Planet Rugby Forum

Flyin Ryan wrote:Kind of how I felt. Dune's the same way, just read that one book and ignore the rest.

I forced myself to read all the Dune books. They're an interesting saga, if ponderous. Thing is, everything after the first one is utterly different from it. First one is a coming of age for Paul Atreides, a space military conflict, mad creatures with religious zealots living in the desert, falling in love, and, utlimately, revenge.

After that it's all about managing his empire and the fact that he's a religious prophet who has caused the deaths of trillions of innocents and how the religious/political machine gets hijacked and out of control. Then it's about his grandkids coping with their elevated place in society. Then if f**king jumps 1500 years on and it's almost a different story. More religious dictator crap and eventually it moves on to fighting a war against some new military threat and then left unfinished.

Loads of ideas and story arcs with insight into political and organised religious machinations, but it moves extremely far away from the original idea.

Edit to add that the original Dune book had proper baddies. Pantomine villains in the Harkonnens with the power hungry Emperor Shadam in the background. No tangible baddies thereafter.

I enjoyed the prequel series that Herbert jnr. co-wrote about a younger Leto Atreides? I started reading them as a teenager and really enjoyed them. Also read the series about the end of the Butlerian Jihad and then the final two books closing off the original series.
They then started writing books set in between the first few books of the original series but I lost interest half way through the second one. Elements of milking the cash-cow dry.

Bit harsh to say they plundered Frank's universe. Lots of the main story plot points were already sketched out as to how the series would end.

Granted, he may not have had names for Omnius and Erasmus, but as far as I know he had ideas for what it was that the Honoured Matres were on the run from.



I wasn't a huge fan of every main character from the first few books being brought back to life for the climatic books though. Was that done in Heretics.... or one of the KJA/BH ones at the end?

Why is Duncan Idaho, a middling character from a couple thousand years prior that was not all that important a person in his original time in the greater universe, constantly being cloned back to life by the God Emperor? It's sci-fi so you accept certain things that can be odd, but I had a hard time rationalizing it in my head. He doesn't bring back to life his grandfather Leto, his mother, his father Paul, his grandmother Jessica, any of the Harkonnens if Leto II has a desire to kill anyone, all the major characters in Dune, he instead brings back Duncan Idaho time and time again.

Granted, I didn't read the middle books.

Duncan was first brought back to life in Messiah in an attempt to get close to Emperor Paul (being his childhood friend and tutor). He had some overriding programming or something that he was to kill him. He fell in love with Alia and somehow managed to gain all of the original Duncan's memories, effectively becoming him, reincarnating him properly.

Beyond that I can't remember why Leto 2 keeps bringing him back.


Also, Idaho was considered extremely important by the Atreides. It's not really that clear how influential he was, but he Gurney Halleck and Thufir Hawat had transformed the Atreides military into something that the Emperor was fearful of. The three lads were massive influences in young Paul's life.
He doesn't feature much in the book apart from being a presence in the Atreides household and then being told to go off and get the Fremen on side before dying to save Jessica and Paul.

In the Prelude books his backstory is really filled in and it's clearer how important he is to the Atreides.

Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. One of the best books I ever read.

Hellraiser wrote:The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. One of the best books I ever read.

I read the first book and a half a month or two ago and gave up. Does it get better as it goes on, or just not my cup of tea?

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

Magnificent trilogy. House of Suns is also very good.

He was on Celebrity University Challenge a while back as well. In a team of dumbfucks sadly.

Demilich wrote:

Hellraiser wrote:The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. One of the best books I ever read.

I read the first book and a half a month or two ago and gave up. Does it get better as it goes on, or just not my cup of tea?

It seems to be a bit marmitish among readers, which tallies with the comparisons to Ulysses. If you aren't into it after a book and a half more than likely it's just not for you.

Nolanator wrote:Granted, he may not have had names for Omnius and Erasmus, but as far as I know he had ideas for what it was that the Honoured Matres were on the run from.

Didn't they (his family estate) find a manuscript in a safety deposit box that detailed the outline of the whole backstory and how the book saga was meant to finish - i.e. the return of the machines?

