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Jordie Barrett: The hero, with his 78th minute heart-pounder of a penalty goal, which was by no means a sitter. That made it 5/5 off the tee on the night. Was also outstanding under the high ball, in what was always going to be such a critical facet of this contest. 8
Will Jordan: Sublime 45-metre finish for third-minute try – which ended up as the All Blacks’ only one of the night. Looked likely on a couple of other breaks, but dropped the ball in one tackle and delivered a forward pass on another. Off after 58 minutes. 6
Rieko Ioane: By far the quietest game of the year for a man who has been having a storming season in black. Ball just didn’t see his hands, while the Boks kicking meant he didn’t have much D to do either. 4
David Havili: Plenty of endeavour with strong carries, but they couldn’t be turned into anything more, including one bad between-the-legs mistake. Strong on the other side of the ball. 5
George Bridge: Picked ahead of Reece due to aerial superiority, but was instead found wanting with early shocker in dropping de Klerk bomb over his shoulder, gifting Nkosi a try. Followed up with two more bad drops under the high ball. Got back involved with a few runs. Off with nine to go. 4
Beauden Barrett: A few stray passes and an aimless kick early, before looking dangerous in going to the line to set an attack going. But didn’t have many more digs after that, apart from late on. Raced up to apply defensive pressure and a couple of quality penalty touchfinders. 5
TJ Perenara: Mostly solid from the base, but hardly any phase play. Badly cleaned out at an attacking ruck by Kolisi to squander attacking opportunity, and one particularly bad pass to Havili. Frustration boiled in constant complaining about Springboks holding the ball with quick taps wanted. Off with 15 minutes to play. 5
Ardie Savea: Toiled away against the big Boks and used a bit of footwork, but none of his usual eye-catching ball-in-hand work. Captaincy got asked big questions when he opted to turn down multiple shots at goal. 5
Ethan Blackadder: Late call-up to start following Jacobson stomach bug, and was the best forward on the park. Backing up outstanding display against the Pumas the previous week, he was into absolutely everything. Picked up one of just two ABs turnovers on the night and made a game-high 10 tackles, including the key late one on Le Roux for the penalty. Huge work at the front of the lineout, also. 8
Akira Ioane: Very quiet first 40, then a bad knock on near halftime. A bit more involved in the second stanza, but purple undies were the main takeaway. Off with 10 to play. 4
Scott Barrett: One huge charge up the middle early, but wasn’t the same physical presence he had been of late, and also lost a lineout ball. Replaced with 15 minutes left. 5
Brodie Retallick: Pinged a couple of times early by ref Luke Pearce, but put that behind him, nabbing NZ’s only lineout steal of the night, and muscling up in the rough and tumble areas, making nine tackles. 7
Nepo Laulala: Held up his side of the scrum well, defended stoutly, made several heavy charges without much profit, but will rue his bad knock on early in the second spell with the tryline just a metre away. Off after 58 minutes. 5
Codie Taylor: Stunning bust to set up early try, then fine support play on Scott Barrett’s big run. Lineout throwing fell apart early in second half. Seven tackles without a miss. Off with 16 minutes left. 7
Joe Moody: Struggled early in scrum battle against Frans Malherbe, conceding a (dubious) penalty, then also a free kick. Later pinged for offside. No carry metres, one tackle. Off with 22 to play. 4
RESERVES
Samisoni Taukei’aho: On for final 16 minutes, made a couple of hard, important carries in closing the game out. 5
Karl Tu’inukuafe: Played the last 22 minutes, banged to turf by Koch to concede a scrum penalty. 3
Ofa Tuungafasi: Also on with 22 to go, showed some early soft hands and got involved, but then also had a handling error as scoring chance loomed. Scrum penalty, too. 4
Patrick Tuipulotu: Made an impact in the final quarter of an hour and his good charge and offload put Weber away for a near thing. 6
Hoskins Sotutu: Late bench callup in Jacobson reshuffle and got 10 minutes to try chase the win. Big hack downfield got ABs some treasured territory, then pulled out a chip and chase, and had a lineout stolen off him. 5
Brad Weber: Upped the tempo in the final quarter of an hour, and his bust looked like leading to a try. 6
Damian McKenzie: Injected at fullback for final quarter, but couldn’t get hands on the pill much, with some shakes under the high ball. Some handy scramble defence. 4
Quinn Tupaea: Played the least time of anyone – nine minutes – but perhaps made the most telling play, with his brilliant effort over the ball seeing him win the ruck turnover penalty which led to the matchwinning penalty goal. 7
Yes I would agree. I used strongest in the literal sense. He's the strongest but I wouldn't necessarily say the best though I would say he's the best mauling prop we have. Ofa and Tu'inukuafe are taller with longer levers than Laulala and Moody but both are a step down and that was noticeable in yesterday's game.Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:27 amHaving played Rugby for many years, I typically found tall players were the best maulers I played with or against. As long as their body position is low enough, their longer levers allow them to be very effective in this facet of the game.Pakia Pakia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:22 amIt's not a metric. He usually gets himself in a position centre of the maul where he has low body position and both arms bound. This allows him to use his immense strength and you usually see our attacking maul moving forward or the other teams maul stopped in its tracks.Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:19 amI'd love to know how you have measured this metric?Pakia Pakia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:14 am Laulala played his best game of the year and he is the strongest mauler in our team on attack and defense.
