Bye bye Beauden

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El Flash
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Bye bye Beauden

Post by El Flash »

TJ Perenara was shocking last night but it still does not excuse Beauden Barretts lame performance running that backline.
4 of his first 5 passes went either to ground or to a player in a far worse position than himself. That's unforgivable for a player in almost his 100th Test.
It has been said before that Barrett is at his best when the game becomes fractured & that was not last night. With the Boks using the very effective umbrella defence he did not once chip over the back to at least have the Bok centres thinking. He looked rushed, insecure & in 2 minds most of the game.
Bring on Richie Mo'unga. A natural 5/8 in the Carter mould.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Ali's Choice »

I think it's unfair to target or criticise BB. We all know that he lacks the skills to thrive against a rush defensive system, and we saw this again last night. He simply cannot create space or time for his backline against the kind of defense we saw in Townsville. And there are no gaps to exploit with his own waning running game. BB was okay yesterday, a solid 'C', not great but not bad. His passing was poor early on because he was clearly rattled by the lack of time he had. Whilst he created nothing in attack, I though his defensive kicks and kicks for touch were solid.
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Pakia Pakia
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Pakia Pakia »

A team unbeaten this year beats the world champions and there are multiple call out threads for players to be dropped.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Ali's Choice »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:06 am A team unbeaten this year beats the world champions and there are multiple call out threads for players to be dropped.
All Blacks fans. The day after any test match AB fans on internet chat sites take the opportunity to take parochial swipes at players from other provinces/franchises.
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guy smiley
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by guy smiley »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:06 am A team unbeaten this year beats the world champions and there are multiple call out threads for players to be dropped.
Ted made a comment during his time as AB coach that stands up on its own as a simple principle...

'we're still trying to play the perfect game'.

To that end, I reserve the right to criticise your pet players, your favourites, your lapdogs and your reacharound crew as and when I see fit.
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guy smiley
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by guy smiley »

but Couch is a f**kwit
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Fat Old Git
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Fat Old Git »

I've been reliably informed that our poor performance is all down to George Bridge. So don't understand this call out.
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mrbrownstone
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by mrbrownstone »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:09 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:06 am A team unbeaten this year beats the world champions and there are multiple call out threads for players to be dropped.
All Blacks fans. The day after any test match AB fans on internet chat sites take the opportunity to take parochial swipes at players from other provinces/franchises.
A sign of hubris imo that they clearly don't rate the Boks. The opposition are actually allowed to play well and disrupt your plans, and you can't win em all by 40. Beating the world champs by any margin is something to be celebrated.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Fat Old Git wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:34 am I've been reliably informed that our poor performance is all down to George Bridge. So don't understand this call out.
GB and I have a mutual friend. A reliable confident. He advised me the ABs have zero trust in GB, payed the piper to drop bombs all day in an effort to make him perform bad and be dropped.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by badmannotinjapan »

mrbrownstone wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:45 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:09 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:06 am A team unbeaten this year beats the world champions and there are multiple call out threads for players to be dropped.
All Blacks fans. The day after any test match AB fans on internet chat sites take the opportunity to take parochial swipes at players from other provinces/franchises.
A sign of hubris imo that they clearly don't rate the Boks. The opposition are actually allowed to play well and disrupt your plans, and you can't win em all by 40. Beating the world champs by any margin is something to be celebrated.
To be fair though, had GB not dropped that bomb, and there's a lot to say about PJP showing little effort to clean up, and the ABs held on to some of the unforced errors the win may have been slightly more comfortable?
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mr bungle
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by mr bungle »

Perenara was offside. Would be a great way to get carded early in the game.
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trapper
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by trapper »

Must admit I thought BB was ok but why O why didn't he put in chip kicks at all? We have seen him do it to great effect in all games he has played this year and when we probably need it most he doesn't use it? Jordan running through to collect a Beaudy chip/grubber has been a thing off beauty this year.

