Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

[CM11]

So Red C has :

FG 34% + 13% from election
SF 28% + 3%
FF 18% - 4%
Ind. 5% -7%
Grn. 5% -2%

The others all bubbling around 2-3 %.

Interesting that the centre vote seems to be consolidating around FG rather FF.

Pleased to see both Independents and Greens go down.

Disappointed to see the SF vote increase.

I'm actually not sure why we're being given a poll result. It's meaningless right now. About the only relevant question is whether people think the government are doing a good job.

[paddyor]

I'm being very optimistic but looking at elsewhere I think we've enacted measures a couple of days before anywhere else for every major measure (I know the UK locked down before us but they'd done little up till then) and I'm really hoping that will show through in 2 weeks time. I can't see us going back to the old normal then but I do see us going back to what we had a week ago in 2 weeks and what we had 4 weeks ago in 4 weeks (with the now normal advice on isolation and physical distancing).

Fingers crossed.

At a guess I’d say a minimum of a month of this followed by another month of previous to lockdown.

It's the two weeks, whilst the Nursing Home surge goes through, and if we've managed that, they'll loosen the restrictions to what we had previously.

Anyway, EIN 9019 is in the air over Northern Russia due to land in Dublin at 3.30 pm.

Hopefully it's better stuff than the spanish, the Czechs and the Dutch got.

[camroc1]

I'm being very optimistic but looking at elsewhere I think we've enacted measures a couple of days before anywhere else for every major measure (I know the UK locked down before us but they'd done little up till then) and I'm really hoping that will show through in 2 weeks time. I can't see us going back to the old normal then but I do see us going back to what we had a week ago in 2 weeks and what we had 4 weeks ago in 4 weeks (with the now normal advice on isolation and physical distancing).

Fingers crossed.

At a guess I’d say a minimum of a month of this followed by another month of previous to lockdown.

It's the two weeks, whilst the Nursing Home surge goes through, and if we've managed that, they'll loosen the restrictions to what we had previously.

Anyway, EIN 9019 is in the air over Northern Russia due to land in Dublin at 3.30 pm.

Hopefully it's better stuff than the spanish, the Czechs and the Dutch got.

Allegedly bought direct in the marketplace, rather than through the Chinese government. Allegedly.

[paddyor]

Some of the experts thing the 2m distancing rule is a bit of a joke, should be minimum 3m as it is in Sweden. I was thinking about it this morning and reckon that currently the biggest areas for spread are probably the supermarkets - we need to think about forcing them to go fully click and collect.

How the fudge would you know? You haven't been to a supermarket in about 3 weeks.

[alliswell]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

[camroc1]

ICU and ventilator situation in Ireland.

The State’s highest-ranking healthcare officials, at a briefing on Sunday morning, said there were up to 1,200 ICU beds in the country’s public and private hospitals. But they were unable to say by how much ICU capacity in the system could be exceeded by in a surge of severe Covid-19 infections.

The HSE said that no single ICU unit in an Irish hospital had reached capacity yet. But HSE chief executive Paul Reid told RTÉ in an interview after the briefing that the possibility of existing ICU beds being full in just over two weeks was “a very significant concern.”

There are currently 88 critically ill patients with Covid-19 in ICU beds, of which 66 per cent are in Dublin hospitals. This is almost a seven-fold increase in the past 10 days.

The rapid increase in the number of sick patients needing ICU beds was one of the reasons why the Government directed people to “stay at home” with a range of new restrictions last Friday.

There are close to 500 dedicated ICU beds in the public and private hospitals, Mr Reid told a briefing as the HSE unveiled a new facility in Citywest, west Dublin that could accommodate more than 1,000 people needing care during the pandemic.

He said that the public health system had 1,000 ventilators - essential life-saving medical devices to keep people alive as they fight Covid-19 - and another 200 to 300 in the State’s private hospitals.

