Planet Rugby Forum

Gavin Duffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:16 pm Additional freedoms for the fully vaccinated, eh? https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/add ... 06879.html

Those of us at the back of the queue are not impressed.

Why would you take issue with that ? It makes sense to allow people return to some sort of normality once they’re not a threat to themselves or others and this policy encourages people to get their jab

Conspicuous wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:26 pm

Gavin Duffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:16 pm Additional freedoms for the fully vaccinated, eh? https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/add ... 06879.html

Those of us at the back of the queue are not impressed.

Why would you take issue with that ? It makes sense to allow people return to some sort of normality once they’re not a threat to themselves or others and this policy encourages people to get their jab

A. because the government decides who gets jabbed and when so the government gets to decide who the new untermensch are
B. vaccinated people can still transmit the virus as far as we know

I assume you've been vaccinated or will soon be vaccinated?

Gavin Duffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:30 pm

Conspicuous wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:26 pm

Gavin Duffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:16 pm Additional freedoms for the fully vaccinated, eh? https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/add ... 06879.html

Those of us at the back of the queue are not impressed.

Why would you take issue with that ? It makes sense to allow people return to some sort of normality once they’re not a threat to themselves or others and this policy encourages people to get their jab

A. because the government decides who gets jabbed and when so the government gets to decide who the new untermensch are
B. vaccinated people can still transmit the virus as far as we know

I assume you've been vaccinated or will soon be vaccinated?

Wrong assumption, I’m in my 40’s with no underlying health conditions so I’m well down the list. Just trying to
look at this rationally and it makes sense that people who have been vaccinated get some of their restrictions lifted

Point A is a bit heavy. The government have to prioritise certain people ahead of you and it’s based largely on age and medical reasons, not to oppress you . On point B I’m not sure , highly unlikely you can transmit the virus after vaccination afaik , just hasn’t been proven conclusively?

Copied over from the other thread, my views on vaccine passport:

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:49 pm I have a real problem with vaccine passports. Partly because I know someone who has gone batshit during covid and vaccine passports would push them over the edge but also because you end up with two tiers with people quite willing to be vaccinated but not eligible (either yet or ever) being left out. Are we all in this together or not?

By the time you get to everyone who is happy to be vaccinated, vaccinated, you will have enough herd immunity to 'carry' the unvaccinated. In theory anyway.

I completely get the argument from the other side though. It's a pity it'll probably have to happen in some form.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/cor ... 79066.html

Hmmmmm. Any prizes for guessing who might have tested positive?

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:13 pm https://m.independent.ie/world-news/cor ... 79066.html

Hmmmmm. Any prizes for guessing who might have tested positive?

Tits McGee

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:07 pm Copied over from the other thread, my views on vaccine passport:

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:49 pm I have a real problem with vaccine passports. Partly because I know someone who has gone batshit during covid and vaccine passports would push them over the edge but also because you end up with two tiers with people quite willing to be vaccinated but not eligible (either yet or ever) being left out. Are we all in this together or not?

By the time you get to everyone who is happy to be vaccinated, vaccinated, you will have enough herd immunity to 'carry' the unvaccinated. In theory anyway.

I completely get the argument from the other side though. It's a pity it'll probably have to happen in some form.

If they were serious about this it should be in since the start of vaccine otherwise by the time it's set up, most will be vaccinated

MunsterMan!!!!! wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:27 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:07 pm Copied over from the other thread, my views on vaccine passport:

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:49 pm I have a real problem with vaccine passports. Partly because I know someone who has gone batshit during covid and vaccine passports would push them over the edge but also because you end up with two tiers with people quite willing to be vaccinated but not eligible (either yet or ever) being left out. Are we all in this together or not?

By the time you get to everyone who is happy to be vaccinated, vaccinated, you will have enough herd immunity to 'carry' the unvaccinated. In theory anyway.

I completely get the argument from the other side though. It's a pity it'll probably have to happen in some form.

If they were serious about this it should be in since the start of vaccine otherwise by the time it's set up, most will be vaccinated

Nothing really to be concerned about then. In reality it will probably only apply to a relatively small number of people for a short space of time . It’s probably more a pr exercise show that the government are trying to lift restrictions where they can and a gentle nudge towards people who have reservations about taking the vaccine

Conor Riocht back online

Well, there’s a surprise.

*Takes cover off barbecue*

https://independent.ie/irish-news/calls ... 78494.html

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:37 pm Conor Riocht back online

Same handle?

