Planet Rugby Forum

Edinburgh01 wrote: No quite. British dressage is Hester and the Bechtolsheimer family. The Bechtolsheimer family gave Hester his first job at a decent yard and it was on their horses that he first rose to prominence. Without the Bechtolsheimer family money, drive and ambition, British dressage would be nowhere.

Very few of the top horses are owned by the riders. Hester does not own Dujardin's Valegro, he only has a half share. Uthopia, the horse Hester rode is also owned by one of the unsung army of wealthy owners who pour massive amounts into owning the horses the riders rely on. At the top level, horses ridden by their owners are rare and only really happen when the rider is the grand daughter of either a German billionaire or the Queen. Even Ben Maher who rode a horse he bred himself, only owns a share in the horse.

Britain has always had the riders, but we've fallen way, way behind in breeding and developing horses. We were frankly lucky that we kept hold of the horses for these games. Had it not been a home games, several of our top horses would probably have been sold. As it was, owners kept them, and in some cases bought new horses (Scott Brash's horse was only bought for him to ride at the end of last year). We can't rely on that in the future, though winning golds this time may well help as owners want to be associated with success. But with the best German dressage horse (who wasn't at the Games), selling for £10m, with the Saudis supposedly putting £40m into their showjumping team, more than ever money talks.

As for the bit about buying horses cheap, developing them and selling them on, that is what all the good riders do.

Dumbledore wrote:

Sefton wrote: You'd never catch us Brits bitching about a disqualification.

Bookmarked.

SamShark wrote:That judge hates Pendleton

lamby wrote:where's that UCI official from? that's twice now!

Fat Albert wrote:French to get their revenge... Cnuts

dantedelew wrote:Fat arsed bully

Leffe wrote:fudge sake, an elbow in your side off a bend at full bore and cited for you trouble...

warriors wrote:Wtf? Meares almost smashed Pendleton off the track. What's she supposed to do? Fall off?

Bill wrote:If that had been the other way round no way would they have called it

Pure jealously

croyals wrote:Just king hit the Aussie

Bill wrote:same French judges as before too?

Gospel wrote:Mears charged down the track and elbowed Vicky off ... but Vicky gets DQ'd as she over corrects. What a farce. That was six of one half a dozen of another.

warriors wrote:With any luck Meares will fall off

warriors wrote:Piss off you cheating Aussie twat.

Gospel wrote:Pendleton lost patience with that. Clearly her head wasn't in it after the ridiculous DQ. Pile of shite. Congrat Mears for taking her opportunity.

warriors wrote:Obviously I don't want her paralyzed or killed but wheelchair bound for life would've been appropriate.

warriors wrote: Cheats should never prosper and I'm very bitter right now after that shit call.

Bill wrote:robbed by french judge - queen vics equilibrium was blown

Dumbledore wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:

Sefton wrote: You'd never catch us Brits bitching about a disqualification.

Bookmarked.

SamShark wrote:That judge hates Pendleton

lamby wrote:where's that UCI official from? that's twice now!

Fat Albert wrote:French to get their revenge... Cnuts

dantedelew wrote:Fat arsed bully

Leffe wrote:fudge sake, an elbow in your side off a bend at full bore and cited for you trouble...

warriors wrote:Wtf? Meares almost smashed Pendleton off the track. What's she supposed to do? Fall off?

Bill wrote:If that had been the other way round no way would they have called it

Pure jealously

croyals wrote:Just king hit the Aussie

Bill wrote:same French judges as before too?

Gospel wrote:Mears charged down the track and elbowed Vicky off ... but Vicky gets DQ'd as she over corrects. What a farce. That was six of one half a dozen of another.

warriors wrote:With any luck Meares will fall off

warriors wrote:Piss off you cheating Aussie twat.

Gospel wrote:Pendleton lost patience with that. Clearly her head wasn't in it after the ridiculous DQ. Pile of shite. Congrat Mears for taking her opportunity.

warriors wrote:Obviously I don't want her paralyzed or killed but wheelchair bound for life would've been appropriate.

warriors wrote: Cheats should never prosper and I'm very bitter right now after that shit call.

Bill wrote:robbed by french judge - queen vics equilibrium was blown

[/precious]

Dumbledore wrote: More me being precious than anyone else really.

eldanielfire wrote:Interesting article form New Statesman (vey lefty mag for those not in the know) about how the dancing horses aren't as posh as we think. Carl Hester who won gold today, isn't at all posh, he has no title or money, he just loves the event and has to work hard to have good horses. In fact Hester has to pull in favours, work amazingly hard and just do amazing things to ensure overseas teams doesn't just but out the horses he works so hard to get to compete for Team GB.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/lifes ... se-dancing

Thanks to the long list of blue-blooded equestrians, from Zara Philips to Mitt Romney’s wife, it is easy to assume that dressage is a sport for the elite. And to joke about it. The jokes I can’t argue with. Ann Romney’s horse really did do a more impressive job than Mitt last week. But the idea that riding is only for the POSH (Privileged Or Super-rich Horse-owners) is not just misleading – it’s totally back to front.