Then junior & KJA fleshed out that backstory by writing the the prequels so that people would understand who/what the machines were when then finally concluded the saga.

Flyin Ryan wrote:Why is Duncan Idaho, a middling character from a couple thousand years prior that was not all that important a person in his original time in the greater universe, constantly being cloned back to life by the God Emperor? It's sci-fi so you accept certain things that can be odd, but I had a hard time rationalizing it in my head. He doesn't bring back to life his grandfather Leto, his mother, his father Paul, his grandmother Jessica, any of the Harkonnens if Leto II has a desire to kill anyone, all the major characters in Dune, he instead brings back Duncan Idaho time and time again.

Granted, I didn't read the middle books.

The Golden Path leading to the final incarnation of the Kwisatz Haderach and the end of the war between man and machine.

Demilich wrote:

Hellraiser wrote:The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. One of the best books I ever read.

I read the first book and a half a month or two ago and gave up. Does it get better as it goes on, or just not my cup of tea?

IMO, yes indeed. But it may not be your cup of etc. nevertheless. Only one way to find out...

Always liked John Wyndham's stuff - particularly The Midwich Cuckoos.

As a kid read "Invader" by Albert Fay Hill. It's just pulp fiction but it's a cracking story about an alien invasion. Earth's governments realise a fleet is approaching and have 14 months to get ready. Gripping and believable.

Gospel wrote:

but is there any love for Alistair Reynolds

I enjoyed his Revelation Space novels but others like Terminal World - not so much.

Terrific author ...

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

A5D5E5 a bit earlier in the thread wrote:is there any love for Alistair Reynolds? Some great stuff in the Revelation Space universe. I love the fact that they don't have faster than light travel - it makes it all feel a bit more science and a bit less fiction.

On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

A5D5E5 wrote:

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

A5D5E5 a bit earlier in the thread wrote:is there any love for Alistair Reynolds? Some great stuff in the Revelation Space universe. I love the fact that they don't have faster than light travel - it makes it all feel a bit more science and a bit less fiction.

On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Abyss Beyond Dreams?? Thought it was excellent, he's skill as a world builder is great, just hoping for a better ending than some of the earlier stuff.

Interestingly Reynolds has finally gone FTL with his new book

A5D5E5 wrote:

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

A5D5E5 a bit earlier in the thread wrote:is there any love for Alistair Reynolds? Some great stuff in the Revelation Space universe. I love the fact that they don't have faster than light travel - it makes it all feel a bit more science and a bit less fiction.

On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Doesn't know how to finish a book.

Yer Man wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

A5D5E5 a bit earlier in the thread wrote:is there any love for Alistair Reynolds? Some great stuff in the Revelation Space universe. I love the fact that they don't have faster than light travel - it makes it all feel a bit more science and a bit less fiction.

On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Doesn't know how to finish a book.

Yer Man, who are you saying doesn't know how to finish, Hamilton or Reynolds or both?

Madness wrote:

Yer Man wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

A5D5E5 a bit earlier in the thread wrote:is there any love for Alistair Reynolds? Some great stuff in the Revelation Space universe. I love the fact that they don't have faster than light travel - it makes it all feel a bit more science and a bit less fiction.

On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Doesn't know how to finish a book.

Yer Man, who are you saying doesn't know how to finish, Hamilton or Reynolds or both?

I would guess it is Deus ex Hamilton he means.

He has some brilliant ideas but he does love a bit of "and then the magic alien made everything ok".

Madness wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

A5D5E5 a bit earlier in the thread wrote:is there any love for Alistair Reynolds? Some great stuff in the Revelation Space universe. I love the fact that they don't have faster than light travel - it makes it all feel a bit more science and a bit less fiction.

On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Abyss Beyond Dreams?? Thought it was excellent, he's skill as a world builder is great, just hoping for a better ending than some of the earlier stuff.