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:54 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:37 pm Conor Riocht back online

Same handle?

Yep. Well username could have changed slightly but he still appeared on my feed without me having to search for him

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:55 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:54 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:37 pm Conor Riocht back online

Same handle?

Yep

Was thinking he might be doing that. Good stuff!

Saw your edit iarmhiman, looks like the same account. You've 30 days to ask twitter to undelete. Looked like he took a voluntary break and reinstated before it was too late.

I did not know that Ireland have an international touch rugby team.

“ Wrafter represented Ireland at touch rugby two years ago, but now struggles at times to carry their daughter Sofia (2) up the stairs without becoming breathless”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... 0?mode=amp

camroc1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:06 pm Top headlines on the BBCNI website;

'Sinister elements' getting younger people to attack PSNI

Portadown parade involving masked men investigated
Published1 hour ago

Londonderry: Children as young as 12 involved in disorder

Newtownabbey: Police attacked for second night in a row

Twelve officers injured in Londonderry disorder

Here you go
https://twitter.com/qnewsdesk/status/1 ... 54310?s=20
Any prose about setting suns for this mob?

NI has simply more than its fair share of layabout dickheads with nothing to do but riot
Why you would want anything to do with either community is beyond me.

Can someone get this Una Mullally piece on how she engages with wrong thought please.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una- ... -1.4528497

Winnie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:26 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:13 pm https://m.independent.ie/world-news/cor ... 79066.html

Hmmmmm. Any prizes for guessing who might have tested positive?

Tits McGee

Nah it was the other one, Chesty Le Roux

paddyor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:39 am Can someone get this Una Mullally piece on how she engages with wrong thought please.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una- ... -1.4528497

Now excuse me while I go set my computer on fire.


We are currently dealing with a huge public health issue in the form of the pandemic, and within that there are multiple other public health issues. From cancer treatment to maternity services, the disruption to our health system has been tremendous.

But there is also another public health concern in Ireland that has been growing steadily yet remains unaddressed, has been exacerbated by the pandemic, and is something about which many people seem to be at a complete loss as to how to make their loved ones better.

This burgeoning public health issue is the mental health crisis that falling down a rabbit-hole of conspiracy theories induces.

That many people in this country believe unhinged fantastical versions of the world is no laughing matter
More and more, I’m hearing from people whose friends, colleagues, acquaintances and family members are dealing with serious mental, emotional and relationship crises because of people being radicalised online, their thinking and critical capacities altered, and the huge impact this is having on friend groups and families.

In recent months, I’ve been developing a toolkit to help those who are reaching a point of crisis with loved ones who have fallen down the conspiracy rabbit-hole, working on an advice sheet with the assistance of people including Aoife Gallagher, an analyst at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, who specialises in disinformation, extremism and hate, and is one of the foremost experts on this issue in Ireland.

The recent anti-lockdown protests in Ireland yielded some excellent reporting from those covering the breadth of beliefs of those participating, but it has also yielded frustrating false equivalence, and quite irresponsibly, people laughing off or laughing at some of the more outrageous beliefs many protesters were espousing, particularly those that are QAnon-related or Q-adjacent.

That many people in this country genuinely believe completely unhinged fantastical versions of the world is no laughing matter. It is distressing for their loved ones and it is a public health issue.

Una Mullally: Many pubs are on their knees. Let communities buy them
Una Mullally: Fine Gael makes a clumsy grab for female voters
Una Mullally: Time to commemorate those who died in the pandemic
Political extremism
The spectrum of those who end up altering their thought patterns via the internet and emerge as conspiracy theorists is diverse. Although many people become radicalised into participating in political extremism and develop specific – often fascistic – political ideologies that embed themselves in existing faultlines in their thinking (such as racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, misogyny, and religious fundamentalism), falling for conspiracies that overtake one’s rational thoughts is different.

However, there is plenty of overlap between extremism and hate, and conspiracy. Indeed, far-right entities, for example, are only delighted to take advantage of those gravitating towards conspiracy, and prey on their fears for their own nefarious political desires.

Social media platforms – especially Facebook – and entities such as YouTube create a radicalisation pipeline that works quickly and often privately. Algorithms are designed to hold your attention, and inevitably nudge you towards more extreme content in order to do so.

Many who gravitate towards conspiracy value their own intelligence, consider themselves 'smart' and therefore they couldn’t possibly be 'duped'
Some people find a new community in conspiracy, and can double down when others express alarm about their thinking patterns, which has a pulling-up-the-drawbridge effect, and sees them gravitate further towards those who legitimise the conspiracy theories and affirm their newly embedded beliefs.