The HSE has secured a further 300 ventilators and would be “securing” a further 100 a week over the coming weeks, said Mr Reid.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.4215029

[Evil_G]

The State’s highest-ranking healthcare officials, at a briefing on Sunday morning, said there were up to 1,200 ICU beds in the country’s public and private hospitals.

There are close to 500 dedicated ICU beds in the public and private hospitals, Mr Reid told a briefing as the HSE unveiled a new facility in Citywest, west Dublin that could accommodate more than 1,000 people needing care during the pandemic.

Which is it?

[camroc1]

The State’s highest-ranking healthcare officials, at a briefing on Sunday morning, said there were up to 1,200 ICU beds in the country’s public and private hospitals.

There are close to 500 dedicated ICU beds in the public and private hospitals, Mr Reid told a briefing as the HSE unveiled a new facility in Citywest, west Dublin that could accommodate more than 1,000 people needing care during the pandemic.

Which is it?

I think the word "dedicated" means those in ICU units normally, and I think, and am open to correction, that 1200 is the current number, encompassing the 500 "dedicated" ICU beds plus another 700 beds in various hospitals, that they've been able to fit out as ICU beds. This has been facilitated by the additional thousand non ICU, ie ordinary hospital, beds that have been set up in Citywest.


That's my reading of it anyway.

[Duff Paddy]

Some of the experts thing the 2m distancing rule is a bit of a joke, should be minimum 3m as it is in Sweden. I was thinking about it this morning and reckon that currently the biggest areas for spread are probably the supermarkets - we need to think about forcing them to go fully click and collect.

How the fudge would you know? You haven't been to a supermarket in about 3 weeks.

Bizarre post. How would you know? I think you need to start reading what is actually posted as opposed to getting upset and making silly replies.

[alliswell]

I think repurposed operating theatres are where the extra 700 capacity is found.

[Duff Paddy]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

Yep I gather in Sweden it’s almost all click and collect, with pre payment made in advance online. The idea of being able to minimise exposure inside a traditional lay out shop is not practical in most cases. I think for the safety of their staff, and to minimise the risk of exposure, we need to think about different approaches where possible

[de_Selby]

Tesco click and collect is booked up out to 2 weeks+ away now in all the stores even vaguely nearby.

Are any of the other shops doing similar services? Lidl and Aldi's websites are just a series of ads as far as I can see

[camroc1]

I think repurposed operating theatres are where the extra 700 capacity is found.

Of course, they've used operating theatres and their prep rooms etc, but that wouldn't account for all the 700, I'd say. They've probably repurposed other beds as well.

[Duff Paddy]

Some of the experts thing the 2m distancing rule is a bit of a joke, should be minimum 3m as it is in Sweden. I was thinking about it this morning and reckon that currently the biggest areas for spread are probably the supermarkets - we need to think about forcing them to go fully click and collect.

Dunno if we need to go that far, and doubt they have the infrastructure to cope with that. However there are a few simple things they could do to improve matters:
- make everyone done gloves at entry AND dispose of gloves at exit
- put markers on floor, and on ground outside indicating 2m distances (I note a lot more doing this now)
- put some visual cues on the floor to promote people taking a particular route around the store - basically a one way system, with identified stopping points where people should wait if there are more than X (depending on space) people in the aisle

Amazed at the chicken vs fish thing - definitely in conflict with what I observe in eating habits of most I know, and what I see in terms of volume of food on supermarket shelves and in trolleys.

Yeah it won’t be possible in all cases, and some supermarkets are doing more than others - even within the same chains. I limit my trips to the shops to one per week max, and not even that if I can avoid it. My last trip was to a SuperValu and it was very disappointing. Nobody limiting entry at the door, no hand sanitiser at the door, nobody spraying down the trolleys, still had the promotional items in between aisles so impossible to keep 2m distance, shelve stackers all over the place, no masks or gloves. Basically the only thing they had done differently was a plastic screen for the cashier, who was still handling cash and offered me cash back The worst thing about it was that the shop was full of little old ladies going around as normal with a basket with just a few things in it. I was so angry leaving - they just didn’t realise the risk they were taking because the government advice was that it was okay to go to the shop. I think the supermarkets have to do more to protect this high risk group and avoid them entering the shop at all.

