'gender equality paradox', the research found that countries such as Albania and Algeria have a greater percentage of women amongst their STEM graduates than countries lauded for their high levels of gender equality, such as Finland, Norway or Sweden.

The researchers, from Leeds Beckett University in the UK and the University of Missouri in the USA, believe this might be because countries with less gender equality often have little welfare support, making the choice of a relatively highly-paid STEM career more attractive.

...

Using data on 475,000 adolescents across 67 countries or regions, the researchers found that while boys' and girls' achievement in STEM subjects was broadly similar, science was more likely to be boys' best subject. Girls, even when their ability in science equalled or excelled that of boys, were often likely to be better overall in reading comprehension, which relates to higher ability in non-STEM subjects. Girls also tended to register a lower interest in science subjects. These differences were near-universal across all the countries and regions studied.

This could explain some of the gender disparity in STEM participation, as Gijsbert Stoet, Professor in Psychology from Leeds Beckett University explains.

...

Countries with higher gender equality tend also to be welfare states, providing a high level of social security for their citizens, compared to those with lower gender equality which tend to have less secure and more difficult living conditions. Using the UNESCO overall life satisfaction (OLS) figures as a proxy for economic opportunity and hardship, the researchers found that in more gender equal countries, overall life satisfaction was higher.

Professor Stoet said: "STEM careers are generally secure and well-paid but the risks of not following such a path can vary. In more affluent countries where any choice of career feels relatively safe, women may feel able to make choices based on non-economic factors. Conversely, in countries with fewer economic opportunities, or where employment might be precarious, a well-paid and relatively secure STEM career can be more attractive to women."

Professor Geary adds: "Essentially when you lessen economic concerns, as is the case in gender-equal countries, personal preferences are more strongly expressed. In this situation, sex differences in academic strengths and occupational interests more strongly influence college and career choices, creating the STEM paradox we describe."
So boys like to blow shit up more than girls
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Re: WTF? Newcastle police locked-up 700 victims rather than the perpetrators.

Post by eldanielfire »

4071 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:28 am
mdaclarke wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:07 am Classic Planet Rugby, the thread morphs into something completely unrelated.

My view for what is is worth is that these girls have been sacrificed at the altar of political correctness. I don't believe what the report says that this was not down to political correctness.
Of course that's what you believe.

The police are well-known for political correctness. Certainly far more than for laziness and incompetence.
Given the numerous exposures since Rochdale of Grooming gangs not being dealt with due to fear of political correctness it's fair to say many police forces problems are a result of a weird take on Political correctness today, to the point of not caring about actual crimes being brought to justice.

Like most people I just wish they systematically dealt with crime and disorder effectively and police the jurisdictions they are responsible for to make us safe. Not acting like racist wankers stitching people up for crimes they didn't do or allowing literally thousands of vulnerable children to continue to be abused without any justice for politically correct optics, letting criminals get away with it for politics.

This certainly feels like another case of a great over correction on their part. Just prevent crime and investigate and and bring to justice criminals. That is pretty much all anyone wants.
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