Planet Rugby Forum

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:58 am

backrow wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:55 am

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:49 am

Hoof wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:44 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:27 am I think we should take in a lot more.

What does Ireland do with regards taking in refugees? Does it take in the same percentage as other EU 'frontier countries' or 'by virtue of geography' does it just look on from the sidelines and 'tut tut' the British?

Duff is on his own here tbf. Not much appetite here for taking in refugees, even more particularly in relation to low skilled economic migrants. Our geography and lack of direct flights usually dissuades them from coming here. I think it is strange though that so many would want to go to the UK over Ireland as they'd probably be financially better off coming here. I can only assume it's a family thing?

FWIW, I think the borders of southern European countries should be reinforced and no-one let in without proper paperwork. The NGO vessels in the Med are as guilty of trafficking as the smugglers operating out of North Africa.

Several on this thread (not just Irish) seem to think geographic location is irrelevant , and the direct flights thing isn’t really an issue for those people willing to pay a trafficker for a dinghy spot.
Genuine economic migrants would not really be affected by direct flights, and there should always be a method to welcome migrants of appropriate skill set and needs.

I completely agree with your last paragraph , even when uk was in the Eu - I don’t personally think this topic is especially relevant or affected by brexit

The crazy thing is that these guys are making their way through safe, developed countries and will then pay a substantial sum to risk their lives to try and get to the UK - the message has to get out from the UK government that coming to Britain illegally will result in immediate deportation.

Now on this we can agree - tbf any developed country should do this, uk, Eu, doesn’t matter.

A whole subject not even touched upon is a root cause , where Uk and other countries are now paying for their past benelovent foreign policy eg Iraqis who were safe when saddam ruled with an iron fist, now don’t feel safe at home so want to go to their cousins in Leeds. On this issue, then the UK absolutely is one of the main causes and I completely nod in agreement that Blair’s illegal wars and the Brits were bad, and Ireland’s involvement if there was one was pretty small.

Maybe we should ship them all to the USA ?!

danny_fitz wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:07 pm

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:55 am

mdaclarke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:53 am

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:49 am

Hoof wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:44 am

What does Ireland do with regards taking in refugees? Does it take in the same percentage as other EU 'frontier countries' or 'by virtue of geography' does it just look on from the sidelines and 'tut tut' the British?

Duff is on his own here tbf. Not much appetite here for taking in refugees, even more particularly in relation to low skilled economic migrants. Our geography and lack of direct flights usually dissuades them from coming here. I think it is strange though that so many would want to go to the UK over Ireland as they'd probably be financially better off coming here. I can only assume it's a family thing?

FWIW, I think the borders of southern European countries should be reinforced and no-one let in without proper paperwork. The NGO vessels in the Med are as guilty of trafficking as the smugglers operating out of North Africa.

Agree with this 100% also if the migrants come to Ireland I would be willing to be folding money that the vast majority would end up in London quicker than you can say "Common Travel Area"

Perhaps. That is the main crux of the issue though - why do they all want to get to the UK?

Chap on the radio this morning was basically stating that the lack of ID cards and the black market cash in hand economy allows migrants to pretty much get work straight away while staying beneath the radar so to speak. Even if they do get picked up there are several years worth of asylum claims and appeals with a very low risk of deportation at the end of it.

Hmm, so unless we go full V for vendetta with ID cards, ban cash, and an entire new force of Judge Dredd style enforcers for prompt action, then Uk will always be seen as a soft touch ?

The UK is a soft touch. And they're a soft touch despite many years of a Tory government that the Left in the UK think are akin to Nazis.

It demonstrates how ridiculous the Left are in the UK more than anything else. We need to completely recentre where politics is in the UK nowadays compared to other Western countries. Where migrants want to reach is a fairly good indicator.

Copy the Aussies. If you come via illegal means you are automatically refused asylum and stuck on the first transport to Naru.

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:32 pm Copy the Aussies. If you come via illegal means you are automatically refused asylum and stuck on the first transport to Naru.

With the greatest respect, if a Syrian refugee reached Western Australia in a dinghy, the Aussies should stick him in their America's Cup team

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:32 pm Copy the Aussies. If you come via illegal means you are automatically refused asylum and stuck on the first transport to Naru.

We can pay Aus to take some of ours in Naru too

Granted Micronesia has quite a number of islands, still when the Aussies have only deported in the low thousands to Nauru it's really no answer to returning the hundreds of thousands into the millions attempting to migrate to Europe. We're not going to get a deal to send millions anywhere, and who would pay to maintain such a deal anyway?