There seemed to be a serious lack of leadership out there last night and that was disappointing.
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jdogscoop
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by jdogscoop »

trapper wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:25 am Must admit I thought BB was ok but why O why didn't he put in chip kicks at all? We have seen him do it to great effect in all games he has played this year and when we probably need it most he doesn't use it? Jordan running through to collect a Beaudy chip/grubber has been a thing off beauty this year.

There seemed to be a serious lack of leadership out there last night and that was disappointing.
BB was okay, but he's not Mo'unga's ringpiece. At least he kicked for the sideline well enough and let his brother kick for goal.
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Ghost-Of-Nepia
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Ghost-Of-Nepia »

Opened this thread, having seen that jdog was the last poster and I thought to myself "what's the bet he's used the word ringpiece somewhere within".

And whaddaya know.
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jdogscoop
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by jdogscoop »

Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:58 am Opened this thread, having seen that jdog was the last poster and I thought to myself "what's the bet he's used the word ringpiece somewhere within".

And whaddaya know.
:D
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jdogscoop
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by jdogscoop »

Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:58 am Opened this thread, having seen that jdog was the last poster and I thought to myself "what's the bet he's used the word ringpiece somewhere within".

And whaddaya know.
At the same time, you were surprised by the faint praise with which I damned Beauden.
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The Native
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by The Native »

El Flash wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:51 am TJ Perenara was shocking last night but it still does not excuse Beauden Barretts lame performance running that backline.
4 of his first 5 passes went either to ground or to a player in a far worse position than himself. That's unforgivable for a player in almost his 100th Test.
It has been said before that Barrett is at his best when the game becomes fractured & that was not last night. With the Boks using the very effective umbrella defence he did not once chip over the back to at least have the Bok centres thinking. He looked rushed, insecure & in 2 minds most of the game.
Bring on Richie Mo'unga. A natural 5/8 in the Carter mould.
😂

You dumb f*ck.
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jdogscoop
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by jdogscoop »

The Native wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 am
El Flash wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:51 am TJ Perenara was shocking last night but it still does not excuse Beauden Barretts lame performance running that backline.
4 of his first 5 passes went either to ground or to a player in a far worse position than himself. That's unforgivable for a player in almost his 100th Test.
It has been said before that Barrett is at his best when the game becomes fractured & that was not last night. With the Boks using the very effective umbrella defence he did not once chip over the back to at least have the Bok centres thinking. He looked rushed, insecure & in 2 minds most of the game.
Bring on Richie Mo'unga. A natural 5/8 in the Carter mould.
😂

You dumb f*ck.
I think El Flash actually raises some good points.
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trapper
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by trapper »

Let’s face it, the team struggled up front and that just ripples back throughout the team and we never got going. RMo wouldn’t have changed that.

They’ll all be better for it next weekend, including Foster.
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Dan54. »

mrbrownstone wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:45 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:09 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:06 am A team unbeaten this year beats the world champions and there are multiple call out threads for players to be dropped.
All Blacks fans. The day after any test match AB fans on internet chat sites take the opportunity to take parochial swipes at players from other provinces/franchises.
A sign of hubris imo that they clearly don't rate the Boks. The opposition are actually allowed to play well and disrupt your plans, and you can't win em all by 40. Beating the world champs by any margin is something to be celebrated.
:thumbup:
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eldanielfire
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by eldanielfire »

Am I the only one who laments that Beauden Barrett was never really pushed to play 12?

He's a highly skilled and quick back but he's not got the nous, creative passing or composure to play 10 after teams figured him out with rush defence tactics and lacks the one on one and positional defence for Full back. But sure he's made for being a combo of distributing, attacking those half gaps for breaks and gain-line metres and taking the pressure off 10 style of 12?

He wouldn't been great IMO.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Ali's Choice »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:01 am Am I the only one who laments that Beauden Barrett was never really pushed to play 12?

He's a highly skilled and quick back but he's not got the nous, creative passing or composure to play 10 after teams figured him out with rush defence tactics and lacks the one on one and positional defence for Full back. But sure he's made for being a combo of distributing, attacking those half gaps for breaks and gain-line metres and taking the pressure off 10 style of 12?

