Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

[anonymous_joe]

and the bigger issue is that its actually not the front line staff but the management of departments, hospitals, functions etc that don't seem to have any inclination, incentive to create fiunctioning, efficient operations ; in fact the system seems to encourage the opposite

This isn't exclusive to the public sector though.
Look at any large organisation and you'll see the same thing but not to the same extent. The main difference is the private sector companies won't be unionised so it's a little bit easier to make changes.

EDIT: and what drives all the bloating and inefficiencies is the bane of efficiency - corporate governance. Once an auditor comes in and goes through your processes, they come up with ridiculous niggly issues that need to be ironed out and this leads to bloating.

You need auditors when you can't remember where all the billions of euro of public money vanished.

[camroc1]

and the bigger issue is that its actually not the front line staff but the management of departments, hospitals, functions etc that don't seem to have any inclination, incentive to create fiunctioning, efficient operations ; in fact the system seems to encourage the opposite

This isn't exclusive to the public sector though.
Look at any large organisation and you'll see the same thing but not to the same extent. The main difference is the private sector companies won't be unionised so it's a little bit easier to make changes.

EDIT: and what drives all the bloating and inefficiencies is the bane of efficiency - corporate governance. Once an auditor comes in and goes through your processes, they come up with ridiculous niggly issues that need to be ironed out and this leads to bloating.

You need auditors when you can't remember where all the billions of euro of public money vanished.

Overtime and sickpay ?

[Blackrock Bullet]

Most of them aren’t worked to the bone. Only a very small percentage are even dealing with covid patients.

Must be great being so absolutely sure of everything.

This is my experience of hospitals, from being in one for a while and having to spend a considerable amount of time with a family member in another.

During the day you'll see plenty of people going around with clip boards doing absolutely nothing. You won't see someone who has got a "biro" job coming in and helping a student nurse clean up shite from a patient or a catheter issue. You'll see them peering over the heads of the nurses who worked the wards to get their reports done so they can out the door by 8 though, whilst patients are often left alone during shift changeovers.

We will all have family members who are nurses and they will moan like nothing else, it's understandable given the nature of the job, but it also is what it is. I've a family member who spent her life moaning about the job but would say the exact same about the structures and practices.

[lorcanoworms]

Some corner sites in my neighbourhood which have only just been started building on are working away as usual, others that are being gutted but not near finished are working away.
I thought you could only complete near finished or work on social housing?
Maybe I live in social housing and nobody told me .

[CM11]

First signs of hospitalisation slow down. Biggest issue will probably be to get patients discharged before the weekend.

ICU will probably continue to increase for another week.

[Leinsterman]

You need auditors when you can't remember where all the billions of euro of public money vanished.

I was referring to the private sector in that instance.
Some of the stuff they pick up on is ridiculous and based on worst case scenarios and "what ifs" which have less than 5% chance of occurring.

[Gavin Duffy]

Some corner sites in my neighbourhood which have only just been started building on are working away as usual, others that are being gutted but not near finished are working away.
I thought you could only complete near finished or work on social housing?
Maybe I live in social housing and nobody told me .

https://cif.ie/coronavirus/#statements

“Construction and development

The following services relating to construction and development:
(a) the construction or development of essential health and related projects, including those relevant to preventing, limiting, minimising or slowing the spread of Covid-19;

(b) the construction or development of essential educational facilities at primary and post-primary level, including school building projects, which will provide additional capacity for students or involve essential maintenance or refurbishment works in support of the continued provision of education;

(c) certain essential projects relating to the construction and development at Technological University Dublin Campus Grangegorman;

(d) construction or development of social housing, whether contracted by, or on behalf of, a local authority or an approved housing body, (including those properties in a housing development that a local authority or approved housing body has agreed to lease, or where a developer has agreed to transfer ownership to a local authority or approved housing body or agreed the grant of a lease to a local authority in accordance with section 96(3) of the Planning and Development Act 2000 (No. 30 of 2000)) where –

