Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

camroc1 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:21 am
CM11 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:04 am I see Nolan has said they're no longer able to trace the virus fully. In other words, it's wild. Maybe he should have tried to trace it properly in the first place?

Lockdown was completely wasted. :(
This; one of the reasons the virus is "in the wild" is because they(NPHET) failed to do their job in the summer, when they had the chance.

It probably was already too late by then judging on the the rates of hospitalisation between the spring and now, and the virus has probably been endemic in the country since March.

But NPHET doesn't seem to want to face this possibility, and I bet won't face the logical consequence of it being endemic : lockdown will only work if you do it Chinese style ie weld those with it into their apartments and come back 6 weeks later. All you can do is control hospitalisations and ICU intake, And despite the scare mongering that appears to be the case at the moment.

Reid, the head of the HSE, yesterday stated that one of their problems is patients showing up for routine procedures who test positive for Covid despite being completely asymptomatic. It wasn't made clear whether these people then quarantine in the hospital taking up an acute bed or, as they should, quarantine either at home, or in a facility such as the citywest one.

EDIT Did I read somewhere that something like 80% of cases are asymptomatic or with only very minor symptoms ?
Not one journalist asked the question on this over the summer and you brought it up on here. In the absence of an answer and going by the above from Reid, I guess at this point it is that it’s a mix of;

A) older people arriving with symptoms that are so severe that they weren’t initially tested
B) people in there for other things, with no symptoms, being positive. This indicates a mixture of the PCR testing being too sensitive (You can take your false positives etc here, it is definitely a factor even enough I wouldn’t go full Botha on it) and it also being more widespread in the community in terms of spread due to asymptomatics
C) the last possibility is that other patients and healthcare workers are spreading it. Dr Lambert stated weeks ago that many weren’t following mask protocols in hospitals. This is the worst of all, if some frontline staff can’t abide by the recommendations, what hope do you have?
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by ticketlessinseattle »

CM11 wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:39 pm I think people are underestimating just how well modern medicine has done with covid in 6 months.

It would have had a much higher mortality rate 100 years ago. Hell, probably even 20 years ago.
yes, modern medicine has made advances in the last 20 to 100 years ; it does beg the question though, how come we don't have a cure for the common cold and how does a corona virus bring the entire planet to its knees in the 21st century ? I hope that the one thing we learn from this is that maybe the most valuable companies in the world should not be facebook, amazon, Netflix and google and maybe should be GSK, Pfizer, J&J etc
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by ticketlessinseattle »

Mullet 2 wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:51 pm This Botha lad is a bit crazy.
with his fancy words and charts and data ; we dont need his type around these parts (he did lose me on the mask thing granted)
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by de_Selby »

Massey Ferguson wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:38 am My wife is contact tracing at the moment and is getting increasingly fucked off with the amount of people she speaks to who were symptomatic,
and/or awaiting test results and still went on to have 10+ close contacts in that time. They have no excuse, they know they shouldn't have but just decided the rules didn't apply to them. People are fucking dickheads and I don't know how you can legislate for that.
This is the issue now, everyone has just decided that the restrictions apply to other people, but if they break them once or twice it'll be grand.
Then in the next breath they complain that the government aren't doing enough to stop the spread and maybe we should go to level 5..
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by ticketlessinseattle »

Massey Ferguson wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:38 am My wife is contact tracing at the moment and is getting increasingly fucked off with the amount of people she speaks to who were symptomatic,
and/or awaiting test results and still went on to have 10+ close contacts in that time. They have no excuse, they know they shouldn't have but just decided the rules didn't apply to them. People are fucking dickheads and I don't know how you can legislate for that.
I think thats the problem, you can't legislate for it but you can set up the infrastructure to implement effective (timely) tracking and tracing which they've failed at. Work mate of my missus was contact traced....11 days after her contact tested positive ; what's the point ?
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by ticketlessinseattle »

Rumham wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:08 am
paddyor wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:35 pm
Rumham wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:59 pm
paddyor wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:20 pm
ticketlessinseattle wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:37 pm

the one where 200 years after the event the Chinese lad said it was too soon to tell ? nah, my money is on the Chinese in terms of global domination ; I think they;re conflicted about Trump vs Biden ; they hate Trump for obvious reasons but love the instability and tearing down of western institutions
Yes that one. All they're really doing is repsonding to supply and demand. They do some investment analysis and say yeah we can do this at a good price etc. The devious bastards. If theyw ere really that good at long term planning they'd have had this all wrapped up many years ago. Instead they pissed away billions on ghost cities.

https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1 ... 57376?s=20

I wouldn't bet against them for global domination, but it won't be ebcause they possessive the arcane power of long term planning.

