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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 am 
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15. Will Jordan
14. Sevu Reece
13. Reiko Ioane
12. Jack Goodhue
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Aaron Cruden
9. Aaron Smith

8. Marino Mikaele-Tu'u
7. Dalton Papali'i
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Codie Tayor
1. Joe Moody

Notable Omissions: Hoskins Sotutu, Sean Wainui, Mark Telea, Mitch Hunt

Player of the Week: Will Jordan

Dane Coles Awars: Scott Gregory


Last edited by Ali's Choice on Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:46 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
15. Will Jordan
14. Sean Wainui
13. Reiko Ioane
12. Jack Goodhue
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Aaron Cruden
9. Aaron Smith

8. Marino Mikaele-Tu'u
7. Dalton Papali'i
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Codie Tayor
1. Joe Moody

Notable Omissions: Hoskins Sotutu, Sean Wainui, Mark Telea, Mitch Hunt

Player of the Week: Will Jordan

Dane Coles Awars: Scott Gregory


Hmmm

Agree with team, except I think Mitch Hunt edges out Cruden.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:48 am 
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Auckman wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
15. Will Jordan
14. Sean Wainui
13. Reiko Ioane
12. Jack Goodhue
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Aaron Cruden
9. Aaron Smith

8. Marino Mikaele-Tu'u
7. Dalton Papali'i
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Codie Tayor
1. Joe Moody

Notable Omissions: Hoskins Sotutu, Sean Wainui, Mark Telea, Mitch Hunt

Player of the Week: Will Jordan

Dane Coles Awars: Scott Gregory


Hmmm

Agree with team, except I think Mitch Hunt edges out Cruden.


fixed, Reece was my 14 because Wainui plays 11.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:26 am 
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Probably only one you could have a debate about is first five. And you could honestly make a case for all four starting first fives. All played well but had a few negatives.
If you also had a constant wanker of the week it would just about always go to Reiko Ioane. Great player but why does he always have to act like a little girl throwing her tantrum toys over sweet all.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:30 am 
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Roadman wrote:
Probably only one you could have a debate about is first five. And you could honestly make a case for all four starting first fives. All played well but had a few negatives.
If you also had a constant wanker of the week it would just about always go to Reiko Ioane. Great player but why does he always have to act like a little girl throwing her tantrum toys over sweet all.


He's a bellend. But he's our bellend.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:41 am 
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Can’t agree with your 9 & 10 pairing.

Either of today’s 9s did a better job than Snecky managed last night, bearing in mind the conditions demanded more of them and both were influential in their team performances... the obvious blight being Webber’s petulance costing the team a try when they allowed themselves to be distracted.

I don’t see that Cruden was that much better... Otere Black steered a dominant Blues around the park well last night while Cruden managed to kick it a long way. I disagree with your statement about Cruden and Mo’unga in the match thread... I thought Mo’unga was fine in difficult conditions and his runs with the ball in hand were always a threat, with that one long range break almost netting him a try. His kicking was fine with one error being an attempted kick pass that went out.

Finally... Brad Webber has a very large head on him. It’s a massive melon of a thing, a veritable scone to carry around and you have to wonder if it affects his balance, especially in the wet.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:39 am 
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I wondered about black not being mentioned but I didn’t see today’s game so can’t really comment.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:19 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
15. Will Jordan
14. Sevu Reece
13. Reiko Ioane
12. Jack Goodhue
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Aaron Cruden
9. Aaron Smith

8. Marino Mikaele-Tu'u
7. Dalton Papali'i
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Codie Tayor
1. Joe Moody

Notable Omissions: Hoskins Sotutu, Sean Wainui, Mark Telea, Mitch Hunt

Player of the Week: Will Jordan

Dane Coles Awars: Scott Gregory

Pretty well agree with it all, I understand the Wainui call, but he is a left wing, and Clarke was better in that position. I also thought Black was good and although he steered a winning pack around well, a lot of the real good positional kicks from penalties and out of hand were actually done by BB, so helped take pressure off him.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:25 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Can’t agree with your 9 & 10 pairing.