(i) the local authority, or the approved housing body concerned, confirms that the completion of the housing project is necessary to alleviate homelessness, overcrowding, the numbers in emergency or temporary accommodation and to facilitate transfers from emergency accommodation or other forms of social housing in order to prevent, limit, minimise or slow the spread of Covid-19,

(ii) the project is funded, or has been approved for funding, in whole or in part, by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and

(iii) the project is scheduled to be completed by the 28th day of February 2021;

(e) essential works on vacant residential properties, owned or controlled by a local authority or an approved housing body, which are necessary to allow the property to be allocated to a household on the social housing waiting list, and which are scheduled to be completed by the 28th day of February 2021;

(f) works of adaptation relating to a housing adaptation grant paid in accordance with Regulation 5 of the Housing (Adaptation Grants for Older People and People with a Disability) Regulations 2007 (S.I. No. 670 of 2007) where the person in respect of whom the grant is payable consents to such works of adaptation being undertaken in his or her home;

(g) construction or development funded by the pyrite remediation scheme in accordance with the Pyrite Resolution Act 2013 (No. 51 of 2013) which are scheduled to be completed by the 31st day of January 2021 and where the completion of such construction or development is essential to prevent, limit, minimise or slow the spread of Covid-19;

(h) the repair, maintenance and construction of critical transport and utility infrastructure;

(i) the supply and delivery of essential or emergency maintenance and repair services to businesses and places of residence (including electrical, gas, oil, plumbing, glazing and roofing services) on an emergency call-out basis;

(j) housing construction and completion works ongoing on the 8th day of January 2021 where such works are scheduled to be completed by the 31st day of January 2021 and will render the home under construction capable of occupation by that date;

(k) construction and development projects necessary for the maintenance of supply chains in respect of services specified in subparagraphs (h) to (p) of paragraph 2 or information and communications specified in subparagraphs (c) and (d) of paragraph 9 but shall exclude general purpose facilities such as office accommodation and car parks;

(l) construction and development projects that relate to the direct supply of medical products for Covid-19.”,

[lorcanoworms]

Thanks Gav, as I thought.

[Leinster in London]

The auld Mother and Baby Homes Report is not a pleasant read.

Very clear that Irish people knew what was happening and did absolutely nothing to help the women involved.

Stories of women being kicked out of their home after being impregnated by family members. What a shithole of a country.

If the UK did not legalise abortion we would still probably have the Homes.

This is what happened:
Points to note, the spell in the home was organised by the family, visits were allowed, only some families did not accept back their daughters after the adoption.

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/ot ... -baby-home

My friend Una had a cousin called Patricia who regularly visited their home. She was our age. As I spent half my teen years in Una’s house I often met Patricia. One day, in 1968, when we were 17 years old, there was much weeping and whispering going on in their house when I called. Una locked the two of us into the bathroom to tell me the BIG news. “Patricia’s expecting,” she said, dramatically. Well, we were shocked to the core. A girl our age had had sex with a man! (This was back in the dark ages.) What was she going to do?

Only those of us who were alive at the time in Ireland understand how it would have been impossible for 17-year-old Patricia to stay at home, in her good Catholic household, and be a ‘walking occasion of sin,’ giving a very bad example. Her baby would be ‘illegitimate’ and bring shame to her whole family.

Una’s mother swore me to secrecy. She explained to Una and me that Patricia would go to a home for unmarried mothers in Dublin. The nuns there would look after her and the baby would be adopted after birth. We found all this fascinating and returned to our boarding school pitying Patricia and wondering how she would be.

We were home again, during our Easter holidays, when the baby was almost due. Una’s mother announced that Una and I were to go up to Dublin, to the home for unmarried mothers, and visit Patricia on Easter Tuesday.

