The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thread

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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by bok_viking »

New guy wrote:Let's be honest here, no Chelsea, Man City or United fan would swap their CL spot for an FA cup. I'm not knocking you for being pleased, I was happy when United won the FA cup in 2016(?). But do I look back on that season with any fondness? Nope. We were shite.

Arsenal to me look like a club in terminal decline.
I wanted United to play a complete 2nd team in the SF against Chelsea actually. They were looking very jaded in the last week and half. I just wanted them to focus on the premier league and then give the Europa League a good go afterwards. So for me the FA Cup was something that could be done if anything else were sorted out. Its nice to win it, something that can put gloss on a season if you had a decent one, but not winning it does not hurt at all. I am looking at the way United played since January with much more fondness than the last 5 years. It was actually enjoyable to watch for the most part. None of the styles we saw under Van Gaal and Mourinho that was almost unbearable to watch at times.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

New guy wrote:Let's be honest here, no Chelsea, Man City or United fan would swap their CL spot for an FA cup. I'm not knocking you for being pleased, I was happy when United won the FA cup in 2016(?). But do I look back on that season with any fondness? Nope. We were shite.
In five years time, no Chelsea or Man fan will remember fondly coming top 4 this season and inning nothing. They will remember their F.A. Cup wins. No Arsenal fan cares Spurs have been in the Champions league more often since 2014, we won 4 F.A. Cups and they won nothing.

A top 4 spot may set you up for the potential more prestigious Champions League football next season. Good for the clubs finances but not much else. But honestly, 3rd and 4th are probably going to be thrashed by the Round of 16. Look at a fans memories of a season. Do they remember a top 4 spot or picking up trophies?

Arsenal to me look like a club in terminal decline.
Look closer. Look at what Arteta has done in a short period of time. He came to a team in turmoil, falling apart, Xhaka had walked out on the fans, the defence was a mess, Aubameyang was down and not scoring much, Pepe wasn't being played, Cerebos wasn't playing or bothering at training, the team was at war. Then he arrived, made Xhaka our stand out midfielder, got Aubameyang scoring again, re-invented Laccassette, got some top performance from Pepe, introduced a half dozen youngsters (Saka, Maitland-Niles, Nelson, Nketiah, Martinelli, Willock) who all played vital roles at some point and made our reserve goalkeeper play world class. Heck he even got Mustaffi to pass as a credible defender. He's adapted the tactics and formation every game to our opponents, won most of his big games and done what hasn't happened in years, beaten the whole top 4 and made the player feel like they can and will win any big match. It's a crying shame he didn't arrive earlier.

IMO next season he'll been able to use the short pre-season to mold the team more into his own vision. He's been assured by the board they will be transfer activity, we have highly rated defender William Saliba back from loan after buying him last season and rumour has it Barcelona want Guendozi and 9 million for Coutinho which would be a bargain. Arsenal can only get better and will be under a superior coach all season.

Also I think Ole Gunnar Solskjær isn't doing a great job at Utd )he's doing OK) for the sheer cost of the team he has and Frank Lampard actually took Chelsea back a place and 6 points less than last season despite a loaded squad. IMO the top 4 is open for attack next season.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by New guy »

Finishing third isn't a memorable achievement but it still keeps up the illusion of being a top club and helps with attracting better quality signings.

I really cant see Arsenal getting anywhere near top 4 next year, unless they have a good transfer window and keep Aubameyang.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

New guy wrote:Finishing third isn't a memorable achievement but it still keeps up the illusion of being a top club and helps with attracting better quality signings.
Illusion of status is meaningless without trophies. At the end of the day the season is memorable by silverware not who you can buy in the off-season. Arsenal fans lats night celebrated far bigger than any Man Utd or Chelsea fan did this season. No one was counting their record of top 4 finishes as Arsenal earned praise for being the greatest F.A. Cup side of all time with 14 wins, 10% of all F.A Cups.


I really cant see Arsenal getting anywhere near top 4 next year, unless they have a good transfer window and keep Aubameyang.
Arsenal this season only missed out on top 4 with something like 3 games to go. Arteta took over a club with a record of something like 2 wins in the past 16 matches in December and without any transfers or additions took them to a club who beat the whole top 4 in mostly big matches and F.A. Cup winners. Imagine if took over at the start of the season.