I don't think it makes a difference tbh. The US was moving away from it's dovish stance on China with TPP before Trump came to power. Trump is more incompetent and can be bribed with trademarks etc.
Your theory is based on what exactly, a few online articles you've read and twitter polls?
Mostly these 2 guys

https://twitter.com/BeijingPalmer

https://twitter.com/Scholars_Stage

First is an editor for Foreign policy and the second is a lecturer who sometimes writes for FP. They've both lived there and don't get sucked in by the CCPs nonsense or the tropes that China Hawks and Doves wheel out to support their case.

And you?
I lived there for 5 years. Been in and out of there for a decade more and worked on projects across the ME, Africa and SE Asia during that time where their increased presence and sway has been impossible to ignore. We did a project in DRC where the number of Chinese contractors serving their own mines was actually mind blowing. Need a crane? Send a lad over to the Chinese boys who have multiple 100T mobiles available for rent as they were gathering dust. Those things are generally like gold dust in the bush and they had 4 of them lying idle.

But yeah, twitter.
I think you've told me but where did you live in China Rumham and what time frame ? cheers
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Mullet 2 »

Massey Ferguson wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:38 am My wife is contact tracing at the moment and is getting increasingly fucked off with the amount of people she speaks to who were symptomatic,
and/or awaiting test results and still went on to have 10+ close contacts in that time. They have no excuse, they know they shouldn't have but just decided the rules didn't apply to them. People are fucking dickheads and I don't know how you can legislate for that.
You can stop fúcking around and prosecute them but the they'll lie to you
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Mullet 2
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Mullet 2 »

Oh and if a politician calls it out they'll put the blame on them by implying every is a confused dribbling idiot.
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CM11
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by CM11 »

camroc1 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:21 am
CM11 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:04 am I see Nolan has said they're no longer able to trace the virus fully. In other words, it's wild. Maybe he should have tried to trace it properly in the first place?

Lockdown was completely wasted. :(
This; one of the reasons the virus is "in the wild" is because they(NPHET) failed to do their job in the summer, when they had the chance.

It probably was already too late by then judging on the the rates of hospitalisation between the spring and now, and the virus has probably been endemic in the country since March.

But NPHET doesn't seem to want to face this possibility, and I bet won't face the logical consequence of it being endemic : lockdown will only work if you do it Chinese style ie weld those with it into their apartments and come back 6 weeks later. All you can do is control hospitalisations and ICU intake, And despite the scare mongering that appears to be the case at the moment.

Reid, the head of the HSE, yesterday stated that one of their problems is patients showing up for routine procedures who test positive for Covid despite being completely asymptomatic. It wasn't made clear whether these people then quarantine in the hospital taking up an acute bed or, as they should, quarantine either at home, or in a facility such as the citywest one.

EDIT Did I read somewhere that something like 80% of cases are asymptomatic or with only very minor symptoms ?
Not sure about minor symptoms (you sound like you're quoting the original 80% get mild symptoms) but the recent 14 day reports mentioned 62% symptomatic, 15% asymptomatic and rest unknown. They've dropped the stat in today's report, for some reason.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by iarmhiman »

Level 5 incoming for entire country
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HighKingLeinster
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by HighKingLeinster »

Nphet recommending lvl 5 for the whole country for 6 weeks. Just fùck off.

But can see it being spun as required to save christmas
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Nolanator »

:lol:

Fück off. Fúcking GAA parties.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by iarmhiman »

HighKingLeinster wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:55 am Nphet recommending lvl 5 for the whole country for 6 weeks. Just fùck off.

But can see it being spun as required to save christmas
6 weeks , then extend for another 3. Brings us to Christmas then they will lift or so they will say
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by camroc1 »

Has anyone done a comparison of NPHETS hospitalisation forecasts Vs actuals.

If, as they say, the virus is out of control, the worst case scenario of their previous predictions should have come to pass ?
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Rumham »

ticketlessinseattle wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:10 am
Rumham wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:08 am
paddyor wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:35 pm
Rumham wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:59 pm
paddyor wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:20 pm
Yes that one. All they're really doing is repsonding to supply and demand. They do some investment analysis and say yeah we can do this at a good price etc. The devious bastards. If theyw ere really that good at long term planning they'd have had this all wrapped up many years ago. Instead they pissed away billions on ghost cities.

https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1 ... 57376?s=20

I wouldn't bet against them for global domination, but it won't be ebcause they possessive the arcane power of long term planning.

