Glorious examples of the calibre of the Irish Judiciary

[Duff Paddy]

Hard to know what will happen. Any new rules would need to be robust enough to stand up to challenge.

The judges have to start taking responsibility for the disproportionate awards they are handing out.

[danthefan]

A 2018 report by the Personal Injuries Commission found the average amount paid out in Ireland for whiplash injuries was 4.4 times higher than in England and Wales.

What can you even say.

[Duff Paddy]

It’s the insurance companies etc

[nardol]

Hard to know what will happen. Any new rules would need to be robust enough to stand up to challenge.

Golf gate is the best thing to 'ever' happen to Ireland.

Not because it really mattered, that there was anything wrong, or anything untoward at all happened - it was all fine and nothing wrong with it to be honest..

It's because finally the Marie-Antoinette of Irish life, the judiciary, felt the red hot poker coming for their jacksies. Keep acting like dictators ignoring the political, legislative and public outrage and you can get one right up your hole too!

Once accountability was added to the list of concerns for these fckers they moved - it was only when they for the first time ever had accountability though....

[anonymous_joe]

Hard to know what will happen. Any new rules would need to be robust enough to stand up to challenge.

Golf gate is the best thing to 'ever' happen to Ireland.

Not because it really mattered, that there was anything wrong, or anything untoward at all happened - it was all fine and nothing wrong with it to be honest..

It's because finally the Marie-Antoinette of Irish life, the judiciary, felt the red hot poker coming for their jacksies. Keep acting like dictators ignoring the political, legislative and public outrage and you can get one right up your hole too!

Once accountability was added to the list of concerns for these fckers they moved - it was only when they for the first time ever had accountability though....

Nardol, you really know nothing about Irish life.

[anonymous_joe]

A 2018 report by the Personal Injuries Commission found the average amount paid out in Ireland for whiplash injuries was 4.4 times higher than in England and Wales.

What can you even say.

Bit misleading as the Tories artificially lowered compensation for whiplash only.

[Duff Paddy]

A 2018 report by the Personal Injuries Commission found the average amount paid out in Ireland for whiplash injuries was 4.4 times higher than in England and Wales.

What can you even say.

Bit misleading as the Tories artificially lowered compensation for whiplash only.

So it’s not misleading at all in other words

[nardol]

Hard to know what will happen. Any new rules would need to be robust enough to stand up to challenge.

Golf gate is the best thing to 'ever' happen to Ireland.

Not because it really mattered, that there was anything wrong, or anything untoward at all happened - it was all fine and nothing wrong with it to be honest..

It's because finally the Marie-Antoinette of Irish life, the judiciary, felt the red hot poker coming for their jacksies. Keep acting like dictators ignoring the political, legislative and public outrage and you can get one right up your hole too!

Once accountability was added to the list of concerns for these fckers they moved - it was only when they for the first time ever had accountability though....

Nardol, you really know nothing about Irish life.

Arrogance of those in the legal profession example number 463728445653.

You know nothing about me bar a few minor minor details.

[Duff Paddy]

Actually Nardol you have put up a shit load of personal information over the past years

[EverReady]

How do any of you remember this stuff

[anonymous_joe]

Nardol, if you're claiming to be au fait with how the Irish legal system works, we're all in trouble.

[HighKingLeinster]

How do any of you remember this stuff

I keep extensive dossiers on all of you that contain all the real world info i have gleaned over the years. For example, your real name Gary "Gunty" McGinnan, 16 years old from Lucan and, unknown to many, are the person behind the notorious Lucan Letch, a peeping tom known to wear oul wans bloomers while watching the yummy mummies at the local yoga breast feeding class

[EverReady]

How do any of you remember this stuff

I keep extensive dossiers on all of you that contain all the real world info i have gleaned over the years. For example, your real name Gary "Gunty" McGinnan, 16 years old from Lucan and, unknown to many, are the person behind the notorious Lucan Letch, a peeping tom known to wear oul wans bloomers while watching the yummy mummies at the local yoga breast feeding class

Shit

[Duff Paddy]

How do any of you remember this stuff

There is a poster on here who knows a lot about all of you...

[EverReady]

How do any of you remember this stuff

There is a poster on here who knows a lot about all of you...