Interestingly Reynolds has finally gone FTL with his new book

The trouble with ABD is that it feels like it came out ages ago and that's too big a cliff hanger for TNWS

A5D5E5 wrote:

Madness wrote:

Yer Man wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

normilet wrote:Not sure if it's been covered in here before, but I've just started re-reading the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds. Really love the scope of the thing, the concepts, the tech descriptions. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

A5D5E5 a bit earlier in the thread wrote:is there any love for Alistair Reynolds? Some great stuff in the Revelation Space universe. I love the fact that they don't have faster than light travel - it makes it all feel a bit more science and a bit less fiction.

On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Doesn't know how to finish a book.

Yer Man, who are you saying doesn't know how to finish, Hamilton or Reynolds or both?

I would guess it is Deus ex Hamilton he means.

He has some brilliant ideas but he does love a bit of "and then the magic alien made everything ok".

Can't disagree, I remember suddenly realising I only had about 30 pages to go in Naked God and how could it possibly end, there must be a 4th book...oh no its magic alien time.

However I thought the ending to the Revelation Space books was poor, the rest of the books were great and the second one (Redemption Ark) in particular is the best thing Reynolds has written. Not a big fan of the current series though

Re-reading Diamond Age. Neal Stephenson has some fantastic books. Stephen Donaldsons Gap series is another good one to check out.

Madness wrote:

Yer Man wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Doesn't know how to finish a book.

Yer Man, who are you saying doesn't know how to finish, Hamilton or Reynolds or both?

Hamilton.

Read the Night's Dawn books, all wrapped up in the last 20 pages with Deux Ex Machina.
Read the Commonwealth saga, at least then he managed to stretch it out to about 50 pages. (But he could have cut up to 500 pages of filler out of the second book)
Read the Void books, all wrapped up in about 20 pages again.
Even the Greg Mandrel books, 1 & 2 were good and then finished with an rush job ending. Book 3 was just weak.

The really irritating thing is he sets up his Universe(s) so well and runs the complex story lines for so long, then acts like he's suddenly realised there's a deadline.

Yer Man wrote:

Madness wrote:

Yer Man wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:On the other hand, I was very disappointed in the latest Peter F Hamilton book.

Doesn't know how to finish a book.

Yer Man, who are you saying doesn't know how to finish, Hamilton or Reynolds or both?

Hamilton.

Read the Night's Dawn books, all wrapped up in the last 20 pages with Deux Ex Machina.
Read the Commonwealth saga, at least then he managed to stretch it out to about 50 pages. (But he could have cut up to 500 pages of filler out of the second book)
Read the Void books, all wrapped up in about 20 pages again.
Even the Greg Mandrel books, 1 & 2 were good and then finished with an rush job ending. Book 3 was just weak.

The really irritating thing is he sets up his Universe(s) so well and runs the complex story lines for so long, then acts like he's suddenly realised there's a deadline.

Agree with you completely on Night's Dawn and 3rd Mandel book but pretty happy with how the others ended up. I've been reading quite a few sci fi authors who self publish on kindle and some can be very entertaining but you really notice the difference in universe building from Hamilton.

Just wrapped up two rock-hard sci fi recent releases by favorite authors.

Seveneves by Neal Stephenson - humanity's race against time to get off Earth after the Moon blows up and what's left comes raining down to the surface of the planet.



[spoilers]

Everything that could go wrong does go wrong and the species dwindles to a grand total of seven women (hence the title). The bottleneck is broken by genetic engineering, which results in the diversification of humanity into several subspecies, which maintain an uneasy balance of power/Cold War as life on Earth revives. And then there's the twist...

Aurora, by Kim Stanley Robinson - the travails of a generation ship as the final generation approaches its destination.



This was a bit of a jolt, given the inherently pessimistic conclusion not only about this voyage but the concept of colonizing space at all. Not entirely inconsistent with his vigorous promotion of settling the Solar System in the Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy, and his assumptions may be entirely correct, but not what I was expecting.

Lacrobat wrote:Just wrapped up two rock-hard sci fi recent releases by favorite authors.

Seveneves by Neal Stephenson - humanity's race against time to get off Earth after the Moon blows up and what's left comes raining down to the surface of the planet.