I don't think it makes a difference tbh. The US was moving away from it's dovish stance on China with TPP before Trump came to power. Trump is more incompetent and can be bribed with trademarks etc.
Your theory is based on what exactly, a few online articles you've read and twitter polls?
Mostly these 2 guys

https://twitter.com/BeijingPalmer

https://twitter.com/Scholars_Stage

First is an editor for Foreign policy and the second is a lecturer who sometimes writes for FP. They've both lived there and don't get sucked in by the CCPs nonsense or the tropes that China Hawks and Doves wheel out to support their case.

And you?
I lived there for 5 years. Been in and out of there for a decade more and worked on projects across the ME, Africa and SE Asia during that time where their increased presence and sway has been impossible to ignore. We did a project in DRC where the number of Chinese contractors serving their own mines was actually mind blowing. Need a crane? Send a lad over to the Chinese boys who have multiple 100T mobiles available for rent as they were gathering dust. Those things are generally like gold dust in the bush and they had 4 of them lying idle.

But yeah, twitter.
I think you've told me but where did you live in China Rumham and what time frame ? cheers
Shanghai, 2011-2016. Played a fair bit of GAA there too and a sinful amount of boozing. It was great craic but Xi Xinping has fcucked the gaff now and closed most of the good streets down. Same for Beijing tbf as Sanlitun was bulldozed a few years back.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Gavin Duffy »

HighKingLeinster wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:55 am Nphet recommending lvl 5 for the whole country for 6 weeks. Just fùck off.

But can see it being spun as required to save christmas
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Nolanator »

Nolanator wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:49 am The hospital situation in parts of England sounds pretty grim. NPHET will be looking across getting very nervous that that's what's down the line for us. Arse.
Well, shite.
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Post by CM11 »

Not unexpected.

Hard to see level 4 not incoming at the very least but the government might argue they've done enough for the moment with the household restrictions.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Jim Lahey »

Is level 5 when you’s lads can’t go outside a 2km radius from your house or the Stasi taser you?
Grim.
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Jim Lahey wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:19 pm Is level 5 when you’s lads can’t go outside a 2km radius from your house or the Stasi taser you?
Grim.
5 klicks tbf.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Leinsterman »

EverReady wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:27 am
My understanding is they were overly reliant on the app. When it had its making your phone hot problems it's already not quite there take up fell off a cliff. Think LM knows the impact of that but they certainly didn't add people

No, not at all. The app was never supposed to be seen as a panacea but would complement a robust track and tracing system.
Google were amazed at the take-up here. It's one of the highest worldwide in terms of national penetration.
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Post by Nolanator »

So what does level 4 entail? Is there anything worth doing still operating?
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CM11
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by CM11 »

Nolanator wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:25 pm So what does level 4 entail? Is there anything worth doing still operating?
Level 4 dials up the no funometer.

I think the main point of it is no retail apart from essential retail.
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camroc1
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Post by camroc1 »

Kills the fécking economy.

Better get that Christmas haircut over the weekend !
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Nolanator »

CM11 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:27 pm
Nolanator wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:25 pm So what does level 4 entail? Is there anything worth doing still operating?
Level 4 dials up the no funometer.

I think the main point of it is no retail apart from essential retail.
I fúcking hate everything.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by EverReady »

Leinsterman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:21 pm
EverReady wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:27 am
My understanding is they were overly reliant on the app. When it had its making your phone hot problems it's already not quite there take up fell off a cliff. Think LM knows the impact of that but they certainly didn't add people

No, not at all. The app was never supposed to be seen as a panacea but would complement a robust track and tracing system.
Google were amazed at the take-up here. It's one of the highest worldwide in terms of national penetration.
Hasn't there been loads of deletions? I understand not was meant to complement by the designers but the track and trace never happened.

Either way fück off with your level 5 Tones and Ro. Absolute spoofers.
'Its out of control'
'Its killing nobody'
'We factor that into our decision making. LEVEL 5'
'Ehhh'
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

CM11 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:27 pm
Nolanator wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:25 pm So what does level 4 entail? Is there anything worth doing still operating?
Level 4 dials up the no funometer.