[Duff Paddy]

Tesco click and collect is booked up out to 2 weeks+ away now in all the stores even vaguely nearby.

Are any of the other shops doing similar services? Lidl and Aldi's websites are just a series of ads as far as I can see

Just Tesco and supervalu as far as I know. A lot of the local get fresh green grocers and the local butchers are doing delivery if you phone them.

[lorcanoworms]

How did it taste?

When doing diy sometimes you might get a bit of sawdust in your mouth? so much for me as a survivalist.

[de_Selby]

Tesco click and collect is booked up out to 2 weeks+ away now in all the stores even vaguely nearby.

Are any of the other shops doing similar services? Lidl and Aldi's websites are just a series of ads as far as I can see

Just Tesco and supervalu as far as I know. A lot of the local get fresh green grocers and the local butchers are doing delivery if you phone them.

Yeah SuperValu is worse, their website only has dates out to 2 weeks in future, you can only pick one date at a time, and they are all full anyway

Most Tescos are nearly 3 weeks before there's any availability

[danthefan]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

Yep I gather in Sweden it’s almost all click and collect, with pre payment made in advance online. The idea of being able to minimise exposure inside a traditional lay out shop is not practical in most cases. I think for the safety of their staff, and to minimise the risk of exposure, we need to think about different approaches where possible

The pubs are still open in Sweden ffs

[lorcanoworms]

Looking through the cupboard this morning for stuff to use up, saw some porridge in a tupperware tub.
Put brown sugar on it left it to soak and later put it in the microwave.
Probably will not mistake breadcrumbs for porridge again.

Hope it doesn't make you ill - breadcumbs can go off very fast! Good time to have stocked up on toilet rolls!

The wife spent ages making it for her own home made stuffing for todays Chicken, sick of chicken

[Duff Paddy]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

Yep I gather in Sweden it’s almost all click and collect, with pre payment made in advance online. The idea of being able to minimise exposure inside a traditional lay out shop is not practical in most cases. I think for the safety of their staff, and to minimise the risk of exposure, we need to think about different approaches where possible

The pubs are still open in Sweden ffs

Oh you got me. Doesn’t explain their fatality numbers - unless their approach is to not officially force places to close but to rely on a society to be responsible for themselves. Pubs are optional, food shopping not so much. I don’t know enough about what’s going on there but the report I read from one person was that they are really sticking to strict social distancing for the most part

[iarmhiman]

Lads look at the situation in India.

Millions will die from the virus there.

[DeDoc]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

Yep I gather in Sweden it’s almost all click and collect, with pre payment made in advance online. The idea of being able to minimise exposure inside a traditional lay out shop is not practical in most cases. I think for the safety of their staff, and to minimise the risk of exposure, we need to think about different approaches where possible

The pubs are still open in Sweden ffs

Oh you got me. Doesn’t explain their fatality numbers - unless their approach is to not officially force places to close but to rely on a society to be responsible for themselves. Pubs are optional, food shopping not so much. I don’t know enough about what’s going on there but the report I read from one person was that they are really sticking to strict social distancing for the most part

I'm not quite following the Swedish thing either, unless they happen to have a shit-ton of ICU beds and are waiting till they really need to bring the hammer down to do so. Lesson from everywhere else suggests you're going to have to do it, so probably better to get it done early.

Just looking at some figures - as of 25th March they had tested about 25K people with ~10% positive. They have 3460 cases as of yesterday, with 112 dead. 10 Million population and wikipedia says they have 58 beds/million population - less than we do

[henry]

Lads look at the situation in India.

Millions will die from the virus there.

When this fecking thing hits the developing world, it’s going to get grim and grim fast. And possibly for a prolonged period of time.

[DeDoc]

Lads look at the situation in India.

