The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thread

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eldanielfire
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

Olddantucker wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Arsenal won't challenge top 4.

Spurs will.

Liverpool
United
City
Chelsea

In that order next year
I bet they will challenge. I also doubt United will overhaul City next season.
Thats a very ambitious prediction for United! :lol:

I'm also not entirely convinced we will be top again. 97 points and 99 points, 2 years in a row. It's really hard to back up a third year in a row and that's really what we're talking about.
I agree. However Man City still have the Champions League, that may reduce them to essentially getting no/much less of a pre-season break which might benefit Liverpool. Same reasoning I'm saying Arsenal might have one schedule advantage over Spurs (who now have 3 extra Europa qualifying games thanks to our F.A. Cup win), Utd, Leicester and Chelsea. It will still be competitive but as I said even in a terrible season almost certainly not to be repeated Arsenal still where challenging for a Champions League place with 4 games to go.
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Arsenal were never challenging for top 4 :lol:
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New guy wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
P in VG wrote::lol: That's some lovely rose tinted analysis of Arsenal FC
It's analysis based on facts mate. And I've not be positive about Arsenal for a long while.

-Arteta took over Arsenal when they had 2 wins in 16 matches and completely turned it around.
-Arsenal where only out of the Top 4 with 4 games to go.
-Arteta got the defence in a much better position
-Arteta beat the whole top 4 in his half season in charge.
-William Saliba has joined the club. He was brought a year ago. Defence is already improved.
What do you mean they only missed out with 4 games to go? They spent most of the season languishing around 10th place :lol:.

Since Arteta came in, Arsenal have been the 6th best team in the league. I think that sounds like a realistic ambition for next season.
Arsenal also had one of the toughest fixture since Arteta came in. As I said it's where Arteta had to pull the team up from without any transfers. Remember David Luiz even said in an early interview the players were even fit enough to play Arteta's way, hence why Arsenal had 15 games they lost points from in winning positions frequently in his early tenure. But got better as time went on. There were simplistic stats are deceptive.

The more important actors are the improved the defence (with no personal change), it's how the results and the big results got better and better as the season went on and how the team was walking off cursing fans to declaring how they love to play for Arteta.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

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New guy wrote:Arsenal were never challenging for top 4 :lol:
I'd agree. And yet there late in the season we were still close to getting in.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

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Challenging for the top 4 with 4 games to go? Nope, they had a mathematical chance with 4 games to go, provided everyone above them lost every game and they didn't drop a point.

Norwich still had a mathematical chance of making the top 4 with 9 games to go.
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8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
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Jadon Sancho to United looks a done deal.

I'd be lying if I said I was massively excited about this.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

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New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

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So what? United lost fewer games than City.
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:shock: Brentford could be in the Premiership
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
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Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
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tiddle wrote:Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
Same for fat Frank et al
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by iarmhiman »

Chelsea need to sort their defense. Their attack will be very potent next season.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
Yes, and context plays a large part, a few games to go means you are contenders.
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Bimboc69 wrote:
tiddle wrote:Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
Same for fat Frank et al
Agreed. That's why there's such a large distance between liverpool/city and the rest of the top 6

The two big teams actually have excellent coaches
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tiddle wrote:Don't think you can extrapolate much about Arteta's arsenal team since they were a shambles when he took over and then there was 2 1/2 months interruption in the middle of the season. They'll probably finish top 6 because they have too much quality in their squad.

Same goes for United. Ole seems pretty clueless but the squad is good enough to finish top 4 without much guidance.
That's my point. It was not only an utter shambles but it was disintegrating before our eyes. What Arteta did was actually more than the initial results suggested. I think Man Utd have spend the most out of any side since Moyles left but have failed to identify 'that' coach.
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Well I for one am very excited to see what Peps water boy, I mean football genius, Mikel Arteta is going to achieve next season. :nod:
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

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eldanielfire wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
Yes, and context plays a large part, a few games to go means you are contenders.
No, no it does not.

Arsenal finished 8th, 10 points off the CL places, who gives a shit if mathematically they could make the top 4 with 4 weeks to go, as I said you wouldn't say Norwich were contending for the top 4 with 9 games to go purely because they mathematically could have made it you loon.
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Post by eldanielfire »

earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:8-10 points off the pace and in 7/8th place isn't close. It's nowhere near.
Considering Arsenal lost fewer games than Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

You are sound more and more like you've only ever seen the league table and nothing else.
This is pointless.

Arsenal mathematically lost the chance of top 4 with 4 games to go, Norwich (who finished 20th) had a chance with 9 games to go mathematically.
Yes, and context plays a large part, a few games to go means you are contenders.
No, no it does not.