Not me. I'm a ninja

[Gavin Duffy]

A 2018 report by the Personal Injuries Commission found the average amount paid out in Ireland for whiplash injuries was 4.4 times higher than in England and Wales.

What can you even say.

Bit misleading as the Tories artificially lowered compensation for whiplash only.

How does one 'artificially' reduce a compo award?

[HighKingLeinster]

A 2018 report by the Personal Injuries Commission found the average amount paid out in Ireland for whiplash injuries was 4.4 times higher than in England and Wales.

What can you even say.

Bit misleading as the Tories artificially lowered compensation for whiplash only.

How does one 'artificially' reduce a compo award?

By setting it at a reasonable amount for genuine cases. Unfortunately this would damage the viability of the ambulance chasers business model

[Gavin Duffy]

I reckon the award levels are all 'artificial' anyway.

[anonymous_joe]

A 2018 report by the Personal Injuries Commission found the average amount paid out in Ireland for whiplash injuries was 4.4 times higher than in England and Wales.

What can you even say.

Bit misleading as the Tories artificially lowered compensation for whiplash only.

How does one 'artificially' reduce a compo award?

They introduced legislation that capped damages for whiplash only.

So the exact same symptoms would be compensated differently depending on what part of the body suffered.

[CM11]

I have a sore foot

How did you get it?

Neck snapped back in an accident

Sounds like the exact symptom as whiplash but given it's in your foot, we're good to go

Cha ching!!

[anonymous_joe]

Or somebody suffers a bad injury to their knee because of a car accident and is compensated at the par value but somebody suffering a bad injury to their back receives less compensation for injuries that interfere with their life to the same degree.

[Duff Paddy]

I have a sore foot

How did you get it?

Neck snapped back in an accident

Sounds like the exact symptom as whiplash but given it's in your foot, we're good to go

Cha ching!!

Whiplash sounds much scarier and violent. As if your head is attached to your body by a coiled spring. A sore neck doesn’t elicit the same emotion.

[CM11]

Or somebody suffers a bad injury to their knee because of a car accident and is compensated at the par value but somebody suffering a bad injury to their back receives less compensation for injuries that interfere with their life to the same degree.

Except whiplash isn't a bad back injury.

[nardol]

Nardol, if you're claiming to be au fait with how the Irish legal system works, we're all in trouble.

I have an irish tax law qualification, 3 law degrees (admittedly with an EU focus and not Irish law or process) and have consulted for some rather large Irish legal firms.

So while I'm in no way an expert in Irish legal frameworks I am not on the trump scale of not knowing.

I am also able to think rationally.... sometimes... and can see the great damage the intransigence of the Irish judiciary is causing Ireland. Any fool can also see the tax free lottery handouts and lack of accountability judges in Ireland face compared to most other Western European countries. Self regulation works in some other countries, it clearly does not here.

The judge that was to decide woulfes future, Clarke, made an absolute ass of himself in the process. He also assisted in creating a constitutional cluster fudge. Did golf gate help expose this to the wider Irish public? Yes.
Is it a good thing the Irish public know how incompetent the accountability and regulation of judges is in Ireland? Yes.

The legal profession benefit by keeping the processes opaque so the public is unable to challenge. I see youre first instinct is also to smack down anyone that's an 'outsider' willing to challenge.... Quelle surprise

[anonymous_joe]

Or somebody suffers a bad injury to their knee because of a car accident and is compensated at the par value but somebody suffering a bad injury to their back receives less compensation for injuries that interfere with their life to the same degree.

Except whiplash isn't a bad back injury.

What do you think it is?

[nardol]

Or somebody suffers a bad injury to their knee because of a car accident and is compensated at the par value but somebody suffering a bad injury to their back receives less compensation for injuries that interfere with their life to the same degree.

Except whiplash isn't a bad back injury.

What do you think it is?

A lottery ticket that's free to purchase?

Actually... No its not free its state (provision of courts and services) public and private sector (insurance premiums and cost of doing business) funded lottery ticket

[anonymous_joe]

Nardol, if you're claiming to be au fait with how the Irish legal system works, we're all in trouble.

I have an irish tax law qualification, 3 law degrees (admittedly with an EU focus and not Irish law or process) and have consulted for some rather large Irish legal firms.