He wouldn't been great IMO.
He's couldn't straighten the attack, and his front on defense isn't his strong suit.
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Kiwias
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Kiwias »

mrbrownstone wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:45 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:09 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:06 am A team unbeaten this year beats the world champions and there are multiple call out threads for players to be dropped.
All Blacks fans. The day after any test match AB fans on internet chat sites take the opportunity to take parochial swipes at players from other provinces/franchises.
A sign of hubris imo that they clearly don't rate the Boks. The opposition are actually allowed to play well and disrupt your plans, and you can't win em all by 40. Beating the world champs by any margin is something to be celebrated.
As I said before the game, I'd be happy with a 1-point win. The Boks may be playing poorly, may well have just come of two consecutive defeat to the Wallabies, but they are the WC champions and we know how they traditionally raise their game against the ABs.
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Grandpa
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Grandpa »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:01 am Am I the only one who laments that Beauden Barrett was never really pushed to play 12?

He's a highly skilled and quick back but he's not got the nous, creative passing or composure to play 10 after teams figured him out with rush defence tactics and lacks the one on one and positional defence for Full back. But sure he's made for being a combo of distributing, attacking those half gaps for breaks and gain-line metres and taking the pressure off 10 style of 12?

He wouldn't been great IMO.
He wouldn't have been great? Why did you mention it then? Or is that a typo? :lol:

In the Owen Farrell style? No for me... not big enough and defensively vulnerable... he wouldn't be great... :D
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guy smiley
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by guy smiley »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:01 am Am I the only one who laments that Beauden Barrett was never really pushed to play 12?

He's a highly skilled and quick back but he's not got the nous, creative passing or composure to play 10 after teams figured him out with rush defence tactics and lacks the one on one and positional defence for Full back. But sure he's made for being a combo of distributing, attacking those half gaps for breaks and gain-line metres and taking the pressure off 10 style of 12?

He wouldn't been great IMO.
Nah. He’s a shithouse distributor. The ABs use that 12 position much more than a line breaker.

BB’s best rugby was off the bench. That’s where he excels
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eldanielfire
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by eldanielfire »

guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:10 am
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:01 am Am I the only one who laments that Beauden Barrett was never really pushed to play 12?

He's a highly skilled and quick back but he's not got the nous, creative passing or composure to play 10 after teams figured him out with rush defence tactics and lacks the one on one and positional defence for Full back. But sure he's made for being a combo of distributing, attacking those half gaps for breaks and gain-line metres and taking the pressure off 10 style of 12?

He wouldn't been great IMO.
Nah. He’s a shithouse distributor. The ABs use that 12 position much more than a line breaker.

BB’s best rugby was off the bench. That’s where he excels
I think he distributes well for a centre, less so when he's the decision maker at 10 and has to create things. I think also he would get a little more time to make the right play at 12 too. My opinion on this is partly that he was never really developed into a 12. I don't think shoving him there would work now, but I do believe he could have been developed into one who could do all the attacking roles of various 12's and been a more effective game changer for New Zealand.

I think also it's harsh to say he played his best off the bench. He was excellent in 2016, even thought i think it's because teams hadn't quite figured him out yet.
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guy smiley
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by guy smiley »

Coulda woulda shoulda...

the ABs had Nonu in the 12 jersey with SBW coming off the bench as impact player. Additionally, there was Ryan Crotty owning the midfield in his own right. You're toying with a fantasy suggesting BB could have been developed there within NZ's system and structure.
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LandOTurk
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by LandOTurk »

El Flash wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:51 am TJ Perenara was shocking last night but it still does not excuse Beauden Barretts lame performance running that backline.
4 of his first 5 passes went either to ground or to a player in a far worse position than himself. That's unforgivable for a player in almost his 100th Test.
It has been said before that Barrett is at his best when the game becomes fractured & that was not last night. With the Boks using the very effective umbrella defence he did not once chip over the back to at least have the Bok centres thinking. He looked rushed, insecure & in 2 minds most of the game.
Bring on Richie Mo'unga. A natural 5/8 in the Carter mould.
Never realised he was so close to 100 caps. Given Carter 'only' just got over the century mark but seemed to have been around much longer.
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mrbrownstone
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by mrbrownstone »