On the eve of Britain’s first ever dressage medal, and a gold one at that, there are some important reasons why every sports hack, politician, and parent – anyone in a position of responsibility or care – should forget the stereotype and take a dressage lesson or two. Never mind the Olympics, it should be on the National Curriculum.

OK, maybe ponies in the PE department isn’t that realistic. And yes, having some talent and a family able to buy a multi million pound animal is one way of reaching the top. But while money might win you a medal, it won’t win you the respect of the sport. A real master of the horse is someone who can produce their own world-beater, not just once, but over and over again.

Let me introduce you to Carl Hester – a man without title or money – whom the media has consequently and unfairly sidelined. Carl was born on the tiny, car-less, Channel Island of Sark. As a schoolboy he earned pocket money by driving carriage horses for tourists, then took his first real job, aged 19, at a riding centre for the disabled. He didn’t own a horse until he was 20 but found work as an apprentice at a top dressage yard. By working until 9.30pm every night, he became the youngest British rider ever to compete in an Olympic games. He now makes a living training riders and producing and selling horses.

2012 is Carl’s fourth Olympics – and he nearly didn’t make it. Like football teams, many top riders rely on wealthy benefactors to lend them their rides; at the beginning of the year Carl had to call on every contact he had to make sure his multi-million pound horse, Uthopia, wasn’t sold to the Swedish team. But sweeter than his own success in this year’s contest (he is currently in fifth place), is the fact that he does own Valegro, the horse ridden by his team-mate and apprentice Charlotte Du Jardin, who has just smashed the Olympic record with a Grand Prix score of 83.66 per cent.

This year Carl is the kingmaker – in the most egalitarian and selfless of senses. His story shows that, more then any other sport, dressage is about producing something. Carl advises young riders to make their own road to success by making their own horses; buying them young and cheap, training them and selling them and buying more until they work their way up to where they want to be. This is tough advice. Seriously tough. It’s a life work – but one that produces much more than top horses and Olympic gold.

In the past the purpose of this "product" was military. When asked why Germany is so dominant in dressage one German trainer told me:


"Because we had to defend ourselves! We had to defend ourselves from the French! From the Poles! From the Austrians!"

A good point, even if it doesn’t quite tally with our version of history. In Britain, pit ponies were a central part of the industrial revolution – and its values of hard-work, aspiration, and communal effort – that Danny Boyle rightly loves to celebrate.

But even more than this, learning how to listen is the real gold mined through working with horses. Watch any test in tomorrow’s team final and you’ll see each horse’s ears quivering back and forth as they strain to understand their rider’s silent commands. Horses aren’t born "difficult" or "headstrong". Like people, they are made that way when they’re misunderstood (an easy thing to do when you don’t share a first language).

If we really want to learn how to listen we should start paying more attention to the four-legged silent ones. They have a lot to tell us about how our own modern "Uthopia" might be achieved. For some this may be producing their own Olympic horse, or living on an island without cars. For others it may be a society in which politicians listen to their public, teachers to their pupils, and parents to their children. I’d settle for feeling the soft breath of a happy horse on the back of my hand. Whatever your utopia, whisper it; ‘"dressage is for everyone".

After reading that I have more respect for Carl Heston and his Olympic Gold is certainluy f**king well earned. Apparently the girls he won it with just came for him for advice because he gives it out and his advice grew into their Olympic Gold medal team. Respect to that man


Or to put it another way, we now get the gold because our horses aren't all controlled by Toff fox hunting obsessed inbreds.

eldanielfire wrote:

Edinburgh01 wrote: No quite. British dressage is Hester and the Bechtolsheimer family. The Bechtolsheimer family gave Hester his first job at a decent yard and it was on their horses that he first rose to prominence. Without the Bechtolsheimer family money, drive and ambition, British dressage would be nowhere.

Very few of the top horses are owned by the riders. Hester does not own Dujardin's Valegro, he only has a half share. Uthopia, the horse Hester rode is also owned by one of the unsung army of wealthy owners who pour massive amounts into owning the horses the riders rely on. At the top level, horses ridden by their owners are rare and only really happen when the rider is the grand daughter of either a German billionaire or the Queen. Even Ben Maher who rode a horse he bred himself, only owns a share in the horse.