So while I'm in no way an expert in Irish legal frameworks I am not on the trump scale of not knowing.

I am also able to think rationally.... sometimes... and can see the great damage the intransigence of the Irish judiciary is causing Ireland. Any fool can also see the tax free lottery handouts and lack of accountability judges in Ireland face compared to most other Western European countries. Self regulation works in some other countries, it clearly does not here.

The judge that was to decide woulfes future, Clarke, made an absolute ass of himself in the process. He also assisted in creating a constitutional cluster fudge.

This is the problem.

Let's put aside tax, you've clearly not practiced. Nothing wrong with that either, but you've clearly spent fúck all time doing anything even approximating litigation.

You clearly understand very little about PI either, because you're still parroting lines that the Central Bank has very belatedly had to acknowledge were false.

The link between premium levels and damages has been demonstrated on a number of occasions to be tenuous at best. Most noticeably, for several years premium levels skyrocketed with no commensurate increase in the number of claims, the amounts paid out or the cost of claims.

Indeed, it emerged that the cost of claims has fallen.

I'd link to think that somebody with three degrees would be able to work out that when the cost of insuring risk goes down and the price of insurance goes up that the problem isn't the risk.

[CM11]

Or somebody suffers a bad injury to their knee because of a car accident and is compensated at the par value but somebody suffering a bad injury to their back receives less compensation for injuries that interfere with their life to the same degree.

Except whiplash isn't a bad back injury.

What do you think it is?

A non existent injury where a patient makes up symptoms and a compliant doctor diagnoses with only the patient's word for it as opposed to a back injury which can be diagnosed by scans.

[nardol]

Nardol, if you're claiming to be au fait with how the Irish legal system works, we're all in trouble.

I have an irish tax law qualification, 3 law degrees (admittedly with an EU focus and not Irish law or process) and have consulted for some rather large Irish legal firms.

So while I'm in no way an expert in Irish legal frameworks I am not on the trump scale of not knowing.

I am also able to think rationally.... sometimes... and can see the great damage the intransigence of the Irish judiciary is causing Ireland. Any fool can also see the tax free lottery handouts and lack of accountability judges in Ireland face compared to most other Western European countries. Self regulation works in some other countries, it clearly does not here.

The judge that was to decide woulfes future, Clarke, made an absolute ass of himself in the process. He also assisted in creating a constitutional cluster fudge.

This is the problem.

Let's put aside tax, you've clearly not practiced. Nothing wrong with that either, but you've clearly spent fúck all time doing anything even approximating litigation.

You clearly understand very little about PI either, because you're still parroting lines that the Central Bank has very belatedly had to acknowledge were false.

The link between premium levels and damages has been demonstrated on a number of occasions to be tenuous at best. Most noticeably, for several years premium levels skyrocketed with no commensurate increase in the number of claims, the amounts paid out or the cost of claims.

Indeed, it emerged that the cost of claims has fallen.

I'd link to think that somebody with three degrees would be able to work out that when the cost of insuring risk goes down and the price of insurance goes up that the problem isn't the risk.

Competition is a factor yes. But why do you think that there are so few additional entrants to the Irish market? Could it be because payouts are massive comparatively to other jurisdictions?
A small reduction in claims from a shit load is still a shit load.
Why sell car insurance in Ireland where whiplash, the apparent popular example, costs roll a dice to decide how many multiples of 10k you get when you can sell in France. Where you get....

It all comes back to the intransigence of the judiciary and the chronically slow pace they adopt reforms. How long has this current review of the book of quantum been ongoing?

[Duff Paddy]

Nardol, if you're claiming to be au fait with how the Irish legal system works, we're all in trouble.

I have an irish tax law qualification, 3 law degrees (admittedly with an EU focus and not Irish law or process) and have consulted for some rather large Irish legal firms.

So while I'm in no way an expert in Irish legal frameworks I am not on the trump scale of not knowing.

I am also able to think rationally.... sometimes... and can see the great damage the intransigence of the Irish judiciary is causing Ireland. Any fool can also see the tax free lottery handouts and lack of accountability judges in Ireland face compared to most other Western European countries. Self regulation works in some other countries, it clearly does not here.