LandOTurk wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:09 am
El Flash wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:51 am TJ Perenara was shocking last night but it still does not excuse Beauden Barretts lame performance running that backline.
4 of his first 5 passes went either to ground or to a player in a far worse position than himself. That's unforgivable for a player in almost his 100th Test.
It has been said before that Barrett is at his best when the game becomes fractured & that was not last night. With the Boks using the very effective umbrella defence he did not once chip over the back to at least have the Bok centres thinking. He looked rushed, insecure & in 2 minds most of the game.
Bring on Richie Mo'unga. A natural 5/8 in the Carter mould.
Never realised he was so close to 100 caps. Given Carter 'only' just got over the century mark but seemed to have been around much longer.
A symptom of fewer injuries/more tests per year. Carter also spent far longer 'owning' the starting jersey which probably helps that perception too. DC played bugger all rugby in 13/14 too (8 tests total, only 2 in '14) + obviously his injury in 2011 which cost a few tests.

Carter played 13 seasons of test rugby (2003-15) for 112 tests, an average of 8.6 tests per year.

Beauden is in his 10th season ('12-present) for an average of 9.7 tests per year.

If you really want to break it down though, BB has only actually started 61 tests to Carters' 106.
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The Native
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by The Native »

jdogscoop wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:18 am
The Native wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 am
El Flash wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:51 am TJ Perenara was shocking last night but it still does not excuse Beauden Barretts lame performance running that backline.
4 of his first 5 passes went either to ground or to a player in a far worse position than himself. That's unforgivable for a player in almost his 100th Test.
It has been said before that Barrett is at his best when the game becomes fractured & that was not last night. With the Boks using the very effective umbrella defence he did not once chip over the back to at least have the Bok centres thinking. He looked rushed, insecure & in 2 minds most of the game.
Bring on Richie Mo'unga. A natural 5/8 in the Carter mould.
😂

You dumb f*ck.
I think El Flash actually raises some good points.
Of course you do.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by eldanielfire »

guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:36 am Coulda woulda shoulda...

the ABs had Nonu in the 12 jersey with SBW coming off the bench as impact player. Additionally, there was Ryan Crotty owning the midfield in his own right. You're toying with a fantasy suggesting BB could have been developed there within NZ's system and structure.
Beauden had Dan Carter in front of him until 2015, then became a first teamer after most of those left. he may not have had a great 2016 developing as a 12 but may well be a more effective now. His skill set and mentality IMO more suit 12, he ain't a 10 and he has limitations at 15.

And yes it's "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff, but isn't that partly the point of rugby discussions?
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eldanielfire
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by eldanielfire »

guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:36 am Coulda woulda shoulda...

the ABs had Nonu in the 12 jersey with SBW coming off the bench as impact player. Additionally, there was Ryan Crotty owning the midfield in his own right. You're toying with a fantasy suggesting BB could have been developed there within NZ's system and structure.
Beauden had Dan Carter in front of him until 2015, then became a first teamer after most of those left. he may not have had a great 2016 developing as a 12 but may well be a more effective now. His skill set and mentality IMO more suit 12, he ain't a 10 and he has limitations at 15.

And yes it's "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff, but isn't that partly the point of rugby discussions?
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by guy smiley »

Yeah... fair enough EDF. I get where you're coming from and there's a bit of logic in it. Carter played outside at 12 a little bit early on but the cries to move him to 10 where he belonged were strident straight away. There was a different aspect to the development of BB as an AB... it was almost as if a new hero had to be created and established. Don't forget, Aaron Cruden was Carter's successor and a damned good 10 in his own right. BB was hailed though, and still gets fawning from the local media.
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Flockwitt »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 am
guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:36 am Coulda woulda shoulda...

the ABs had Nonu in the 12 jersey with SBW coming off the bench as impact player. Additionally, there was Ryan Crotty owning the midfield in his own right. You're toying with a fantasy suggesting BB could have been developed there within NZ's system and structure.
Beauden had Dan Carter in front of him until 2015, then became a first teamer after most of those left. he may not have had a great 2016 developing as a 12 but may well be a more effective now. His skill set and mentality IMO more suit 12, he ain't a 10 and he has limitations at 15.