Next season he will effectively have two better centre backs, and it seems likely Arsenal will be shopping for a quality DM and creative midfielder. Man Utd aren't going to be much better and Chelsea seem determined to buy players they have strength in already. Plus Lampard technically took them backwards by 6 points off last season. Also Arsenal actually lost fewer games than Leicester, Spurs and Chelsea. Top 4 could well be converting those drab draws under Emery and Ljungberg plus a few "team in total chaos" losses into wins against lower opposition. Also add on that most of the top 4 have more games this season in Europe while Arsenal players are resting and getting some pre-season in. Spurs have Europa qualifying, Wolves still have the europa league with Man Utd with Chelsea, Leicester and Man City with Champions League games to come. Arsenal can start with a rest and preparation advantage over everyone above them.


Top 4 for Arsenal is certainly a realistic goal. I'm not saying it is certain but it's a heck of a lot closer than you claim.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by P in VG »

:lol: That's some lovely rose tinted analysis of Arsenal FC
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by iarmhiman »

Arsenal won't challenge top 4.

Spurs will.

Liverpool
United
City
Chelsea

In that order next year
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by not_english »

Spurs have been about as rubbish as Arsenal this year.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by LandOTurk »

P in VG wrote::lol: That's some lovely rose tinted analysis of Arsenal FC
Brilliant effort to be fair though.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by LandOTurk »

Of the top 6 teams or so my favouritism is as:

Liverpool
Arsenal
Chelsea
Spurs
Man City
Man Utd
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

P in VG wrote::lol: That's some lovely rose tinted analysis of Arsenal FC
It's analysis based on facts mate. And I've not be positive about Arsenal for a long while.

-Arteta took over Arsenal when they had 2 wins in 16 matches and completely turned it around.
-Arsenal where only out of the Top 4 with 4 games to go.
-Arteta got the defence in a much better position
-Arteta beat the whole top 4 in his half season in charge.
-William Saliba has joined the club. He was brought a year ago. Defence is already improved.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

iarmhiman wrote:Arsenal won't challenge top 4.

Spurs will.

Liverpool
United
City
Chelsea

In that order next year
I bet they will challenge. I also doubt United will overhaul City next season.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by Olddantucker »

eldanielfire wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Arsenal won't challenge top 4.

Spurs will.

Liverpool
United
City
Chelsea

In that order next year
I bet they will challenge. I also doubt United will overhaul City next season.
Thats a very ambitious prediction for United! :lol:

I'm also not entirely convinced we will be top again. 97 points and 99 points, 2 years in a row. It's really hard to back up a third year in a row and that's really what we're talking about.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by LandOTurk »

eldanielfire wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Arsenal won't challenge top 4.

Spurs will.

Liverpool
United
City
Chelsea

In that order next year
I bet they will challenge. I also doubt United will overhaul City next season.
For me it will be City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Leicester, Spurs
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by mabunch78 »

I'm slightly cheered by the confidence you fans of other clubs have in Spurs but only a bit. I can't see us arresting the sh#tness just yet. I'm starting to think Mourinho's 2nd place with Man Utd in 2018 was a modern-day miracle....never to be repeated...
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by New guy »

eldanielfire wrote:
P in VG wrote::lol: That's some lovely rose tinted analysis of Arsenal FC
It's analysis based on facts mate. And I've not be positive about Arsenal for a long while.

-Arteta took over Arsenal when they had 2 wins in 16 matches and completely turned it around.
-Arsenal where only out of the Top 4 with 4 games to go.
-Arteta got the defence in a much better position
-Arteta beat the whole top 4 in his half season in charge.
-William Saliba has joined the club. He was brought a year ago. Defence is already improved.
What do you mean they only missed out with 4 games to go? They spent most of the season languishing around 10th place :lol:.

Since Arteta came in, Arsenal have been the 6th best team in the league. I think that sounds like a realistic ambition for next season.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by New guy »

iarmhiman wrote:Arsenal won't challenge top 4.

Spurs will.

Liverpool
United
City
Chelsea

In that order next year
Yeah I can see Jose grinding out a bunch of 1-0 wins to keep Spurs in touching distance.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

Olddantucker wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Arsenal won't challenge top 4.

Spurs will.