If you actually want to take a stand against such migration it needs to start with pretty much scrapping the notion of asylum. Such you can't say you're not being treated unfairly if you're attempting to leave/flee Syria, Iran, Iraq, as there are clearly millions of you being treated equally if equal abhorrently, so the only solution available to you is go home and fix your country or die. You would maintain asylum, but only for isolated example of a university professor who says something their home state doesn't like which places their family at a more distinct risk than the normal tramping of human rights. That would enable a return of people to places such as Syria which presently isn't available

And even then we're only just starting to see the impact of climate change on migration

piquant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 pm
And even then we're only just starting to see the impact of climate change on migration

No problem, the channel will be wider

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:58 pm

piquant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 pm
And even then we're only just starting to see the impact of climate change on migration

No problem, the channel will be wider

Yeah, but it'll also be warmer

Keith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:58 pm

piquant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 pm
And even then we're only just starting to see the impact of climate change on migration

No problem, the channel will be wider

Yeah, but it'll also be warmer

More sharks

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

Keith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:58 pm

piquant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 pm
And even then we're only just starting to see the impact of climate change on migration

No problem, the channel will be wider

Yeah, but it'll also be warmer

More sharks

Fewer Jellyfish

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:55 am

mdaclarke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:53 am

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:49 am

Hoof wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:44 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:27 am I think we should take in a lot more.

What does Ireland do with regards taking in refugees? Does it take in the same percentage as other EU 'frontier countries' or 'by virtue of geography' does it just look on from the sidelines and 'tut tut' the British?

Duff is on his own here tbf. Not much appetite here for taking in refugees, even more particularly in relation to low skilled economic migrants. Our geography and lack of direct flights usually dissuades them from coming here. I think it is strange though that so many would want to go to the UK over Ireland as they'd probably be financially better off coming here. I can only assume it's a family thing?

FWIW, I think the borders of southern European countries should be reinforced and no-one let in without proper paperwork. The NGO vessels in the Med are as guilty of trafficking as the smugglers operating out of North Africa.

Agree with this 100% also if the migrants come to Ireland I would be willing to be folding money that the vast majority would end up in London quicker than you can say "Common Travel Area"

Perhaps. That is the main crux of the issue though - why do they all want to get to the UK?

Because we're great lads altogether?

Despite some of the whinging- the U.K. is a welcoming and diverse country, you get treated better than France or Spain for example- and as stated we have a huge Labour black market.

Keith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:07 pm

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

Keith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:58 pm

piquant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 pm
And even then we're only just starting to see the impact of climate change on migration

No problem, the channel will be wider

Yeah, but it'll also be warmer

More sharks

Fewer Jellyfish

The French will have eaten them all by then anyway

Illegally fishing in our waters no doubt

Keith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:07 pm

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

Keith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm

AnkleTap wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:58 pm

piquant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 pm
And even then we're only just starting to see the impact of climate change on migration

No problem, the channel will be wider

Yeah, but it'll also be warmer

More sharks

Fewer Jellyfish

More coiled out turds

bimboman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:43 am

piquant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:42 am

Sawtooth the Beaver wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:56 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:35 pm

clementinfrance wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:58 pm

...as does the UK govt for all but shutting down every safe route for migrants into the UK.

Migrants are welcomed. Asylum seekers are supposed to claim it in the first country they reach. These are failed asylum seekers in the EU who are trying to get into the uk illegally to try again.

France is no better than belorussie.

Factually incorrect.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/refuge ... e-country/

Or a failure to consider this is another benefit of Brexit.

Very odd.

Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit but reasonably easy to identify by the well informed.

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:11 pm

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:55 am

mdaclarke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:53 am

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:49 am

Hoof wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:44 am

What does Ireland do with regards taking in refugees? Does it take in the same percentage as other EU 'frontier countries' or 'by virtue of geography' does it just look on from the sidelines and 'tut tut' the British?

Duff is on his own here tbf. Not much appetite here for taking in refugees, even more particularly in relation to low skilled economic migrants. Our geography and lack of direct flights usually dissuades them from coming here. I think it is strange though that so many would want to go to the UK over Ireland as they'd probably be financially better off coming here. I can only assume it's a family thing?

FWIW, I think the borders of southern European countries should be reinforced and no-one let in without proper paperwork. The NGO vessels in the Med are as guilty of trafficking as the smugglers operating out of North Africa.