Sounds a visitor we had from Auckland who thought Christchurch was the deep south.Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:35 pm As a aside, the commentators kept referring to Townsville as "Far North QLD". No-one who lives in Townsville would consider the area "Far North QLD". It's simply North QLD. There's nearly 1500 km of coast further north of Townsville. FNQ is from Innisfail up.
Everything South of the Bombays is the Deep South. We didn’t bother to distinguish who’s plucking which particular banjo.Fat Old Git wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:04 amSounds a visitor we had from Auckland who thought Christchurch was the deep south.Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:35 pm As a aside, the commentators kept referring to Townsville as "Far North QLD". No-one who lives in Townsville would consider the area "Far North QLD". It's simply North QLD. There's nearly 1500 km of coast further north of Townsville. FNQ is from Innisfail up.
trapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:30 am I’ve said it before and I will say it again, TJ should not be starting Test matches, go on all you like about how tough he is, how many caps he has got, how good his box kicks are but his most basic role of clearing the ball quickly and effectively is nowhere near what it should be and his decision making last night…. Jesus.
The ref facilitated the Bok game plan by allowing repeated substantial stoppages in play for props & hookers .The AB's got pinged for closing the gap at the 1st line out without a warning. They got penalised for collapsing the scrum when the bok hit the deck, they got penalised for boring in when the boks scrum was going backwards, only to be penalised for the thing the boks did at the next scrum?
The boks jumped across the linout the whole night penalised once, and the halfback was being attacked prior to picking up the ball from players on the side. They didn’t lose as you say, but the were out reffed.
Not excusing his shithouse passing but if your forwards are doing the square root of f*ck all to ensure quick, clean ruck ball and your opposition is hugely disruptive, it makes the job a bit more difficult.grouch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:10 amtrapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:30 am I’ve said it before and I will say it again, TJ should not be starting Test matches, go on all you like about how tough he is, how many caps he has got, how good his box kicks are but his most basic role of clearing the ball quickly and effectively is nowhere near what it should be and his decision making last night…. Jesus.
And yet Webber was fine.The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:21 amNot excusing his shithouse passing but if your forwards are doing the square root of f*ck all to ensure quick, clean ruck ball and your opposition is hugely disruptive, it makes the job a bit more difficult.grouch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:10 amtrapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:30 am I’ve said it before and I will say it again, TJ should not be starting Test matches, go on all you like about how tough he is, how many caps he has got, how good his box kicks are but his most basic role of clearing the ball quickly and effectively is nowhere near what it should be and his decision making last night…. Jesus.
The last 15 minutes the Springboks were knackered and weren’t being as disruptive. Our superior fitness finally started to play dividends.trapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:31 amAnd yet Webber was fine.The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:21 amNot excusing his shithouse passing but if your forwards are doing the square root of f*ck all to ensure quick, clean ruck ball and your opposition is hugely disruptive, it makes the job a bit more difficult.grouch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:10 amtrapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:30 am I’ve said it before and I will say it again, TJ should not be starting Test matches, go on all you like about how tough he is, how many caps he has got, how good his box kicks are but his most basic role of clearing the ball quickly and effectively is nowhere near what it should be and his decision making last night…. Jesus.
Which begs the question , how much more/earlier would they have been knackered if their rush defense wasn't enabled by slowmo clearance of slow ball?The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:34 amThe last 15 minutes the Springboks were knackered and weren’t being as disruptive. Our superior fitness finally started to play dividends.trapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:31 amAnd yet Webber was fine.The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:21 amNot excusing his shithouse passing but if your forwards are doing the square root of f*ck all to ensure quick, clean ruck ball and your opposition is hugely disruptive, it makes the job a bit more difficult.grouch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:10 amtrapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:30 am I’ve said it before and I will say it again, TJ should not be starting Test matches, go on all you like about how tough he is, how many caps he has got, how good his box kicks are but his most basic role of clearing the ball quickly and effectively is nowhere near what it should be and his decision making last night…. Jesus.