Either of today’s 9s did a better job than Snecky managed last night, bearing in mind the conditions demanded more of them and both were influential in their team performances... the obvious blight being Webber’s petulance costing the team a try when they allowed themselves to be distracted.

I don’t see that Cruden was that much better... Otere Black steered a dominant Blues around the park well last night while Cruden managed to kick it a long way. I disagree with your statement about Cruden and Mo’unga in the match thread... I thought Mo’unga was fine in difficult conditions and his runs with the ball in hand were always a threat, with that one long range break almost netting him a try. His kicking was fine with one error being an attempted kick pass that went out.

Finally... Brad Webber has a very large head on him. It’s a massive melon of a thing, a veritable scone to carry around and you have to wonder if it affects his balance, especially in the wet.


Your critiques are not without merit.

With regards to Mo'unga, I guess I just expected more from him. I've been a passionate supporter of his for many years and I felt that this match was the perfect opportunity to show the world how much he has developed as a player, especially coming up against Cruden. I wanted him to control the match more effectively with long kicking. He has a great long kicking game but sometimes is reluctant to use it aside from when kicking for touch from a penalty. I picked Cruden in this team because I felt he controlled territory for his team more effectively. And the kick pass you mentioned was really galling because it came at a time when we were under the pump and working desperately hard to repel a resurgent Chiefs team. I would expect that kick pass from Beauden Barrett or Damien McKenzie, not Richie Mo'unga. Not at that crucial time of the match.

I agree that Bryn Hall was good, and could easily have made this XV. I wasn't that impressed with Black this week, I thought he was okay, but like Mo'unga he went missing in the 2nd half when his team needed him to step up.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:34 am 
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Mo'unga overuses the cross-kick imo. It surprises me how effective it continues to be when it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone by now (and Reece, for all his enthusiasm, is hardly the king of the skies on the wing).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:39 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Mo'unga overuses the cross-kick imo. It surprises me how effective it continues to be when it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone by now (and Reece, for all his enthusiasm, is hardly the king of the skies on the wing).


Yes, he does. It’s a refreshing change though, to see a top level NZ first five kick it sideways instead of running it :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:58 am 
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With Clarke coming through and lots options, George Bridge is toast for the ABs. I am still amazed that he was a starting wing at the WC. A good Soup player but not an AB quality player.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:45 pm 
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Masterji wrote:
With Clarke coming through and lots options, George Bridge is toast for the ABs. I am still amazed that he was a starting wing at the WC. A good Soup player but not an AB quality player.


With all due respect, this is a dumb, revisionist post. George Bridge earned his AB spot through consistently excellent performances for the Crusaders. He scored bucketloads of tries, and was safe as houses under the high ball. He cemented his AB spot with excellent performances at test level. And was helped by his main rival, Reiko Ioane, losing all his form and confidence. If you're "amazed" how George Bridge became our starting no.11 then you either didn't watch any SR or test rugby in 2019 or you're an idiot.

Caleb Clarke has had a promising start to the season, but can we please hold off on the cyber reach-arounds for a while? The posters who are demanding Clarke be an AB winger are the same people who were squealing for Ben Lam to be our starting 11 last year, and the year before. We are only three games into Super Rugby Aotearoa, let's see how Clarke is playing in a month's time before we start sizing his All Black tracksuit up. Being a test winger requires a lot more than being able to run fast and score tries. And I'm sure Ian Foster will want to see how well Clarke defends, kicks and most importantly kick receives under pressure before selecting him as a starting winger.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:48 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Mo'unga overuses the cross-kick imo. It surprises me how effective it continues to be when it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone by now (and Reece, for all his enthusiasm, is hardly the king of the skies on the wing).