Britain has always had the riders, but we've fallen way, way behind in breeding and developing horses. We were frankly lucky that we kept hold of the horses for these games. Had it not been a home games, several of our top horses would probably have been sold. As it was, owners kept them, and in some cases bought new horses (Scott Brash's horse was only bought for him to ride at the end of last year). We can't rely on that in the future, though winning golds this time may well help as owners want to be associated with success. But with the best German dressage horse (who wasn't at the Games), selling for £10m, with the Saudis supposedly putting £40m into their showjumping team, more than ever money talks.

As for the bit about buying horses cheap, developing them and selling them on, that is what all the good riders do.

Isn't that last bit exactly what the article was saying about why the sport has a wider and more inclusive appeal then it's sterotype?

I'm not saying it's not an expensive sport, just it's very capable for a person with a love of the sport and no money to make it. I'm not saying it's common or easy but this Hester bloke has obviously done it and wants others to do so as well.

2 of the 3 Dressage gold medalists are from non-money backgrounds. I've laid no claims otherwise nor indicted they own the horses. That's a bit of a strawman criticism. The article makes it clear Hester had to pull in favours to keep the horses for the Olympics and judging from his interview with the BBC, he clearly just wants to use this success to grow the sport and spread the word outside the rich sterotype of the sport to anybody who might be inspired by these games. Good man him, f**king deserves that gold as by all accounst he does a lot of good for the sport and for people who enter the sport and aren't moneyed.

Dumbledore wrote: More me being precious than anyone else really.

dantedelew wrote:

Dumbledore wrote: More me being precious than anyone else really.

Nice one Dumbers. While there was disappointment and controversy about the first race in the final, that was not the case for the 2nd. Meares had Pendleton on toast, well beaten. She does still have a fat arse though.

Sefton wrote:

warriors wrote:That's pretty precious

Not really, it's been a running joke since Dumbles said that US Postal was as clean as Shane Warne.

merry! wrote:our gabby showing the nation that yorkshire is currently in 11th place in the medals table.

good lass.


saint & eldan: she's a leeds girl.

DR DRE wrote:

merry! wrote:our gabby showing the nation that yorkshire is currently in 11th place in the medals table.

good lass.


saint & eldan: she's a leeds girl.

Her farther was Wales Captain and coach. He nearly took us to USA 94, a missed penalty away.

She also represented Wales as a gymnast in the commonwealth games (finishing 8th), she has since been a bit of a turncoat.

Sefton wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:

Sefton wrote:

warriors wrote:That's pretty precious

Not really, it's been a running joke since Dumbles said that US Postal was as clean as Shane Warne.

You almost typed UK Postal there didn't you?

fudge your own face, warriors. You acted the wit kant, I'm having a laugh about something that's been running for a month or so now.

Only when I think of Porte and Rogers.

But then I remember they're in an English team and the chaps wouldn't let those colonial types revert to type.

Lorthern Nights wrote:The one thing that really strikes me is how down to earth and generally top people these stars are, the Brownlee boys were on the radio this morning and just sounded top lads.

Their training schedule that they touched on

They also have a younger brother... he is apparently into his rugby though and deemed a bit too lazy for the triathalons

merry! wrote: i can understand her having allegiance to the land of her fathers when young, then she grew up and realised where she was from.

korben_dallas wrote:

merry! wrote: i can understand her having allegiance to the land of her fathers when young, then she grew up and realised where she was from.

You Leeds twats are almost as bad as the Cornish twats and the Geordies

Why you feel the need to compartmentalise England even further into these meaningless regions makes me laugh.

Jeff the Bear wrote:Here we go, glorious loss in the Kayak coming up.

Jeff the Bear wrote:Here we go, glorious loss in the Kayak coming up.

Lorthern Nights wrote:Was that lad a medal hopeful? He came last from what i could see

Jeff the Bear wrote:

Lorthern Nights wrote:Was that lad a medal hopeful? He came last from what i could see

Qualified last, so no, he was not expected to challenge.

Lorthern Nights wrote:Was that lad a medal hopeful? He came last from what i could see

Lorthern Nights wrote:

Jeff the Bear wrote:

Lorthern Nights wrote:Was that lad a medal hopeful? He came last from what i could see

Qualified last, so no, he was not expected to challenge.

Ah ok. We do have a paddler that is defending his title dont we?

korben_dallas wrote:

merry! wrote: i can understand her having allegiance to the land of her fathers when young, then she grew up and realised where she was from.

You Leeds twats are almost as bad as the Cornish twats and the Geordies

Why you feel the need to compartmentalise England even further into these meaningless regions makes me laugh.

fatman wrote:the canoeing is a bit dull, is there anything else on?

fatman wrote:the canoeing is a bit dull, is there anything else on?