Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

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CM11
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by CM11 »

anonymous_joe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:00 am
The Sun God wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:48 am
camroc1 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:12 pm
CM11 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:00 pm
nardol wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:10 pm

just wants to keep the paycheck rolling in.

Nobody that genuinely cares about Ireland would want Coveney gone. He is the only effin statesman from our pool of insane TDs
It was interesting to see all the Indos join in. Losing McSharry is a blow but this wasn't the close call SF were hoping for.
Not even near.
And MacSharry has shot his bolt.
Martin will be happy.
I reckon Mrs Mac was playing away while Ray was pontificating on the canvas because there is no way that the gormless idiot Marc is from the same genepool. Apple certainly fell far from the tree with that one.
It's not dissimilar to Chris Andrews though. That generation of FF (the Chris Andrews generation) was always considered a decent bet for ambitious young people who were otherwise apolitical.

A lot of erstwhile FF families saw defections post-2011.

I've a mate who would be a child of FF aristocracy and again their focus in politics has always been the practical at the expense of the theoretical.

FF don't really offer an attractive vista for ambitious young people. Paradoxically, I think that's actually untrue, because a young FFer has a huge chance of being nominated to run. I suspect you'll see more attempts to get 30-somethings elected out west but keep them fairly middle-class and "youthful" to try and undo the damage in Dublin.
It's hard to see a way back for FF.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by camroc1 »

Interesting story on the front page of the IT at the moment, concerning education spending and outcomes in the OECD.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/educati ... -1.4675156

The headline that the paper chose to run with states that we spend least on education in the OECD with the obvious implication that our education system is pretty shit :
Ireland ranks in last place in OECD for investment in education
It is only when you read further that you discover that the metric being used is spend as a percentage of GDP. As any fule kno GDP in Ireland is a distorted metric and that GNI*, which runs at about 80% of GDP, is the more appropriate metric to use when making international comparisons. So in actuality our spend is not the worst in the OECD.

What is even more remarkable, when you read further down the article, is the comparison of outcomes :
Data also indicates Ireland performs well in areas of equity across the education system and has the lowest proportion of under-performing pupils in disadvantaged areas.

The proportion of students completing school is particularly high in Ireland. Some 93 per cent of 15- to 19-year-olds are enrolled in second-level education compared to the OECD average of 84 per cent.

Ireland has fewer children from lower socio-economic groups performing at the lowest level in standardised tests -- 16 per cent compared to the OECD average of 29 per cent.

A positive outcome is also reflected in data that shows the difference between native-born and foreign born young people who are not in education or training. In Ireland, the different is 2 per centage points compared to the OECD average of 5 per cent.
and........
The salaries of school staff represent the largest single expenditure in education.

Between 2005 and 2020, the salaries of teachers with 15 years of experience increased by 2 to 3 per cent at primary and secondary levels across OECD countries.

In Ireland, however, teachers’ salaries increased by 16 to 17 per cent over the same time period.


Average salaries for teachers across the OECD were – after conversion to US dollars – $45, 687 (€38,683) at primary and $51, 749 at second level..

In Ireland, they were significantly higher at $59 204 for primary and $61,652 for second level.
So we pay our teachers well above average, and have one of the most equitable education systems in the OECD, and all for a below average spend.

Surely this is something to congratulate our education system for, rather than provide soundbites for Union Officials and the likes of Mary Lou to rise themselves onto their hind legs and misleadingly castigate the government for underinvestment, instead of celebrating the success of our system.

And this from the supposed "paper of record".
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

anonymous_joe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:00 am
The Sun God wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:48 am
camroc1 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:12 pm
CM11 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:00 pm
nardol wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:10 pm

just wants to keep the paycheck rolling in.

Nobody that genuinely cares about Ireland would want Coveney gone. He is the only effin statesman from our pool of insane TDs
It was interesting to see all the Indos join in. Losing McSharry is a blow but this wasn't the close call SF were hoping for.
Not even near.
And MacSharry has shot his bolt.
Martin will be happy.
I reckon Mrs Mac was playing away while Ray was pontificating on the canvas because there is no way that the gormless idiot Marc is from the same genepool. Apple certainly fell far from the tree with that one.
It's not dissimilar to Chris Andrews though. That generation of FF (the Chris Andrews generation) was always considered a decent bet for ambitious young people who were otherwise apolitical.

A lot of erstwhile FF families saw defections post-2011.