I don't think he over-uses it all. His strike rate for scoring tries, or re-securing possession, is phenomenal.Yesterday was the first time in Mo'unga's entire senior career that I felt he shouldn't have tried one when he did. As for your sarcastic comment about Sevu Reece, he's easily the best attacking kick receiving winger in NZ. And his kick reception that led to Will Jordan's first try yesterday essentially won us the match.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:00 pm 
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I agree with Guy:

Snecky out. However, nor was I that impressed by Weber, rather messy by his high standards. So that leaves either of their opposition.

Otere Black in. Was easily the most polished of the 1st 5's on offer over the weekend.

If not Black, then Mounga.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:08 pm 
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Ted. wrote:
I agree with Guy:

Snecky out. However, nor was I that impressed by Weber, rather messy by his high standards. So that leaves either of their opposition.

Otere Black in. Was easily the most polished of the 1st 5's on offer over the weekend.


In fairness to Webber, having to manage the weight of his enormous head must have an effect on his performance, not to mention the air resistance when running.

I didn’t want to suggest a Crusader player because it would invite shrill cries of bias from the likes of acknowledged National Party shill Booji Boy, but I thought Bryn Hall did a good job in difficult conditions... so well in fact as to be almost invisible in the finest of traditions :nod:

Drummond offers serious impact off the bench and I think they have the mix right with that pairing for now. Last season they alternated the two off the bench with reasonable results... so anyway, Hall in for Snecky.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:10 pm 
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Upon reflection, Sam Nock was probably a bit unlucky not to be named as halfback for this team. He controled the game well and his kicking was good. Weber has been off the boil for this comp, but we are only three matches in and he's been a class performer over a long period of time.

Does anyone else agree that the new referee interpretations at the breakdown have killed the contest at the ruck? And Lachlan Bosher's ability to snaffle possession has been made completely redundant. Prior to COVID-19 he was winning breakdown turnovers for fun, and he was playing himself into AB contention. Three weeks into this comp he hasn't won a single breakdown turnover and his key skillset has been completely nullified. In saying that, he'd previously been allowed to get away with murder to effect those pilfers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:22 pm 
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Yeah, Nock had a good game. :thumbup:

There were several effective turnovers at the breakdown yesterday mate, I don’t think the tactic has been killed off. If anything play seems to have quickened as an outcome with the ball coming back into play faster. The wet obviously played a large part yesterday which possibly obscured the reality.

How good is it being able to talk rugby again? I couldn’t watch up at work, the rugby is the one Foxtel channel suffering terrible reception in the desert :roll: but this weekend on break I was able to plant myself and focus fully. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:14 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Can’t agree with your 9 & 10 pairing.

Either of today’s 9s did a better job than Snecky managed last night, bearing in mind the conditions demanded more of them and both were influential in their team performances... the obvious blight being Webber’s petulance costing the team a try when they allowed themselves to be distracted.

I don’t see that Cruden was that much better... Otere Black steered a dominant Blues around the park well last night while Cruden managed to kick it a long way. I disagree with your statement about Cruden and Mo’unga in the match thread... I thought Mo’unga was fine in difficult conditions and his runs with the ball in hand were always a threat, with that one long range break almost netting him a try. His kicking was fine with one error being an attempted kick pass that went out.

Finally... Brad Webber has a very large head on him. It’s a massive melon of a thing, a veritable scone to carry around and you have to wonder if it affects his balance, especially in the wet.

An oversized cranium.
An orange on a toothpick.
Sputnik.
Got its own Solar system.
He'll be crying himself to sleep in his huge pilla.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:14 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Mo'unga overuses the cross-kick imo. It surprises me how effective it continues to be when it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone by now (and Reece, for all his enthusiasm, is hardly the king of the skies on the wing).


I don't think he over-uses it all. His strike rate for scoring tries, or re-securing possession, is phenomenal.Yesterday was the first time in Mo'unga's entire senior career that I felt he shouldn't have tried one when he did. As for your sarcastic comment about Sevu Reece, he's easily the best attacking kick receiving winger in NZ. And his kick reception that led to Will Jordan's first try yesterday essentially won us the match.