And yes it's "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff, but isn't that partly the point of rugby discussions?
Sorry but that's totally off the mark. BB really struggled with front on tackling early on. I mean it was the weakest aspect of his game. A 12 has to defend. BB would be picked out to be run over as soon as he got on the field. And even now he's barely competent. Did you see what Laumape did to him even as a mature player? The difference between him and Carter in that aspect was and still would be day and night. BB never was and never will be anything resembling a 12.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by eldanielfire »

Flockwitt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 am
guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:36 am Coulda woulda shoulda...

the ABs had Nonu in the 12 jersey with SBW coming off the bench as impact player. Additionally, there was Ryan Crotty owning the midfield in his own right. You're toying with a fantasy suggesting BB could have been developed there within NZ's system and structure.
Beauden had Dan Carter in front of him until 2015, then became a first teamer after most of those left. he may not have had a great 2016 developing as a 12 but may well be a more effective now. His skill set and mentality IMO more suit 12, he ain't a 10 and he has limitations at 15.

And yes it's "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff, but isn't that partly the point of rugby discussions?
Sorry but that's totally off the mark. BB really struggled with front on tackling early on. I mean it was the weakest aspect of his game. A 12 has to defend. BB would be picked out to be run over as soon as he got on the field. And even now he's barely competent. Did you see what Laumape did to him even as a mature player? The difference between him and Carter in that aspect was and still would be day and night. BB never was and never will be anything resembling a 12.
IMO he's more of a liability in tackling when he was played at 15 and 10.

A 12 must tackle but it's far, far easier at 12 then 15. And mistakes are less costly. I would say a 13 with good defense outside of him is essential.
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by not_english »

Weren't people raving about BB's performance a mere two tests ago?

He was good against the rush defence in the RWC game vs Sth Africa too.
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Flockwitt »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:53 am
Flockwitt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 am
guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:36 am Coulda woulda shoulda...

the ABs had Nonu in the 12 jersey with SBW coming off the bench as impact player. Additionally, there was Ryan Crotty owning the midfield in his own right. You're toying with a fantasy suggesting BB could have been developed there within NZ's system and structure.
Beauden had Dan Carter in front of him until 2015, then became a first teamer after most of those left. he may not have had a great 2016 developing as a 12 but may well be a more effective now. His skill set and mentality IMO more suit 12, he ain't a 10 and he has limitations at 15.

And yes it's "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff, but isn't that partly the point of rugby discussions?
Sorry but that's totally off the mark. BB really struggled with front on tackling early on. I mean it was the weakest aspect of his game. A 12 has to defend. BB would be picked out to be run over as soon as he got on the field. And even now he's barely competent. Did you see what Laumape did to him even as a mature player? The difference between him and Carter in that aspect was and still would be day and night. BB never was and never will be anything resembling a 12.
IMO he's more of a liability in tackling when he was played at 15 and 10.

A 12 must tackle but it's far, far easier at 12 then 15. And mistakes are less costly. I would say a 13 with good defense outside of him is essential.
Allow me to assure you that tackling as a 15 is much much easier than tackling as a 12. At 12 you either smash or are smashed and if you don't have the physical attributes you're dead meat. At 15 you can use your fast footwork and line people up, tackle low or tackle high as you choose. This should be a non-discussion. BB would be every opposition's dream come true if anyone was silly enough to play him at 12.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by eldanielfire »

Flockwitt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:17 am
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:53 am
Flockwitt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 am
guy smiley wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:36 am Coulda woulda shoulda...

the ABs had Nonu in the 12 jersey with SBW coming off the bench as impact player. Additionally, there was Ryan Crotty owning the midfield in his own right. You're toying with a fantasy suggesting BB could have been developed there within NZ's system and structure.
Beauden had Dan Carter in front of him until 2015, then became a first teamer after most of those left. he may not have had a great 2016 developing as a 12 but may well be a more effective now. His skill set and mentality IMO more suit 12, he ain't a 10 and he has limitations at 15.