ADVERTISING


It was the most exciting thing we had ever heard. Both of us were bored stiff and longing for adventure. We had never been to Dublin on our own before. Throughout the Holy Week Ceremonies, we wondered – 'What we would wear?', 'Might there be "fine things" (handsome boys) on the train?', 'Would we wear lipstick?', 'How would we know where to get the bus?', 'How would we know where to get off the bus?', and 'What would we say to Patricia?' (My excuse for seeming so insensitive to poor Patricia’s situation is that we were 17 and had no way at the time of knowing any better.)

We set off, full of excitement – two pure country mugs, heading to Dublin. We found the right bus and immediately asked the bus conductor did he know where 381 Navan Road was and would he tell us when we got there. He knew it well, he told us. We sat near the back door and watched everyone stepping on and off. Una decided that the conductor was ‘a fine thing.’ She put on lipstick and kept asking him where we nearly there. Eventually, he said it was our stop and we alighted.

All along the way, we had passed ordinary red brick houses. However, number 381 was not one of these. It was a huge, scary looking building, up a long driveway. Our sense of excitement died immediately, replaced by terror. We walked up and rang the bell.

The big heavy door opened widely and we could see inside, into a very spacious hall. I’ll never forget the shock of seeing many girls my age walking around, all very very pregnant. The only women we knew expecting babies were old women like our mothers, never girls our age. It was like seeing a class of fifth years all enormous.

Patricia cried when she met us. She too was very big, being almost due. She told us that the place wasn’t too bad and that she had made friends with some of the other girls. She talked in great detail about the forthcoming birth. Even though I was the second eldest of ten children I have never heard the likes discussed before and was horrified. We wished her well and fled.

On the bus back into town, we were speechless with shock. When we recovered we both swore that we would never, never have sex with any man until we were safely married – in case we ended up in that awful place. Perhaps that was the intention of sending us there in the first place – it definitely was the best contraceptive ever!

Patricia’s son was adopted afterward. I am glad to add that she married later and had more children. That’s all I know of her life.

[Duff Paddy]

The super covids are getting wind in their sails again Duff

The narrative is set. Every healthcare worker is “worked to the bone”. I can give you a dozen examples of healthcare workers who are pretty f**king far from worked to the bone but I’m a prick for daring to say it.

[Duff Paddy]

With testing and full PPE it can be managed. We can’t have a situation where a huge proportion of our frontline staff are sitting at home fit and we’ll just because they were pinged as a close contact. They need to be tested and back to work.

You just need one incident of it causing an infection in hospital and it'll be another controversy.

I don't particularly disagree with it, if they're being honest with their symptoms then it should be fine but even then when you're worked to the bone it's easy to miss the onset of illness.

Most of them aren’t worked to the bone. Only a very small percentage are even dealing with covid patients.

A here Duff what it's like for them at the moment you can't imagine even the one's not directly.
Have some young relations and they look gaunt and worn out at mid twenties.

that'd be all the house parties !

[Duff Paddy]

There are plenty of fathers who just abandoned their girlfriends to these homes.
One of my own buddies had to be nagged in to taking his pregnant girlfriend out of one of those homes.
The spineless little fúcker.

That’s fairly shocking. Always assumed it was the girl’s parents who took the decision.

[Leinster in London]

There are plenty of fathers who just abandoned their girlfriends to these homes.
One of my own buddies had to be nagged in to taking his pregnant girlfriend out of one of those homes.
The spineless little fúcker.

That’s fairly shocking. Always assumed it was the girl’s parents who took the decision.

The parents sent their kid in, but of course the "boyfriend" could remove her if he bought a ring (+possibly some other hoops).

[cfm93]

This is some good news, will make a huge difference to the area.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/com ... -1.4457313

[lorcanoworms]

There are plenty of fathers who just abandoned their girlfriends to these homes.
One of my own buddies had to be nagged in to taking his pregnant girlfriend out of one of those homes.
The spineless little fúcker.

That’s fairly shocking. Always assumed it was the girl’s parents who took the decision.

The parents sent their kid in, but of course the "boyfriend" could remove her if he bought a ring (+possibly some other hoops).