Agree with this 100% also if the migrants come to Ireland I would be willing to be folding money that the vast majority would end up in London quicker than you can say "Common Travel Area"

Perhaps. That is the main crux of the issue though - why do they all want to get to the UK?

Because we're great lads altogether?

Despite some of the whinging- the U.K. is a welcoming and diverse country, you get treated better than France or Spain for example- and as stated we have a huge Labour black market.

I think there is a lot of truth in this.
There are also big black market economies in many countries, Spain in particular.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:07 pm

Benthos wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:27 am Right, this isn’t a Brexit rant - I said the same when we were in...

Why can’t the EU:
- get all member heads together
- agree a fund/secretariat which, to take the pressure off Greece, Italy and (to a lesser extent) Spain, handles all border issues at the southern border, including patrolling the Med and running transit camps
- get each member country to agree to X refugees p.a.
- process the refugees crossing the Med, allocating and transporting them as per the above agree quotas
- reconvene HOGs when quotas filled, or (last resort) send the surplus back
Isn’t that what a union of countries should be doing..?

*ducks*

PS the Brits should fund and contribute to the above process, Brexit or no Brexit

I can't disagree with such a system, pending details of course. In a similar way European countries could and should invest in facilities in the borders outside of Europe and close by, having them processed there but with investment in decent accommodation. In this day and age with all the information available there is little reason why most applications can't be determined as genuine or not. Why do we act as if we don't have tons of information about events around the world at the touch of a button.

But the fact is to much claims of refugees isn't about reaching a safe country, they want to reach a particular destination for economic benefits. Traffickers take advantage of this.

This is why they risk the channel rather than taking a ferry. If you arrive in the UK without a passport, all of that information is no longer 'at the touch of a button'.

RTE reporting on it there on the lunch time news.

Tony Connolly just said France expelled 20,000 asylum seekers this year while the UK only expelled 1/4 of that.

That's a push and pull factor for illegal migrants going to UK right there. They know they have a better chance of being allowed to stay due to lengthy asylum process which can take years.

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:15 pm RTE reporting on it there on the lunch time news.

Tony Connolly just said France expelled 20,000 asylum seekers this year while the UK only expelled 1/4 of that.

That's a push and pull factor for illegal migrants going to UK right there. They know they have a better chance of being allowed to stay due to lengthy asylum process which can take years.

It's not, France probably gets 4 times as many applications as the UK.

I have only had time to skim the thread so at least some of this has been covered. But we recently had an old chum of my wife's stay who is professionally involved in this.

There are actually relatively few migrants trying to get into the UK compared to Europe as a whole. There were fewer than half the number of asylum claims in the UK compared to France last year, and about a third of the German number. There are just a lot of them in general.

The UK benefit system for migrants is actually slightly less generous than the French, and they can start work (officially) in France earlier than in the UK. But it is far, far easier to get a black market job in the UK. So whilst legal benefits may not be so great, illegal ones can be significantly better in the UK and outweigh the legal.

The French do in fact spend a lot trying to stop crossings and do stop a decent number. Having said that, they refuse to enter joint operations between the French Navy etc and the UK equivalents which would be far more efficient for both. Allegedly this is due to the current diplomatic issues between the UK and France due to which the French Govt does not want to be seen playing nicely with the British over what many in France see as a UK problem.

The UK asylum system is a joke. It takes years to process and people are rarely returned. Some churches and civil rights organisations have a lot to answer for as they seem to see it as their duty to support the migrants at all costs. There is in effect an industry devoted to supporting migrants to stay in the UK. Some of it is entirely cynical, others see it as a moral imperative.

The Govt is between a rock and a hard place. The system is clearly being gamed, but if they tighten up the law and genuine asylum seeker are sent back and suffer harm, all hell will break loose. And you can bet your life other political parties would make hay over the 'heartless Tories' (not that the Tories would be any better in the reverse scenario).

For years we didn't allow asylum seekers to work at all and due to the slowness of our system ( probably slower than the UK system) the asylum seekers would go to the UK via Northern Ireland to work in the black market.

There was a court case brought up 3-4 years ago where a judge ruled the banning of asylum seekers from working unconstitutional . So now they can't work for 9 months but if asylum case isn't dealt with in that time, they are allowed access labour market by aplying for licence to irish immigration.