His strike rate is very good, and it surprises me how good it continues to be (as I said). The number of times Reece is unmarked wide on the wing for the kick is uncanny. It’s embarrassing how coaches haven’t figured it out yet. For a conservative option, all you need to do is have the defender ball-and-all tackle Reece into touch. Even if he stays in play you are unlikely to have sacrificed much ground and Reece is isolated. I think England did this in the semi?

And it wasn’t a dig at Reece Ali, it was a compliment. He has a lot of enthusiasm and it gets him a long way but he’s no Folau is he? When I think of the players I’d back under the high ball, Reece is t near the top.

As for mounga over using it, take off the eye patch. I still remember a cross field kick against the jaguares from his own 22 which was turned over and allowed the jaguares to pressure the line early in a super rugby final. I remember it as I was shocked he had tried it. The crusaders didn’t have breathing room either. If the jaguares got that early try, it could have been a very different game.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:18 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Ted. wrote:
I agree with Guy:

Snecky out. However, nor was I that impressed by Weber, rather messy by his high standards. So that leaves either of their opposition.

Otere Black in. Was easily the most polished of the 1st 5's on offer over the weekend.


In fairness to Webber, having to manage the weight of his enormous head must have an effect on his performance, not to mention the air resistance when running.

I didn’t want to suggest a Crusader player because it would invite shrill cries of bias from the likes of acknowledged National Party shill Booji Boy, but I thought Bryn Hall did a good job in difficult conditions... so well in fact as to be almost invisible in the finest of traditions :nod:

Drummond offers serious impact off the bench and I think they have the mix right with that pairing for now. Last season they alternated the two off the bench with reasonable results... so anyway, Hall in for Snecky.

Look, you can't have a post where you mention the size of Weber's head and not the everything about Drummmonds strange noggin.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:19 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
As for mounga over using it, take off the eye patch. I still remember a cross field kick against the jaguares from his own 22 which was turned over and allowed the jaguares to pressure the line early in a super rugby final. I remember it as I was shocked he had tried it. The crusaders didn’t have breathing room either. If the jaguares got that early try, it could have been a very different game.


I thought you would stop trolling Mo'unga now that Barrett had left the Hurricanes. There is no need for you to engage in Barrett vs Mo'unga shitfights about who is a better option for the All Black no.10 jersey. You do realise that BB is not coming back to the Hurricanes, yeah? Or are you laying some groundwork for advocating for Jackson Garden-Bachop to be considered for higher honours?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:33 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Ted. wrote:
I agree with Guy:

Snecky out. However, nor was I that impressed by Weber, rather messy by his high standards. So that leaves either of their opposition.

Otere Black in. Was easily the most polished of the 1st 5's on offer over the weekend.


In fairness to Webber, having to manage the weight of his enormous head must have an effect on his performance, not to mention the air resistance when running.

I didn’t want to suggest a Crusader player because it would invite shrill cries of bias from the likes of acknowledged National Party shill Booji Boy, but I thought Bryn Hall did a good job in difficult conditions... so well in fact as to be almost invisible in the finest of traditions :nod:

Drummond offers serious impact off the bench and I think they have the mix right with that pairing for now. Last season they alternated the two off the bench with reasonable results... so anyway, Hall in for Snecky.

Look, you can't have a post where you mention the size of Weber's head and not the everything about Drummmonds strange noggin.


Oh, I’m not avoiding the topic... I mean, that would be impossible, right? I just didn’t think I could fit both heads into one post. It’s a matter of physics, not to mention natural aberrations. What happened to Drummond as a child, do you think? Found chewing on a fence post and whacked upside the head with it for punishment?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:36 am 
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Every time I see Mitch Drummond I think of the Sherminator in American Pie.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:38 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
As for mounga over using it, take off the eye patch. I still remember a cross field kick against the jaguares from his own 22 which was turned over and allowed the jaguares to pressure the line early in a super rugby final. I remember it as I was shocked he had tried it. The crusaders didn’t have breathing room either. If the jaguares got that early try, it could have been a very different game.