So what can you do if you’re in this situation and a loved one seems to have changed, is espousing conspiracy theories, is lashing out at those close to them, is gravitating towards bizarre and false ideas, and developing worrying beliefs? Ordinarily, our impulse is to debate and to engage on a rational level. Yet when it comes to conspiracy, the rules do not apply, and that includes the tactics for countering it.

Correlation with depression
First up, keep the channels of communication open, no matter how testing that is. Don’t cut people out, because they may retreat further towards disinformation. Don’t get into arguments or “debate”. Don’t try to counter with communication such as “but that’s completely ridiculous”. Instead, ask questions, listen to their responses, and observe what their sources of information are.

Empathise and understand. Gravitating towards conspiracy has some correlations with depression. It can feel like a comfortable space to languish in, but pretty soon control is lost and reality breaks. There may have been a trigger that led to their current state: financial trauma, unaddressed personal trauma, heightened stress, isolation, job loss, relationship breakdown, loss of purpose, a desire to feel special, excessive time spent online.

Many people who gravitate towards conspiracy value their own intelligence, consider themselves “smart” and therefore they couldn’t possibly be “duped”. Many feel like they are on an almost spiritual mission to expose “the truth”.

People who believe conspiracy or disinformation often place a lot of emphasis on “research” and confuse “information” with that information being real. Arguing this point can often entrench people’s positions, leading to reactions such as “you would say that, wouldn’t you?”.

Conspiracy theorists also tend to believe that they have a higher level of critical thinking, but research has shown that conspiracy thinking is associated with lower levels of critical thinking.

Empathy is always the first starting point, even when people have become “cold” or “not themselves”. You don’t have to talk about the conspiracies someone is espousing, but should talk about the circumstances of their lives that may have them to this point.

Many people are trying to make sense of a chaotic world and form narratives that frame and justify that chaos. We cannot laugh off this public health issue, or simply hope it will go away. It’s real, it’s serious, and it needs to be addressed holistically.

Flametop wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:53 pm Well, there’s a surprise.

*Takes cover off barbecue*

https://independent.ie/irish-news/calls ... 78494.html

Staines was on the radio the other day saying that covid isn’t seasonal. He was contradicted by a scientist Paul Moynagh who said that all other coronaviruses are seasonal.

We have a situation where zero coviders and NPHET are ignoring things that don’t suit their bias towards perpetual lockdown. Nolan’s model was the same - it could not have been more wrong over the past week but we’re still using this unpublished model as the basis for shutting down the entire country.

What basis to NPHET have to say no meeting up outdoors? What is their basis for saying no back garden family visits? They are not taking an evidence based approach and that has resulted in a lockdown that is far longer than any other country in Europe.

EverReady wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:27 am Una 'I am developing a toolkit' and proceeds to give well established and known pointers on how to deal
with it. No massive ego there. So.what she is saying is there is a total mistrust of the mainstream due to misinformation from the extremities like say Sinn Fein. Who peddles this shit Una. Hmmmmm. If anybody ever asked what is gaslighting just send them that article

Waters let slip one night on the late late that IT journalist’s are rated based on their social media interactions - Una just has to keep on writing this nonsense and the people will react

I liked it. Very very boring and very far fetched. My kind of article

This shit from the teachers is un-f**king-believable. 20 somethings putting out some bollocks video of why they should get the vaccine before people in their mid to late 60s.

danthefan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:48 am This shit from the teachers is un-f**king-believable. 20 somethings putting out some bollocks video of why they should get the vaccine before people in their mid to late 60s.

Shameless self-serving queue jumpers. Media should be roasting them at every turn

EverReady wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:54 am People are dicks. That's the main thing covid has thought us. We are all somewhere on the total dicks spectrum

I am a total dick. But the teachers make me look like a needle-dicked chinaman in comparison

EverReady wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:59 am

HighKingLeinster wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:58 am

EverReady wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:54 am People are dicks. That's the main thing covid has thought us. We are all somewhere on the total dicks spectrum

I am a total dick. But the teachers make me look like a needle-dicked chinaman in comparison

Oh agreed. The teachers unions are some of if not the worst in the country.

Would love if the unions forced a vote and then the members rejected it. Wont happen though as far too many older "women and children and teachers first" types in their ranks

My take on it is that they don’t give a Fûck but are as usual not wasting a good crisis.