The All Blacks were outmuscled at the breakdown, simple as that. And then officials enabled the Springboks taking injury break after injury break.grouch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:39 amWhich begs the question , how much more/earlier would they have been knackered if their rush defense wasn't enabled by slowmo clearance of slow ball?The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:34 amThe last 15 minutes the Springboks were knackered and weren’t being as disruptive. Our superior fitness finally started to play dividends.trapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:31 amAnd yet Webber was fine.The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:21 amNot excusing his shithouse passing but if your forwards are doing the square root of f*ck all to ensure quick, clean ruck ball and your opposition is hugely disruptive, it makes the job a bit more difficult.
The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:54 amNo. I’d still have Weber. His passing woes were somewhat mitigated by our forwards allowing the Springboks being disruptive.
Yeah Laulala was good he has been steadily improving each week since getting into the more disciplined All Black environment as I think earlier in the season he was not at the fitness level he was in previous seasons. I remember watching the Blues VS Crusaders here in the round before the SR Aotearoa final and he was walking from ruck to ruck most of the time.Pakia Pakia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:14 amI thought it was a good effort from Blackadder to tidy up his play after he conceded 4 penalties and missed 5 tackles last week. Shows the value of sticking with developing players who have good potential but lack experience at this level.Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:04 am A couple of key stats stick out for me from this match.
The Springboks kicked the ball 38 times in general play. When you take out all the time lost for scrums, lineouts and fake injuries, and take into account that possession was roughly 50/50, the Springboks kicked the ball every 30 seconds when in possession. The AB's kicked the ball 18 times in general play.
The All Blacks executed 13 offloads to the Springbok's 1. That shows the mindset of both teams. Offloading is risky, but can also create attacking opportunities. The AB's created opportunities that usually led to errors, whereas the Springboks were extremely risk averse - especially when you couple this data with their kicking stats. I think the AB's will look to play tighter next week, and perhaps the Springboks will look to di a bit more with the ball?
Ethan Blackadder had good stats for the game. He was our highest tackler (10 tackles), most prolific lineout winner, conceded no penalties and interestingly had six passes, which shows that he is working on his distributive game. I thought he was our best forward, and second best overall performer behind Jordie Barrett.
Laulala played his best game of the year and he is the strongest mauler in our team on attack and defense.
Agreed. In addition to those clear errors of judgement, I would also ask why Savea did not question the Springboks' continual slowing of the game. Would it not have been straightforward captaincy to sidle up to the ref and say something like, 'Look mate, this is the third time they have stopped the game in the past five minutes alleging an injury. Can we just get on and play some rugby here?'The Native wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:09 amExactly how I saw it.Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:02 am I'm very happy with the result, I'll take any win against SA. But that was a poor quality performance from the AB's. Of course we only played as well as we were allowed to play and the Springboks deserve plenty of credit, but there were so many bad decisions made by the AB's team tonight. Hopefully Ian Foster's video review session is honest and reflective, because we made enough errors to lose three tests tonight. Special mention to two players, Jordie Barrett and Ethan Blackadder. I thought they were our best tonight. Great kick by Jordie to win the match. Why we turned up two east penalty shots in the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half I'll never know.
The All Blacks want to score tries but I really think they should just be points greedy. Take penalties when offered, they’re good enough to score tries from anywhere but spurning opportunities to get three points attempting to get five is wrongheaded. Est when the line out is getting schooled and our handling can’t be relied on.
How much do you enjoy being frustrated and hearing phrases like “here comes the inevitable kick”?Fat Old Git wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:19 am So I'm watching the replay now, and both trys have already been scored. Given what I've read here about the quality of the match, is it worth watching the rest of it? Is there entertaining play to be seen, or just a lot of frustration?
I imagine the closeness of the score would have added some excitement live, but unfortunately I already know the result.
Taranaki Snapper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:26 am One of the briefest highlight packages you'll ever see...
The Springboks went down faster and more often than a nymphomaniac when the fleets in port!Fat Old Git wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:05 am You guys weren't kidding about the Boks slowing it down wherever possible.
Neither team seems to be playing all that well. It's been keystone Cops more often than not. Not really what we had hoped for in such a historic match.