Millions will die from the virus there.

Given the population density and poverty, it could be horrific. Saw a video online earlier from a bus station in Mumbai. Even pre-Covid I'd have been freaked by the crowding.

[iarmhiman]

Lads look at the situation in India.

Millions will die from the virus there.

When this fecking thing hits the developing world, it’s going to get grim and grim fast. And possibly for a prolonged period of time.

It's going to be a massive cull of the human population until we have a vaccine. So 2 years likely

[ticketlessinseattle]

Some of the experts thing the 2m distancing rule is a bit of a joke, should be minimum 3m as it is in Sweden. I was thinking about it this morning and reckon that currently the biggest areas for spread are probably the supermarkets - we need to think about forcing them to go fully click and collect.

Missus was saying someone on the radio asking people to limit ordering on line as shops cant cope and its denying elderly, vulnerable from getting slots, not sure about click and collect with 100,00s lining up for unemployment there should be a way to connect the dots. As an aside anyone see that clip from Czech Republic which has very few cases which they're attributing to everyone wearing masks ? Everyone in China also wear them but we,ve convinced ourselves that having material covering your mouth does nothing to stop the spread...exceptional you're a doctor or health care worker, granted they have or should have high quality masks but are we missing a trick here ?

[Duff Paddy]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

Yep I gather in Sweden it’s almost all click and collect, with pre payment made in advance online. The idea of being able to minimise exposure inside a traditional lay out shop is not practical in most cases. I think for the safety of their staff, and to minimise the risk of exposure, we need to think about different approaches where possible

The pubs are still open in Sweden ffs

Oh you got me. Doesn’t explain their fatality numbers - unless their approach is to not officially force places to close but to rely on a society to be responsible for themselves. Pubs are optional, food shopping not so much. I don’t know enough about what’s going on there but the report I read from one person was that they are really sticking to strict social distancing for the most part

I'm not quite following the Swedish thing either, unless they happen to have a shit-ton of ICU beds and are waiting till they really need to bring the hammer down to do so. Lesson from everywhere else suggests you're going to have to do it, so probably better to get it done early.

Just looking at some figures - as of 25th March they had tested about 25K people with ~10% positive. They have 3460 cases as of yesterday, with 112 dead. 10 Million population and wikipedia says they have 58 beds/million population - less than we do

I was shocked by that stat too. They have way more consultants per capita than us - by a ridiculous factor is some specialties so I expected them to have much more capacity. Interesting that their society is almost the opposite of the Italy system - I wonder how much of an effect that will have.

[Lenny]

Just heard from a Consultant friend that wef tomorrow that al Consultants will be on the new public only contracts that the government had proposed. He didn’t know if this was a permanent change or for the period of the crisis, although what difference it makes now when no private medicine is being practised in the hospitals is anyone’s guess. This is an imposed rather than agreed step.

[Conspicuous]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

Yep I gather in Sweden it’s almost all click and collect, with pre payment made in advance online. The idea of being able to minimise exposure inside a traditional lay out shop is not practical in most cases. I think for the safety of their staff, and to minimise the risk of exposure, we need to think about different approaches where possible

The pubs are still open in Sweden ffs

Yeah Sweden is actually one of the least restrictive European countries to be living in at the moment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... try-sweden

[Duff Paddy]

Some of the experts thing the 2m distancing rule is a bit of a joke, should be minimum 3m as it is in Sweden. I was thinking about it this morning and reckon that currently the biggest areas for spread are probably the supermarkets - we need to think about forcing them to go fully click and collect.

Missus was saying someone on the radio asking people to limit ordering on line as shops cant cope and its denying elderly, vulnerable from getting slots, not sure about click and collect with 100,00s lining up for unemployment there should be a way to connect the dots. As an aside anyone see that clip from Czech Republic which has very few cases which they're attributing to everyone wearing masks ? Everyone in China also wear them but we,ve convinced ourselves that having material covering your mouth does nothing to stop the spread...exceptional you're a doctor or health care worker, granted they have or should have high quality masks but are we missing a trick here ?