I think the main point of it is no retail apart from essential retail.
And they already basically introduced Level 4 restrictions on restaurants and bars within their Level 3 fudge.
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Gavin Duffy
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Post by Gavin Duffy »

Are they recommending closing the schools at level 5?
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Post by camroc1 »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:30 pm Are they recommending closing the schools at level 5?
Schools stay open.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Duff Paddy »

de_Selby wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:08 am
Massey Ferguson wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:38 am My wife is contact tracing at the moment and is getting increasingly fucked off with the amount of people she speaks to who were symptomatic,
and/or awaiting test results and still went on to have 10+ close contacts in that time. They have no excuse, they know they shouldn't have but just decided the rules didn't apply to them. People are fucking dickheads and I don't know how you can legislate for that.
This is the issue now, everyone has just decided that the restrictions apply to other people, but if they break them once or twice it'll be grand.
Then in the next breath they complain that the government aren't doing enough to stop the spread and maybe we should go to level 5..
And so it is
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Jim Lahey »

Is pro rugby still allowed at Level 4/5?
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CM11
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Post by CM11 »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... -capacity/

Am I reading this right and one of the doctors in the article is saying 500 hospital admissions a day and not 500 in hospital on a given day?

Where is he getting 500/day? That would mean roughly 16k cases a day!!
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CM11
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Post by CM11 »

Jim Lahey wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:32 pm Is pro rugby still allowed at Level 4/5?
Level 4 yes, level 5 no.
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Post by EverReady »

CM11 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:32 pm https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... -capacity/

Am I reading this right and one of the doctors in the article is saying 500 hospital admissions a day and not 500 in hospital on a given day?

Where is he getting 500/day? That would mean roughly 16k cases a day!!
He is just making shit up. They all are with the media aiding and abetting the mad bastards. Well I give up. I'll still have a job at the end of it and I fought the good fight
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/jack ... -1.4382748
Afew weeks ago the new living with Covid-19 ‘step by step’ national masterplan was launched, and, shortly thereafter, we were threatened with a deviation from the agreed approach via an escalation of restrictions to a Level 5 country wide, based on an increase in the number of new infections of the virus.

Our numbers are still relatively small compared to March and April when it is reasonable to make an educated assumption that tens of thousands of cases were circulating undiagnosed throughout the country. At that time we only had the capacity to test 500 per day at the National Virus Reference Laboratory.

In recent weeks we have scaled up testing, and are currently testing in excess of 80,000 per week and identifying between 500 and 1,000 cases daily. In March we had over 150 patients in our intensive care unit (ICU) departments with Covid-19, and recently we have reported 30 cumulative in the ICU departments nationally.

Is this a reason for concern? Yes. But is it a reason to panic, NO. Living with Covid means that we accept that until there is a vaccine we must proactively find ways to coexist with the virus. It means finding ways to keep the virus at bay, not to count the numbers and to threaten lockdown measures which cause further erosions to our already fragile society. Covid kills directly and Covid kills indirectly. We kept the hospitality sector (wet pubs) closed over the summer so we would not ‘jeopardise’ the schools opening. We introduced different green and red list travel restrictions in an effort to keep Covid-19 at bay. Did those tactics work? No. they obliterated many small businesses that could not reopen, and it created mass unemployment in the travel industry at a time when airline staff could reasonably have operated safely over the summer when Covid risk was low. We sacrificed our economy for poorly thought through decisions, made in a void, without appropriate multi-sector stakeholder engagement.

When Covid hit we knew very little about the virus and the implications for the wider societal structures. Lockdown measures in March were appropriate at the time as they gave us the opportunity to build capacity in the health sector with respect to procurement, testing, contract tracing, creating additional ICU beds and general preparedness. We have learned so much about this virus in a short period of time, we are not in the same position as we were back then. We now need to push the agenda forward, we know what the problem is, we have Covid-19 in Ireland and the numbers are increasing. What are the solutions, besides an over reliance on lockdown measures, to control the spread of Covid? The Centre for Disease Control (CDC), the World Health Organisation (WHO) and other experts have published and stated that lockdowns are not a long term solution. An interesting interview with Dr David Nabarro of the WHO by political presenter Andrew Neil should be required viewing for our Government and by the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet). In short, lockdowns should be a very last resort. There are alternatives.

1. The need for strong and decisive leadership and accountability.

We need our politicians and experts to make informed decisions, not just to wait for Nphet to communicate daily on the Six One news that they are ‘concerned’ about the increasing ‘metrics’. We need Nphet in their advisory capacity to report to Government, and in turn to have our elected officials take responsibility for announcing the plans that mitigate against the threat of this virus. These plans should be made in in consultation with representatives across all sectors. Clearly safety is paramount but safety to the average Irish citizen means protection not just from Covid but all the other threats that undermine their own personal security and protective factors such as health, economic, education and employment.