[spoilers]

Everything that could go wrong does go wrong and the species dwindles to a grand total of seven women (hence the title). The bottleneck is broken by genetic engineering, which results in the diversification of humanity into several subspecies, which maintain an uneasy balance of power/Cold War as life on Earth revives. And then there's the twist...

Aurora, by Kim Stanley Robinson - the travails of a generation ship as the final generation approaches its destination.



This was a bit of a jolt, given the inherently pessimistic conclusion not only about this voyage but the concept of colonizing space at all. Not entirely inconsistent with his vigorous promotion of settling the Solar System in the Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy, and his assumptions may be entirely correct, but not what I was expecting.

OOhh! Cheers!

Right, so when I finish The Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy by Cixin Liu ( about halfway through the last book - and so far can thoroughly recommend the trilogy though will have to see how it ends) I think I'll move onto Peter F Hamilton.

I get the feeling that he's a bit like the George R.R Martin of sci-fi, likes extravagant world building? I want something epic to read over the late autumn and winter so I'm looking at the Commonwealth Saga series?

A good idea or should I start with something smaller scale of his first to check out his style?

Read recently that Tiamat's Wrath, Expanse book 8, had been delayed from December to March. They need more editing time.

Boo-urns.

Loved The Algebraist.
The dwellers are my favourite alien species of all time.

Uncle Fester wrote:Loved The Algebraist.
The dwellers are my favourite alien species of all time.

I loved all Iain M Banks work.

tabascoboy wrote:Right, so when I finish The Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy by Cixin Liu ( about halfway through the last book - and so far can thoroughly recommend the trilogy though will have to see how it ends) I think I'll move onto Peter F Hamilton.

I get the feeling that he's a bit like the George R.R Martin of sci-fi, likes extravagant world building? I want something epic to read over the late autumn and winter so I'm looking at the Commonwealth Saga series?

A good idea or should I start with something smaller scale of his first to check out his style?

Try fallen dragon, if you like that crack into nights dawn or the commonwealth saga

Thanks thor!

thor wrote:

tabascoboy wrote:Right, so when I finish The Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy by Cixin Liu ( about halfway through the last book - and so far can thoroughly recommend the trilogy though will have to see how it ends) I think I'll move onto Peter F Hamilton.

I get the feeling that he's a bit like the George R.R Martin of sci-fi, likes extravagant world building? I want something epic to read over the late autumn and winter so I'm looking at the Commonwealth Saga series?

A good idea or should I start with something smaller scale of his first to check out his style?

Try fallen dragon, if you like that crack into nights dawn or the commonwealth saga

Personally I'd start with The Great North Road. Fallen Dragon left me a bit cold

Read two recently

Artemis by Andy Weir (of the Martian fame) - quite good, a casual style for actual hard SF is pretty unique for the genre.

Pacific Edge - Kim Stanley Robinson - Final book of the three California's 'Trillogy' (they're self contained novels in alternative California's, so not a trilogy in the traditional sense) . It's pretty good in all, paints a very anti American capitalist world. Worth a read, and you could even start with this one, although wild shore was my favourite of the series. They're not as infodumpy as the Mars Trilogy, and far less epic in scale.

Saint wrote:

thor wrote:

tabascoboy wrote:Right, so when I finish The Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy by Cixin Liu ( about halfway through the last book - and so far can thoroughly recommend the trilogy though will have to see how it ends) I think I'll move onto Peter F Hamilton.

I get the feeling that he's a bit like the George R.R Martin of sci-fi, likes extravagant world building? I want something epic to read over the late autumn and winter so I'm looking at the Commonwealth Saga series?

A good idea or should I start with something smaller scale of his first to check out his style?

Try fallen dragon, if you like that crack into nights dawn or the commonwealth saga

Personally I'd start with The Great North Road. Fallen Dragon left me a bit cold

Well I can try them both before deciding launching into one of the sagas.

Nolanator wrote:

Flyin Ryan wrote:Kind of how I felt. Dune's the same way, just read that one book and ignore the rest.