It has been studied and they think that wearing a normal fabric surgical mask does have a small effect it it is adopted wide scale in a society. If nothing else it probably stops you touching your face as much. It also probably sends a sightly subconscious signal out to others that you are to be avoided, or at least to be kept a distance from. That said, we know how big the virus is and if you want to filter that out effectively you need an FFP3 mask that has been fit tested. The effective lifespan of these masks is the matter of some debate but if you’re trying to get a full day out of it, pulling it up and down to eat, then it probably will be contaminated.

[Duff Paddy]

Just heard from a Consultant friend that wef tomorrow that al Consultants will be on the new public only contracts that the government had proposed. He didn’t know if this was a permanent change or for the period of the crisis, although what difference it makes now when no private medicine is being practised in the hospitals is anyone’s guess. This is an imposed rather than agreed step.

Yep that’s happened to everyone working in the private hospitals

[Duff Paddy]

Lads look at the situation in India.

Millions will die from the virus there.

When this fecking thing hits the developing world, it’s going to get grim and grim fast. And possibly for a prolonged period of time.

[Leinsterman]

Some of the experts thing the 2m distancing rule is a bit of a joke, should be minimum 3m as it is in Sweden. I was thinking about it this morning and reckon that currently the biggest areas for spread are probably the supermarkets - we need to think about forcing them to go fully click and collect.

Dunno if we need to go that far, and doubt they have the infrastructure to cope with that. However there are a few simple things they could do to improve matters:
- make everyone done gloves at entry AND dispose of gloves at exit
- put markers on floor, and on ground outside indicating 2m distances (I note a lot more doing this now)
- put some visual cues on the floor to promote people taking a particular route around the store - basically a one way system, with identified stopping points where people should wait if there are more than X (depending on space) people in the aisle

Amazed at the chicken vs fish thing - definitely in conflict with what I observe in eating habits of most I know, and what I see in terms of volume of food on supermarket shelves and in trolleys.

Yeah it won’t be possible in all cases, and some supermarkets are doing more than others - even within the same chains. I limit my trips to the shops to one per week max, and not even that if I can avoid it. My last trip was to a SuperValu and it was very disappointing. Nobody limiting entry at the door, no hand sanitiser at the door, nobody spraying down the trolleys, still had the promotional items in between aisles so impossible to keep 2m distance, shelve stackers all over the place, no masks or gloves. Basically the only thing they had done differently was a plastic screen for the cashier, who was still handling cash and offered me cash back The worst thing about it was that the shop was full of little old ladies going around as normal with a basket with just a few things in it. I was so angry leaving - they just didn’t realise the risk they were taking because the government advice was that it was okay to go to the shop. I think the supermarkets have to do more to protect this high risk group and avoid them entering the shop at all.

SuperValu in Lucan brought in social distancing, sanitising, limitign customers etc exactly two weeks ago. Well ahead if the curve.
I was in SV in Deansgrange earlier and they have cleaning stations just inside the door and are limiting the numbers coming in. Bloody place is pokey as anything though. Narrow aisles etc

[DeDoc]

Some of the experts thing the 2m distancing rule is a bit of a joke, should be minimum 3m as it is in Sweden. I was thinking about it this morning and reckon that currently the biggest areas for spread are probably the supermarkets - we need to think about forcing them to go fully click and collect.

Missus was saying someone on the radio asking people to limit ordering on line as shops cant cope and its denying elderly, vulnerable from getting slots, not sure about click and collect with 100,00s lining up for unemployment there should be a way to connect the dots. As an aside anyone see that clip from Czech Republic which has very few cases which they're attributing to everyone wearing masks ? Everyone in China also wear them but we,ve convinced ourselves that having material covering your mouth does nothing to stop the spread...exceptional you're a doctor or health care worker, granted they have or should have high quality masks but are we missing a trick here ?