And yes it's "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff, but isn't that partly the point of rugby discussions?
Sorry but that's totally off the mark. BB really struggled with front on tackling early on. I mean it was the weakest aspect of his game. A 12 has to defend. BB would be picked out to be run over as soon as he got on the field. And even now he's barely competent. Did you see what Laumape did to him even as a mature player? The difference between him and Carter in that aspect was and still would be day and night. BB never was and never will be anything resembling a 12.
IMO he's more of a liability in tackling when he was played at 15 and 10.

A 12 must tackle but it's far, far easier at 12 then 15. And mistakes are less costly. I would say a 13 with good defense outside of him is essential.
Allow me to assure you that tackling as a 15 is much much easier than tackling as a 12. At 12 you either smash or are smashed and if you don't have the physical attributes you're dead meat. At 15 you can use your fast footwork and line people up, tackle low or tackle high as you choose. This should be a non-discussion. BB would be every opposition's dream come true if anyone was silly enough to play him at 12.
I don't recall Beauden's fast footwork meaning it was essentially successful at tackling at 15. AT 15 it is far more essential that you make the tackle, especially as it will be more frequently punished as it's where there is lots of space around you and it's much worse consequences for not doing so.
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Flockwitt
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Flockwitt »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:24 am
Flockwitt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:17 am
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:53 am
Flockwitt wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 am

Beauden had Dan Carter in front of him until 2015, then became a first teamer after most of those left. he may not have had a great 2016 developing as a 12 but may well be a more effective now. His skill set and mentality IMO more suit 12, he ain't a 10 and he has limitations at 15.

And yes it's "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff, but isn't that partly the point of rugby discussions?
Sorry but that's totally off the mark. BB really struggled with front on tackling early on. I mean it was the weakest aspect of his game. A 12 has to defend. BB would be picked out to be run over as soon as he got on the field. And even now he's barely competent. Did you see what Laumape did to him even as a mature player? The difference between him and Carter in that aspect was and still would be day and night. BB never was and never will be anything resembling a 12.
IMO he's more of a liability in tackling when he was played at 15 and 10.

A 12 must tackle but it's far, far easier at 12 then 15. And mistakes are less costly. I would say a 13 with good defense outside of him is essential.
Allow me to assure you that tackling as a 15 is much much easier than tackling as a 12. At 12 you either smash or are smashed and if you don't have the physical attributes you're dead meat. At 15 you can use your fast footwork and line people up, tackle low or tackle high as you choose. This should be a non-discussion. BB would be every opposition's dream come true if anyone was silly enough to play him at 12.
I don't recall Beauden's fast footwork meaning it was essentially successful at tackling at 15. AT 15 it is far more essential that you make the tackle, especially as it will be more frequently punished as it's where there is lots of space around you and it's much worse consequences for not doing so.
Ummm... just give up will you please. You clearly have never played the positions.
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Toro
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Re: Bye bye Beauden

Post by Toro »

Beaudie needed to work the inside ball more on the weekend. Canes have a simple move with a 1-2 cut and inside ball to Jordie, surprised this was never used on Saturday, JB loves hovering around there. Against the Boks you need the blindside winger threatening that line all the time, Aussies did it well against us too, we seem to be obsessed with throwing it to the midfield no matter what and on Saturday that ball usually came with a flying defender.

Agree with poor use of the chip kick too.

Boks fly up in the midfield but have wingers with speed to hang back but easily pick off an intercept if you try and float it over. Inside 12 is where you must threaten constantly.
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