He bought a car during the spell she was there instead of getting her and his child started in life.
Which is why I never spoke to him again.

[Leinster in London]

There are plenty of fathers who just abandoned their girlfriends to these homes.
One of my own buddies had to be nagged in to taking his pregnant girlfriend out of one of those homes.
The spineless little fúcker.

That’s fairly shocking. Always assumed it was the girl’s parents who took the decision.

The parents sent their kid in, but of course the "boyfriend" could remove her if he bought a ring (+possibly some other hoops).

He bought a car during the spell she was there instead of getting her and his child started in life.
Which is why I never spoke to him again.

One of my mates said for a few years he's going to marry the first girl he got pregnant.
He did, and it did not work out too well. They separated less than a year later.

[lorcanoworms]

He hangs around with another friend of mine who tells me he is still with that girl he once abandoned and still chasing or trying to chase skirt at 70

[danthefan]

My aunt went off travelling in the late 70s and came back pregnant, could easily have ended up in one if not for my nan, who didn't give one single fudge what anyone thought about anything, despite being deeply religious herself.

[MunsterMan!!!!!]

3856 positive swabs, 16.35% positivity on 23,590 swabs.
- Wednesday, January 13th 2021

Uptick in positivity rate compared to yesterday.

[EverReady]

My aunt went off travelling in the late 70s and came back pregnant, could easily have ended up in one if not for my nan, who didn't give one single fudge what anyone thought about anything, despite being deeply religious herself.

She ended up pregnant in her late 70's!! Have you contacted Norris McWhirter?

[Blackrock Bullet]

3856 positive swabs, 16.35% positivity on 23,590 swabs.
- Wednesday, January 13th 2021

Uptick in positivity rate compared to yesterday.

Not significant in fairness, it will hover around that for a few days at a time. Will drop more slowly down. Conor Riocht reckons 4 weeks to get down to similar positivity that we had at the start of Lockdown 2.0! Hopefully it will be sooner though.

[Floppykid]

https://twitter.com/Antifa_VP/status/13 ... 7073103873

[Duff Paddy]

https://twitter.com/Antifa_VP/status/13 ... 7073103873

If it weren’t for you Floppy I’d be happily living in blissful ignorance that such idiocy was even possible, let alone being broadcast on social media. Thank fudge for twitter what a great place it is. I see he’s also a zero covid advocate. These guys

[redderneck]

My aunt went off travelling in the late 70s and came back pregnant, could easily have ended up in one if not for my nan, who didn't give one single fudge what anyone thought about anything, despite being deeply religious herself.

She ended up pregnant in her late 70's!! Have you contacted Norris McWhirter?

I be checking Wayne Rooneys google timeline.

[Duff Paddy]

My aunt went off travelling in the late 70s and came back pregnant, could easily have ended up in one if not for my nan, who didn't give one single fudge what anyone thought about anything, despite being deeply religious herself.

She ended up pregnant in her late 70's!! Have you contacted Norris McWhirter?

I be checking Wayne Rooneys google timeline.

and fatcat’s

[anonymous_joe]

The auld Mother and Baby Homes Report is not a pleasant read.

Very clear that Irish people knew what was happening and did absolutely nothing to help the women involved.

Stories of women being kicked out of their home after being impregnated by family members. What a shithole of a country.

If the UK did not legalise abortion we would still probably have the Homes.

This is what happened:
Points to note, the spell in the home was organised by the family, visits were allowed, only some families did not accept back their daughters after the adoption.

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/ot ... -baby-home

My friend Una had a cousin called Patricia who regularly visited their home. She was our age. As I spent half my teen years in Una’s house I often met Patricia. One day, in 1968, when we were 17 years old, there was much weeping and whispering going on in their house when I called. Una locked the two of us into the bathroom to tell me the BIG news. “Patricia’s expecting,” she said, dramatically. Well, we were shocked to the core. A girl our age had had sex with a man! (This was back in the dark ages.) What was she going to do?