I would swap out Perenara as well. Or teach him to pass in front of the players to run on to. He had us on the back foot all night - didn't give the backs a chance of getting around the rush defencemrbrownstone wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:12 pmDon't think it was a flush the dunny performance at all. Room for improvement, sure. But we pulled through in a tight one against the World Champs. That something to celebrate and build on. Can't win them all by 30.
Also, no. Pick the top team, foot on the throat. No room for rotation against the Boks. Bridge out and ALB and Jacobsen back would be my only changes.
mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:58 am On another note, can anyone remember a more "Safe White Boy" back three for the ABs than Bridge /Jordan/Jordie?
I'm sure there are a few, but none immediately spring to mind.
As I said in another post, turn them with kicks, outflank them/get outside the umbrella (as Grouch points out, you need quick delivery from the forwards and halfback and accurate passing) and, yes, youse the flat attack, but not quiet so flat as Fozzy seems to have it.grouch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:29 pmAgreed , but if that's your plan pick the right people.The Native wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52 amIt’s the best tactic to negate rush defense.Ted. wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:37 amThey've always executed that game plan poorly, basically because it is a high risk and high reward, but the reward occurs far less than the failures.The Native wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:04 amI think the players deserves a good portion of the blame. How often did their execution cost position, possession and points.
I think Savea has a big question mark over his leadership as well.
We've been here and done that multiple times when Fozzy was Hansen's attack coach and beyond (it was acknowledged by him as his baby) and we've discussed it endlessly and berated Fozzy berated for it.
So why does he insist on pulling it out against teams who are particularly adept at the rush defence? It's because he a stick in the mud, dyed in the wool, fucking moron.
I’d like to hear you’d do in his position.
Perenara was effing diabolical , the plan depends on moving the ball quickly from breakdown/ruck.
TJ reminded me tonite of Marshall for 80% of his AB career.
I like the man , a lot. But AB starting halfback he aint.
Oh yes , Luke Pearce is a prize plum.
15 Willie le Roux (6): He was hesitant on defence and right at the death of the match, with his team in the lead, he did not release in the tackle to give Barrett the shot at winning the match.
14 Sbu Nkosi (6): His work rate off the ball is always good and that meant he was in a position to gather the ball from a Faf de Klerk hoist into the All Blacks 22 and score. He can be over-eager, though, and his yellow card for a deliberate knock-down was silly.
13 Lukhanyo Am (7): The little ball that he did get he showed nice touches while his defence was rock solid. It is a pity that he did get any real opportunities to attack.
12 Damian de Allende (7): His defence was nothing short of excellent. He carried strongly as always but like, Am did not get enough opportunities to attack.
11 Makazola Mapimpi (5): He has a tendency to give penalties away at rucks and in the air, and sometimes it seems he doesn’t have a full grasp of the rules, such as when he gave a penalty away for coming in from the side and sealing of the ball at a breakdown.
10 Handre Pollard (4): He missed an easy conversion of Nkosi’s try which in the context of a tight game was crucial but his biggest sin was poor game management at vital times, such as kicking the ball away when the Boks had momentum. A prime example was when he kicked when the Boks had the All Blacks back-pedalling, and then the kick went dead over the goal line. A positive was much-improved tackling.
9 Faf de Klerk (7): I understand that the Boks are playing to a plan but there are also occasions when the game drivers have to use instinct and pass the ball and not kick. One of his up and unders was pinpoint, though, and led to Nkosi’s try. Faf tackled like a terrier and was tenacious in general play.
8 Duane Vermeulen (7): He is getting back to his best form and won an important penalty over the ball at a ruck. He gave away penalty for a collision in the air but generally had a decent game.
7 Kwagga Smith (8): His selection was a controversial one but he silenced the critics with a performance that was as tireless as it was effective. He won a few penalties and overall made a nuisance of himself all over the park.
6 Siya Kolisi (9): The captain came in for fair criticism after under-par performances against the Wallabies but he responded by being the best Bok on the pitch. He carried strongly, counter-rucked with venom and tackled ceaselessly.
5 Lood de Jager (8): He ran the lineouts intelligently and personally stole two of the All Blacks’ throws. He worked industriously in the tight loose.
4 Eben Etzebeth (7): He missed an important tackle on Codie Taylor that led to the All Blacks’ try and gave away a penalty in stopping a maul but countered this by taking one of the All Blacks’ lineouts and worked ferociously in all aspects of forward play.
3 Frans Malherbe (8): Did his job in the set scums impressively as always. He gave Joe Moody a tough time and also had a few strong carries.