I've a mate who would be a child of FF aristocracy and again their focus in politics has always been the practical at the expense of the theoretical.

FF don't really offer an attractive vista for ambitious young people. Paradoxically, I think that's actually untrue, because a young FFer has a huge chance of being nominated to run. I suspect you'll see more attempts to get 30-somethings elected out west but keep them fairly middle-class and "youthful" to try and undo the damage in Dublin.
Andrews is a dumbass tbf. MacSharry also strikes me as dim.

FF really needed to boot MM after 2016, they could have settled into a 50 seat level of performance but were too nice to MM.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

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camroc1 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:33 pm Interesting story on the front page of the IT at the moment, concerning education spending and outcomes in the OECD.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/educati ... -1.4675156

The headline that the paper chose to run with states that we spend least on education in the OECD with the obvious implication that our education system is pretty shit :
Ireland ranks in last place in OECD for investment in education
It is only when you read further that you discover that the metric being used is spend as a percentage of GDP. As any fule kno GDP in Ireland is a distorted metric and that GNI*, which runs at about 80% of GDP, is the more appropriate metric to use when making international comparisons. So in actuality our spend is not the worst in the OECD.

What is even more remarkable, when you read further down the article, is the comparison of outcomes :
Data also indicates Ireland performs well in areas of equity across the education system and has the lowest proportion of under-performing pupils in disadvantaged areas.

The proportion of students completing school is particularly high in Ireland. Some 93 per cent of 15- to 19-year-olds are enrolled in second-level education compared to the OECD average of 84 per cent.

Ireland has fewer children from lower socio-economic groups performing at the lowest level in standardised tests -- 16 per cent compared to the OECD average of 29 per cent.

A positive outcome is also reflected in data that shows the difference between native-born and foreign born young people who are not in education or training. In Ireland, the different is 2 per centage points compared to the OECD average of 5 per cent.
and........
The salaries of school staff represent the largest single expenditure in education.

Between 2005 and 2020, the salaries of teachers with 15 years of experience increased by 2 to 3 per cent at primary and secondary levels across OECD countries.

In Ireland, however, teachers’ salaries increased by 16 to 17 per cent over the same time period.


Average salaries for teachers across the OECD were – after conversion to US dollars – $45, 687 (€38,683) at primary and $51, 749 at second level..

In Ireland, they were significantly higher at $59 204 for primary and $61,652 for second level.
So we pay our teachers well above average, and have one of the most equitable education systems in the OECD, and all for a below average spend.

Surely this is something to congratulate our education system for, rather than provide soundbites for Union Officials and the likes of Mary Lou to rise themselves onto their hind legs and misleadingly castigate the government for underinvestment, instead of celebrating the success of our system.

And this from the supposed "paper of record".
I’d accept that but it wasn’t just the left doing that last year. A couple of former posters here were delighting in quoting GDP last year as our base metric for deficit, economic performance etc.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by DeDoc »

@camroc

It is crappy article alright, poor journalism.

A couple of comments

There is an argument that GDP is appropriate, although I'd probably lean towards GNI* - which would boost our proportion of spending by about 25% (1/0.8). We move from the bottom upwards, but still not where you might expect if you were looking at our system from the outside.

The teaching hours stuff is a bit misleading, as it tracks contact hours in the classroom. In most other countries the typical teacher role is different to here - a smaller % in classroom, and much larger % in other roles - planning, curricular development, CPD etc Also spread over a longer teaching year (at least in relation to second level)

For salaries, as well as the differences in averages, our structures are different - we start our teachers higher, and they advance through increments in an otherwise flat structure. Other countries tend to have more grades with promotion etc

we spend feck all compared to other countries on non-salary expenditure - hence the 'voluntary' contributions and fund-raisers that our schools engage in. In lots of countries they'd be shocked to hear that our kids are expected to buy their own books etc

There are a lot of good points - we shouldn't overlook that. Depsite everything a lot of the outcomes are pretty good.

Last point is - look at the differnet levels (primary, secondary and tertiary) and there are even more start differences - especially at third level. Again, there are subtleties there that mask what is in practice an even bigger gap. For example, in Italy, universities are obliged to accept (pretty much) anyone who wants to enter. So they tend to use first year as a sort of filtering system, and weed out/hold back those not deemed capable. Effectively they preserve the majority of their teaching resources (better staff-student ratios etc) for the senior students and 'rack em high' in first year. So their 'true' numbers are actually a lot better than the headline.