2. We must follow the living with Covid plan.

We agreed to have a ‘measured response’. Clearly counties with significant increases in Covid-19, where standard measures are not working, should be increased to the appropriate level of the plan. Counties, such as Waterford, should have been permitted to stay at Level 2 in the recent change. The reward for ‘good Covid behaviour’ on the part of Waterford citizens should be staying open at current levels, preserving the Waterford citizens health, and economic and mental health. This is a measured response.

3. We need to stop the media controlling the agenda.

Responsible media have a prominent and constructive role to play in combatting this virus however some of the recent coverage has served no other purpose than to create ‘sound bites’. Recently the media raised the issue of schools staying closed for mid-term break. Where did this story come from? Like every other sector the media need to be included in a wider comprehensive stakeholder engagement plan. We need the media to report accurate and up to date information as a trusted tool in this fight. We do not need announcements about plans to lockdown (if the public does not behave) and open up (when the numbers drop as a function of lockdown). We need a strategy to safely ‘live with Covid-19’.

4. We need more focus on the only intervention to date that has shown to work, the face mask.

Dr Antony Fauci of the National Institute of Health (NIH ) says they work; Bob Redfield from the CDC says a mask will likely work better than any Covid vaccine; Ireland published a ‘Return to work safely’ document in May 2020, providing guidance to businesses and organisations. The document gives direction on ‘preparing their facilities’ to live with Covid. It outlines the Covid prevention measures that need to be implemented. It focuses on social distancing, hand hygiene and disinfection and yet pays lip service to face coverings.

We need to look closely at well performing countries. For example Asian countries have adapted to ‘a new normal’ and are successfully living with Covid, opening up businesses, minimising Covid transmission, taking holidays safely, and the virus continues to remain controlled. Masks and adherence to Covid prevention is encouraged and, if necessary, enforced. As we see Covid surge in Ireland, there continues to be an absence of a strong face mask message. Just media coverage of ‘anti-mask’ protests.

Recent CNN commercials provide the platform to promote the message: ‘A mask says a lot about the person who wears it. But more about the person who does not.’ We need to promote this very message in a national face mask campaign in Ireland. Our national celebrities, sports stars, lifestyle influencers could provide an ideal platform to engage the wider community, by sending a clear message on the importance and benefits of masks. Our gardaí, could also take a more proactive role in engaging the community, they should be using every opportunity available to them in the course of their daily work to hand out badges and bumper stickers that say ‘wear a mask, save a life’.

5. We need Covid support teams.

They can work with community organisations, to teach them to do the Covid prevention interventions correctly. Many are doing it wrong. Why? They were handed a glossy brochure, told by the HSE to ‘assign a Covid officer, and implement a plan (déjà vu our nursing homes in March and April). We have gotten it wrong in many building sites, crèches, schools, restaurants and pubs, and athletic facilities (ie my gym in Dublin!). No doubt individual business are doing their best but they are continuing to make mistakes. We need to train up support staff, and make them trainers, educators, and inspectors for the Covid-19 prevention effort. We know that there are skilled individuals sitting at home on Covid payments who would welcome an opportunity to be back in employment.

6. We need to salvage our travel industry.

We need our ministers to meet with travel experts, and to develop a plan to secure and manage the airport, the ports, and our borders. Technology companies who have Covid PCR and antigen tests could be used. Another measure worth closer inspection is the ‘sniffer dog’ model used in Finland. We have had from May to figure this one out. We have not done so. We can do it in a time sensitive way if you get the right people in the same room to develop a plan to achieve this goal. How are we going to deal with securing our northern Border? Covid-19 is surging in the North and we need to protect our border counties against this threat. But we also need to support our neighbours. This late in the game why do we not have a ‘joined up’ all Ireland approach?

7. We need Covid SWAT teams.

They can go out to the clusters around the country. Safetynet Primary Care is a charity who delivers care to marginalised groups, they operate from a mobile health unit and have a PCR machine on their vehicle, and they are currently being used by the HSE to go out to address the clusters. This organisation need to be supported to train a team of ambulance crews to replicate their mobile health unit. Remember what Dr Michael Ryan (WHO) said back in April he said “We need to chase the virus and not let the virus chase us”.