Only those of us who were alive at the time in Ireland understand how it would have been impossible for 17-year-old Patricia to stay at home, in her good Catholic household, and be a ‘walking occasion of sin,’ giving a very bad example. Her baby would be ‘illegitimate’ and bring shame to her whole family.

Una’s mother swore me to secrecy. She explained to Una and me that Patricia would go to a home for unmarried mothers in Dublin. The nuns there would look after her and the baby would be adopted after birth. We found all this fascinating and returned to our boarding school pitying Patricia and wondering how she would be.

We were home again, during our Easter holidays, when the baby was almost due. Una’s mother announced that Una and I were to go up to Dublin, to the home for unmarried mothers, and visit Patricia on Easter Tuesday.

ADVERTISING


It was the most exciting thing we had ever heard. Both of us were bored stiff and longing for adventure. We had never been to Dublin on our own before. Throughout the Holy Week Ceremonies, we wondered – 'What we would wear?', 'Might there be "fine things" (handsome boys) on the train?', 'Would we wear lipstick?', 'How would we know where to get the bus?', 'How would we know where to get off the bus?', and 'What would we say to Patricia?' (My excuse for seeming so insensitive to poor Patricia’s situation is that we were 17 and had no way at the time of knowing any better.)

We set off, full of excitement – two pure country mugs, heading to Dublin. We found the right bus and immediately asked the bus conductor did he know where 381 Navan Road was and would he tell us when we got there. He knew it well, he told us. We sat near the back door and watched everyone stepping on and off. Una decided that the conductor was ‘a fine thing.’ She put on lipstick and kept asking him where we nearly there. Eventually, he said it was our stop and we alighted.

All along the way, we had passed ordinary red brick houses. However, number 381 was not one of these. It was a huge, scary looking building, up a long driveway. Our sense of excitement died immediately, replaced by terror. We walked up and rang the bell.

The big heavy door opened widely and we could see inside, into a very spacious hall. I’ll never forget the shock of seeing many girls my age walking around, all very very pregnant. The only women we knew expecting babies were old women like our mothers, never girls our age. It was like seeing a class of fifth years all enormous.

Patricia cried when she met us. She too was very big, being almost due. She told us that the place wasn’t too bad and that she had made friends with some of the other girls. She talked in great detail about the forthcoming birth. Even though I was the second eldest of ten children I have never heard the likes discussed before and was horrified. We wished her well and fled.

On the bus back into town, we were speechless with shock. When we recovered we both swore that we would never, never have sex with any man until we were safely married – in case we ended up in that awful place. Perhaps that was the intention of sending us there in the first place – it definitely was the best contraceptive ever!

Patricia’s son was adopted afterward. I am glad to add that she married later and had more children. That’s all I know of her life.

The report actually says that. They make the point that the availability of abortion led to an improvement of standards and treatment of the mothers to avoid them being able to go to England and avoid a life of stigma.

It's infuriating seeing so many people try and blame this on the church exclusively and pretend it wasn't Irish people abandoning their own daughters.

There's one particularly grim story in the report about a girl leaving a home and coming back two days later as her parents wouldn't allow her and the baby to come home. She'd slept in a field both nights.

[Blackrock Bullet]

https://twitter.com/Antifa_VP/status/13 ... 7073103873

The state of that profile

[Blackrock Bullet]

Was the INMO General Secretary asking why vaccinations didn't begin immediately once received or did she remain quiet?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... hospitals/

[camroc1]

Was the INMO General Secretary asking why vaccinations didn't begin immediately once received or did she remain quiet?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... hospitals/

Would somebody just send her a copy of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

[YOYO]

https://twitter.com/Antifa_VP/status/13 ... 7073103873

The state of that profile

Holy smokes.