Arsenal finished 8th, 10 points off the CL places, who gives a shit if mathematically they could make the top 4 with 4 weeks to go, as I said you wouldn't say Norwich were contending for the top 4 with 9 games to go purely because they mathematically could have made it you loon.
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

eldanielfire wrote:
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
If they are 5 points away it is not in their hands as they need teams above them to drop points.
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earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
If they are 5 points away it is not in their hands as they need teams above them to drop points.
You forgot to add something silly and irrelevant about Norwich there.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by P in VG »

See, the thing about Arsenal is they always try to walk it in.
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Post by earl the beaver »

eldanielfire wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Yes I know where Arsenal ended up. But I'm sorry, if you're close to it at the business end of the season it competing. No one was saying they were favourites. They were also at one point 5 points away from it in June. That is hardly a "mathematical in theory" position like your silly Norwich example taken from a quart of the season back, but it was actually in Arsenals hands, even if they were regarded more as outsiders.
If they are 5 points away it is not in their hands as they need teams above them to drop points.
You forgot to add something silly and irrelevant about Norwich there.
You forgot to say something ridiculous about Arsenal having it in their own hands when it's patently not.
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Post by Sefton »

Arsenal will not be top 4 next year, Chelsea and United will strengthen and they are miles off Liverpool and City.
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Sefton wrote:Arsenal will not be top 4 next year, Chelsea and United will strengthen and they are miles off Liverpool and City.
We will see. As I said, I'm sure Arsenal will challenge for the top 4 and will look much better than the doubters here think they will.
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Really challenge?

Or be mathematically in with a chance of top 4 with 5 games to play provided everyone above them fails to pick up a point and they ultimately finish 10 points behind? That kind of "challenge"
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earl the beaver wrote:Really challenge?

Or be mathematically in with a chance of top 4 with 5 games to play provided everyone above them fails to pick up a point and they ultimately finish 10 points behind? That kind of "challenge"
Wow. You really are that precious :lol: I've sure we'll be in or a lot closer to the top 4 than this season seeing as you need it spelled out for your ego.
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Shaping up to be the latest chapter in the history of Banter FC
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mabunch78 wrote:Shaping up to be the latest chapter in the history of Banter FC
With 4 trophies in just over 6 years, it's not been the worst banter era has it? :nod:
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by tiddle »

eldanielfire wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:Really challenge?

Or be mathematically in with a chance of top 4 with 5 games to play provided everyone above them fails to pick up a point and they ultimately finish 10 points behind? That kind of "challenge"
Wow. You really are that precious :lol: I've sure we'll be in or a lot closer to the top 4 than this season seeing as you need it spelled out for your ego.
He's right though. It's laughable to suggest Arsenal were anywhere close to challenging top 4. Spurs, who finished above them, weren't even talked about in that way.
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City getting the cheque book out now that they've made a mockery of FFP.

£60 million on 2 squad players this week. :roll:
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New guy wrote:City getting the cheque book out now that they've made a mockery of FFP.

£60 million on 2 squad players this week. :roll:
It'll be investigated and it will come down to that they paid for the players 10 years ago.....
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eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:City getting the cheque book out now that they've made a mockery of FFP.

£60 million on 2 squad players this week. :roll:
It'll be investigated and it will come down to that they paid for the players 10 years ago.....
Yeah it's a joke. The fact that a side who were in the second tier of English football not long before the takeover can spend the best part of £2 billion on player transfers shows FFP may as well not exist.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

New guy wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
New guy wrote:City getting the cheque book out now that they've made a mockery of FFP.

£60 million on 2 squad players this week. :roll:
It'll be investigated and it will come down to that they paid for the players 10 years ago.....
Yeah it's a joke. The fact that a side who were in the second tier of English football not long before the takeover can spend the best part of £2 billion on player transfers shows FFP may as well not exist.
FFP as it stands is a mechanism to ensure clubs can't break into the top tier.

They've actually been taken over twice, the initial investment brought the likes of Elano in and they stayed up.

FFP needs to ensure that clubs who have resources can spend them, so if an owner is committed they won't be stuck in the doldrums.

As for City's breaking of it, I would recommend reading the verdict, CAS found that for those offences within the window for UEFAs investigation there was no proof of FFP being broken and that the judgement was passed down without judgement.
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FFP was broken, it just fell outside of the "prosecution time" for the offense, I believe.

I disagree that FFP stops smaller clubs from breaking into the elite. Instead it prevents any club who doesn't have a billionaire owner from ever competing. How can a medium size club like Newcastle or Villa ever hope to compete with Sheik Mansours plastic fantastics? A club which drops hundreds of millions willy nilly on bench warmers.