The judge that was to decide woulfes future, Clarke, made an absolute ass of himself in the process. He also assisted in creating a constitutional cluster fudge. Did golf gate help expose this to the wider Irish public? Yes.
Is it a good thing the Irish public know how incompetent the accountability and regulation of judges is in Ireland? Yes.

The legal profession benefit by keeping the processes opaque so the public is unable to challenge. I see youre first instinct is also to smack down anyone that's an 'outsider' willing to challenge.... Quelle surprise

Sit down AJ

[Duff Paddy]

Nardol, if you're claiming to be au fait with how the Irish legal system works, we're all in trouble.

I have an irish tax law qualification, 3 law degrees (admittedly with an EU focus and not Irish law or process) and have consulted for some rather large Irish legal firms.

So while I'm in no way an expert in Irish legal frameworks I am not on the trump scale of not knowing.

I am also able to think rationally.... sometimes... and can see the great damage the intransigence of the Irish judiciary is causing Ireland. Any fool can also see the tax free lottery handouts and lack of accountability judges in Ireland face compared to most other Western European countries. Self regulation works in some other countries, it clearly does not here.

The judge that was to decide woulfes future, Clarke, made an absolute ass of himself in the process. He also assisted in creating a constitutional cluster fudge.

This is the problem.

Let's put aside tax, you've clearly not practiced. Nothing wrong with that either, but you've clearly spent fúck all time doing anything even approximating litigation.

You clearly understand very little about PI either, because you're still parroting lines that the Central Bank has very belatedly had to acknowledge were false.

The link between premium levels and damages has been demonstrated on a number of occasions to be tenuous at best. Most noticeably, for several years premium levels skyrocketed with no commensurate increase in the number of claims, the amounts paid out or the cost of claims.

Indeed, it emerged that the cost of claims has fallen.

I'd link to think that somebody with three degrees would be able to work out that when the cost of insuring risk goes down and the price of insurance goes up that the problem isn't the risk.

Same old AJ bollox. When caught red handed, blame the insurance industry. The insurance industry do the same the legal profession. The truth is that the fault lies on both sides. AJ is just an apologist for grubbiest aspects of the legal profession

[anonymous_joe]

What was that about sitting down, Duff?

I like that you're trying to place the argument on a moral level rather than a factual one. It must be awkward when the numbers are so unfavourable, I suppose.

The villains in this story have always been the insurers. Every decade or so they start blaming the lawyers and every decade or so gullible idiots like yourself fall for it.

[anonymous_joe]

Competition is a factor yes. But why do you think that there are so few additional entrants to the Irish market? Could it be because payouts are massive comparatively to other jurisdictions?
A small reduction in claims from a shit load is still a shit load.
Why sell car insurance in Ireland where whiplash, the apparent popular example, costs roll a dice to decide how many multiples of 10k you get when you can sell in France. Where you get....

It all comes back to the intransigence of the judiciary and the chronically slow pace they adopt reforms. How long has this current review of the book of quantum been ongoing?

What reforms are you suggesting the judiciary resisted?

They don't make the law.

They're not behind the review of the book of quantum either.

Saying a small reduction in claims from a shitload is still a shitload is just you limping away with your tail between your legs. There was no increase in their cost of business and a massive increase in the price they charged consumers. It's that simple.

They tried to pull a fast one and people fell for it and are now too embarrassed to admit they were hoodwinked.

[Duff Paddy]

What was that about sitting down, Duff?

I like that you're trying to place the argument on a moral level rather than a factual one. It must be awkward when the numbers are so unfavourable, I suppose.

The villains in this story have always been the insurers. Every decade or so they start blaming the lawyers and every decade or so gullible idiots like yourself fall for it.

You’re not comfortable with a moral argument clearly

[Duff Paddy]

The villains in this story have always been the insurers

and the whiter than white legal profession conveniently don’t shoulder any blame fair play AJ that’s some good Monday trolling

[nardol]

Competition is a factor yes. But why do you think that there are so few additional entrants to the Irish market? Could it be because payouts are massive comparatively to other jurisdictions?
A small reduction in claims from a shit load is still a shit load.
Why sell car insurance in Ireland where whiplash, the apparent popular example, costs roll a dice to decide how many multiples of 10k you get when you can sell in France. Where you get....