A postscript - the article got it wrong that the spend is converted to US dollars. It isn't - it is PPP dollars, i.e. not just converted to a currency, but adjusted for the purchasing power of the money in that country
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by anonymous_joe »

It's not crappy journalism, it's clickbait, and effective clickbait.

And yeah, to Statto and BB, FF do look to be in terminal decline in urban areas. Outside them it remains different.

Condolences to Sun God.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

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anonymous_joe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:00 am FF don't really offer an attractive vista for ambitious young people. Paradoxically, I think that's actually untrue, because a young FFer has a huge chance of being nominated to run. I suspect you'll see more attempts to get 30-somethings elected out west but keep them fairly middle-class and "youthful" to try and undo the damage in Dublin.
Yes indeed. Can you think of anyone that might apply to? [/tinfoil hat]
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

anonymous_joe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:50 pm It's not crappy journalism, it's clickbait, and effective clickbait.

And yeah, to Statto and BB, FF do look to be in terminal decline in urban areas. Outside them it remains different.

Condolences to Sun God.
I think Martin got away with a lot. He tried to block Hanafin for years as she was a potential competitor to him, under the guise that FF needed youth. They’d have won a seat in 2016 in DLR if they hadn’t done that.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by feckwanker »

There are times I really miss Mullet's posting on here.....
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by The Sun God »

anonymous_joe wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:50 pm It's not crappy journalism, it's clickbait, and effective clickbait.

And yeah, to Statto and BB, FF do look to be in terminal decline in urban areas. Outside them it remains different.

Condolences to Sun God.
Cheers AJ
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by iarmhiman »

My condolences TSG. Are you in Dublin or France these days?
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iarmhiman wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:15 pm My condolences TSG. Are you in Dublin or France these days?
I was in Dublin for most of last month organizing the funeral etc . I am actually in New York at the moment visiting Daughter #1 and I am heading up to Wisconsin late next week to cheer on my old mucker Pádg next weekend.

Appreciate your kind thoughts.
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Post by CM11 »

Another 28k tests reported today with an even lower positivity than yesterday. It's time to rethink the strategy although tbf Tony did imply that testing on this scale is coming to an end, for kids anyway.
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Post by Leinsterman »

Sorry to hear about your father TSG. Condolences.

Stats - yeah it's very good news about the test numbers. Loads of people are getting tested because of that bollox of a head cold going around at the moment.
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Leinsterman wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:25 pm Sorry to hear about your father TSG. Condolences.

Stats - yeah it's very good news about the test numbers. Loads of people are getting tested because of that bollox of a head cold going around at the moment.
Yep, been there, done that.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by The Sun God »

Leinsterman wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:25 pm Sorry to hear about your father TSG. Condolences.

Stats - yeah it's very good news about the test numbers. Loads of people are getting tested because of that bollox of a head cold going around at the moment.
Appreciate it Sir.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by ticketlessinseattle »

Condolences TSG
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Have they lifted the ban on travel to USA TSG or are you an American citizen?
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iarmhiman wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:57 pm Have they lifted the ban on travel to USA TSG or are you an American citizen?
I got an NIE ( National interest exemption) visa . Long story but it was to do with the 9/11 commemoration last weekend.
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Post by The Sun God »

ticketlessinseattle wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:56 pm Condolences TSG
Cheers mate.
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Post by camroc1 »

The Sun God wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:18 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:57 pm Have they lifted the ban on travel to USA TSG or are you an American citizen?
I got an NIE ( National interest exemption) visa . Long story but it was to do with the 9/11 commemoration last weekend.
You were working down Wall St way on 9/11, weren't you ?
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Duff Paddy »

Ah bollox. Sorry to hear that TSG
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Post by DeDoc »

My sympathies TSG.
Fairly near to that point with my old man, and always an uneasy feeling when a family member phones, in case it is 'that call'.

Good to hear that he had a good innings in any case
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Post by redderneck »

Condolensces TSG. Travel well. Lovely thing to be linking up with family and having a bit of a skite. Helps keep things moving along.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by redderneck »

DeDoc wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:24 pm My sympathies TSG.
Fairly near to that point with my old man, and always an uneasy feeling when a family member phones, in case it is 'that call'.