[Gavin Duffy]

Was the INMO General Secretary asking why vaccinations didn't begin immediately once received or did she remain quiet?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... hospitals/

Wonder how many nurses are refusing the vaccine(s)? And how many are contracting covid 'in the community' - didn't the HSE previously state that was where the majority were being infected?

[Gavin Duffy]

No update on numbers vaccinated since the 7th January? That's shocking tbf.

[ticketlessinseattle]

and the bigger issue is that its actually not the front line staff but the management of departments, hospitals, functions etc that don't seem to have any inclination, incentive to create fiunctioning, efficient operations ; in fact the system seems to encourage the opposite

This isn't exclusive to the public sector though.
Look at any large organisation and you'll see the same thing but not to the same extent. The main difference is the private sector companies won't be unionised so it's a little bit easier to make changes.

EDIT: and what drives all the bloating and inefficiencies is the bane of efficiency - corporate governance. Once an auditor comes in and goes through your processes, they come up with ridiculous niggly issues that need to be ironed out and this leads to bloating.

in good companies they dont last long ;
anyone answering to an auditor that can't come up with how pointless some of the niggly points are shouldn't be in charge of any department; mitigating controls ; immaterial exposure, cost/benefit should be liberally sprinkled in a condescending retort to said auditor

[ticketlessinseattle]

No update on numbers vaccinated since the 7th January? That's shocking tbf.

it really is ; I've taken to the dark side ie twitter ; Stephen Donnelly saying 35k vaccinated as of Sunday - getting plenty of reasonable questions about targets and reporting thereof for this week and next etc

[camroc1]

3, 569 cases; 63 deaths.

[Nolanator]

3569, 63. "Majority of the latter from this month".

They're still unfortunates who died from Covid, but the messaging (or lack of context) behind some of the recent numbers is a bit annoying. Implies 63 people died of Covid yesterday.

[Nolanator]

Conor Riocht reckons that hospital numbers should peak around Saturday, if they follow the same patterns after cases start to drop as from the previous peaks.
Question is how long the ICU occupancy stays elevated. Even if there are minimal new admissions there, average stays are like 2-3 weeks, so it takes way longer for that to come down. We won't be loosening anything until that's down.

Doubt we'll have a full Paddy's Day, but by then the effect of vaccinations may start being felt and hospital numbers will generally stay down as the vulnerable aren't overly affect.

[Blackrock Bullet]

Conor Riocht reckons that hospital numbers should peak around Saturday, if they follow the same patterns after cases start to drop as from the previous peaks.
Question is how long the ICU occupancy stays elevated. Even if there are minimal new admissions there, average stays are like 2-3 weeks, so it takes way longer for that to come down. We won't be loosening anything until that's down.

Doubt we'll have a full Paddy's Day, but by then the effect of vaccinations may start being felt and hospital numbers will generally stay down as the vulnerable aren't overly affect.

Easter weekend realistically.

They aren’t going to take any chances. I had guessed between 1000-1500 deaths over 6 weeks, realistically looks like it’ll be closer to 1,500 going by the last two days. Many nursing homes are riddled again, of course it made no material difference leaving vaccines in the freezer for several days.

[EverReady]

BB in the hospital with one vial the randomness of the vaccine distribution was extraordinary when you consider the amount of time they had. They got a delivery on day X and if you were there you might have gotten the vaccine. Made no difference what grade, whether you worked part-time, what risk you might have regarding age. They just doled it out and the lads came in the next day and went ehhh WTF when is the next delivery.

[Blackrock Bullet]

BB in the hospital with one vial the randomness of the vaccine distribution was extraordinary when you consider the amount of time they had. They got a delivery on day X and if you were there you might have gotten the vaccine. Made no difference what grade, whether you worked part-time, what risk you might have regarding age. They just doled it out and the lads came in the next day and went ehhh WTF when is the next delivery.

They’re in no hurry, the public health bods simply see this as getting two doses to 3.5m and 10k looks small fry to them. I guess they don’t see the numbers who have died or will die from Covid to be high enough to justify an emergency.