It all comes back to the intransigence of the judiciary and the chronically slow pace they adopt reforms. How long has this current review of the book of quantum been ongoing?

What reforms are you suggesting the judiciary resisted?

They don't make the law.

They're not behind the review of the book of quantum either.

Saying a small reduction in claims from a shitload is still a shitload is just you limping away with your tail between your legs. There was no increase in their cost of business and a massive increase in the price they charged consumers. It's that simple.

They tried to pull a fast one and people fell for it and are now too embarrassed to admit they were hoodwinked.

If profits are so spunktastic in Ireland how come not a single effin new insurance company is either entering or broadening their product offering in Ireland?

The evil insurance companies hate making money I suppose.

[nardol]

Competition is a factor yes. But why do you think that there are so few additional entrants to the Irish market? Could it be because payouts are massive comparatively to other jurisdictions?
A small reduction in claims from a shit load is still a shit load.
Why sell car insurance in Ireland where whiplash, the apparent popular example, costs roll a dice to decide how many multiples of 10k you get when you can sell in France. Where you get....

It all comes back to the intransigence of the judiciary and the chronically slow pace they adopt reforms. How long has this current review of the book of quantum been ongoing?

What reforms are you suggesting the judiciary resisted?

They don't make the law.

They're not behind the review of the book of quantum either.

Saying a small reduction in claims from a shitload is still a shitload is just you limping away with your tail between your legs. There was no increase in their cost of business and a massive increase in the price they charged consumers. It's that simple.

They tried to pull a fast one and people fell for it and are now too embarrassed to admit they were hoodwinked.

What year did quinn insurance collapse and when were their policy holders bailed out by the other insurers?

[anonymous_joe]

Competition is a factor yes. But why do you think that there are so few additional entrants to the Irish market? Could it be because payouts are massive comparatively to other jurisdictions?
A small reduction in claims from a shit load is still a shit load.
Why sell car insurance in Ireland where whiplash, the apparent popular example, costs roll a dice to decide how many multiples of 10k you get when you can sell in France. Where you get....

It all comes back to the intransigence of the judiciary and the chronically slow pace they adopt reforms. How long has this current review of the book of quantum been ongoing?

What reforms are you suggesting the judiciary resisted?

They don't make the law.

They're not behind the review of the book of quantum either.

Saying a small reduction in claims from a shitload is still a shitload is just you limping away with your tail between your legs. There was no increase in their cost of business and a massive increase in the price they charged consumers. It's that simple.

They tried to pull a fast one and people fell for it and are now too embarrassed to admit they were hoodwinked.

What year did quinn insurance collapse and when were their policy holders bailed out by the other insurers?

Quinn collapsed because of it's idiotic owner, not because of PIs.

[nardol]

Not the point I was making.

The rest of the insurance industry had to pitch in to rescue the policy holders.
The year you quoted above was when the bulk of this started to hit the financial results of these other insurers.

Its another reason why policies costs have been increasing. Your assessment is rather simplistic. 'Insurance companies bad' while great to the ears of SF esque populists does not encompass the full scale of the issues.

Cost of doing business in Ireland is high and Ireland is a small market. As a result its difficult to attract multinationals to Ireland to deliver products that require specific Irish compliance (you see this with banks insurance companies etc). Compliance costs are usually standard enough if you sell to 60m or 5m. Adding to that is that Irish handouts by judges are the largest in Europe. Unless you want to cut compliance costs - which inevitably results in more shit hitting the fan - to attract business in youre going to have to cut costs. Handouts are by far the biggest component of this.


I went more granular in the explanation than the initial post above as the laughing smiley says you appear to not have grasped the point.

[anonymous_joe]

You're again claiming something occurred to increase policy costs.

What was it?

When did it happen?

How much did policy costs rise by?

What was the cause of that?

No matter how hard you try and indulge in sophistry, you cannot point to the cost of claims, be it legal or payouts going up to such a level that the insurers had to raise premium levels.

It's really not difficult.

If the problem was increased costs, you'd be able to point out when the costs went up and by how much. That you can't says it all.

The insurance company fúcked up by being overly reliant on the construction boom to fuel profits generated by investing premium money. They then needed to increase premium levels to restore and then increase profitability. Nothing else. The cost of claims was going down at the same time.