2 Bongi Mbonambi (6): He had a fair game without standing out too much and was substituted at halftime so he did not have that much opportunity to impress.
1 Trevor Nyakane (7): He had some good carries and scrummed solidly but also did not get alot of game time before being replaced by Steven Kitshoff.
Replacements
Malcolm Marx (8): He came on at halftime and straight away was good with accurate lineout throws-ins under pressure on the Bok line. He was a menace in the loose as usual
Steven Kitshoff (8): His scrumming was awesome and he gave his all in the loose.
Vincent Koch (8): He came onto the field in the 63rd minute and immediately won a scrum penalty. His scrumming was exceptional.
Franco Mostert (6): He came on early in the second half and as is the norm with him, he gave everything but sadly it was his spilled pass right at then of the game that gave the All Blacks the chance to kick the ball into touch and win the game
Marco van Staden (9): He came on in the 63rd minute and could not have made a bigger impact. He carried the ball powerfully and in one break he made 30m up the centre of the field.
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Somewhere in New Zealand a condom manufacturer is thinking of his next line:guy smiley wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:55 amZuLurk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:03 amMains had a scathing attack on the Springbokke black players Nkosi, Mapimpi and Am and said they are not up to international standardmrbrownstone wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:58 am On another note, can anyone remember a more "Safe White Boy" back three for the ABs than Bridge/Jordan/Jordie?
I'm sure there are a few, but none immediately spring to mind.
The fabled double whoosh... it happens
Yeah yeah the Mocker Gods are still laughing about your joke too ... the ball is under the Bridgeguy smiley wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:18 am It's always a shame to have to explain a joke but you need this and we can all do with a break from the sound of your head banging on the brick wall...
'safe white guy' is a joke term Kiwis use... it started because there were some high profile types within NZ rugby many years ago who preferred a 'safe' player over a coloured player. It was simple racism that viewed Maori or PI players as inferior, lazy, prone to mistakes or whatever other faults the lazy racist old bastards felt like throwing their way.
I think it was Mr Brownstone who used the term here, earlier? Can't remember... but all of us Kiwis got the joke.
You just kept whooshing yourself with it.
He's probably not wrong, rating the players' performances individually and in isolation. The AB players made a lot of mistakes, the Bok players less so although giving some Boks 8 or 9 ratings is a bit much.kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:22 am SA ratings - in total 141 / 7.05 ave
Nz ratings - in total 122 / 5.3 ave
They were 33% better than the All Blacks - looks like we were lucky not to be beaten more severely….
https://supersport.com/rugby/springboks ... d_Nienaber“The game plan worked, we had opportunities and they had opportunities. It came down to the wire and a call here and a bounce of the ball there went for them and sometimes it goes for you. It’s swings and roundabouts,”
The All Black what? One of my pet hates, leaving out the most critical part of the message.The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:12 am Most of us thought that the All Black would prove the difference. It did, just not in the way we expected. Instead of the Springboks falling off the pace and leaving gaps for the All Blacks to run through their brains just stopped working.
Actually been thinking lately if maybe Josh Lord the young Naki lock might be getting looked at soon, he needs a little more weight, but he just turned 20, and has already had a season of Super rugby under his belt. Was watching him in game today he certainly getting better all the time. Can see him Vai'i,PPP, and maybe Selby-Rickett as ones to come thorugh to partner up with Barrett after 23!Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:17 amScott Barrett has never been a strong lineout winner, even at Super Rugby level. His strength at lineout time is as a lifter. Also, Brodie Retallick has also never been a dominant lineout winner at test level. During our golden era (2011-2015) Kieran Read won around 60% of our total lineouts and the next best winner was Sam Whitelock.kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:12 am Blackadder at lineout was awesome.
For me however the criticism is of BBBR and ScoBa plus the hookers. By going front ball at the line out it slows our ball to the backs just that little bit more - and put more pressure on BB/DH.
We’ve got to have options mid and back that we can execute.
We need to be developing a 2metre + option to come into the team, because we've functioned best with two tall locks. I'm not sure why Paripari Parkinson has constantly been overlooked, I can only guess that there is a serious flaw in his game or character that most of us are unaware of?
Fitness.jdogscoop wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 amThe All Black what? One of my pet hates, leaving out the most critical part of the message.The Native wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:12 am Most of us thought that the All Black would prove the difference. It did, just not in the way we expected. Instead of the Springboks falling off the pace and leaving gaps for the All Blacks to run through their brains just stopped working.