I forced myself to read all the Dune books. They're an interesting saga, if ponderous. Thing is, everything after the first one is utterly different from it. First one is a coming of age for Paul Atreides, a space military conflict, mad creatures with religious zealots living in the desert, falling in love, and, utlimately, revenge.

After that it's all about managing his empire and the fact that he's a religious prophet who has caused the deaths of trillions of innocents and how the religious/political machine gets hijacked and out of control. Then it's about his grandkids coping with their elevated place in society. Then if f**king jumps 1500 years on and it's almost a different story. More religious dictator crap and eventually it moves on to fighting a war against some new military threat and then left unfinished.

Loads of ideas and story arcs with insight into political and organised religious machinations, but it moves extremely far away from the original idea.

Edit to add that the original Dune book had proper baddies. Pantomine villains in the Harkonnens with the power hungry Emperor Shadam in the background. No tangible baddies thereafter.

I enjoyed the prequel series that Herbert jnr. co-wrote about a younger Leto Atreides? I started reading them as a teenager and really enjoyed them. Also read the series about the end of the Butlerian Jihad and then the final two books closing off the original series.
They then started writing books set in between the first few books of the original series but I lost interest half way through the second one. Elements of milking the cash-cow dry.

Agreed with all this.

Currently reading the last of the Bas-Lag books The Iron Council by China Mieville. Fantastci books. Also, for those who want something a bit light-hearted, check out the Iron Druid Chronicles by Kevin Hearn. And for some good sci-fi, The Stars Now Unclaimed is a fantastci first effort by Drew Williams.

flaggETERNAL wrote:

Nolanator wrote:

Flyin Ryan wrote:Kind of how I felt. Dune's the same way, just read that one book and ignore the rest.

I forced myself to read all the Dune books. They're an interesting saga, if ponderous. Thing is, everything after the first one is utterly different from it. First one is a coming of age for Paul Atreides, a space military conflict, mad creatures with religious zealots living in the desert, falling in love, and, utlimately, revenge.

After that it's all about managing his empire and the fact that he's a religious prophet who has caused the deaths of trillions of innocents and how the religious/political machine gets hijacked and out of control. Then it's about his grandkids coping with their elevated place in society. Then if f**king jumps 1500 years on and it's almost a different story. More religious dictator crap and eventually it moves on to fighting a war against some new military threat and then left unfinished.

Loads of ideas and story arcs with insight into political and organised religious machinations, but it moves extremely far away from the original idea.

Edit to add that the original Dune book had proper baddies. Pantomine villains in the Harkonnens with the power hungry Emperor Shadam in the background. No tangible baddies thereafter.

I enjoyed the prequel series that Herbert jnr. co-wrote about a younger Leto Atreides? I started reading them as a teenager and really enjoyed them. Also read the series about the end of the Butlerian Jihad and then the final two books closing off the original series.
They then started writing books set in between the first few books of the original series but I lost interest half way through the second one. Elements of milking the cash-cow dry.

Agreed with all this.

Currently reading the last of the Bas-Lag books The Iron Council by China Mieville. Fantastci books. Also, for those who want something a bit light-hearted, check out the Iron Druid Chronicles by Kevin Hearn. And for some good sci-fi, The Stars Now Unclaimed is a fantastci first effort by Drew Williams.

Huge Mieville fan. Have a signed first edition hard cover copy of The Scar. Perdido Street Station is one of my all time favourites.

He creates an amazing world but he struggles with the story part really. The ending of the Scar was a massive disappointment. Iron Council had some incredible bits but it was a bit uneven.

Slake moth is one of the most nightmareish creations of all time though.

Uncle Fester wrote:He creates an amazing world but he struggles with the story part really. The ending of the Scar was a massive disappointment. Iron Council had some incredible bits but it was a bit uneven.

Slake moth is one of the most nightmareish creations of all time though.

China Mieville leaves me cold - his characters and plot are always subservient to his (admittedly very clever) conceits. It results in stories that leave you in admiration of the idea, without really giving much of a shit about any of the vehicles used to deliver it.

ukjim wrote:Hipster sci-fi...

harsh, but succinct.