Liverpool
United
City
Chelsea

In that order next year
I bet they will challenge. I also doubt United will overhaul City next season.
Thats a very ambitious prediction for United! :lol:

I'm also not entirely convinced we will be top again. 97 points and 99 points, 2 years in a row. It's really hard to back up a third year in a row and that's really what we're talking about.
I agree. However Man City still have the Champions League, that may reduce them to essentially getting no/much less of a pre-season break which might benefit Liverpool. Same reasoning I'm saying Arsenal might have one schedule advantage over Spurs (who now have 3 extra Europa qualifying games thanks to our F.A. Cup win), Utd, Leicester and Chelsea. It will still be competitive but as I said even in a terrible season almost certainly not to be repeated Arsenal still where challenging for a Champions League place with 4 games to go.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by New guy »

Arsenal were never challenging for top 4 :lol:
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

New guy wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
P in VG wrote::lol: That's some lovely rose tinted analysis of Arsenal FC
It's analysis based on facts mate. And I've not be positive about Arsenal for a long while.

-Arteta took over Arsenal when they had 2 wins in 16 matches and completely turned it around.
-Arsenal where only out of the Top 4 with 4 games to go.
-Arteta got the defence in a much better position
-Arteta beat the whole top 4 in his half season in charge.
-William Saliba has joined the club. He was brought a year ago. Defence is already improved.
What do you mean they only missed out with 4 games to go? They spent most of the season languishing around 10th place :lol:.

Since Arteta came in, Arsenal have been the 6th best team in the league. I think that sounds like a realistic ambition for next season.
Arsenal also had one of the toughest fixture since Arteta came in. As I said it's where Arteta had to pull the team up from without any transfers. Remember David Luiz even said in an early interview the players were even fit enough to play Arteta's way, hence why Arsenal had 15 games they lost points from in winning positions frequently in his early tenure. But got better as time went on. There were simplistic stats are deceptive.

The more important actors are the improved the defence (with no personal change), it's how the results and the big results got better and better as the season went on and how the team was walking off cursing fans to declaring how they love to play for Arteta.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

New guy wrote:Arsenal were never challenging for top 4 :lol:
I'd agree. And yet there late in the season we were still close to getting in.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

Challenging for the top 4 with 4 games to go? Nope, they had a mathematical chance with 4 games to go, provided everyone above them lost every game and they didn't drop a point.

Norwich still had a mathematical chance of making the top 4 with 9 games to go.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by New guy »

8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by New guy »

Jadon Sancho to United looks a done deal.

I'd be lying if I said I was massively excited about this.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by New guy »

So what? United lost fewer games than City.
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Post by C69 »

:shock: Brentford could be in the Premiership
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by tiddle »

Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
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Post by C69 »

tiddle wrote:Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
Same for fat Frank et al
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by iarmhiman »

Chelsea need to sort their defense. Their attack will be very potent next season.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
Yes, and context plays a large part, a few games to go means you are contenders.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by tiddle »

Bimboc69 wrote:
tiddle wrote:Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
Same for fat Frank et al
Agreed. That's why there's such a large distance between liverpool/city and the rest of the top 6

The two big teams actually have excellent coaches
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Post by eldanielfire »

tiddle wrote:Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
That's my point. It was not only an utter shambles but it was disintegrating before our eyes. What Arteta did was actually more than the initial results suggested. I think Man Utd have spend the most out of any side since Moyles left but have failed to identify 'that' coach.
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Post by New guy »

Well I for one am very excited to see what Peps water boy, I mean football genius, Mikel Arteta is going to achieve next season. :nod:
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

eldanielfire wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
Yes, and context plays a large part, a few games to go means you are contenders.
No, no it does not.

Arsenal finished 8th, 10 points off the CL places, who gives a shit if mathematically they could make the top 4 with 4 weeks to go, as I said you wouldn't say Norwich were contending for the top 4 with 9 games to go purely because they mathematically could have made it you loon.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
Yes, and context plays a large part, a few games to go means you are contenders.
No, no it does not.

Arsenal finished 8th, 10 points off the CL places, who gives a shit if mathematically they could make the top 4 with 4 weeks to go, as I said you wouldn't say Norwich were contending for the top 4 with 9 games to go purely because they mathematically could have made it you loon.
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

eldanielfire wrote:
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
If they are 5 points away it is not in their hands as they need teams above them to drop points.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
If they are 5 points away it is not in their hands as they need teams above them to drop points.
You forgot to add something silly and irrelevant about Norwich there.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by P in VG »

See, the thing about Arsenal is they always try to walk it in.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

eldanielfire wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
If they are 5 points away it is not in their hands as they need teams above them to drop points.
You forgot to add something silly and irrelevant about Norwich there.
You forgot to say something ridiculous about Arsenal having it in their own hands when it's patently not.
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