They know they won’t get bumped up the queue ahead of auntie Vera so they can then “justify” why they can keep “working” from home.

It’s nothing that 4 more months off or a 30% play rise wouldn’t delay for a little longer.

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:00 am

Flametop wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:53 pm Well, there’s a surprise.

*Takes cover off barbecue*

https://independent.ie/irish-news/calls ... 78494.html

Staines was on the radio the other day saying that covid isn’t seasonal. He was contradicted by a scientist Paul Moynagh who said that all other coronaviruses are seasonal.

We have a situation where zero coviders and NPHET are ignoring things that don’t suit their bias towards perpetual lockdown. Nolan’s model was the same - it could not have been more wrong over the past week but we’re still using this unpublished model as the basis for shutting down the entire country.

What basis to NPHET have to say no meeting up outdoors? What is their basis for saying no back garden family visits? They are not taking an evidence based approach and that has resulted in a lockdown that is far longer than any other country in Europe.

They will say it is seasonal in a couple of months when they are hankering to keep up restrictions on travel and other areas.

Good one from Scally this morning on newstalk this morning:

"The next 6 months are CRUCIAL".

Winnie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:56 am

camroc1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:06 pm Top headlines on the BBCNI website;

'Sinister elements' getting younger people to attack PSNI

Portadown parade involving masked men investigated
Published1 hour ago

Londonderry: Children as young as 12 involved in disorder

Newtownabbey: Police attacked for second night in a row

Twelve officers injured in Londonderry disorder

Here you go
https://twitter.com/qnewsdesk/status/1 ... 54310?s=20
Any prose about setting suns for this mob?

NI has simply more than its fair share of layabout dickheads with nothing to do but riot
Why you would want anything to do with either community is beyond me.

They are scumbags, but their leaders, leaders of illegal terrorist organisations mind you, are not having tea and biscuits with the first minister of NI, over when and where to riot,(what was it they called it - to "discuss their shared concerns over Brexit".

Do you notice the slight difference there.

That's because the Deputy First Minister IS a Provo

normilet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:13 am Good one from Scally this morning on newstalk this morning:

"The next 6 months are CRUCIAL".

Have they learned nothing?

normilet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:13 am Good one from Scally this morning on newstalk this morning:

"The next 6 months are CRUCIAL".

I heard that. I didn’t realise that Scally was just an eejit before this pandemic. His cervical cancer report makes more sense now.

Mullet 2 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:27 am That's because the Deputy First Minister IS a Provo

This is the bit that Cammy struggles with

feckwanker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:31 am

normilet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:13 am Good one from Scally this morning on newstalk this morning:

"The next 6 months are CRUCIAL".

Have they learned nothing?

It was the fact that he almost screamed out the word "crucial" that made me double take for a moment, was that a not so subtle bit of trolling or is he just genuinely that tone deaf.

Flametop wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:04 am They know they won’t get bumped up the queue ahead of auntie Vera so they can then “justify” why they can keep “working” from home.

Eh? They're not working from home any more.
There's only 7 weeks left after term resumes next Monday. Doesn't matter what order people are vaccinated in, teachers will be done before next academmic year.

danthefan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:48 am This shit from the teachers is un-f**king-believable. 20 somethings putting out some bollocks video of why they should get the vaccine before people in their mid to late 60s.

Yeah not a good look. Maybe they're going for the full blown pro-wrestling style villain approach.

One of the more ridiculous aspects is that the ASTI have said they don't want industrial action to disrupt the leaving cert so it would take place in the new school year when presumably everyone who wants a vaccine would have a vaccine.

We did discuss this on here back in Jan/Feb (the most recent time they were threating to strike etc), this wont stop happening until you jab them all.

It's sh*tty, it's taking a shot from someone who's probably more at risk etc, but just get it done and we can stop f*cking talking about it, much as it irritates me to give in to demands like that.

Edit: there's 70 odd thousands teachers in Ireland (I think), could knock them out in a week or less.

Interesting update on excess mortality here https://web.actuaries.ie/excess-mortality-blog-8

normilet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:58 am We did discuss this on here back in Jan/Feb (the most recent time they were threating to strike etc), this wont stop happening until you jab them all.

It's sh*tty, it's taking a shot from someone who's probably more at risk etc, but just get it done and we can stop f*cking talking about it, much as it irritates me to give in to demands like that.

Edit: there's 70 odd thousands teachers in Ireland (I think), could knock them out in a week or less.

Then when the Police threaten action to get jabs or some other group of workers
You can’t back down to threats in a functional society