8. The Government need to sit down with our publicans, hoteliers and hospitality industry experts.

They must work out a plan to continue to operate safely in the time of Covid. Temple Bar, located in Dublin city centre, generated €1 billion in revenue annually pre Covid and employed thousands of people. It has been in ‘deep freeze’ since before St Patrick’s day. The businesses located their have developed a comprehensive Covid start up plan, modelled on the Hong Kong model for safe reopening. Despite substantial investment in research and the inclusion of best practice in the detail of their plan they have still not yet managed to get an opportunity to present it to the Government. Who is listening? We need our ministers to sit down with our industry experts and work towards re opening safely.

9. We need to progress non-Covid related health care in the community.

Community GP services, cancer prevention and treatment services, STI services, mental health and drug treatment services have suffered, the consequences are being seen now; and will be worse in six months. We need to keep these services going in parallel with Covid-19 community preparedness. We have ‘relocated’ staff from the community services to Covid, at the expense of these critical services, and we cannot continue justify this.

10. We need to forge ahead with a new approach.

It must conceived through collaboration with all of the necessary stakeholders. I share with you a comment expressed to me by one of my colleagues in the hospital.

‘We have a lot of bright innovative people in this country. But if you are not in the inner circle your opinion does not matter. It is an extraordinary inertia as we sleep walk to the brink of economic meltdown’.

As an individual I am fearful of getting Covid. I don’t want personally to experience it or be part of the chain of transmission. I am ever anxious that the numbers will increase, but I do not believe they will surge if we do the right thing now. I am a bit disillusioned if not demoralised about facing into another season with Covid-19. However, lockdown is the last resort. We cannot continue to feed fear, anxiety and depression.

The right thing is for the Government to get the Irish people behind them, give strong messages on what they can do to be part of the solution. We also need to remember that we are not in this scenario in isolation the whole world is facing the ‘Living Safely with Covid-19’ challenge.

We must look globally and to our EU counterparts and quickly come up with a multi-sector plan that safely allows Ireland to live with Covid-19, not die with Covid19. In this commentary I have provided a number of suggestions, not a comprehensive plan by any means, which was put together by reading international documents, studying about Covid, talking to people, and listening to all stakeholders.

Dr Jack Lambert is professor of medicine and infectious diseases, Mater and UCD School of Medicine
A tour de force piece here from Lambert. The NPHET upon high, who clearly didn't want the Living with Covid plan, needs to be reformed badly. I would also make one individual solely responsible for test and trace. NPHET were responsible for directing it and the HSE (to which half of NPHET belong to) were responsible for delivery but this needs to fall under one person. If they aren't getting the resources to do proper tracing and to do studies on transmission, that person needs to be in the media explaining why.

Active engagement with the sectors he mentions is a must too. A few wankers on here scoffed at it, but the way the aviation & hospitality sector were treated over the summer months was a disgrace. These were sectors that did everything they could to shut down in March and were active in preparing for reopening safely but saw shoddy communication all summer and blame.
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camroc1
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CM11 wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:32 pm https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... -capacity/

Am I reading this right and one of the doctors in the article is saying 500 hospital admissions a day and not 500 in hospital on a given day?

Where is he getting 500/day? That would mean roughly 16k cases a day!!
Not only 500/day CM, but 500 "potentially severe" hospitalisations/day.

Would they stop with the hyperbole and give us the maths.
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danthefan
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After their embarrassingly shit fact check of that Irish Times ad, thejournal have published a piece from Paul f**king Murphy this afternoon whining about the elites and Leo and whatever. There's 28bn down the back of the couch apparently.
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Blackrock Bullet
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danthefan wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:03 pm After their embarrassingly shit fact check of that Irish Times ad, thejournal have published a piece from Paul f**king Murphy this afternoon whining about the elites and Leo and whatever. There's 28bn down the back of the couch apparently.
It should be pointed out to that wanker that the Government’s decisions over the summer have disproportionately impacted Ryanair, Aer Lingus, aircraft leasing firms, landlords, hotel chains, Air BnB, Diageo, publicans & a whole host of other “elites” they regularly. The slowest economic reopening in Europe, with many industries still closed or near closed, but the narrative they pushed was economy vs health.

I’d also love to know how we can all seize the means of production by hiding under the bed.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Interesting piece on Unherd (sorry Gav), talking about a circuit breaker. As always, very balanced from Freddie.

It’s the kind of argument you could live with if it came from NPHET

https://unherd.com/2020/10/the-case-for ... t-breaker/
Last edited by Blackrock Bullet on Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
iarmhiman
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by iarmhiman »

NPHET advise level 5 . Government to go with level 4 across the board so? Is that what will happen.
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