The route to success is now obvious. Whore yourself out to dodgy middle eastern states or enjoy languishing in mid table.
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Post by mabunch78 »

eldanielfire wrote:
mabunch78 wrote:Shaping up to be the latest chapter in the history of Banter FC
With 4 trophies in just over 6 years, it's not been the worst banter era has it? :nod:
I'll concede that, for sure, especially given how mediocre the talent has been at the club over that time. Sanchez and Ramsey are the reasons for at least two of those four. A trophy pissing contest with a Spurs fan is a fool's errand though. That currency has no meaning with us, water off the back. Did any of those Arsenal trophy winning teams reach anywhere near the level of play from Spurs 16/17 (and a little bit into 17/18)? Is Juande Ramos a quality coach who won a trophy with a quality team? I would seriously have taken 14th under Poch this season just gone while enjoying the majority of possession in 95%+ of our games. It would have been worth tuning in for. I don't subscribe now...can't be called glory hunting unless you're talking about Danny Blanchflower's glory. To anyone who thinks this is just typical Spurs fan conceit, does trophy grabbing make you and your club's fans happy overall most of the time? We all just want to watch good football, don't we; skill, control, risk taking, good decision making...?
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by eldanielfire »

mabunch78 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
mabunch78 wrote:Shaping up to be the latest chapter in the history of Banter FC
With 4 trophies in just over 6 years, it's not been the worst banter era has it? :nod:
I'll concede that, for sure, especially given how mediocre the talent has been at the club over that time. Sanchez and Ramsey are the reasons for at least two of those four. A trophy pissing contest with a Spurs fan is a fool's errand though. That currency has no meaning with us, water off the back. Did any of those Arsenal trophy winning teams reach anywhere near the level of play from Spurs 16/17 (and a little bit into 17/18)? Is Juande Ramos a quality coach who won a trophy with a quality team? I would seriously have taken 14th under Poch this season just gone while enjoying the majority of possession in 95%+ of our games. It would have been worth tuning in for. I don't subscribe now...can't be called glory hunting unless you're talking about Danny Blanchflower's glory. To anyone who thinks this is just typical Spurs fan conceit, does trophy grabbing make you and your club's fans happy overall most of the time? We all just want to watch good football, don't we; skill, control, risk taking, good decision making...?
Weird, considering whatever faults Wenger's latter years had, Arsenal were always a superb team to watch with many brilliant goals scored. I'm not sure an Arsenal fan is missing anything there. ALso a frequent criticism of Wenger's latter years from other fans is Arsenal would have been better if they "didn't try to walk the ball into the net" and scraped a few more 1-0 slug fests would make people happier.

Anyways it isn't a binary choice, we all love to watch our teams play great football. I recall the 2005 F.A. Cup final. I'm not sure Arsenal had a shot on target, but weirdly after a whole game and extra time under siege by Man Utd, we got the win and it felt even more euphoric in doing so. As a fan you can be happier watching your side surge to be 3-0 ahead in 30 mins with sublime attacking play, but a last second goal when you played like shite to win (or on occasion even to draw) in a tight game can produce the greatest happy feeling in sport. Funny how it works.

However as someone who has watched his team produce some of the greatest football to watch and won big, it's fun to watch a good team, but nothing beats the feeling of winning and nothing beats the feeling of silverware as a fan. In the latter years as you reminisce on your teams past, it's the silverware and a few massive games that stick.
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Post by eldanielfire »

New guy wrote:
The route to success is now obvious. Whore yourself out to dodgy middle eastern states or enjoy languishing in mid table.
That's the sad aspect of football today. Sure money always mattered, but the soul really has been ripped out the game.
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Re: The OFFICIAL English and European Football (soccer) thre

Post by earl the beaver »

New guy wrote:FFP was broken, it just fell outside of the "prosecution time" for the offense, I believe.

I disagree that FFP stops smaller clubs from breaking into the elite. Instead it prevents any club who doesn't have a billionaire owner from ever competing. How can a medium size club like Newcastle or Villa ever hope to compete with Sheik Mansours plastic fantastics? A club which drops hundreds of millions willy nilly on bench warmers.

The route to success is now obvious. Whore yourself out to dodgy middle eastern states or enjoy languishing in mid table.
It fell outside the time because City had already paid another fine covering the period the offences were in.

For those offences during the period UEFA actually had banned them for CAS found that no evidence of breaking FFP had been presented by UEFA and that the ban was therefore unfounded.

FFP is intended to ensure that clubs don't overstretch and get left fúcked if a backer pulls out, however, what it really does is ensure the top teams stay at the top, it's not fit for purpose (as discussed here by Wenger)

City's owners are clearly in for the long run and have invested massively in facilities as well as players so it's not just short term buying players.
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