It has been studied and they think that wearing a normal fabric surgical mask does have a small effect it it is adopted wide scale in a society. If nothing else it probably stops you touching your face as much. It also probably sends a sightly subconscious signal out to others that you are to be avoided, or at least to be kept a distance from. That said, we know how big the virus is and if you want to filter that out effectively you need an FFP3 mask that has been fit tested. The effective lifespan of these masks is the matter of some debate but if you’re trying to get a full day out of it, pulling it up and down to eat, then it probably will be contaminated.

Any precaution is only going to be as strong as its weakest link. For most people that is apparently hand hygiene. Masks are definitely good at stopping exhalation of droplets - so (potentially) infected people wearing them would be a big plus. Any kind of mask - even a t-shirt or scarf gives you some protection. There was a Cambridge study in 2017 that looked comparing DIY masks against surgical grade
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ndemic#pf7

They tested two particle sizes (one was significantly bigger, and the other significantly smaller) than Covid, against a range of DIY masks.
Full surgical mask was about 90% effective against the very small particles and about 96% against the large. A scarf was 49/62 and a t-shirt was 51/69

I think there is mixed evidence about whether wearing masks makes you more or less likely to touch your face....

[Leinsterman]

Another reason for the masks though is to impress upon people the fact the the threat is real and it helps prevent complacency.

[paddyor]

I was out for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday. It's pretty weird going in to a shop now. The layout was changed and they had the stuff on the floor but it was just a garage so there wasn't really room to get your stuff and keep your 2m. I wonder would they be better off serving out from the hatch.

Yep I gather in Sweden it’s almost all click and collect, with pre payment made in advance online. The idea of being able to minimise exposure inside a traditional lay out shop is not practical in most cases. I think for the safety of their staff, and to minimise the risk of exposure, we need to think about different approaches where possible

The pubs are still open in Sweden ffs

[Duff Paddy]

And they’re still open in South Korea too you bloody fool.
Just watch this video - if you do nothing else today - watch from start to finish and educate yourself

https://youtu.be/gAk7aX5hksU


Edit - and also note he is strongly in favour of everyone wearing masks

[paddyor]

Lads look at the situation in India.

Millions will die from the virus there.

Apparently the lockdown has scattered millions of migrant workers who are going to spread the disease far and wide. It's going to be a mess.

[paddyor]

And they’re still open in South Korea too you bloody fool.
Just watch this video - if you do nothing else today - watch from start to finish and educate yourself

https://youtu.be/gAk7aX5hksU


Edit - and also note he is strongly in favour of everyone wearing masks

Masks definietly work, but it's the other way around. It stops you infecting others than vice versa. E.g. surgeons wear them.

I know you're immuno crompromised but you need stop yourself going full Howard Hughes. You were telling us last week that takeaway was taking a huge risk despite evidence to the contrary. Turn off the news for a little bit.

[Duff Paddy]

And they’re still open in South Korea too you bloody fool.
Just watch this video - if you do nothing else today - watch from start to finish and educate yourself

https://youtu.be/gAk7aX5hksU


Edit - and also note he is strongly in favour of everyone wearing masks

Masks definietly work, but it's the other way around. It stops you infecting others than vice versa. E.g. surgeons wear them.

I know you're immuno crompromised but you need stop yourself going full Howard Hughes. You were telling us last week that takeaway was taking a huge risk despite evidence to the contrary. Turn off the news for a little bit.

I’m not immune compromised. Where are you getting this stuff from? I’m high risk because of my job. Look, you’re a good poster generally but have been getting under my skin lately as it’s clear that you, like many others on here, are not scientifically or medically trained so you’re struggling with some of this. It’s the same with BB, a bright guy but he doesn’t understand the science. And that’s not being mean, it’s just the professional background you come from. You couldn’t have watched the 36minutes video as I only posted it 5 minutes ago. I genuinely ask you to watch it and send it to your family to watch it too. There is a lot in it but it’s the best explanation so far.