Good to hear that he had a good innings in any case
Similar with my own. Just had a glorious weekend back home to celebrate their anniversary, and have to admit to shedding a tear as I pointed the rental towards Dublin airport on leaving. Glad we did it.
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Post by iarmhiman »

Difficult interview for Donnelly on prime time
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iarmhiman wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:54 pm Difficult interview for Donnelly on prime time
Go on...
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Post by JoeyFantastic »

Sorry for your loss TSG, ar dheis Dé go raibh a h'anam dílis.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

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CM11 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:12 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:54 pm Difficult interview for Donnelly on prime time
Go on...
Slaintecare.

Miriam was pretty relentless
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by iarmhiman »

A lot of controversy over Michael D not attending that "religious" ceremony in Armagh.

I think he's correct for not attending. A "religious" ceremony celebrating the partition of our island. Give me a break.
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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.4676155

Thoughts?

Whatever they decide to do, the current system isn't working. Crash after crash after crash, southbound traffic in the morning at a standstill, northbound in the evening at a standstill. Even a hint of rain and the whole thing somehow gets even worse.
Major changes to how traffic will use the M50 motorway in Dublin are due to be announced on Friday.

Under a €50 million plan to tackle increasing traffic volumes, the M50 is to become Ireland’s first “managed motorway” with controllers based in Dublin’s docklands being able to set variable speed limits, close lanes, divert traffic off the motorway and clear lanes for emergency vehicles.

Traffic numbers on the motorway rose 40 per cent between 2011 and 2019, and figures show that M50 traffic levels have returned to about 90 per cent of the June 2019 traffic levels.

Transport Infrastructure Ireland says the road facilitates the movement of up to €35 billion of goods each year, the movement of which must be actively managed to prevent costs in terms of delays and gridlock.

There are up to 400,000 trips on the M50 every day, it says, 40 per cent of which are during peak hours.

The busiest section is generally between the N2 interchange at Finglas and the N3 interchange at Blanchardstown.

TII said the typical trip for a regular M50 road user was less than two junctions. Some 44 per cent of M50 trips are less than 20km in distance, while 70 per cent are less than 30km.

In addition to the €50 million set-up costs, the new management system will cost €30 million to run over the next decade.

‘Dynamic service’
The authority said the investment would allow it to deliver a more efficient, flexible and dynamic service to road users.

The scheme will rely on almost 100 overhead gantries carrying 386 lane closure signals, with an additional 64 variable message signs and 45 CCTV cameras. The overhead lane control signals will be complemented by 54 slip road signs on the entry points to the M50.

Where necessary, traffic can be diverted from sections of the motorway, travelling along way-marked routes through the suburbs, to avoid incidents.

Learn more
The scheme is being rolled out on a phased, incremental manner to allow road users, emergency responders and operators the opportunity to familiarise themselves with the new digital signs.

The system will begin this autumn with variable speed limits being displayed on overhead gantries, as guidance only, until motorists are familiar with the signs. The first section to display the signs will be Junction 4, Ballymun, to Junction 6, Castleknock.

Early next year, additional phases will be introduced, with the extension of the signs from Castleknock to Junction 9, Red Cow. By next summer, the scheme will cover the M50 as far as Firhouse, and by autumn 2022 it will reach Junction 14, Sandyford. The last phase will include Sandyford to the M11 and Junction 3 M1 to Ballymun.

To allow road users a period of time to familiarise themselves with the new digital signs, the variable speeds displayed on overhead gantries will initially be cautionary. Road users are reminded that, during this period, the existing speed limit of 100km/h on the M50 remains enforceable, in line with the static signage along the motorway.

The Road Safety Authority is to roll out a public awareness campaign to make drivers aware of the introduction of the new speed signs on the M50 and why they are being introduced.
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Post by Lazy Couch potato »

iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:15 am A lot of controversy over Michael D not attending that "religious" ceremony in Armagh.

I think he's correct for not attending. A "religious" ceremony celebrating the partition of our island. Give me a break.

Constitutional crisis incoming !

FWIW I feel he could refuse as a private citizen but he’s paid enough to be our representative. It’s an appalling misstep….damn sure Mary Mac would have attended and kept good relationships with the unionist community. So unnecessary.
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iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:15 am A lot of controversy over Michael D not attending that "religious" ceremony in Armagh.

I think he's correct for not attending. A "religious" ceremony celebrating the partition of our island. Give me a break.
And referring to Higgins as the "President of the Republic of Ireland". :blush:

Once wee Jeffrey opened his gob, the event became politicised anyway, and that meant no revisiting of the decision.

I wonder where the leak came from ?
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Post by camroc1 »

Lazy Couch potato wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:59 am
iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:15 am A lot of controversy over Michael D not attending that "religious" ceremony in Armagh.