What horrifies me is how they're happy to work in a black market economy where they have no protection, are vulnerable to exploitation by criminals and thugs and when they get sick have no national insurance number so they don't even get the most basic health needs.

How is this fixed? I really don't know . No government can properly deal with this. It's impossible

Hoof wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:44 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:27 am I think we should take in a lot more.

What does Ireland do with regards taking in refugees? Does it take in the same percentage as other EU 'frontier countries' or 'by virtue of geography' does it just look on from the sidelines and 'tut tut' the British?

The first thing we do every morning over Cornflakes and a brief perusal of An Phoblacht is to 'tut-tut' you lot.
However, by 'virtue of geography' our frontiers are quite wet from all sides and you don't get many small boats braving the Celtic/Irish sea nor indeed the North Atlantic in November but thanks for your interest.

The Sun God wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:06 pm

Hoof wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:44 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:27 am I think we should take in a lot more.

What does Ireland do with regards taking in refugees? Does it take in the same percentage as other EU 'frontier countries' or 'by virtue of geography' does it just look on from the sidelines and 'tut tut' the British?

The first thing we do every morning over Cornflakes and a brief perusal of An Phoblacht is to 'tut-tut' you lot.
However, by 'virtue of geography' our frontiers are quite wet from all sides and you don't get many small boats braving the Celtic/Irish sea nor indeed the North Atlantic in November but thanks for your interest.

We set up a few "Receiver Camps" when Iceland was doing well in the football but now they're shit we told them to bollocks off back to their cousin-infested no-rugby expensive-booze utopia.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

Quality tut-tutting

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

Well in the shortest of terms well said, in the bigger picture the question to ask is “how many” and unless that’s everyone “who” should we allow.

Mrs Bimbo heading down to Dover now I presume ?

backrow wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:59 pm Mrs Bimbo heading down to Dover now I presume ?

Euphemism?

Keith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:01 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:59 pm Mrs Bimbo heading down to Dover now I presume ?

Euphemism?

… she’s used to handling lots of dead seamen

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

Whilst it's all very sad, an armed bank robber is 'only trying to make it better for himself and his family' too.
There are legal ways to enter and claim asylum, but these boat people have chosen to risk the channel to try and enter illegally.

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

“...normal people like...”

He’s a scruffy street drinker.

I believe the correct term is "Irish", DD

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:06 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

Whilst it's all very sad, an armed bank robber is 'only trying to make it better for himself and his family' too.
There are legal ways to enter and claim asylum, but these boat people have chosen to risk the channel to try and enter illegally.

A lot manage to source a tourist visa , get into the country then tear up documents before going through immigration. That's one way they get into the asylum system. That's how they get into our one here in Ireland.

I think what happens with these asylum seekers using rafts across the channel is they go to a smuggler who get them in this way and it makes them (the smugglers) less traceable.

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:06 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

Whilst it's all very sad, an armed bank robber is 'only trying to make it better for himself and his family' too.
There are legal ways to enter and claim asylum, but these boat people have chosen to risk the channel to try and enter illegally.

What the fudge is wrong with you? Comparing them to armed bank robbers. Are you f**king joking. Take a long hard look at yourself.

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:43 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

“...normal people like...”

He’s a scruffy street drinker.

He’s from a political dynasty family actually, went to Rock

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:53 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:43 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

“...normal people like...”

He’s a scruffy street drinker.

He’s from a political dynasty family actually, went to Rock

The black sheep?

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:51 pm

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:06 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

Whilst it's all very sad, an armed bank robber is 'only trying to make it better for himself and his family' too.
There are legal ways to enter and claim asylum, but these boat people have chosen to risk the channel to try and enter illegally.

What the fudge is wrong with you? Comparing them to armed bank robbers. Are you f**king joking. Take a long hard look at yourself.

Who's comparing them to armed bank robbers, you flapping tit.
Both can be explained using this blokes reasoning.

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:07 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:53 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:43 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:50 pm https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWtBswQDsEI/

Well said

“...normal people like...”

He’s a scruffy street drinker.

He’s from a political dynasty family actually, went to Rock

The black sheep?

He was but his brother has managed to sink even lower. He’s good value, fairly unhinged, occasionally touches on some gold. His tv programme The Savage Eye was f**king quality, no idea how he got RTE to show it:

https://youtu.be/h8fITzlPgA0

And quite possibly the greatest sketch ever broadcast on Irish tv

https://youtu.be/Qi_yiExToQo