I thought you would stop trolling Mo'unga now that Barrett had left the Hurricanes. There is no need for you to engage in Barrett vs Mo'unga shitfights about who is a better option for the All Black no.10 jersey. You do realise that BB is not coming back to the Hurricanes, yeah? Or are you laying some groundwork for advocating for Jackson Garden-Bachop to be considered for higher honours?


Nice straw man.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:39 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
As for mounga over using it, take off the eye patch. I still remember a cross field kick against the jaguares from his own 22 which was turned over and allowed the jaguares to pressure the line early in a super rugby final. I remember it as I was shocked he had tried it. The crusaders didn’t have breathing room either. If the jaguares got that early try, it could have been a very different game.


I thought you would stop trolling Mo'unga now that Barrett had left the Hurricanes. There is no need for you to engage in Barrett vs Mo'unga shitfights about who is a better option for the All Black no.10 jersey. You do realise that BB is not coming back to the Hurricanes, yeah? Or are you laying some groundwork for advocating for Jackson Garden-Bachop to be considered for higher honours?


Nice straw man.


I thought so.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:48 am 
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AC, I rate mounga very highly. But I legit think he overuses the cross kick considering it’s a high risk play and for most teams something of a desperation move. The fact that guy agrees and you don’t surprises me somewhat. I thought it would be the other way around.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:56 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
AC, I rate mounga very highly. But I legit think he overuses the cross kick considering it’s a high risk play and for most teams something of a desperation move. The fact that guy agrees and you don’t surprises me somewhat. I thought it would be the other way around.


If it has a high payoff rate, why on earth would he not continue to use it?

You'd only put it away if the opposition had worked it out, which they haven't.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:56 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
AC, I rate mounga very highly. But I legit think he overuses the cross kick considering it’s a high risk play and for most teams something of a desperation move. The fact that guy agrees and you don’t surprises me somewhat. I thought it would be the other way around.


I agree he overused it once yesterday. That kick should never have been attempted given the position on the field and the game situation.

I disagree that he overuses it more generally because they only attempt it when the opposing winger has drifted in field. They don't do it when Reece is being marked closely.

So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:59 am 
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jdogscoop wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
AC, I rate mounga very highly. But I legit think he overuses the cross kick considering it’s a high risk play and for most teams something of a desperation move. The fact that guy agrees and you don’t surprises me somewhat. I thought it would be the other way around.


If it has a high payoff rate, why on earth would he not continue to use it?

You'd only put it away if the opposition had worked it out, which they haven't.


Moreover, it is actually a tactic to spread the defensive line. Every time Mo'unga does it, even when it doesn't result in a try or regained possession, it forces the opposing backline to keep their winger wide meaning they cannot employ the typical condensed defensive system which pro-Rugby teams favour. This then creates more space in the midfield. So it's not just about the kick pass itself, it's what that does to the defending backline.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:36 am 
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Agree to disagree :thumbup: Completely agree that it stretches the defence though by adding another attacking possibility. It’s why halfbacks need to run it sometimes.

Jdog, you don’t want to wait for the opposition to catch up with your strategies. The ABs did this with England.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:13 am 
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Ted. wrote:
I agree with Guy:

Snecky out.


Snecky was fantastic on the weekend. Consistently raising the bar of the relatively mediocre backs around him, fizzing out passes quicker than anyone in the game, winning crucial counter-rucks against players twice his size FFS.

Smith will be the starting AB whenever test rugby starts again, no doubt.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:20 pm 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Every time I see Mitch Drummond I think of the Sherminator in American Pie.

Image


Nope.











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