I think he's correct for not attending. A "religious" ceremony celebrating the partition of our island. Give me a break.

Constitutional crisis incoming !

FWIW I feel he could refuse as a private citizen but he’s paid enough to be our representative. It’s an appalling misstep….damn sure Mary Mac would have attended and kept good relationships with the unionist community. So unnecessary.
He pulled out of a 1916 commemorative dinner in Belfast in 2016, because there wasn't agreement between the Nordie parties about holding it, or him attending. No constitutional crisis then, none now.
Last edited by camroc1 on Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CM11 »

camroc1 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:16 am
Lazy Couch potato wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:59 am
iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:15 am A lot of controversy over Michael D not attending that "religious" ceremony in Armagh.

I think he's correct for not attending. A "religious" ceremony celebrating the partition of our island. Give me a break.

Constitutional crisis incoming !

FWIW I feel he could refuse as a private citizen but he’s paid enough to be our representative. It’s an appalling misstep….damn sure Mary Mac would have attended and kept good relationships with the unionist community. So unnecessary.
He pulled out of a 1916 commemorative dinner in Belfast in 1916, because there wasn't agreement between the Nordie parties about holding it, or him attending. No constitutional crisis then, none now.
Didn't think he was that old.....
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Post by camroc1 »

CM11 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:18 am
camroc1 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:16 am
Lazy Couch potato wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:59 am
iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:15 am A lot of controversy over Michael D not attending that "religious" ceremony in Armagh.

I think he's correct for not attending. A "religious" ceremony celebrating the partition of our island. Give me a break.

Constitutional crisis incoming !

FWIW I feel he could refuse as a private citizen but he’s paid enough to be our representative. It’s an appalling misstep….damn sure Mary Mac would have attended and kept good relationships with the unionist community. So unnecessary.
He pulled out of a 1916 commemorative dinner in Belfast in 1916, because there wasn't agreement between the Nordie parties about holding it, or him attending. No constitutional crisis then, none now.
Didn't think he was that old.....
:lol:

Ah, 2016. I'll edit the original.
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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Leinster in London »

iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:15 am A lot of controversy over Michael D not attending that "religious" ceremony in Armagh.

I think he's correct for not attending. A "religious" ceremony celebrating the partition of our island. Give me a break.
Did you see that they did not actually invite The President of Ireland, they invited the President of the Republic.

Not surprised he ignored it, as it is an official slight to misaddress correspondence to a person in his position. He also points out that the DUP are a strange animal commenting on his absence given that they normally do not turn up to most other invitations he accepted from unis and the like.
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Post by CM11 »

The Dáil vote roughly reflected the mood of the electorate as revealed in successive opinion polls. Sinn Féin and its allies got the support of 37 per cent of Dáil deputies but over 60 per cent backed Coveney.

The lesson here is that there is a clear anti-Sinn Féin majority in the Dáil and outside it when the chips are down. It means that, in spite of all the predictions, there is nothing inevitable about Sinn Féin taking power after the next election. It may well happen, but only if the Coalition fails to deliver on the issues of concern to a majority of people and, most importantly, if it loses its nerve.
Stephen Collins making the point that I've been making re. SF.

Good article and it'll be interesting to see how Bacik does in DBS in a general election given Labour have thrown in with SF on this petty debate. It was always assumed the SDs would be game but I'd hoped Labour would be more principled.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/labo ... 7?mode=amp
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Post by lorcanoworms »

Very sorry for your loss TSG.
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Conspicuous
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Post by Conspicuous »

CM11 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:38 am
The Dáil vote roughly reflected the mood of the electorate as revealed in successive opinion polls. Sinn Féin and its allies got the support of 37 per cent of Dáil deputies but over 60 per cent backed Coveney.

The lesson here is that there is a clear anti-Sinn Féin majority in the Dáil and outside it when the chips are down. It means that, in spite of all the predictions, there is nothing inevitable about Sinn Féin taking power after the next election. It may well happen, but only if the Coalition fails to deliver on the issues of concern to a majority of people and, most importantly, if it loses its nerve.
Stephen Collins making the point that I've been making re. SF.

Good article and it'll be interesting to see how Bacik does in DBS in a general election given Labour have thrown in with SF on this petty debate. It was always assumed the SDs would be game but I'd hoped Labour would be more principled.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/labo ... 7?mode=amp
And both of you seem to be making the very dangerous assumption that FF won’t go into power with SF after the next election .
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